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Bo_Nidle
09-13-2007, 10:48 AM
I'm a big fan of the History Channels series "Dogfights". I haven't seen the second series in the UK but found the episode about the P-47 Thunderbolt on YouTube and very good it is too! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omO5VXOBZ80&mode=related&search=
(Its divided into 5 parts)

One part details a dramatic air battle involving George Sutcliffe of the 368thFg 9th Air Force in which he and his 3 fellow pilots were attacked by 40 109's. It holds a personal connection for me in that I skinned George Sutcliffe's P-47D Razorback at the request of his niece and her husband and I also provided illustrations for Tim Grace's book on the 368thFg called "Second to none":

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/bookcover.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/illustrations.jpg

This is an excellent book and tremendous value for money.
You can order it from here: http://www.368thfightergroup.com/
(By the way I did the illustrations with permission from Oleg and UbiSoft and 1cmaddox games for free out of respect for the pilots and love of the subject matter. I don't get any royalties so its not a "plug for me!)

You can download the skin for George's P-47D-22 "Junior" at www.flying-legends.net (http://www.flying-legends.net)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/Junior.jpg

I also did this depiction of the dogfight

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/Steadfast.jpg

As you may know I'm a bit of a Jug fan! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

It may not be perfect but for the subject matter I cannot think of any other program that comes remotely close to "Dogfights" for being so informative and dramatic at the same time. I have series one in a boxed set (got it off www.amazon.co.uk (http://www.amazon.co.uk) for less than 20...bargain! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Only drawback is you will need a multi-region DVD player or get a hack off the net to unlock all the regions. Very easy and normally done through the remote control)

It certainly inspires me to take to the virtual skies each time I watch it.

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-13-2007, 11:04 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

triad773
09-13-2007, 11:45 AM
Excellent video(s) Bo!

Thanks- added to my collection http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BRASSTURTLE
09-13-2007, 04:00 PM
Bo, I started reading that book in June, just before we got a puppy. I hope to finish it later this year.
Your skins are excellent & add a great deal to the book. As a fellow Jug fan, to read about the exploits of this magnificent beast & those who took her into combat is quite joy for me.
I have read a couple other books by or about Jug units or pilots, and this one is superior to most if not all.

The fact that my first & only flight I took off from the same airport where 6000 Jugs first took to the air certainly helps my obsession.

The book is well written & I would recommend it to all.
BUY THIS BOOK!!!

BillyTheKid_22
09-13-2007, 04:09 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gifCOOL!!!

DKoor
09-13-2007, 04:10 PM
Skins are teh shueet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
09-13-2007, 04:17 PM
It certainly inspires me to take to the virtual skies each time I watch it.

It certainly does. Same way you feel after watching Rocky. Your ready to fight somebody. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Xiolablu3
09-13-2007, 06:37 PM
Great post, thanks!

I too love the show, one of the best of its kind on the History channel.

Sorry about this but I ALWAYS seem to have some beef with the episodes, however. I am sure I will get slated for having a go again, but I feel I have too as they NEED to stop doing things like this purely to hype up their own side...

'The Thunderbolt had 8x.50 calibre machine guns, that was the heaviest amrament of any WW2 fighter of the war'

Hmmm, and theres me thinking that 2x.50 cals and 4x20mm of the FW190 was much more powerful? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The Fw190 could even have 2x30mm, 2x20mm and 2x.50 cal. Far, far more powerful than 8x.50 cals.

I would even argue that the 4 cannon Spitfire, Mustang, Hurricane or the Typhoon/Tempest had heavier armament.

WHy do they feel the need to put in these silly 'morale boosters' in every episode? They should have changed it to 'heaviest armament of any AMERICAN fighter of WW2'

I wish they would stop making these silly comments...but I still love the show http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

horseback
09-13-2007, 09:01 PM
Xio, they probably got their info from the USAF, which regularly acknowleges no other air force's existance except those providing targets for the USAF.

Just ask 'em who America's third ranking ace of WWII is. I guarantee that they won't tell you that it was Navy Commander Dave McCampbell.

On the other hand, I'd point out that the LW's 13mm 'fifty' was not in the same class as the Browning M2, and that as a practical matter, eight M2s were nothing to sneeze at if you were flying a 109 or 190.

cheers

horseback

Skycat_2
09-13-2007, 11:30 PM
I just watched Part One and to me it sounded like the expert said it was "as heavily armed" as any fighter in WWII. I realize this phrasing is still open for conjecture but I took it to mean that the P-47 wasn't hopelessly outclassed by fighters armed with cannons.

Xiolablu3
09-14-2007, 01:41 AM
Ahhh apologies if I misheard what he said then. I will watch it again later.

Just a point abou thte FW190 attacking at the start, I got the impreession, from the events, that the German pilot was trying to make the US pilot bail out, and was wondering why he didnt. What do you guys think?

I find it hard to believe that he was out of all types of ammunition, even machine guns. The FW190 has a massive supply of machine gun ammo.

Maybe he survived the war and explained his actions? I forget his name now...

I just think that he could not know that the US pilots canopy was jammed, and IMO if he had really wanted to 'blast him ou tof the sky' he could have done it. In the program we see him making short bursts at the P47, then pulling alongside and making hand signals...

It would be nice to find the German pilots account of all this...

fordfan25
09-14-2007, 11:54 AM
watched that video. wish we had P47s like that in the game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Bremspropeller
09-14-2007, 12:03 PM
The pilot is said to have been Egon Mayer of JG 2, who was himself shot down and killed by Thunderbolts on March 2nd '44.

Here's a pic of him:
http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/mayer.jpg

I'm quite sure he wanted to signal Johnson to bail. Otherwise he would not have pulled alongside to "evaluate the damage". He would have blasted his ammo into this a/c untill it fell.
Mayer was no greenhorn at this time - he really knew how to kill an a/c at point-blank range.

Doolittle81
09-14-2007, 12:17 PM
Go to <span class="ev_code_Red">Flight Sim Machinima Movies </span> (http://flightsimmachinima.montydan.com/) (see 2007 Page list) and watch the wonderful IL2 machinima movie "Not My Time to Die" by Mystic Puma . It actually tells a better and more comprehensive version of the story than that presented in the "Dogfights" TV show, and uses the precise words/recollections of the P47 pilot, Johnson.

R_Target
09-14-2007, 04:53 PM
Skins look great in the book. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

heywooood
09-14-2007, 05:13 PM
+1

I would say the same...nicely done Bo http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

carguy_
09-14-2007, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
On the other hand, I'd point out that the LW's 13mm 'fifty' was not in the same class as the Browning M2, and that as a practical matter, eight M2s were nothing to sneeze at if you were flying a 109 or 190.


Well, one can only wonder how it would have been if those Thunderbolts were armed with Berezin`s UBs.

crucislancer
09-14-2007, 05:22 PM
That's really awesome, Bo_Nidle! I'll be sure to order the book when I have some free funds. That episode of Dogfights was one of my favorites, as I've always been a big fan of the "Jug".

Bo_Nidle
09-14-2007, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
The pilot is said to have been Egon Mayer of JG 2, who was himself shot down and killed by Thunderbolts on March 2nd '44.

Here's a pic of him:
http://www.bergstrombooks.elknet.pl/mayer.jpg

I'm quite sure he wanted to signal Johnson to bail. Otherwise he would not have pulled alongside to "evaluate the damage". He would have blasted his ammo into this a/c untill it fell.
Mayer was no greenhorn at this time - he really knew how to kill an a/c at point-blank range.

I got the impression he was signalling for Johnson to bail out too. It makes sense when coupled with the way he shot the Tbolt up and then pulled alongside twice.

There is a great account of such respectful chivalry in the book "Second to none". A 368thFg pilot named Carlos "Tote" Talbott lead a flight of 12 P-47's to attack a German armoured column. Following the attack they were still down at around 8000feet when they were confronted with around 30 to 40 Me109's above then at around 20,000 feet. Low on fuel and ammo Talbott climbed to attack them losing his wingman to a diving 109. The 109's had formed two counter rotating lufbery circles and 20 to 25 broke off and dived down at him. He was now at 15000feet and alone but charged into the 109's regardless. In the ensuing fight he shot down two 109's which were confirmed by soldiers of the 3rd Armoured Division watching from the ground. He was then hit by four 109's which shot him down. He bailed out. As he was drifting down he saw the 4 109's in line astern formation circling close-by. To his amazement each Luftwaffe pilot saluted him in turn before flying away. He landed in the middle of the city of Verviers in Belgium. He had shrapnel wounds but these were quickly patched up and he returned to duty the following day.The remainder of his flight got safely back to their base and were credited with 11 enemy aircraft shot down.
Talbot was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross for his actions (The DSC is only surpassed by the Medal of Honor): The citation read in part "For extraordinary heroism in action against the enemy while furnishing direct support for ground units advancing towards the German border, Captain Talbott single handedly attacked the enemy formation nullifying their attempt to reinforce the main fighter attack." Talbott was also awarded the Purple Heart.

The book contains a far more detailed account

Whilst doing my illustrations for the book I also did some depictions of the incident for the man himself. Here's two of them. The P-47 depicts the actual aircraft he flew:
http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/Thebestdefence5.jpg

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b194/BoNidle/Thebestdefence9.jpg

I owe a lot to this great flight sim for bringing me into contact with some incredible people. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif