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View Full Version : 9 ot of 10 times you lose control when hit by A.I.!



XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 02:52 PM
I have huge amount of flying hours on both IL2 and FB fliyng ofline campaigns and zillions of quick missions.
And I am a Combatsimmer from the first generation.

In IL2 beeing shot down by A.I. fighters happend only when i pulled realy dumb stunts in front of the A.I. a/c.
If it ended bad it was stalling to close to the ground to recover (I like fighting on treetop level) or beeing shot down by Bomber gunners.
in FB the A.I. has improved big time, it is more of a chalenge wich i apriciate a lot but the down side has expanded sadly at the same time!
I conclude that 9 out of ten thimes as soon as the A.I. hits your a/c you lose control over some surface if it is rudder control nothing hapens! somethimes it seems that losing control over my expensive old thrustmaster 'Elite'pedals my performance only improves in dogfights! (At ground attack missions I really need them)
but sadly it is losing your elavator control most of the time and if your lucky and high enough you can bail out!

Losing control because of control wires cut I never heard of that in my library of WWII veteran pilots accounts.
Somebody suggested it possible when the aircraft is hit by explosive rounds but it happens all the thime when my a/c is hit by P-40's with their .50's (That do make holes in my a/c as if hit by 20mm explosive rounds!)
Now on the other hand if a losing my well aimed burst at the A.I. their control cables seem to withstand my 20mm or 30mm without a problem!

For me it kills the fun that as soon as the player a/c is hit he has to baill out because the engine quits (5 out of ten times especially when hit by Flak)or he lost elavator or ailleron control.

Make it happen 1 out of ten times each control imput and leave the possibillity of fighters killing your engine except not as much by Flak!

And this sim will be more histric and much more fun!

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 02:52 PM
I have huge amount of flying hours on both IL2 and FB fliyng ofline campaigns and zillions of quick missions.
And I am a Combatsimmer from the first generation.

In IL2 beeing shot down by A.I. fighters happend only when i pulled realy dumb stunts in front of the A.I. a/c.
If it ended bad it was stalling to close to the ground to recover (I like fighting on treetop level) or beeing shot down by Bomber gunners.
in FB the A.I. has improved big time, it is more of a chalenge wich i apriciate a lot but the down side has expanded sadly at the same time!
I conclude that 9 out of ten thimes as soon as the A.I. hits your a/c you lose control over some surface if it is rudder control nothing hapens! somethimes it seems that losing control over my expensive old thrustmaster 'Elite'pedals my performance only improves in dogfights! (At ground attack missions I really need them)
but sadly it is losing your elavator control most of the time and if your lucky and high enough you can bail out!

Losing control because of control wires cut I never heard of that in my library of WWII veteran pilots accounts.
Somebody suggested it possible when the aircraft is hit by explosive rounds but it happens all the thime when my a/c is hit by P-40's with their .50's (That do make holes in my a/c as if hit by 20mm explosive rounds!)
Now on the other hand if a losing my well aimed burst at the A.I. their control cables seem to withstand my 20mm or 30mm without a problem!

For me it kills the fun that as soon as the player a/c is hit he has to baill out because the engine quits (5 out of ten times especially when hit by Flak)or he lost elavator or ailleron control.

Make it happen 1 out of ten times each control imput and leave the possibillity of fighters killing your engine except not as much by Flak!

And this sim will be more histric and much more fun!

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 02:53 PM
I meant Historic in stead of histeric!
Kees.

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 07:20 PM
Totally true! i havenāĀ“t ever read that plane had lost controll cables ,and i have read allso a lot of books written by ww2 pilots .Some of them write that they had a huge holes in wing(1m/3foot)or fuselage but never a control cables were destroyed,makes you wonder....

Maybe the patch fixes it http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



or maybe not

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 08:39 PM
Yep for being complete idiots the AI shoot extremely well. And is the TB one of Oleg's jokes? It takes forever to shoot one down in a DF game but you get wasted in SP game. And how bout those gunners on the PE-8? Man I hate them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


S~

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 08:49 PM
The control cable destruction seems to be buggy.

In some airplanes it happens constantly. For example, in 109 or Hurricane you will rarely take more than 3 light MG hits without losing some kind of control.

Other aircraft, like LAGG-3 and FW-190, are completely immune to control destruction. I've run a few QMBs vs TB-3s, getting hit dozens of times, and not suffered a single failure on either plane.

The feature was probably unfinished at time of realease, and will be much different in the patch. Hopefully the frequency of control failure will be more realistic and uniform among the planes.





Message Edited on 06/28/0301:50PM by StG77_Fennec

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 09:43 PM
Glad to hear I am not the only one who thinks this nonrealistic and frustrating!

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 09:47 PM
Nikodemus-LH wrote:
- Totally true! i havenāĀ“t ever read that plane had
- lost controll cables ,and i have read allso a lot of
- books written by ww2 pilots .Some of them write that
- they had a huge holes in wing(1m/3foot)or fuselage
- but never a control cables were destroyed,makes you
- wonder....
-
- Maybe the patch fixes it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-
-
- or maybe not
-
-



True, but then again, I don't think too many pilots would've been able to write reports after they lost all control cables...

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XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 09:48 PM
No one says it doesn't happen, just not to the frequency that it does in certain planes in FB.



Message Edited on 06/28/0302:48PM by StG77_Fennec

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 10:27 PM
Nikodemus-LH wrote:
- Totally true! i havenāĀ“t ever read that plane had
- lost controll cables ,and i have read allso a lot of
- books written by ww2 pilots .Some of them write that
- they had a huge holes in wing(1m/3foot)or fuselage
- but never a control cables were destroyed,makes you
- wonder....
-
- Maybe the patch fixes it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-
-
- or maybe not
-
-

You need to wonder, and think about, may be the reson is that when losing the controls of the plane, the pilot would mostly die or been captured? or may be they didnt ever know what was wrong with the plane, the only think they need to know was, when it was time to hit it

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

XyZspineZyX
06-28-2003, 10:29 PM
And besides, i did have that problem alot, before, till i learn to keep always moving and dont slow down begine a bomber, doing that is you are easy meat, as simple as that, have u ever seen planes atacking bomber formations? they would pass by like if the devil was going afther them... tray that, and keep away from the range of the gunners, gl

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 12:24 PM
Aztek I was refering to the A.I. fighters shooting Player Fighter a/c and hitting control cables to often.
Bomber gunners is a diffrent overmodeled isue.

For the theory of the lack of knowledge if indeed a a/c went down because of cut cables i can only say I have read a lot of accounts from pilots that chrashed and survived or bailed out and again never because some sniper shot trough control cables..C'omonn! think about it if even the Stuka was not able to tackle the Huge radio/radar antena- masts during the Battle of Britain using heavy bombs with lots of srapnel because of the open construction of the antena mast that looked something like highvoltage mast, how can you beliefe a single bullet or even a cannon shell cuting through a metal wire that isn't even tensioned like a pianowire!
I can asure you each projectile 'if' it hits these loosly conected control wire's it will only push them out of their path and the exlposive round will not detonate on such surface.

Then again I am not saying no a/c was lost because of cut cables!
I am simply frustrated at the to often times the A.I. succeed at it!
Show me a Human Player that is able to do the same!

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 04:57 PM
well the same would apray to it, for some reason i no longer have that problem

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 05:02 PM
I would rather like lose controls than a wing or being PLed if you ask me.


But yeah,not very historic/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"degustibus non disputandum"

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<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 09:09 PM
Have to agree that the AI scores way to many elevator or aileron control cable hits for my taste in certain planes. I like the added dimension, but control cable hits are the thing most likely to take me out of a fight so I see this as overdone. What really puzzles me on the aileron hits is why both ailerons quit working...I can see losing one. Elevators use a common cable I suppose.

By the way, it is possible to land without elevators (in the sim) but it is pretty tough. You have to use a combination of roll, rudder, and engine speed to do it and you will likely come in pretty hot. I've not experimented with it much, but I have managed to bring the plane down in a crash landing. I've even done some fighting this way after my elevator control was hit...shooting down a fleeing plane. No, these are not things one would try in real life.

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 09:49 PM
had any WWII plane double control cables?

I think if failures would have been such common, they would have doubled at least the elevator cables.

quiet_man

XyZspineZyX
06-29-2003, 11:17 PM
And iy has happened. I read about one Russian ace in WW2
(maybe Kozedub) who RTB'd very late after a winter mission. was seen bobbing up and down in a very erratic fashion as he approached the runway and managed to crash land on the runway and walk away from what was left of his plane.

It turned out he had lost his elevator controls and just used the throttle/airspeed to control altitude. I've heard a similar story about an air-liner in the USA where the pilot managed to land after losing the elevators.
I think the plane ended up upside down though and people died.

McN
- By the way, it is possible to land without elevators
- (in the sim) but it is pretty tough. You have to
- use a combination of roll, rudder, and engine speed
- to do it and you will likely come in pretty hot.
- I've not experimented with it much, but I have
- managed to bring the plane down in a crash landing.
- I've even done some fighting this way after my
- elevator control was hit...shooting down a fleeing
- plane. No, these are not things one would try in
- real life.
-
-

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 01:05 AM
maybe the control strings are made so big and thick in DM in FB.

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 01:20 AM
I believe a big reason qhy the control cables are outside of the fuselage is for not getting hit, but the elevator cables(ou rudder, dunno) could be taken from inside out(i mean weakening the place where they are held, in the elevator or rudder) and a big pull would take them off. But i don't believe that with a bullet you could rip off a cable like that

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 04:39 AM
Perhaps this loss of control is modeling damage to the rudder, elevator, ailerons, not necessarily damage only to include the cables.

I dont think all the damage model matches 1 to 1 with the 3d image modeling of damage.


Widgeon

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 06:10 AM
mcnalu wrote:
- I've heard a similar story about an air-liner in the
- USA where the pilot managed to land after losing the
- elevators.
- I think the plane ended up upside down though and
- people died.

I believe you are referring to the Sioux City crash. It was a much worse situation. They had only engines to work with as they had catastrophic hydraulic failure as the result of the #2 engine disintegrating and destroying the hydraulic system. They had no ailerons, elevators, rudder, or even flaps, or spoilers. All they had were two remaining engines with which to adjust all parameters. They did an admirable job of bringing the plane down and with a bit more luck there might have been no casualties, instead it winged over and killed a number of folks. In the aftermath, a control program has been developed that can land an aircraft safely in such a situation.

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2003, 06:52 AM
"True, but then again, I don't think too many pilots would've been able to write reports after they lost all control cables..."

The same thing came to my mind but many pilots survived even when their engine/wing was blown off, and i think that losing elevator/aileron is not that fatal.

its pretty ridicilous that 1 MG round in wing can destroy all elevators .