PDA

View Full Version : Does Anyone have a Type 99 Japanese Rifle?



Scharnhorst1943
08-09-2006, 04:04 PM
I was just wondering, does anyone own one, and how difficult is it to get ammunition for? I have a little collection, and I would like to get one, but I want to make sure I can still get ammo for it as well. Additionally, to those who own or have shot other WWII rifles, how does it compare to say, the M44 or M91 or even Mauser or M1 Garand?

Chuck_Older
08-09-2006, 04:32 PM
I was shooting an M1 Garand (made in '43) and a 1903 Springfield just the other day...but that's the extent of my experience with shooting WWII (and WWI) rifles

I really recommend the Garand. It's a very honest machine. So's the 1903, but the Garand strikes me as being overall more robust

Ernst_Rohr
08-09-2006, 05:06 PM
First off, before you shoot it CHECK THE DATE!! Late war Type 99s had very poor heat treatment, and may be unsafe to shoot!

Prewar rifles, and rifles up to 1942 are generally safe, 43 to 45 rifles need to be inspected carefully, the later in the war, the worse they get.

Late war rifles are usually easily spotted due to the the fixed sights, as opposed to the prewar/eary adjustable sights.

The 7.7mm round is pretty robust, while not uncomfortable in the standard rifle lengths, its can be quite sharp in the carbine. NOTE: another good thing to check on the 99 is the stock, if its a single piece, your ok, if it looks like the buttstock is a combine two piece unit, you may notice some issues with the stock not settling right. Two piece buttstocks are usually only found on late war rifles, but some early war guns that have been restocked occasionally have this as well.

The biggest deal as far as shooting it goes, is to check the value of the rifle, assuming everything else checks out.

An original, all serial numbers matching Type 99 with the Chrysanthemum crest still inact is a rare find. Even more so if they sliding bolt cover, monopod, and cleaning rod are still there. If you have one like that DONT shoot it! Its a real collectors piece.

Otherwise, if your going to shoot the 99, you need to seriously consider reloading. The 7.7mm round is NOT common, and while you can find modern ammo for it (Norma and Old West Scrounger) it tends to be very expensive to shoot on a round for round cost.

As far as performance, the 99 is a respectable shooter. The prewar guns being noticable better than the later war. Recoil is noticable, and comparable to a K98 or M91, its a full power battle rifle round. While not the most accurate battle rifle, its not bad, and a good example is a heck of a lot more accurate than most out of the box modern hunting rifles.

In short, the 99 can be a nice collectable, definately is slightly expensive to feed, and absolutely should have a good going over before its fired!

Esel1964
08-09-2006, 07:00 PM
I've got a Type 39(Chrysanthemum and dust cover intact),and if I wanted to shoot it(which I don't) it would be basically over a dollar a round.-not cheap,granted it's a different caliber.
The '03 Springfield is one of the finest service rifles ever issued for accuracy,they're still used in high power competition at Camp Perry.
Mausers are also high up on the list,especially German ones.I've got several Mauser variants(Spanish,Turk,Czech,Yugo) and all are reliable,fairly accurate,cheap and fun to shoot.

Mosin-Nagants are fun,reliable,cheap shooters,I've got a couple of variants and enjoy them.

One of my favorites for highly accurate,affordable plinking is the Swiss K 31,most I've seen imported are in good shape too.

But for alot of plinking fun in a small package,consider an M-1 carbine.That's what I grab when some cans need a good thrashing.Guarenteed to put a smile on your face.Just do some research first,as many on the market have seen better days.

Scharnhorst1943
08-10-2006, 01:46 AM
Thanks guys. The info on the Type 99 really helps. I have a little collection of my own. So far I have a Mosin Nagant M91/30, a M42 Mauser and a M48 Mauser as well as an English No.4 Enfield .303. I am dying to get my hands on a M1 Garand, but the funds are not quite sufficient just yet to blow $500 - $1000 on a gun. Especially with gas at $3 a gallon.

Anyway, On my ultimate wishlist are the Garand, the 1903 springfield, a Mosin M44, an SKS, Type 99 Jap, as well as a K98 Mauser.

Ernst_Rohr: What would it cost for me to get the reloading dies for the Type 99? Would I have to get them special ordered from Japan? Would I also have to get the ammo from Japan too?

Chuck_Older
08-10-2006, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
Thanks guys. The info on the Type 99 really helps. I have a little collection of my own. So far I have a Mosin Nagant M91/30, a M42 Mauser and a M48 Mauser as well as an English No.4 Enfield .303. I am dying to get my hands on a M1 Garand, but the funds are not quite sufficient just yet to blow $500 - $1000 on a gun. Especially with gas at $3 a gallon.

Anyway, On my ultimate wishlist are the Garand, the 1903 springfield, a Mosin M44, an SKS, Type 99 Jap, as well as a K98 Mauser.

Ernst_Rohr: What would it cost for me to get the reloading dies for the Type 99? Would I have to get them special ordered from Japan? Would I also have to get the ammo from Japan too?

Are you in the US? If so, check out the Civilian Marksmanship Program. My Dad got his just-better-than service grade Garand a few months ago. Stock is slightly mismatched and has some scars, but this is how you'd pretty much get one in WWII I should think. Plus all the numbers are proper for a WWII service rifle, according to the Garand expert at the club. Mechanically no troubles except the gas tube will need re-tightening after every day of shooting, but since you're cleaning it anyway...Some of them still have cleaning kits in the butt, some don't

It took a few months to get it, but his was under 400 bucks. I think prices went up slightly, but I'm talking 50 bucks or so. He's also found a source for military ammo (can't use the civvie primers I'm told, too soft) that's about 60 cents a round after shipping.

The rifle came with a very nice instruction manual, three color, and some other stuff. My Pop had been expecting a rifle in a bag tossed in a box, and was pleasantly surprised by the quality of the rifle and it's packaging

I saw a pro-prepped SKS (with the folding bayonet) at a gun show this spring. Really nice rifle. 300 bucks, the dealer's non-prepped, out of the wrapper rifles were about 80 bucks cheaper.

If you get an '03 Springfield, you'll really like that too. Just be careful of yanking the bolt too hard and flinging hot brass onto the guy at the next station http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Ernst_Rohr
08-10-2006, 08:04 AM
Posted Thu August 10 2006 00:46
Thanks guys. The info on the Type 99 really helps. I have a little collection of my own. So far I have a Mosin Nagant M91/30, a M42 Mauser and a M48 Mauser as well as an English No.4 Enfield .303. I am dying to get my hands on a M1 Garand, but the funds are not quite sufficient just yet to blow $500 - $1000 on a gun. Especially with gas at $3 a gallon.

Anyway, On my ultimate wishlist are the Garand, the 1903 springfield, a Mosin M44, an SKS, Type 99 Jap, as well as a K98 Mauser.

Ernst_Rohr: What would it cost for me to get the reloading dies for the Type 99? Would I have to get them special ordered from Japan? Would I also have to get the ammo from Japan too?

Reloding dies are availible from several different US manufacturers.

Norma 7.7mm brass is about $20 for a box of 20, but you can get several uses out of each case.

A good set of dies will run around $30-$40 for good ones. The actual reloading machine is going to cost a few hundred though, RCBS or Dillon are pretty good ones if you want a progressive loader. If you want to start smaller, single stage reloaders are considerable cheaper, but take signifigantly longer to reload rounds with.

Bullets and primers are dirt cheap, you can gets bags of good quality bullets for pennies on the dollar.

As far as accuracy goes, the Type 99 is better than most modern guns, but not as good as some of the other WW2 battle rifles. I own several, and the Type 99 was only average.

Scharnhorst1943
08-10-2006, 10:40 AM
Thanks chuck http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I will check them out. (I am in the US BTW http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif)) Just out of curiosity, did the Garand your dad bought come with a bayonet and a sling?

This hobbie is like every other one. Initial set up costs first, but in the long run is cheaper and you get beter results, ie more acurrate rounds.

Chuck_Older
08-10-2006, 11:22 AM
No bayonet, no sling. The CMP is in it for target shooting, not collecting unfortunately.

the bayonets can be had...it's like anything else, how much do you want to sepnd? The leather slings may be hard to get, I don't know. Web slings are available. M-1 tools are cheap, Pop paid 17 bucks, comes with the canvas bag to store it in the butt. GI cleaning kits are cheap too. All this stuff dad got online, even applied for the M-1 at the CMP online...he might have had an easy time getting one because of his age though- double check. I'm not sure how that works

You may have to qualify with the rifle in a CMP "meet" to take advantage of their offer. I'm not 100% sure how that works

joopy1974
08-10-2006, 12:27 PM
Howdy,

I'm a gun collector also, and I have almost every frontline battle rifle from the late 19th and 20th centuries. I have all of the ones mentioned here and can confirm everyone's comments here.

My 99 is a late war build, with the fixed rear sight. It is a rather crude looking weapon, with its chunky welds and nailed on wooden butt plate (they were made that way). But, I would say it is above average in terms of accuracy. At least, much better than I expected, considering the primative sights. Recoil was not as bad as I expected, either. About like the .303 Enfield, but nowhere near that of the Mosin M44.

My favorites are probably my '03 Springfield and the 6.5mm Swedish M96. They are the most accurate of them all. In fact, I took the Swede out deer hunting a few years ago. I hit one in a crossing shot, on the run, at over 200 yards. Some of the other hunters laughed at me, cuz they were carrying their $1000 guns with $500 scopes. Mine never jammed like theirs, and I did in one shot, what took some of them several to accomplish.

Unlike most other hobbies, this one is a sound monetary investment,too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

S!

4H_Joop

Ernst_Rohr
08-10-2006, 01:41 PM
I would agree on the investment part of that as well. I paid $350 for my Garand several years back, and in the condition its in, it worth well over a grand now. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Plus the fact that its all real history, great stuff to preserve! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JG53_Wotan
08-10-2006, 03:41 PM
I have a Series 1 (#46498) Nagoya Arsenal Type 99 Rifle. The Chrysanthemum on the top of the receiver has been scratched off like most. The stock is one piece.

It has the folding / sliding sight. The stamped serial number on the left side of the receiver is 46498 and the marking (Arsenal Mark) to the right of the serial indicates it was manufactured by Nagoya Arsenal. The serial number range (0-99,999) puts it as a series 1, this is confirmed by the stamped mark left of the serial.

The bolt action is clumsy and I rarely shoot it. The stock is in decent shape but is worn (nicks, stractches, dings etc...). I don't have the sling or bayonet nor the monpod, bolt cover or cleaning rod.

I prefer my K98 completely over the Type 99 and rarely ever shoot it.

ElAurens
08-10-2006, 04:30 PM
I have a type 38 6.5mm with Chrysanthemum intact. It was obviously restocked as it has the typical 2 piece buttstock. I have yet to fire it as I want a good gunsmith to check headspace on it. I do have a couple of boxes of Norma ammo for it that came with the deal. I wouild say that the early type is better fitted/finished than the Type 99, but this is true of just about every nation's battle rifles. For example, the Enfield No.1 Mk.III SMLE is far better finished than the No.4 Mk.I, and on our side of the pond the US 30-40 Krag was far better made/finished than any US rifle to come after it. Not a better rifle mind you, but far higher standard of assembly quality.

Joopy, I agree totally about the Swedish Model 96. The best Mauser design rifle ever, and the Swedish built versions are of a far higher quality than the Waffenfabrik Mauser built units. I shot my first season of high power with my 96/38 (It was all I had), and I was never, ever the lowest scoring shooter. The guys with ARs and M14s were also quite amazed how quickly I could get off 10 rounds in the rapid fire stages. And it is still satisfying to take it to the range and outshoot the guy with the big bore uber magnum, with a surplus rifle and surplus military ammo, and iron sights.

Esel1964
08-10-2006, 06:46 PM
El Aurens-I agree with you on the 30-40 Krag's extreme quality.My dad had one he used to deer hunt with,and that thing(while full of faults as a battle rifle)was a work of art.

I too am with Joopy on the 96 Swede,wish I had one.I've seen them in action at the range,and they're impressive for sure.I'm still kicking myself for not buying one that had matching ser. # on the receiver,bolt,bayonet,and bayo. sheath,for $60;a few years back.

Treetop64
08-10-2006, 08:04 PM
Hey Scharhorst! I've got one.

Yep.

I use it whiles I's huntin' squirrel all the time, yessiree-bob! Pretty dad-gum potent, too.

Squirrel though, you see, you's gotta cook it good and long, like all day in them fangdangled "crook-pots" dat them cityfolk be usin', or whatever it is they call dem things. 'Cause if you don't, then it tastes gamey, see?

slo_1_2_3
08-10-2006, 08:40 PM
An SKS wouldn't be too hard to get I wouldn't think. My uncle got one with a bayonet for 200 dollars , He let me use it for deer season, it hardly has nay recoil and its quiet enough that the deer I shot at didn't pay attention giving me time to unload a magazine worth of ammo on it at 50 yards, but I missed with like 5 shots so they obviously don't shoot straight, either that or I'm a bad shot,but that couldn't be. they just don't shoot straight

Scharnhorst1943
08-10-2006, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
Hey Scharhorst! I've got one.

Yep.

I use it whiles I's huntin' squirrel all the time, yessiree-bob! Pretty dad-gum potent, too.

Squirrel though, you see, you's gotta cook it good and long, like all day in them fangdangled "crook-pots" dat them cityfolk be usin', or whatever it is they call dem things. 'Cause if you don't, then it tastes gamey, see?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Seriously? ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Scharnhorst1943
08-10-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
An SKS wouldn't be too hard to get I wouldn't think. My uncle got one with a bayonet for 200 dollars , He let me use it for deer season, it hardly has nay recoil and its quiet enough that the deer I shot at didn't pay attention giving me time to unload a magazine worth of ammo on it at 50 yards, but I missed with like 5 shots so they obviously don't shoot straight, either that or I'm a bad shot,but that couldn't be. they just don't shoot straight

Two mags at 50 yards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif
No really, your just a bad shot http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Esel1964
08-10-2006, 09:36 PM
Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
An SKS wouldn't be too hard to get I wouldn't think. My uncle got one with a bayonet for 200 dollars , He let me use it for deer season, it hardly has nay recoil and its quiet enough that the deer I shot at didn't pay attention giving me time to unload a magazine worth of ammo on it at 50 yards, but I missed with like 5 shots so they obviously don't shoot straight, either that or I'm a bad shot,but that couldn't be. they just don't shoot straight

Maybe your sights were bumped loading/unloading the rifle from the vehicle?
I've got 2,1 good('54 Russian) and a Chinese "parts" gun(constructed from random parts grabbed from bins-no numbers match),both shoot decent(Russian obviously better).Either would hit the zone on a deer at 50 yd.

Maybe you had "buck fever". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Just joking.

Treetop64
08-10-2006, 09:49 PM
Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Treetop64:
Hey Scharhorst! I've got one.

Yep.

I use it whiles I's huntin' squirrel all the time, yessiree-bob! Pretty dad-gum potent, too.

Squirrel though, you see, you's gotta cook it good and long, like all day in them fangdangled "crook-pots" dat them cityfolk be usin', or whatever it is they call dem things. 'Cause if you don't, then it tastes gamey, see?

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Seriously? ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeppers, as serious as the look on George Bush's face at one of dem spellin' bee contest that those smart kids be goin' to! Heck, I cain't even spell I.R.S. if it stared me square in da face. I'm 'bout as bright as a burnt match there, bubby!

So anyways, back to my point. Seriously, to git rid of dat gameyness you's gotta throw in a bunch of raddishes an' chit'lins, an' dat should cover it all up good, yeah? Try it out and lets alls your cousins n' uncles n' kinfolk here know how it all came out, ya hear?

Esel1964
08-10-2006, 10:01 PM
Treetop- Sounds like you got a hankering fer sum squirrel.Why don't you ogle these resipes,find one you like,and I'll kill us a batcha tree rats using my one good tooth,and cook up a squirrel-fest fly-in.

http://www.backwoodsbound.com/zsquir.html

Seriously though-if you could hit a squirrel with a Type 99,it would basically fly apart-big time.

Treetop64
08-10-2006, 11:35 PM
Wooo-Wee! Sounds gee-ood! I'll brings me sister/wife!

Scharnhorst1943
08-10-2006, 11:41 PM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
Wooo-Wee! Sounds gee-ood! I'll brings me sister/wife!

does the "/" signify AND, as in both or AND as in both in the same physical person http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Esel1964
08-10-2006, 11:53 PM
He means that anybody that likes guns,basically,does their sister. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

slo_1_2_3
08-11-2006, 01:22 AM
Originally posted by Esel1964:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
An SKS wouldn't be too hard to get I wouldn't think. My uncle got one with a bayonet for 200 dollars , He let me use it for deer season, it hardly has nay recoil and its quiet enough that the deer I shot at didn't pay attention giving me time to unload a magazine worth of ammo on it at 50 yards, but I missed with like 5 shots so they obviously don't shoot straight, either that or I'm a bad shot,but that couldn't be. they just don't shoot straight

Maybe your sights were bumped loading/unloading the rifle from the vehicle?
I've got 2,1 good('54 Russian) and a Chinese "parts" gun(constructed from random parts grabbed from bins-no numbers match),both shoot decent(Russian obviously better).Either would hit the zone on a deer at 50 yd.

Maybe you had "buck fever". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Just joking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Buck fever? it was a doe. And well come on it was the first time I shot the gun, I was previously usin a 30-06 with 180grain bullets. Little difference.

Treetop64
08-11-2006, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by Esel1964:
He means that anybody that likes guns,basically,does their sister. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Aw, come on!. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I wasn't trying to say that at all. I'm sorry if you interpreted it that way. I was just having a little fun, that's all. A little fun never hurt anyone, aint that right, y'all?! Besides, I like guns too, and I don't do my sister.

...Of course, I don't have a sister, so that pretty much fixes that situation.

joopy1974
08-11-2006, 08:22 AM
El,

Amen to the iron sights, brotha!

About the SKS, I have had several. I currently own three. A Russian, Chinese and Yugo. I have found that the ones built like the original Russians (i.e. milled receiver with screw in barrel) shoot the best. My Chinese example is of this type and I can hit a soda can at nearly 200 yards with it. My brother has one as well, and it shoots the same. Some of the others that I have owned however, well... you could have had an equal chance of success by throwing the bullets by hand. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Ernst_Rohr
08-11-2006, 08:54 AM
The SKS could never really claim to be an "accurate" rifle. The Russian milled guns are at least adequate, as well as some of the milled Chinese guns, the stamped guns are generally pretty poor.

I am pretty suspicious of most Chinese made guns after having a rather "interesting" failure with a Chinese semi-auto AK. The potmetal firing pin was flawed, and the pin snapped along a flaw, resulting in the now broken end hanging on part of the spring that wraps the firing pin and protruding slightly from the bolt face. Needless to say, this resulted in a rather unplanned for full auto conversion, as the protruding pin caused the gun to slam fire on the bolt closing.

NOT a pleasant surprise, and one that cause a lot of consternation at the range!

Cheap Chinese guns = BAD!

(btw, this also applies to a lot of the Romanian made firearms as well, they are junk!)

Aaron_GT
08-11-2006, 03:35 PM
I was shooting an M1 Garand (made in '43) and a 1903 Springfield just the other day...but that's the extent of my experience with shooting WWII (and WWI) rifles

20 years ago now, when these things were still legal here, I had an M1903 and a friend had an M1 for WW2 reenacting, and I'd say that's a pretty fair assessment of the feel of the two rifles. The M1903 is a finely tuned machine, but the M1 feels more solid. I also owned an M1917 (which was actually the more common rifle in WW1) and that was a rather solid beast. It's a mauser action like the M1903, although not as smooth feeling, but apart from that I'd rate it as a more solid and well designed battle rifle than any M1903 until the A3. But the smoother action means you can fire more quickly with the '03. But the Enfield No.4 Mk. 1 has an even smoother action than the '03 and the strength of the M1917.

SkyChimp
08-11-2006, 08:37 PM
I have one. I have a late model "last ditch" rifle. I wouldn't dream of shooting it. The quality is very poor and machining is extremely rough. It has fixed sights. The stock is good, but it has a bamboo butt cap nailed on. Curiously, the Chrysanthemum is still intact. As bad as it sounds, its a fine example of what the Japanese were turning out in 1944 and 1945. In fact, mine was taken in the Philippines in late 1944 by my uncle, along with a bayonet (and scabard) in near pristine condition.

Don't ever shoot a "last ditch" rifle. Even a good quality early war model should be checked out by a competent gunsmith.

han freak solo
08-11-2006, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Ernst_Rohr:
I am pretty suspicious of most Chinese made guns after having a rather "interesting" failure . . . . . . . . . as the protruding pin caused the gun to slam fire on the bolt closing.

I've got a milled Chinese SKS I bought new back in 1992. Very reliable with no jams with probably 3000 rounds put though it. Accuracy? Well, you SKS owners know it's good enough for what it is.

I've had 3 slam-fire situations though. Once was when I let the bolt slam home under spring pressure to chamber a round. The other two were "double-shots". Meaning I pulled the trigger once which fired and extracted the shell, then when the action stripped off a new round and chambered it, it fired instantly again.

It may not be true slam-fires that my SKS has, perhaps the hammer is striking the firing pin. These 3 instances happened years apart from each other.

All instances were with the rifle aimed downrange and nothing bad happened. I just know the SKS does not have a modern safety system and I kind of expect these things.

The culprit:
http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/chinese_type_56_web.jpg

han freak solo
08-11-2006, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Esel1964:
One of my favorites for highly accurate,affordable plinking is the Swiss K 31,most I've seen imported are in good shape too.

Excellent surplus rifles.
http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/schmidt-rubin_karabiner_31_web.jpg

Taylortony
08-11-2006, 09:20 PM
Pah u Americans and your little guns...........

I tell Ya my old squirrel hunting gun I had when I was in the Army would wipe the floor with them, here is me refilling one of my shells, they were a pig to get in the 20 round mag, and the bolt travel was unbelievably long..............didn't have any problem with chewy squirrel though, they used to tenderise the meat for ya....

http://www.aopt91.dsl.pipex.com/railgun/images/Railguns/Dora/NEWPIC3.JPG



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

han freak solo
08-11-2006, 09:29 PM
Nothin' beats a skinned squirrel in the freezer.

Keeps most people out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

fordfan25
08-11-2006, 10:07 PM
if any one gets the chance to get a M1A1 30 cal carbine i highly recommend it. traded my step dad a mouser 308 for one. 30 round clip and extreamly accurite. LOTS of fun to shoot. im thinking on getting the M1 Garand one day http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Esel1964
08-11-2006, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Esel1964:
He means that anybody that likes guns,basically,does their sister. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Aw, come on!. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I wasn't trying to say that at all. I'm sorry if you interpreted it that way. I was just having a little fun, that's all. A little fun never hurt anyone, aint that right, y'all?! Besides, I like guns too, and I don't do my sister.

...Of course, I don't have a sister, so that pretty much fixes that situation. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Treetop-I apologize for jumping the gun(not an attempt at a bad pun),I recently retired(burned out) from an ultra- political site where I spent most of my time arguing for our 2nd amendment rights.I guess something clicked and I went into automatic defense mode on you,I'm sorry.
And I enjoy sarcasm as much as the next fellow,by the way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Esel1964
08-11-2006, 10:23 PM
Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Esel1964:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slo_1_2_3:
An SKS wouldn't be too hard to get I wouldn't think. My uncle got one with a bayonet for 200 dollars , He let me use it for deer season, it hardly has nay recoil and its quiet enough that the deer I shot at didn't pay attention giving me time to unload a magazine worth of ammo on it at 50 yards, but I missed with like 5 shots so they obviously don't shoot straight, either that or I'm a bad shot,but that couldn't be. they just don't shoot straight

Maybe your sights were bumped loading/unloading the rifle from the vehicle?
I've got 2,1 good('54 Russian) and a Chinese "parts" gun(constructed from random parts grabbed from bins-no numbers match),both shoot decent(Russian obviously better).Either would hit the zone on a deer at 50 yd.

Maybe you had "buck fever". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Just joking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Buck fever? it was a doe. And well come on it was the first time I shot the gun, I was previously usin a 30-06 with 180grain bullets. Little difference. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wasn't questioning your shooting abilities,heck,you're the Boy Scout's version of a SEAL.No foul intended,sorry M8. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

You had doe fever... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

That was a joke-seriously! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

First time with a rifle is usually iffy,because you don't 'know' the sights/sight picture as well.

Xiolablu3
08-12-2006, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Esel1964:
I've got a Type 39(Chrysanthemum and dust cover intact),and if I wanted to shoot it(which I don't) it would be basically over a dollar a round.-not cheap,granted it's a different caliber.
The '03 Springfield is one of the finest service rifles ever issued for accuracy,they're still used in high power competition at Camp Perry.
Mausers are also high up on the list,especially German ones.I've got several Mauser variants(Spanish,Turk,Czech,Yugo) and all are reliable,fairly accurate,cheap and fun to shoot.

Mosin-Nagants are fun,reliable,cheap shooters,I've got a couple of variants and enjoy them.

One of my favorites for highly accurate,affordable plinking is the Swiss K 31,most I've seen imported are in good shape too.

But for alot of plinking fun in a small package,consider an M-1 carbine.That's what I grab when some cans need a good thrashing.Guarenteed to put a smile on your face.Just do some research first,as many on the market have seen better days.

Geez you yanks are lucky b******ds.

If I want to go 'plinking' as you put it, I have to use an air rifle. And full out shooting is using a shotgun and some clay pigeons.

Plinking with a M1 carbine, just sounds ridiculous to me :P The words 'plinking' and 'M1 carbine' are actually used in the same sentence in some countries?!? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Its like going for a Sunday drive in a Ferarri GTO or something similar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chuck_Older
08-12-2006, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Its like going for a Sunday drive in a Ferarri GTO or something similar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And this is a bad idea... why? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But my rifle club would kick you out if you tried plinking with an M-1 carbine

Xiolablu3
08-12-2006, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Its like going for a Sunday drive in a Ferarri GTO or something similar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And this is a bad idea... why? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But my rifle club would kick you out if you tried plinking with an M-1 carbine </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, I dont hink its necesarily a bad idea, but would be very expenive to us Limeys with gas at 1 a litre, that 5 a gallon,

around $8.50-$9 a gallon to you Yanks. DOesnt a US Humvee do somehting like 1 mile to 3 gallons? Thats around $27 a mile http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I owuld love to own a FG42, M1 carbine or a STG44/Mp44. I think an FG42 is onnly about 40,000 now.

http://www.fg42.net/

Beautiful, rare gun, I know it wasnt a very good performer, but I love it.

Chuck_Older
08-12-2006, 09:36 AM
Well at that price driving anything on a Sunday is a burden. Hopefully, this BS "oil shortage" nonsense will stabilise, panic and profiteering will die down, and we'll get the best of both worlds- new tech that uses fuel better, and real-world prices for fuel. Competetion for gas powered vehicles can only be good and everyone's trying to make the fuel cell breakthrough that will make them billionaires

But I gotta wonder- if you have a Ferrari GTO, you're going to get worried over a couple hundred pounds for fuel?

A US commercial Hummer gets much "better" gas mileage than that, about the same as my fun car...the trouble is, my fun car was designed in 1969...shouldn't a new vehicle get better mileage? For Expeditions can get close to as "good" gas mileage as my fun car...I've gotten anywhere from 10-15 MPG in that car depending on ym cam and rear gears...but as a comparison, the engine in my fun car is a 7.5L engine (started life as a 7.4L) designed in '69....the Ford Expediation has decades of tech to draw from, and has a smaller engine by far. The Hummer has what, an 8.0L powerplant? And it gets similar gas mileage to my 4,000 pound muscle car? I use a carburetor, use no emissions sampling computers, and have a distributor instead of coil packs for the love of Christ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif If I had new tech coil packs, a CPU controlled spark curve, and fuel injection, my 7.5L would get 20 mpg easily!

Esel1964
08-12-2006, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:

Its like going for a Sunday drive in a Ferarri GTO or something similar http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And this is a bad idea... why? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif But my rifle club would kick you out if you tried plinking with an M-1 carbine </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My gun club doesn't allow plinking with any firearm.Paper target on proper backboards only.They do shoot steel in silhouette matches and practical pistol competition,but under tightly controlled conditions.
Plinking's done on private,rural property. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Fork-N-spoon
08-12-2006, 03:51 PM
If you're having a problem finding 7.7mm Japanese brass, I'm quite sure that you could turn 30/06 brass into 7.7mm Japanese. I also believe that .303 british uses the same diameter round as 7.7mm Japanese. I believe that it's .311 in America. You can easily find once fired 30/06 military brass at gun shows.

polak5
08-12-2006, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:

The culprit:
http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/chinese_type_56_web.jpg

My uncle has a SKS with a folding stock its quite nice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

polak5
08-12-2006, 04:01 PM
This be my enfield http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/929/cimg0145bm2.jpg

Messaschnitzel
08-12-2006, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
Nothin' beats a skinned squirrel in the freezer.

Keeps most people out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Hey han,

One of my earliest memories is while eating a bowl of squirrel stew, I dipped my spoon into the bowl and brought up a small skull instead of a spoonful of squirrel meat. I had to have been around four or five years old. At that point in time, I was told to always finish whatever food that was put in front of me, but this was too much. "Hey mom! there's a squirrel skull in the stew! Do I gotta eat it?" She replied, "No, You don't have to eat it. Just set it aside."

When I put the skull on the plate, I turned it so that the eye sockets were facing away from me because I don't like anyone staring at me while I am eating. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

R_Target
08-12-2006, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Messaschnitzel:
One of my earliest memories is while eating a bowl of squirrel stew, I dipped my spoon into the bowl and brought up a small skull instead of a spoonful of squirrel meat. I had to have been around four or five years old. At that point in time, I was told to always finish whatever food that was put in front of me, but this was too much. "Hey mom! there's a squirrel skull in the stew! Do I gotta eat it?" She replied, "No, You don't have to eat it. Just set it aside."

When I put the skull on the plate, I turned it so that the eye sockets were facing away from me because I don't like anyone staring at me while I am eating. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif That's the funniest story I've heard in quite some time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

han freak solo
08-13-2006, 08:42 PM
Originally posted by R_Target:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif That's the funniest story I've heard in quite some time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

+1 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

han freak solo
08-13-2006, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by polak5:
This be my enfield http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


That's so British. A bicycling rifle squad. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

han freak solo
08-13-2006, 08:52 PM
My 2 cents on the M1 Garand.

It's the smoothest shooting full power .30 caliber I've ever fired. The gas operation seems to spread out the recoil long enough to make the recoil feel lessened than a typical .30-06 bolt gun.

My brother had one. I wish I had one. Maybe someday. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Esel1964
08-13-2006, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by polak5:
This be my enfield http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


That's so British. A bicycling rifle squad. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check out the sight elevation(looks like it's in the 500-800 yd range),that bike's good out to at least 500 yd. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously though
,Polak 5,nice Enfield-that's one on my wish-list which seems to get further from my grasp daily. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Fork-N-spoon
08-14-2006, 01:55 AM
On the M-1 Garand and recoil. I doubt that it's the gas operation that makes the rifle seem like it recoils less. It is most likely due to the fact that the 30/06 bolt action rifles that you're used to shooting are sport rifles that weigh six or seven pounds. The M-1 Garand is a fair bit heavier than modern sport rifles, hence it recoils less. I had an 8mm Remington Magnum that weighed 25 pounds and it was rather nice to shoot all day long. I could fire 500 rounds in an afternoon from that rifle and it didn't bother me one bit. The recoil in such a heavy rifle was nil. On the other hand, 400 rounds from a 6.5lb 30/06 rifle in an afternoon would beat me up. Bullet weight is also critical. From a 30/06, a 220-grain bullet will give a more gentle sustained push during recoil than a 110-grain bullet from the same rifle. The 110-grain max loads will give you a very sharp smack in comparison.

No mistake about the 25lb 8mm Remington Magnum. It was a custom built rifle with a full length bull barrel and lead added to the stock to increase the weight. It was my plinking rifle.

That's been my experience.

Esel1964
08-14-2006, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
On the M-1 Garand and recoil. I doubt that it's the gas operation that makes the rifle seem like it recoils less. It is most likely due to the fact that the 30/06 bolt action rifles that you're used to shooting are sport rifles that weigh six or seven pounds. The M-1 Garand is a fair bit heavier than modern sport rifles, hence it recoils less. I had an 8mm Remington Magnum that weighed 25 pounds and it was rather nice to shoot all day long. I could fire 500 rounds in an afternoon from that rifle and it didn't bother me one bit. The recoil in such a heavy rifle was nil. On the other hand, 400 rounds from a 6.5lb 30/06 rifle in an afternoon would beat me up. Bullet weight is also critical. From a 30/06, a 220-grain bullet will give a more gentle sustained push during recoil than a 110-grain bullet from the same rifle. The 110-grain max loads will give you a very sharp smack in comparison.

No mistake about the 25lb 8mm Remington Magnum. It was a custom built rifle with a full length bull barrel and lead added to the stock to increase the weight. It was my plinking rifle.

That's been my experience.

I know what you mean,I've got an 8x56R M95 Steyr-Mannlicher carbine that is Too light,and definitely "informs one,when one has pulled the trigger".

After re-reading your post,I'd like to bring up one issue-contrary to what you said, assuming they're traveling at similar velocities,from the same rifle,a heavier bullet will kick more,physics;assuming you're not including inordinately overweight rifles. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Esel1964
08-14-2006, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by polak5:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:

The culprit:
http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/chinese_type_56_web.jpg

My uncle has a SKS with a folding stock its quite nice. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like someone took the time/effort to make it as stealthy as possible.

I see the cleaning rod and bayonet have been removed,good move,as they say around here,"They're as useless as t*ts on a boar hog";not to mention all the noise they cause.
And someone's put the "Westerner" butt extension on,another help.

Fork-N-spoon
08-14-2006, 06:11 AM
Esel1964, I don't believe I made my point clear enough about lighter bullets have a much sharper kick than heavier bullets. I am secifically speaking about one rifle, a light 6 1/2 pound bolt action 30/06.

Firing a 110 gr. bullet from this rifle using fast burning powder mv 3500 fps
Firing a 220 gr. bullet from this rifle using slow burning powder mv 2600 fps

While shooting these two loads, I've noticed that the light bullet gives a very harsh violent crack on my shoulder. On the other hand, shooting the 220 gr loads gives a heavy sustained shove. True the rifle recoils more in terms of movement, but to my shoulder the 110 gr loads hurt more. That's what I've noticed in all the shooting that I've done.

Ernst_Rohr
08-14-2006, 08:28 AM
Felt recoil has a lot to do with powder load, powder type, bullet weight, and rifle weight.

A large bullet, with fast burning powder, in a light rifle will stomp the hell out of you!

Powder burn has a lot to do with the "sharpness" of recoil. Fast powder builds immediately, while "slow" powder builds energy on a still very rapid, but gradual burst.

Almost all of the WW2 era battle rifles are fairly heavy, since they were designed to be fired over sustained periods of time with full power rifle rounds. Thats NOT to say that they are comfortable or friendly during and after sustained firing!

The Garand is a very pleasant rifle to shoot due to the damping effect of the gas operation and the blowback system it uses. One of the reasons is that the force of the gas is being converted into energy in the gas system in order to work the bolt face and cycle the action.

In terms of shooting characteristics, I would say the Garand is hands down the most pleasant to shoot out of all the issued full battle rifles from WW2, followed by the Enfield. The worst (most punishing) is the Mosin-Nagant M44 carbine! I call the M44 the macho-buster, if someone thinks they are a macho bada$$ at the range, I let them fire the M44. Most dont make it through a full magazine! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif VERY punishing recoil on the M44!

I have fired some very large bore rifles (.416 Rigby, .458 Winchester) and the felt recoil in the M44 comes pretty close to those big bruisers!

Scharnhorst1943
08-14-2006, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Esel1964:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by han freak solo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by polak5:
This be my enfield http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif


That's so British. A bicycling rifle squad. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Check out the sight elevation(looks like it's in the 500-800 yd range),that bike's good out to at least 500 yd. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Seriously though
,Polak 5,nice Enfield-that's one on my wish-list which seems to get further from my grasp daily. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Or maybe its the gun from "Quiggly Down Under" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Esel1964
08-14-2006, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
Esel1964, I don't believe I made my point clear enough about lighter bullets have a much sharper kick than heavier bullets. I am secifically speaking about one rifle, a light 6 1/2 pound bolt action 30/06.

Firing a 110 gr. bullet from this rifle using fast burning powder mv 3500 fps
Firing a 220 gr. bullet from this rifle using slow burning powder mv 2600 fps

While shooting these two loads, I've noticed that the light bullet gives a very harsh violent crack on my shoulder. On the other hand, shooting the 220 gr loads gives a heavy sustained shove. True the rifle recoils more in terms of movement, but to my shoulder the 110 gr loads hurt more. That's what I've noticed in all the shooting that I've done.

OK,I'm with you now.I agree with Ernst Rohr,the difference you're feeling is the difference in muzzle velocities,caused by different powders.

Messaschnitzel
08-14-2006, 06:24 PM
You guys are right about the weight factor being a big deal with the recoil. When I was 10 years old I bought a model 1903A1 from a neighbor who was getting too old to hunt anymore. I paid $25.00 for it. That thing was as big as me, but it was heavy enough that I could shoot it without having to shuffle step back when it went off. My older brother and I would go to the hardware store where the owner had WW2 surplus ammo for sale. I remember that we would get the eight round Garand clips for something like .50-.75 cents apiece and pull the rounds loose so we could use them in the Springfield. There was an old abandoned oil field storage container that was made of steel plate that was probably 1/4" thick at least. When we shot at it, we found that the black tipped rounds would punch right through the plate while our dad's .35 caliber remington 14 would only dent and splatter against the side of the empty oil tank. After a while, I would trade rifles so my brother could shoot the 1903. The remington was a little lighter than the 1903 and would hurt my shoulder and force me back a little when I fired it, so after a few rounds I would knock off.

When I was a kid almost every dime that I worked my tail off for went for some kind of ammunition so that I could hunt or just go shooting. The only difference now is that it's a lot more expensive! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Esel1964
08-14-2006, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by Messaschnitzel:
You guys are right about the weight factor being a big deal with the recoil. When I was 10 years old I bought a model 1903A1 from a neighbor who was getting too old to hunt anymore. I paid $25.00 for it. That thing was as big as me, but it was heavy enough that I could shoot it without having to shuffle step back when it went off. My older brother and I would go to the hardware store where the owner had WW2 surplus ammo for sale. I remember that we would get the eight round Garand clips for something like .50-.75 cents apiece and pull the rounds loose so we could use them in the Springfield. There was an old abandoned oil field storage container that was made of steel plate that was probably 1/4" thick at least. When we shot at it, we found that the black tipped rounds would punch right through the plate while our dad's .35 caliber remington 14 would only dent and splatter against the side of the empty oil tank. After a while, I would trade rifles so my brother could shoot the 1903. The remington was a little lighter than the 1903 and would hurt my shoulder and force me back a little when I fired it, so after a few rounds I would knock off.

When I was a kid almost every dime that I worked my tail off for went for some kind of ammunition so that I could hunt or just go shooting. The only difference now is that it's a lot more expensive! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

As I'm sure you're aware,black tip denotes armor-piercing rounds-at least in American military ammo.

Definitely agree on the $$$ issue. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Messaschnitzel
08-14-2006, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Esel1964:

As I'm sure you're aware,black tip denotes armor-piercing rounds-at least in American military ammo.



I only found out what they were years later. I still have a couple of them lost somewhere in all of my stuff. I remember buying a couple of the clips that had blue tips on them, not knowing that they were incendiaries. I brought them home and set them on the kitchen table while my father was sitting there. He said that I wasn't going to be shooting those anywhere near here. After explaining what they did and seeing my eyes light up, he said that if he caught me shooting those and setting the woods on fire, that he would wrap that rifle around my neck. Being afraid of my dad, I never did shoot them. I kept them around for years, and now I have no idea if I even have them still.

Esel1964
08-14-2006, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Messaschnitzel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Esel1964:

As I'm sure you're aware,black tip denotes armor-piercing rounds-at least in American military ammo.



I only found out what they were years later. I still have a couple of them lost somewhere in all of my stuff. I remember buying a couple of the clips that had blue tips on them, not knowing that they were incendiaries. I brought them home and set them on the kitchen table while my father was sitting there. He said that I wasn't going to be shooting those anywhere near here. After explaining what they did and seeing my eyes light up, he said that if he caught me shooting those and setting the woods on fire, that he would wrap that rifle around my neck. Being afraid of my dad, I never did shoot them. I kept them around for years, and now I have no idea if I even have them still. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Cool story!
It seems like I always lose the things that bring back cool memories,too.

han freak solo
08-14-2006, 09:06 PM
Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
On the M-1 Garand and recoil. I doubt that it's the gas operation that makes the rifle seem like it recoils less. It is most likely due to the fact that the 30/06 bolt action rifles that you're used to shooting are sport rifles that weigh six or seven pounds. The M-1 Garand is a fair bit heavier than modern sport rifles, hence it recoils less.


The only comparison I had with the Garand that day was with a British Enfield MKIII and my K31 pictured in this thread. Neither sporterized.

The Garand truly feels like it reduces the "spike" of recoil into more of a push. If the Garand has a pound or two of extra weight that may be the case.

han freak solo
08-14-2006, 09:17 PM
Originally posted by Esel1964:

http://www.lssdigital.com/lwpilot/chinese_type_56_web.jpg
Looks like someone took the time/effort to make it as stealthy as possible.

I see the cleaning rod and bayonet have been removed,good move,as they say around here,"They're as useless as t*ts on a boar hog";not to mention all the noise they cause.
And someone's put the "Westerner" butt extension on,another help.

Yep, I bought it actually not sure what it was at the time. It was imported with the name "Cowboy Companion". It had a yellow stained stock and it came with the spike bayonet, cleaning rod, cleaning kit, 200 round ammo "suspenders", and canvas sling.

I hated the grip of the stock, so I reshaped it a little, sanded the old finish off and gave it a typical 'Merican brown finish. I had to add the butt extension because the reach was too short for me. It surely isn't because of recoil reduction. I changed the canvas sling for a brown leather one, too.

It's a sweet shootin' and handlin' 20" rifle. If any .30 caliber can be called a plinker, this has to be one of them. Cheap ammo, too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

The only bad thing is when you actually have the cleaning kit behind the trapdoor in the buttstock and try to get it out. I get my finger snapped hard nearly every time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Esel1964
08-14-2006, 09:40 PM
Yep, I bought it actually not sure what it was at the time. It was imported with the name "Cowboy Companion". It had a yellow stained stock and it came with the spike bayonet, cleaning rod, cleaning kit, 200 round ammo "suspenders", and canvas sling.

I hated the grip of the stock, so I reshaped it a little, sanded the old finish off and gave it a typical 'Merican brown finish. I had to add the butt extension because the reach was too short for me. It surely isn't because of recoil reduction. I changed the canvas sling for a brown leather one, too.

It's a sweet shootin' and handlin' 20" rifle. If any .30 caliber can be called a plinker, this has to be one of them. Cheap ammo, too.

Yeah,they're sweet shooters for the money.My Chinese one NEEDS the extension you have,esp. since I'm 6' 4".I feel like I'm shooting a Daisy Red Ryder,as far as gun-frame size goes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fork-N-spoon
08-15-2006, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Ernst_Rohr:
Felt recoil has a lot to do with powder load, powder type, bullet weight, and rifle weight.

A large bullet, with fast burning powder, in a light rifle will stomp the hell out of you!

Powder burn has a lot to do with the "sharpness" of recoil. Fast powder builds immediately, while "slow" powder builds energy on a still very rapid, but gradual burst.

Almost all of the WW2 era battle rifles are fairly heavy, since they were designed to be fired over sustained periods of time with full power rifle rounds. Thats NOT to say that they are comfortable or friendly during and after sustained firing!

The Garand is a very pleasant rifle to shoot due to the damping effect of the gas operation and the blowback system it uses. One of the reasons is that the force of the gas is being converted into energy in the gas system in order to work the bolt face and cycle the action.

In terms of shooting characteristics, I would say the Garand is hands down the most pleasant to shoot out of all the issued full battle rifles from WW2, followed by the Enfield. The worst (most punishing) is the Mosin-Nagant M44 carbine! I call the M44 the macho-buster, if someone thinks they are a macho bada$$ at the range, I let them fire the M44. Most dont make it through a full magazine! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif VERY punishing recoil on the M44!

I have fired some very large bore rifles (.416 Rigby, .458 Winchester) and the felt recoil in the M44 comes pretty close to those big bruisers!

I do not understand how the gas operation will dampen the recoil of the M-1 Garand. The gas port isn't encountered until the bullet has almost left the barrel, thus the bullet has completed more than 90% of it's acceleration before the gas system is activated. Moreover the amount of gas tapped isn't very significant. The reason why the M-1 Garand recoils less than other 30/06 bolt action sport rifles is due to the fact that it's three to four pounds heavier.

han freak solo
08-15-2006, 06:48 AM
It's time for a trip to the range then, y'all. This is what I had directly compared side by side a couple years back and was amazed at how smooth the recoil felt with the Garand. The bolt guns hit hard with a spike of recoil. All of 'em had FMJ ball ammo that day. Try it. It'll be fun. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Weights:
M1 Garand / 4.3 Kg (9 lb. 10 oz.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Garand
SMLE MkIII / 3.9 Kg (8 lb. 10.5 oz.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield
Schmidt-Rubin K31 / 4.0 Kg. (8 lbs 13 oz.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K31

Calibers:
M1 Garand / .30-06 (7.62 x 63 mm) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30-06_Springfield
SMLE MkIII / .303 British (7.7 x 56 mm) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British
Schmidt-Rubin K31 / 7.5x55mm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.5_x_55_Schmidt_Rubin

The M1 has 1 extra pound of weight, but also fires a slighty faster cartridge. About 400 fps faster at the muzzle than the other two.

Ernst_Rohr
08-15-2006, 11:28 PM
There are a couple of things going on in gas operated vs bolt guns.

1st, felt recoil in a regular bolt action is linear. When the round is fired, the recoil is being transferred directly into the stock, and into your shoulder. Reduction in recoil is pretty much a case of energy vs mass, the heavier the gun, the less "felt" recoil is transferred to your shoulder. The energy is still there, but its being spent on moving mass, and the overall effect is that the "sharpness" of the recoil is reduced in relation to the speed that the gun is moving backward.

In the Garand, as the gas is pushing down the barrel, it diverts part of its force into the gas tube and then heads back down to bolt. Despite being far down the barrel, the gas pressure working back to the action are quite high. The distance of the gas port down the barrel is to give the powder time to burn completely before the round exits the barrel. In the case of the Garand (and most gas operated actions) when the pressure of the gas acting against the bolt drops to a safe level, the bolt unlocks, and the remaining gas pressure forces the bolt back, cycling the action.

The diversion of the gas bleeds some recoil energy, but the bolt and the action act as a energy sink for the remainder of the recoil energy, since the recoil force is being subverted into cycling the action of the gun. This results in more of the engergy being spent acting agains the VERY stout springs and a rather heavy bolt. All of this combines to reduce the recoil to a "push" as opposed to a "kick".

han freak solo
08-16-2006, 06:35 AM
Thanks for the explanation, Ernst.

I've read info of that sort through the years, but I am not personally experienced enough to write about it. All I have is the shoulder test. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

home50
01-28-2010, 09:52 PM
ya i got one.comes with a dead jap.but if not interested with the jap , i geuss ill knock sone $ off. for sale arisaka type 99 series#6 serial 67701 nagoya arsenal 1923-45 very good shape.oh dad whip some *** for it.now drives a toyota,trader.

Feathered_IV
01-29-2010, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by home50:
ya i got one.comes with a dead jap.but if not interested with the jap , i geuss ill knock sone $ off. for sale arisaka type 99 series#6 serial 67701 nagoya arsenal 1923-45 very good shape.oh dad whip some *** for it.now drives a toyota,trader.

Coward. Care to post under your regular sig?

Waldo.Pepper
01-29-2010, 01:46 AM
As long as we are all time traveling now. I think 2007 will be just awesome!

TheGrunch
01-29-2010, 03:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yarYjuN-m8I

blairgowrie
01-29-2010, 05:48 AM
I don't know what planet you are from home50 but your first post is really not acceptable. The use of the word Jap is not allowed on the UBI Soft Forums as it is considered racist and offensive to many.

Please do not use it again.

Choctaw111
01-29-2010, 06:07 AM
Originally posted by home50:
ya i got one.comes with a dead jap.but if not interested with the jap , i geuss ill knock sone $ off. for sale arisaka type 99 series#6 serial 67701 nagoya arsenal 1923-45 very good shape.oh dad whip some *** for it.now drives a toyota,trader.

I know a mod already addressed this, but who do you think you are coming in here and saying something like that?!
Have you ever been in combat? You have no rights to making comments like this.
I sure hope this isn't some forum member using an alias http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Anyway, I came in here to say that I don't, but my grandfather has one from Iwo.

BillSwagger
01-29-2010, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by TheGrunch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yarYjuN-m8I

has a mod addressed this?

what the...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

blairgowrie
01-29-2010, 09:04 AM
What a great video!

TheGrunch
01-29-2010, 11:04 AM
It was just a suggestion. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Let's do the time warp, guys! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

R_Target
01-29-2010, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
As long as we are all time traveling now. I think 2007 will be just awesome!

SoW September 2007, be sure!

Ernst_Rohr
01-29-2010, 08:14 PM
Wow, serious thread necromancy!

It even brought me back to post again! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif