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View Full Version : Force Feedback HOTAS... would you buy one if it were available?



Bearcat99
03-01-2006, 08:37 PM

Bearcat99
03-01-2006, 08:37 PM

willyvic
03-01-2006, 09:01 PM
I would try one.

I, too, have a home made setup. My FFB tied in with a set of pedals and and N52 keypad. (I play BF2 and such) Was gonna get a throttle but I know I would get lazy and never switch the N52 out. So, it serves it's purpose well so far.

WV

horseback
03-01-2006, 09:17 PM
If CH made a FF stick, I'd grab it in a moment, and I'd be even happier if they made FF pedals to go with it. But it have to be a real electricity burner to generate a realistic stick or pedal force...

cheers

horseback

tagTaken2
03-01-2006, 09:31 PM
"forunately this sim will allow me to use multiple controllers flawlessly"

Not quite... I still need Fooltrootels Il-2 Sticks to make it easier. (MSFFB2/CH Pro Pedals/Thrustmaster Afterburner 2).

I'd just love it if the MSFFB2 was brought back on the market.

Aren't you being just a little bit selfish hoarding them? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

Prop_Strike
03-01-2006, 11:21 PM
I'm using a similar setup....I have a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force and a set of CH Pro Pedals.
I also use a CH Flight Sim Yoke....How?....Glad you asked...
I have an Akers Barnes cockpit, modified with the Cyborg in the centre, the pedals underneath, and the yoke on the left side back to front(with the wheel facing towards the front).
This way I have a throttle,prop pitch and flap lever at hand(without the wheel getting in the way), and all the other buttons plus another hat switch......works great.
This way I can also have elevator trim on the cyborg's throttle axis.
And yes, I would definately buy a CH or Cougar FFB stick...they would rock. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Prop_Strike
03-01-2006, 11:24 PM
If a lot of people like the idea....maybe you should let CH or Thrustmaster know.....

RevvinUK
03-02-2006, 12:43 AM
I ran a poll here (http://www.ch-hangar.com/index.php?option=com_poll&task=results&id=14) which was open to vote for all, it's about to close as it's run it's course but you'll see FF did'nt do well although I would love to see a USB version of CH's Force FX.

rnzoli
03-02-2006, 01:49 AM
If it's true that MS had to stop the production of MSFFB2 due to patent rights infringements, the same patent may be blocking other manufacturers from starting the production of high-quality FFB sticks. FFB is also considered bad for ww2 combat simming by many "result-oriented" people (read: point-*****s!). So I would be truly surprised if anything like this would appear on the market in the next 5 years.

Odranoel1
03-02-2006, 03:59 AM
I would buy one right away.
The reason why I dont have a HOTAS now is because I must have FFB. Using a gaming keyboard as a button bay, but not satisfied. Maybe I'll copy your idea while waiting...

Would be prepared to pay serious money for a really good, integrated HOTAS with FFB.

Thanks Bearcat. Hope the folks at CH and Saitek are listening ;-)

slipBall
03-02-2006, 04:05 AM
I would buy one right away. I have always been happy with the CH line, and its quality

TX-Zen
03-02-2006, 04:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by horseback:
If CH made a FF stick, I'd grab it in a moment... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Big +1

Same stick as my current CH but with FFB? I'd be there.


So Bear, got something up your sleeve?

Bearcat99
03-02-2006, 06:28 AM
Nahh Zen.... just askin...

Rev I think a lot of people who dont care for FFB have neverused it.. I find for flying it is great because the force varies... I have squadmates who like the stick shake and hit forces... i can take or leave that.. but I like the way you can "feel" the difference in the planes you fly....

tt2... you shouldnt have had to use IL2 sticks.. although it is a great program.... as far as FB is concerned I have 3 controllers hooked up.... ad I have the same combo as you but with an X-45 in place of the TM....

Wilburnator
03-02-2006, 07:36 AM
I had a MS FFB 2 4 years ago and I didn't like it at all. There was nothing about the "feedback" it produced that remotely realistic to me.

I've owned a force feedback wheel too, the Logitec Momo Force, and I've tried several others(Thrustmaster, Microsoft, and RS) driving various racing sims. Lots of people insist on using them , and that's fine. But there's nothing about the sensation they deliver that bears any resemblance to what you feel through the wheel of a real car as you drive. I find that they only mess up my driving line and make for slower lap times.

To each his own.

DaimonSyrius
03-02-2006, 07:45 AM
Absolutely yes from me, Bearcat. I use currently something similar to your combination, only my combo is a Saitek Cyborg Evo Force (for FF) + Saitek X52 for the throttle. The joystick bit in the X52 is quite good nd I use it for additional butons, but I want FF; I wouldn't discard any sensory input (to me) in a simulated environement such as a flight sim where we're already so sensory-deprived, so to say (virtual pilot with only one eye, no inner ear vestibular apparatus, no body sensitivity, etc.)

Also I'd love to have force-feedback pedals (or FF twist stick at least) if some manufacturer were making them and if IL2 could deal with 2 FF devices at the same time. FF for me, as much as possible! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers,
S.

notamuppet
03-02-2006, 08:42 AM
I wish my X52 was FF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif Just got this of Saitek forum :-
Actually force feedback tends to be frowned on by the more hardcore simmer because it's not really very realistic! That plus the additional cost of integrating the feedback into the stick means that we have no plans to release anything like this, I'm afraid.

knightflyte
03-02-2006, 09:02 AM
Where do I line up? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I'd buy one. I'd be willing to shell out the higher end bucks for it if it was done well and would last.

I've never tried the MS stick, but I WAS VERY happy with the FF effects of my first stick. Logitec. (was my LAST Logitec too.)

Saiteks EVO Force is a bit weaker than I'd like..... But if CH were to come out a FF HOTAS I'd pony up to the bar.

Hmmmmmmmmm....... I've been reading the CH forums, and 'DEBBIE' (marketing guru for CH)says they're working on something but can't divulge any information........ Hmmmmmmm do I dare hope for a FF stick????? Maybe E3 will give us great news of a CH FF HOTAS.

iroseland
03-02-2006, 09:15 AM
Hey,

allow me to dream here for a minute.

Force feedback
Blue tooth wireless
same functionality as the X52
Docking / recharge station


All of that = me willing to pay a pile of cash.

I would be in stick heaven. Even better if they could fit another two sliders on it someplace.


BSS_AIJO

Cosmonaut.
03-02-2006, 09:32 AM
I can€t believe there aren€t any serious FFB joysticks around.. heck there aren€t even **** ones anymore.. I mean my Xbox controller has FFB .. geezus even my Cell phone has FFB! It€s the best and most realistic way with in reason of letting you feel what your aircraft is doing. CH had a poll up on a future product line and FFB was doing quit well but an F18 throttle was edging ahead last time I checked.. I can€t believe a throttle control would out sell a FFB joystick made by CH .. but it looks like that€s what their gonna do.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

hugso
03-02-2006, 12:57 PM
I agree FFB is great and the more sensory inputs we get from the game the better. As I posted last November I have tapped the FFB signal from the motors in my joystick, filtered out the "stiffness" signal and fed the low frequency stuff via an amp to bass-shakers in my seat. It works really well. I feel the bumps of my wheels touching the runway,and the bumps bouncing along a grass strip, the shaking when you are about to stall, the vibrations when flying with the gear down etc. I also feed in the audio, and feel the engine vibration, guns and so on.

If anyone is interested I can post the circuit I used for the filter, the parts cost very little. The biggest expense being the amp and base shakers. And a fiddly job taking the joystick apart.

At present I am working on a pneumatic system that feeds bladders on my seat that gives an increase in pressure when the stick is pulled back and decrease as stick is pushed forward etc. Not quite increased and decreased G, but not bad. It works pretty well but is still under development - about Mark 8 at present- and getting better all the time. Again I can give more details if anyone is interested

Old_Canuck
03-02-2006, 01:11 PM
If the joystick has a solid center and if it fits into one of these ...
http://www.acesim.com/Mvc-008e.jpg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

http://www.acesim.com/ani3000o.gif

rnzoli
03-02-2006, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hugso:
I agree FFB is great and the more sensory inputs we get from the game the better. As I posted last November I have tapped the FFB signal from the motors in my joystick, filtered out the "stiffness" signal and fed the low frequency stuff via an amp to bass-shakers in my seat. It works really well. I feel the bumps of my wheels touching the runway,and the bumps bouncing along a grass strip, the shaking when you are about to stall, the vibrations when flying with the gear down etc. I also feed in the audio, and feel the engine vibration, guns and so on.

If anyone is interested I can post the circuit I used for the filter, the parts cost very little. The biggest expense being the amp and base shakers. And a fiddly job taking the joystick apart.

At present I am working on a pneumatic system that feeds bladders on my seat that gives an increase in pressure when the stick is pulled back and decrease as stick is pushed forward etc. Not quite increased and decreased G, but not bad. It works pretty well but is still under development - about Mark 8 at present- and getting better all the time. Again I can give more details if anyone is interested </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember your post (you burnt an FFB motor accidentally, too) and interested, because this is addressing the main problem with current FFB sticks. Namely: it is unrealistic that all FFB comes from the stick alone. The stick and pedal should only give variable tension according to airspeed, angle of attack etc. But it is ridiculous, that stall shake, overspeed turbulance and gun recoil shakes the main stick as well. It should in fact shake the seat under us, like in your setup.

Cosmonaut.
03-02-2006, 03:31 PM
Hi Hugso, got any pics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

FFB isn€t suppose to represent everything that a pilot would feel while holding his stick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ..but it is suppose to simulate the forces that would be felt in the surrounding cockpit.. seat of the pants if you will. The only other way to experience this would be to have to spend thousands on a walk in simulator or build one like hugso has done, although not everyone has the time, know how or motivation to do something like that. IMO a FFB joystick simulates very accurately the feeling of being in a cockpit in the most cost effective and practical way possible for even the most die hard of flightsimmer.

Z4K
03-03-2006, 03:45 AM
I've seen FFB mods for the Cougar.

Big dollars, don't know of anyone buying one, no idea if they're any good - or even still available.

hugso
03-03-2006, 02:22 PM
A couple of photos of my setup. Cheapo office chair. A pair of bass shakers on back. (fairly cheap via Ebay). A Clarkson speaker under the seat (rather dear, probably just as good to use one bass shaker under seat and one on the back). Fairly powerful amp and simple mixer, very cheap and simple pre-amp and home-made filters. (Circuit I used enclosed). I wish someone would supply a FFB Stick and FFB rudder bar with plenty of stiffness feedback, and, separately, a de-coder to supply all the bumping and shaking to feed into your seat. I guess the market would be far too small to justify production, it would only be a handful of nutcases like me would bother. Anyway, my set up does work surprisingly well, and I would not like to be without it.

The pneumatics I will leave until further refined.http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/hugso/122_2278.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/hugso/122_2281.jpg
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d113/hugso/scan.jpg

DD_crash
10-19-2007, 09:24 AM
Any news Bearcat? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

erco415
10-19-2007, 09:41 AM
Yeah, I'm dying to pick up a HOTAS, but I'm gonna wait til a firm go/nogo on the FFB HOTAS. Any news?

249th_Maico
10-19-2007, 11:14 PM
After taking advice in these forums I have bought 3 MS FFB2. The Saitek Evo Force was good, but not as good as the MS. The CH Fighterstick was as akward as your first time in a BMW. Its chunky and clunky. The X-52 is the king of programing and the best throttle and buttons I can put my hands on. The Joystick is well.... Not great. However, if Saitek made a Force Feedback (Lets call it the X-75) with the features of the X-52 plus force feedback..... WOW! I immagine myself pre-ordering NOW. In my perfect world it would look the part yet not loose the functionality of thier current stick. Plus it would be covered by a warranty and include a combat flying booklet... Ok, maybe thats a bit much. Seriously, how has this market not been filled? I would say, Saitek just does not care to make money......

Bearcat99
10-19-2007, 11:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DD_crash:
Any news Bearcat? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nothing yet.. however Saitek has some other new stuff of intrest coming out soon.... They are making a multifunction panel....

If they could come up with a FFB stick as sturdy as the MSFFB2.. with the programmability of the SST software... it would be great. I still haver a MSFFB2 in my closet unused.. and the one I am using is my old back up stick that I started using when FB came out and I installed IL2 on my sons PC... the original still works.

DD_crash
10-20-2007, 09:37 AM
Thanks for the info BC Oh well it looks like a long wait http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

TheFamilyMan
09-18-2009, 03:06 PM
I might get one someday though I've never tried a FFB 'stick. My squad members are split on their usefulness/fidelity. I definately would have to give one a try before dropping $200 or more on a FFB HOTAS.

Seeing that the reality is arriving I had to dredge this poll up once I found it...no need in making a new poll for one that already exists...

Tully__
09-18-2009, 06:53 PM
There are actually several much more recent threads on this. In particular, there's Bearcat's "expression of interest" thread for a Saitek FFB HOTAS and the thread discussing the new Logitech FFB HOTAS.

TheFamilyMan
09-20-2009, 08:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
There are actually several much more recent threads on this. In particular, there's Bearcat's "expression of interest" thread for a Saitek FFB HOTAS and the thread discussing the new Logitech FFB HOTAS. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Uh...I knew that before I dug this poll up. I thought it added color and heritage to the current FFB discussions to show just how long the arrival of such HOTAS products have been anticipated, and also being such a noob around here comparatively, I thought others such as myself might better appreciate the gravity of these historic times by seeing (and possibly participating in) this poll. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif