PDA

View Full Version : KI-61 = Junk? opinions



Phobia337
04-02-2008, 08:18 AM
Hey guys,

Let me tell you about our experience last night in Zeke vs Wildscats.

I got my dad into the game about 6 months ago and now he has a whole SIM-PIT he is soo into the game we fly every night on Zekes vs Wildcats.

Well last night we choose the Jap side and choose the ugly pink KI-61. We took off and got on our heading towards the front line. This is when we both noticed just how WEAK the engine is on it. Terrible climb rate, easily over heats even at 95% or above.

We were going againt what I can only guess was P-38's and P-40s. I am about 90% one was the p-38 with the twin tails. They had two guys flying these and were extremely tough to deal with.

Now knowing we needed to force them into a turn fight which would be very tough. One of us would get on the tail of one of them, but their twin engine would easily out run us, so the other one of us would either set up far left or right to get some defection shots as they made big looping turns to out run the plane on their six.

I nailed one on his right alieron with a cannon round and watched as the alieron went flipping past me and his plane banked into a hard right hand dive. Thinking I had him for sure but to make sure I followed him down but he managed to use enough rudder just in time scrapping the tree tops and leveling off and out running me back for his base. So I broke off and headed back for where my dad was in a turn battle with what I believe was a P-40 but I could be very wrong. I manage to rip his tail but by him getting tunnel vision on my dad.

That was the last of the good experiences with this plane. The next 2 or 3 hours was spent complaining just how terrible this plane was.

Weak engine, Easily over heats, and breaks easily. Which the breaks easily is not a problem with me since that is a very common jap plane issue.

My question, in this situation. How would you have handled these guys with this plane????

They would fly at tree top level and with their powerful engines would set up UNDER you and climb under your nose and shoot you from under. This is completely backwards to what I am used to online. Most people get big height and dive in on people. Our first couple fly outs, we would climb to around 3 to 4000 meters. but no one was up their. They were flying VERY low. So we drop our height to 2000 Meters so we could still attack above if needed and still dive in on the low aircraft. Well with them setting up so low and climbing in under to attack through me off.

Their aircraft can just take a beating before going down. So they forced many head on passes which resulted in alot of flaming deaths http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Snap rolls help avoid many passes but could never close the gap to get shots off to bring them down. We normally fly American planes so we were not used to these jap planes.

Any tips buddies?

Thanks guys
PHOBIA

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-02-2008, 08:56 AM
The Ki-61 is hands-down one of my favorite IJA aircraft (especially the hei...the otsu is only ok). The main thing to remember is to fly it as you would a 1941 109E or F. It's actually a really good energy fighter and can dive much better than any other early Japanese aircraft (much to the surprise of many an Allied pilot).

Keep your airspeed, try to gain altitude over your enemy and dive on them when you can. Turn inside them when they get on your six as they will either have to scrub their speed advantage to try to stay with you or break off...and use good wingman tactics whenever possible. Flying alone will only get you killed 90% of the time.

cawimmer430
04-02-2008, 09:35 AM
I generally like the Ki-61, but I think the thing that annoys me the most about it is the weak armament and small ammo load.


PS: Your dad is cool! My dad doesn't even know how to use a computer! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Phobia337
04-02-2008, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
The Ki-61 is hands-down one of my favorite IJA aircraft (especially the hei...the otsu is only ok). The main thing to remember is to fly it as you would a 1941 109E or F. It's actually a really good energy fighter and can dive much better than any other early Japanese aircraft (much to the surprise of many an Allied pilot).

Keep your airspeed, try to gain altitude over your enemy and dive on them when you can. Turn inside them when they get on your six as they will either have to scrub their speed advantage to try to stay with you or break off...and use good wingman tactics whenever possible. Flying alone will only get you killed 90% of the time.

Well we started out energy fighting them. But once you dive in on them. They would use their powerful engine to put so much distance between them and us after we climbed back up. That lossing them blending in to the tree tops at long distance became a problem.

So that was when we dropped our height and started flying about 1500 Meters above them. PLENTY enough room to still drop on them. BUT those twin engines had so much power 1 pass was all you got. With the light MGs if u did not connect with a cannon they were NOT going down. Then even sometimes a cannon round still could not bring them down like the example of the right aleiron being torn off and still him getting home.

LEBillfish
04-02-2008, 09:55 AM
Pink Ki-61?....Overheats?....Are you sure you're talking the Ki-61?

First off, assuming you're talking "cannon & pink (for that we'll assume your colors are off it being brown)"....I'm going to guess you were in the Ki-61-I-Hei.

Now it is just slightly less the performer of the others due to the added weight of the cannon. However it does have a fire extinguisher (though wrong in the sim as it would flood the fuel system). If I set Radiator to 4, as I've never tried 2, I can run all night long at 95% throttle and 85-90% prop pitch.......all night.....and never overheat.

It dives better then most allied planes (watch for the imbalanced against it blackout on pullout), turns MUCH better then most though no where near what it was claimed to, climbs better then most, and is relatively fast able to keep close to most allied mid war fighters and has a very good field of view.

What its real failings are, is its light armament, and most of all its bullet magnet engine (a sim issue...as I've had them take a single shot to the rear fuselage from a 90 deg deflection, and yet still had the engine get hit....How or why your guess as good as any)....Plus the windscreen oiling is all wrong.

Anywho....If not fighting climb. Get alt. dive in on your prey and nail them then zoom climb back up to do it again. If they begin to turn and there are no others about Z&B'g the turner bait...Turn with him, you'll retain E much better. Split S to evade, nothing can follow that's allied, and don't waste your ammo on the tail, go for engines, wing roots and control surfaces, lastly the cockpit.

Run at 85% PP when cruising "in action", 90% when in a fight. Do not fear bumping throttle to 105% during brief periods, set your radiator to 4 and leave it alone.....Lastly elevator trim down 18-20 clicks.

The Ki-61-I is a perfect blend of T&B and Z&B...You have the best of both worlds, so make them fight your fight.

.....and once more, my own personal policy.....If I'm not fighting I'm climbing.

K2

Phobia337
04-02-2008, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by cawimmer430:
I generally like the Ki-61, but I think the thing that annoys me the most about it is the weak armament and small ammo load.


PS: Your dad is cool! My dad doesn't even know how to use a computer! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
My dad builds gaming comuters so I always had a top notch system. Plus he plays a ton of different games.

At the moment we are playing
Sins of a Solar Empire
Company of heros
Call of duty 4
IL-2
and was playing GRAW 2 but we slacked off.

Yea he is cool, He is in his 50s. I am in my late 20s and it is funny as hell to hear him so excitied over teamspeak. "OHHHHHH he is on me, ohhhhhh I am hit, I am hit son, I am going down, NOOOOO I pulled out. I am going to land this puppy". I laugh so hard listening to him get so involved.

I have one really funny story that relates to this forum and him. I read on here some where that some of the flat spins are almost impossible to get out of and that one guy had success, turning the engine off to kill the engine rotation and then trying to get the nose down to get some lift.

Well we were flying the Coral sea mission and we were very high. Like 6000 Meters. All I heard was "**** I am in a spin son!!!!!! Gunts and Moans and the stick banging about, I....I....I..I Can't get outttttt. I am going down!!!!" I told him over the mic, Kill engine and try that. "I am coming up on the sea floor........I am getting out, holly ****.........I pulled out at 20 meters from the ocean......I made it out....I F@@@ing made it out....YEAAAAAAAA"

I laughed soo hard hearing him grunting and moaning fighting the plane.

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-02-2008, 10:18 AM
lmao...awesome.

Phobia337
04-02-2008, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Pink Ki-61?....Overheats?....Are you sure you're talking the Ki-61?

First off, assuming you're talking "cannon & pink (for that we'll assume your colors are off it being brown)"....I'm going to guess you were in the Ki-61-I-Hei.

Now it is just slightly less the performer of the others due to the added weight of the cannon. However it does have a fire extinguisher (though wrong in the sim as it would flood the fuel system). If I set Radiator to 4, as I've never tried 2, I can run all night long at 95% throttle and 85-90% prop pitch.......all night.....and never overheat.

It dives better then most allied planes (watch for the imbalanced against it blackout on pullout), turns MUCH better then most though no where near what it was claimed to, climbs better then most, and is relatively fast able to keep close to most allied mid war fighters and has a very good field of view.

What its real failings are, is its light armament, and most of all its bullet magnet engine (a sim issue...as I've had them take a single shot to the rear fuselage from a 90 deg deflection, and yet still had the engine get hit....How or why your guess as good as any)....Plus the windscreen oiling is all wrong.

Anywho....If not fighting climb. Get alt. dive in on your prey and nail them then zoom climb back up to do it again. If they begin to turn and there are no others about Z&B'g the turner bait...Turn with him, you'll retain E much better. Split S to evade, nothing can follow that's allied, and don't waste your ammo on the tail, go for engines, wing roots and control surfaces, lastly the cockpit.

Run at 85% PP when cruising "in action", 90% when in a fight. Do not fear bumping throttle to 105% during brief periods, set your radiator to 4 and leave it alone.....Lastly elevator trim down 18-20 clicks.

The Ki-61-I is a perfect blend of T&B and Z&B...You have the best of both worlds, so make them fight your fight.

.....and once more, my own personal policy.....If I'm not fighting I'm climbing.

K2

If my colors are off I am unaware since I usea color correction software and everything looks fine in all games and programs on my system. But it does appear pink-ish.

This is the plane http://webzoom.freewebs.com/gregboyington/Skins/Ki-61/K...t%20Tadao%20Sumi.jpg (http://webzoom.freewebs.com/gregboyington/Skins/Ki-61/Ki-61-I-Hei%20244thS%201stC%20Sgt%20Tadao%20Sumi.jpg) But mine does appear more PINK-ISH than this pic aswell so maybe I need to check my colors again.

I tend to use the small MG just to locate the angle of deflection to hit target then pop a few cannon rounds. Which normally results in a connection and can bring down MOST fighters.

I tend to do alot of boom and zoom depending on plane of course. But I have just had zero luck with the KI-61. I just don't see the climb rate you all are talking about. Energy down is great but the return energy for the climb just does not cut it.

It could be my complete lack of flying experience with the Jap planes. We fly Hellcats, Wildcats, Thunderbolts pretty much only. They can take a beating and are excellent at Boom and zoom. The thunderbolt being my fav. Very heavy and the excellent stopping power of these fighters make it my first choice. But I been trying to learn the Jap planes. They can't take fire that is for sure.

mortoma
04-02-2008, 10:46 AM
The KI-61 we have in game is supposedly too slow, which does not help much. But judging by your description of events you must be a decent pilot to even do that well in it. especially against those fast P-38s.

LEBillfish
04-02-2008, 10:55 AM
That plane looks like bare (dirty) aluminum to me.....No pink I can see...........and if you're taking hits, you goofed up as in any plane 1 can kill you.

The Japanese had a very specific mindset about combat.
When Attacking, attack fully as though it's the only chance you'll get.
When being attacked, attack.
When trying to evade, Split-S then, attack.
When he's on your 6, attack.
When against greater numbers, attack.
When being pursued, attack.
When out of ammo, attack.
When wounded, attack.
When damaged, attack.

See a trend?.....They could not run, they could evade yet a smart patient opponent will quickly figure you out. When out of ammo even, attack as they may very well run, and in the worst of cases you still have your plane to land the mighty karate chop. You can't afford to take hits, so ALWAYS be on the offensive making them be defensive....As if they are evading or running their guns are pointed away from you.

Lastly....If you can't do it for yourself, or your teammates, do it for the virtual Emperor, it's his plane, and he's already said what you're to do with it......ATTACK!

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">万*三唱 Banzaisanshou!!!

万*!!! 万*!!! 万*!!!</span>

K2

Tater-SW-
04-02-2008, 11:41 AM
That doctrine (#1 Attack, if in a position that isn't ideal for #1, see #1 and attack anyway) might have been true early, but I've also read many accounts of them just circling and deciding today might not be the best day to fight, lol.

BTW, LEBillfish, the pink vs brown thing... I'm convinced that males' lack of ability with colors is why camouflage works http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I said something my daughter (4) had on was pink, and she insisted it was purple, and followed up with "Don't argue with women!" Yes, ma'am.

tater

DKoor
04-02-2008, 12:14 PM
Ki-61 sure is outclassed heavily in the game if you fly late war.
I wont even comment Ki-61 without cannons in late war environment. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Phobia337
04-02-2008, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
The KI-61 we have in game is supposedly too slow, which does not help much. But judging by your description of events you must be a decent pilot to even do that well in it. especially against those fast P-38s.

I have been playing IL-2 since the day it came out soooo it has been many years http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I am not a ace like some guys I have flown against BUT I can hold my own and put as much as possible in my favor as for as what are the best abilities for each plane. But some planes are just better than others and I think the certain mission that was being flown had us as the under dogs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Guessing which way the P-38s were going to break and then keep one of us on his tail so he was always looking back trying to find us the other would loop around for the cut off. Got quite a few good shots. A couple were not so great, cutting them off to much and them coming in head on is a death wish in those lightly armed planes.

But all in all I think we maintained well. We forced some planes home to land and each got a couple kills for the night. But those 2 P-38s flying together were quite a excellent pair.

Now I did jump two Zeros the other night that I was pretty impressed with how it played out.

We were coming head on towards each other. I was alone and they had a lead with a wingman about .30 behind him. I had a huge height advantage and they never saw me coming. Right when I got dead over them I flipped upside down and pulled back on the stick to start a steep dive right down behind them at a high rate of speed. They never heard me coming and I opened up on the wingman with my 50s and right when I shreaded him up he broken left and they must have been on teamspeak because the lead man broke right as soon as I hit the wingman. I then zoomed past the wingman and nailed the lead man and pulled into a climb.

I was quite impressed with these kills as it felt like the history channel http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif lol

Later guys
PHOBIA

ALSO thanks for all the tips.

Tater-SW-
04-02-2008, 12:37 PM
One thing to consider with how planes pan out in game is flight times... Imagine you leave from Torokina, Bougainville in a F4U-1A, and fly to New Britain or New Ireland. You've got to really pay attention to your fuel state, and even a slight "ping" from an enemy aircraft means you might not make the few hour flight home.

Certainly the IJAAF/IJNAF has a little "home field advantage" for many battles in the SWPA, even if they are less capable.

One way you can tell if you are fighting a scary japanese pilot in il-2 is if they go straight for the TnB fight, or if they energy fight you. In the latter case, it might be a long fight.

The MG armed TOny suffers from having the same M2 gun as the US planes. Didn't the IJAAF belt their 0.50 cal with mostly HE? (it's identical to the US 50 cal in il-2).

LEBillfish
04-02-2008, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
That doctrine (#1 Attack, if in a position that isn't ideal for #1, see #1 and attack anyway) might have been true early, but I've also read many accounts of them just circling and deciding today might not be the best day to fight

I'm not so sure if that is the case, or more that the old vets had been slowly wiped out. What that leaves is a bunch of though enthusiastic, scared, inexperienced, lack of confidence (as the old vets had just walked all over everyone...So deserved or not, most likely felt rather confident. The new guys most likely learned rather quickly from others the situation, that alone making most question the outcome)...and so on.

IOW, since pairs or even flight tactics and training were lacking, my guess is often the "swirling swarms" were more a bunch of noobs having no idea what to do. We even see this in our sim, those without experience often swirling around a fight, jumping in at the worst time, and not when needed most. Our old vets "seeming" to get in and get out at always the right time with great results others seem to struggle for, yet in truth have just instinctively learned how to react and when to what.

K2

DKoor
04-02-2008, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
One thing to consider with how planes pan out in game is flight times... Imagine you leave from Torokina, Bougainville in a F4U-1A, and fly to New Britain or New Ireland. You've got to really pay attention to your fuel state, and even a slight "ping" from an enemy aircraft means you might not make the few hour flight home.

Certainly the IJAAF/IJNAF has a little "home field advantage" for many battles in the SWPA, even if they are less capable.

One way you can tell if you are fighting a scary japanese pilot in il-2 is if they go straight for the TnB fight, or if they energy fight you. In the latter case, it might be a long fight.

The MG armed TOny suffers from having the same M2 gun as the US planes. Didn't the IJAAF belt their 0.50 cal with mostly HE? (it's identical to the US 50 cal in il-2). +1

Many US fliers died a horrible death having to bail out somewhere in the vast sea and floating for many hours before inevitable happens.

Although not immune from this, JAAF probably had small amount of advantage in this in late war when battles were fought over Japanese home islands.

That's why I alway have ironic smile on my lips when I bail out in the game and if I'm over "our lines" I'm "saved"......

Tater-SW-
04-02-2008, 12:53 PM
Yeah, I agree on the "noob" pilots. Just saying that it wasn't always attack, attack, attack, they did luftberry circles, too.

Relative balance of forces was probably also a big factor. If it was justa squadron of Allied planes, that might elicit pure attack, but if there were several squadrons around to your one... today might not be the best day to come out and play http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I don;t class that as being a noob, though, I call that intelligent decision making. It's like climbing, it's always tough to decide you need to go down and not summit, and the guys who get killed are usually the ones that fail to make the proper "live to fight another day" choice.

tater

Phobia337
04-02-2008, 12:55 PM
We even see this in our sim, those without experience often swirling around a fight, jumping in at the worst time, and not when needed most. Our old vets "seeming" to get in and get out at always the right time with great results others seem to struggle for, yet in truth have just instinctively learned how to react and when to what.

I completely agree and this is one of the better examples I have seen on here on this subject.

Many newer pilots in our sim you will see them come in at wrong angles, wrong times, wrong targets. Were you can tell almost instantly when you are up against a skilled pilot just by the way he chooses his targets, setup, ect.

I have seen many times circling above a group of planes dogfighting. Trying to get a bearing on a target and setup my attack angle and some rookie comes flying in between the enemy and a friendly causing more problems than helping and normally get shot down pretty quick.

LEBillfish
04-02-2008, 01:00 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
The MG armed TOny suffers from having the same M2 gun as the US planes. Didn't the IJAAF belt their 0.50 cal with mostly HE? (it's identical to the US 50 cal in il-2).

Well, they were roughly the same gun, yet the Japanese ammunition was actually quite lacking. Wherein the U.S. ammo was really more shell then slug, the japanese rounds on average were much more slug then shell. In kind, and speaking as to the lighter caliber rounds though it may apply to the larger as well....Japanese HE rounds had a bad habit of detonating on contact, so imagine them exploding the second they touch the thin skin. The force more often then not working against the desired effect. A good way to explain it being the firecracker going off on your open palm, or in your closed fist.

K2

Tater-SW-
04-02-2008, 01:03 PM
I meant in game. They are identical svae for different tracer color. Maybe they do better in game with APIT-AP-HE-AP-HE than they would with real japanese ammo, ROF, etc.

Tater-SW-
04-02-2008, 01:04 PM
BTW, were any Ki-61 based on Bougainville, or just New Ireland/New Britain?

LEBillfish
04-02-2008, 01:17 PM
Those in New Britain were only 2 chuutai of the 68th Hikousentai. Staitioned there initially I believe at Vanakanu, it's my understanding they were primarily to train newer pilots and my guess is mostly so the 14th Hikoudan kept a presence there.....All combat east into the Solomons was really just a one shot deal. I'd have to look into specifics more, yet the Solomons was the IJN's bag, New guinea and New Britain more the IJAFC's though the Navy still was a significant force there as well (N.B.).

The Wewak complex of bases, then Hollandia and points west during the retreat the primary of the 4th Koukuugun. (though there were scattered navy seaplane bases, even in the islands just off Wewak's coast.)

Phobia337
04-02-2008, 01:26 PM
really interesting stuff guys. I love reading this kind of stuff.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Tater-SW-
04-02-2008, 01:40 PM
There is a Ki-43 wreck on Ballale.

Phobia337
04-02-2008, 02:17 PM
Ok got a question for you Zero pilots like FISH.

What is the best way for a ZERO to battle a F4F4 that is Boom-n-Zoom on him. What do you do?

I normally start a climb and hope my flying skils and give me a advantage in the end. I wait for them to setup above me. I watch them rotate over and start their dive. I predict when they are going to open up their guns and I snap rolling sliding out to the side of their rounds and hoping they miss. Then I start a climb again. After a pass or two I can normally get enough ALT to take the fight to them.

I think some pilots would dive for the deck, but I am afraid the zeros poor dive rate would end you getting caught from behind and a ball of flames.

what would yall do?

Tater-SW-
04-02-2008, 02:26 PM
If I'm in a Zero or Oscar and I'm attacked by planes with superior E states, that is what I do. Climbing, I break turn and throw off their shots hoping the will follow my turn too far. I tend to start a turn early, though, I want them to see me turning, and start to pull lead, but I tighten the turn on them.

Each pass they will bleed some E. If you make them blow a few passes, they tend to get POed and try to more aggressively pull lead on you, too. Eventually they are wallowing along and you can get close and put a small burst in the cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Phobia337
04-02-2008, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
If I'm in a Zero or Oscar and I'm attacked by planes with superior E states, that is what I do. Climbing, I break turn and throw off their shots hoping the will follow my turn too far. I tend to start a turn early, though, I want them to see me turning, and start to pull lead, but I tighten the turn on them.

Each pass they will bleed some E. If you make them blow a few passes, they tend to get POed and try to more aggressively pull lead on you, too. Eventually they are wallowing along and you can get close and put a small burst in the cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Agreed! I just wanna see what others do in this situation. Now if I am in a heavier plane and feel as if I am in a lossing state then I will dive away and live http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-02-2008, 05:39 PM
I fly the Tony like I do a 109 and find it to be a terrific aircraft and a far cry from junk.

S~

LEBillfish
04-02-2008, 06:01 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
There is a Ki-43 wreck on Ballale.

Yes, from the raid on Guadalcanal, and you'll also note "a" Ki-61 of the 68th and a few Ki-43 of the 1st Hikousentai were lost over Rendova early July, 43. Inconsequential single missions, and one time ventures do not make setting up shop to defend an area......You'll also note between Truk and Rabaul the IJAFC ferried aircraft often, losing many. DOesn't mean they as a group though fought to defend that corridor.

Do a search, you'll find IJAFC far east at times. Yet nothing to consider them any more then an occasional presence.

K2

LEBillfish
04-02-2008, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by Phobia337:
What is the best way for a ZERO to battle a F4F4 that is Boom-n-Zoom on him. What do you do?

Well, sadly the Zero doesn't roll like it should...Though to be fair, NO plane here rolls like it should except for a couple.

Anywho, upon spotting him, I'm going to follow ALWAYS Boelke's dikta, and turn into him taking him head on. However, I'm going to at the last moment hard stick forward to dive.

Now a "smart" opponent, which few do well on this first pass, will simply pull up and re-setup.....However, 99% try and increase their dive to get me. They can't as now it is a pure deflection shot getting worse by the second. as I'm passing under them.

At this point they're fast, really fast....and what they do next determines my next move (remember, i'm attacking NOT evading so setting them up).

No matter what at this point we are now level or I have more altitude. IF they are semi-clever and roll to follow me, I'm going to split-S and I can assure you they will not be able to roll again, and I'll pass over with a clear altitude advantage and set up for my dive on them now pursuing (as I can assure you NONE thus far have simply just said "forget this I'm gone" and run).

If he does not roll he'll find himself almost vertical, and unable to climb out easy. Again I'll split-S but wait, or even climb hard vertically reversing, yet I'll hold and wait to catch him in his climb as he'll burn E quick.

Really 1 on 1, the F4F is in a very tight spot...I'm close to as fast as him, have guns be they the light or cannon that can drop him, and really in so many ways if he fails his pass yet "presses it" not retaining his advantage have him.

Naturally if he turns he's doomed.....

There was a rule many of the 5th AirForce pilots made when encountering the Japanese that quickly was modified.....

1. Never follow a Japanese fighter through more then 360 degrees of a turn......
2. Never follow a Japanese fighter through more then 270 degrees of a turn......
3. Never follow a Japanese fighter through more then 180 degrees of a turn......
4. Never follow a Japanese fighter through more then 90 degrees of a turn......
and for some 5. Never follow a Japanese fighter through a turn......

All of the "aces" I've read about that broke this rule perished.......Yet what they don't talk about is IF you zoom in, pull up while still above, nose over then "roll" not turn to adjust and repeat...WHile the other guy turns you can just pick away at him pass after pass and so fast it seems like turn fighting.

So use the vertical yet keep the advantage.

K2

Tater-SW-
04-02-2008, 06:52 PM
Yeah, I agree. 1v1 I'm perfectly confident in a zero or even an oscar vs most targets. Once it's a group, then it gets ugly, even a equal group on both sides since the japanese planes cannot take even a single passing snapshot in a furball (we'll, they CAN, but I operate like they cannot).

LEBillfish
04-02-2008, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Yeah, I agree. 1v1 I'm perfectly confident in a zero or even an oscar vs most targets. Once it's a group, then it gets ugly, even a equal group on both sides since the japanese planes cannot take even a single passing snapshot in a furball (we'll, they CAN, but I operate like they cannot).

Well no matter the plane....I don't care if I'm in a 190A9 gunned to the gills vs. Ki-27....When I'm in a crowd, I never try and force (keep going after an opponent) to get a wings off type of kill.

In that situation which I tend to do well in...I took my handle from how I fly...That being like a Billfish hunts.

I set up an advantage over the whole group, then patiently try and work them into a ball...At that point I slash through wounding or killing as many in the pass as I encounter....Yet as each is incapacitated, I let them be. I then move onto the next fresh and try to kill or cripple in single passes as many as I can.

Yea sure others and AI get a lot of the kill points....Yet in the end, I killed them, yet most of all, then I at my leisure can simply pick them off one at a time....Quite often their planes running out of fuel, burning, or dying in some form or another before I can get to them.

NEVER in a fight of 2 or more fixate...Hurt them all, then finish them at will.

K2

JtD
04-03-2008, 10:02 AM
Back to the original question, yes, the Ki-61 is junk. It wouldn't be if it was a 1941 plane, but as it is 1943 it is a hopeless case. I only fly it because I like it a lot.

LuftWulf190
04-03-2008, 11:22 AM
The Tony is actually a pretty good fighter over all. I like to fly it when ever I get the chance. The only weak points on it being it's light armament. Over all I can survive better in a Ki-61 then in either a Zero or a Ki-43.

Now when playing with a Ki-100, same tactics apply as to the Ki-61. Altitude is your friend. Last time I flew the Ki-100, I got in to a high speed rolling, and turning fight with a La-7. I was able to keep pace with him the entire time, and he came up with the short end. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Phobia337
04-03-2008, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tater-SW-:
Yeah, I agree. 1v1 I'm perfectly confident in a zero or even an oscar vs most targets. Once it's a group, then it gets ugly, even a equal group on both sides since the japanese planes cannot take even a single passing snapshot in a furball (we'll, they CAN, but I operate like they cannot).

Well no matter the plane....I don't care if I'm in a 190A9 gunned to the gills vs. Ki-27....When I'm in a crowd, I never try and force (keep going after an opponent) to get a wings off type of kill.

In that situation which I tend to do well in...I took my handle from how I fly...That being like a Billfish hunts.

I set up an advantage over the whole group, then patiently try and work them into a ball...At that point I slash through wounding or killing as many in the pass as I encounter....Yet as each is incapacitated, I let them be. I then move onto the next fresh and try to kill or cripple in single passes as many as I can.

Yea sure others and AI get a lot of the kill points....Yet in the end, I killed them, yet most of all, then I at my leisure can simply pick them off one at a time....Quite often their planes running out of fuel, burning, or dying in some form or another before I can get to them.

NEVER in a fight of 2 or more fixate...Hurt them all, then finish them at will.

K2 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My general style is similar to yours aswell. Depending on the plane, I am more of a slasher. I make a pass hit the enemy and get ALT and setup high above watching and figuring out how bad they are struggling to keep it airborn or if they are trying to make a run for it. If they are smoking badly. I general setup above them and follow them letting the smoke bring in more prey http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Like moths to the flame the come in to set if it is a enemy or friendly and then swoop down when they think it is all safe-n-clear and bring the pain to another.

That tends to be my general style BUT there are times you need to adjust and change tactics depending on who you are flying against. Like the tree top huggers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dive in and throw a 2 sec burst through the canopy and they will turn and run quicker than you can climb back up. But the skies are free of 1 more plane.

Longbows1977
04-25-2008, 02:29 AM
Well, the worst problem of ki-61 is poor backward visibility. This can make scissors difficult and you can get jumped easily...

The only way how to get p-38 is high speed attack from above. Even at the best speed Lightning is about 50 kph faster. It can literally fly in circles around you...

DKoor
04-25-2008, 08:14 AM
Ki-61 has lower rear visibility yes, but then again loads of planes suffer from the same problem, Tempest being king of all of them.
However Ki-61 will always suffer more from this deficiency because it is not nearly as fast as contemporary US crates.

DustyBarrels77
04-26-2008, 10:53 AM
While the ki61 is slower then it should be as many ac in game, I think its still an excellent ac that can win against many human pilots team work 4-5 vs 1 when flying as a loner. To me its like a faster p40E with cannon making it such a great plane. Plus the thing can absorb so many hits like the russian and german planes in game.

The raiden is like that too superstrong like german russian damage models. I like the ki61 alot especially for the fighter or bomber role. It also holds its E extremely well in the BnZ where you can out run the heavy faster ac in the dive unlike reality its olegs very bad e management that makes this ac win in that catagory as well.

The closest fights in game are russian vs german and latewar japanese vs russian or german (but thats a ufo category of its own) i think on the pt0 side the fight is very close between the ki61 vs p40/p39 but the ki61 holds the slight advantage in retaining its bnz speeds for much longer where the americant ac will bleed off there e much quicker when flying right and extending trying to run from the bnz. Maddox physics emc2=youiswrong