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View Full Version : A great book - I highly recommend it



SkyChimp
12-31-2005, 05:14 PM
This morning I bought A MiG-15 to Freedom by No ***-Sok, the North Korean pilot that defected with his MiG-15 to UN forces, and eventually became a US citizen.

Wow, this is among the most interesting books I've read. FULL of descriptions of actions over Korea from the communist perspective. He seems a lot more objective and a lot less biased about the communist achievement over Korea. He gives great first hand accounts of how the MiG-15 performed, how the Americans fought back, and how well each side did according to what he witnessed. He gives a chilling account of how a member of his training unit was executed for saying out loud that he would rather defect than fight the Americans in a Yak-9. He talks about how his unit members lied about their aerial victories for fear of punishment for underperforming. He also talks about the members of his unit that were apparently executed after his defection.

Really an interesting read. I recommend it highly.

http://aeroplanebooks.com/productcart/pc/catalog/mig-15tofreedom_2234_thumb.gif

Bearcat99
12-31-2005, 06:26 PM
Sounds like a keeper to me.

Xiolablu3
12-31-2005, 06:59 PM
Thanks SC will keep an eye out for this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Enforcer572005
12-31-2005, 07:51 PM
yea, gotta find this. I saw him interviewed on the history channel.....very impressive man.

Viking-S
12-31-2005, 11:42 PM
Interesting but who wrote it?
Books and information from cold war era should be disregarded or taken with HUGE pinch of salt.

Tully__
01-01-2006, 12:28 AM
Originally posted by Viking-S:
Interesting but who wrote it?



...by No ***-Sok, the North Korean pilot that defected with his MiG-15 to UN forces...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

woofiedog
01-01-2006, 02:32 AM
link: http://www.psywarrior.com/Moolah.html

In Nov. 1950 when the Russian-built MiG-15 was introduced into battle by the Communists, U.N. forces were startled by its advanced design and exceptional performance and hoped one of the planes could be acquired for technical analysis and flight evaluation. However, MiG-15 pilots were very careful not to fly over U.N. territory where they might be forced down.

In Apr. 1953, the U.S. Far East Command made an offer of $100,000 for the first MiG-15 delivered intact. No enemy pilot took advantage of this offer and when the Korean Truce went into effect on July 27, 1953, the U.N. still had not acquired a MiG-15 for flight-testing.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/mig15-4.jpg

On Sep. 21, 1953, personnel at Kimpo Air Base near Seoul, Korea were surprised to see a MiG-15 suddenly land downwind and roll to a stop. The plane was piloted by a 21-year old Senior Lt. *** Sok No of the North Korean Air Force who had decided to fly to South Korea because he "was sick and tired of the red deceit."

Shortly after landing at Kimpo AB, the young pilot not only learned of the $100,000 reward, but also that his mother had been safely evacuated from North to South Korea in 1951 and that she was still alive and well.

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/mig15-1.jpg

The MiG-15 was taken to Okinawa where it was first flown by Wright Field Test Pilot, Capt. H.E. "Tom" Collins. Subsequent test flights were made by Capt. Collins and Maj. C.E. "Chuck" Yeager. The airplane was next disassembled and airlifted to Wright-Patterson AFB in Dec. 1953 where it was reassembled and given exhaustive flight-testing. The U.S. then offered to return the MiG to its rightful owners but when no country claimed the plane, it was transferred to the USAF Museum in 1957.

At his request, No came to the States, changed his name, and became a U.S. citizen. He graduated from the University of Delaware, he was joined by his mother, and he was married. Interestingly, just below the gunsight on Lt. No's MiG-15 was the following admonition in red Korean characters: "Pour out and zero in this vindictive ammunition to the **** Yankees."

http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/mig15-2.jpg

Sergio_101
01-01-2006, 08:40 AM
Outstanding book, a bit of a choppy read though.
Given the current wave of anti American revisionism
the book's contents will be challenged and lampooned
if posted in this forum.
No gives you the feeling that things were going
very badly for the PDRK. (to say the least)

Sergio

SkyChimp
01-01-2006, 09:40 AM
First thing he did when he landed was rip the framed photo of Kim Il Sung from the insturment panel and smash it on the tarmac. He was greeted so warmly by the Americans that they didn't even ask for his sidearm until he was well on his way to see the base commander.

blairgowrie
01-01-2006, 09:47 AM
Thanks for the recommendation SkyChimp. I think that would be a very interesting read. I'll certainly get it. And thanks for your interesting post woofiedog. As always you have the right goods.

SkyChimp
01-01-2006, 12:42 PM
Most interesting, he seems to lay to rest the claims made by the Soviets that they bested the Sabres in combat. He comments on several occassions about the unequal beatings Pepelyaev's pilots took from the Sabres.

BfHeFwMe
01-01-2006, 02:46 PM
Nice display of his jet and various articles such as a slightly used Mig-15 ejection seat at the USAF Museum. Easy to see the real build quality on that baby. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

SkyChimp
01-03-2006, 09:41 AM
I'm about done with it. Clearly, the value of this book doesn't lie in the specific information on the airwar it provides. The author makes some pretty substantial errors on aircraft, and other technical matters. But it's not intended to be a reference book.

The real value of this book is the insight it offers into the North Korean culture, and life this pilot led before and after his defection. If you don't mind the technical errors (which are easily forgiveable), the book is really a fantastic and interesting read.

MLudner
01-03-2006, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viking-S:
Interesting but who wrote it?



...by No ***-Sok, the North Korean pilot that defected with his MiG-15 to UN forces...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I second that.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And raise it one:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

HayateAce
01-03-2006, 10:34 AM
Pwnage.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/generations/mig15-f86.jpg

neural_dream
01-03-2006, 10:42 AM
I know, good guy, he left Kim Il Sung and came to the West, ... but ...

read a book by a traitor? even of the enemy. Sure, very interesting, but he's still a traitor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. It's not Kim Il Sung he's leaving behind or the communists, it's his compatriots.

Not that you can take me seriously with that sig of course http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

MLudner
01-03-2006, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by neural_dream:
I know, good guy, he left Kim Il Sung and came to the West, ... but ...

read a book by a traitor? even of the enemy. Sure, very interesting, but he's still a traitor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif. It's not Kim Il Sung he's leaving behind or the communists, it's his compatriots.

Not that you can take me seriously with that sig of course http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

I never curse runaway slaves as traitors.

neural_dream
01-03-2006, 11:22 AM
Once a traitor always a traitor. Revolution I understand even when flawed, runaway I don't accept even for a "good" purpose.

MLudner
01-03-2006, 11:30 AM
I still never curse runaway slaves as traitors. I never will, either.

Not to say that you can't, just I won't.

Viking-S
01-03-2006, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by MLudner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viking-S:
Interesting but who wrote it?



...by No ***-Sok, the North Korean pilot that defected with his MiG-15 to UN forces...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I second that.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And raise it one:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

€œWhenever people agree with me, I always feel that I must be wrong. €œ
Oscar Wilde

Hence: Whenever people (at least in this forum) disagree with me I know I must be right!

Viking

MLudner
01-03-2006, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Viking-S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MLudner:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tully__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viking-S:
Interesting but who wrote it?



...by No ***-Sok, the North Korean pilot that defected with his MiG-15 to UN forces...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I second that.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

And raise it one:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

€œWhenever people agree with me, I always feel that I must be wrong. €œ
Oscar Wilde

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif Hence: Whenever people (at least in this forum) disagree with me I know I must be right!

Viking </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Dude! Achtung! Minen!
You so did not get what either of us was saying.

We did not disagree with you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

joeap
01-03-2006, 12:10 PM
Neural_Dream, have you ever asked yourself why the population of South Korea is so much larger than that of the North? Are all the people who tried to cross the Berlin Wall traitors?

Bremspropeller
01-03-2006, 12:31 PM
Meant as a serious question:

Which plane now actually had the edge ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

WTE_Ibis
01-03-2006, 01:32 PM
In the early days the Mig enjoyed a healthy advantage.


http://premium1.uploadit.org/Ibissix//mig.JPG

Brain32
01-03-2006, 01:32 PM
As much as I know neither. Or atleast as always war is to complicated for such simple questions to be answered. There are many things in an equasion: pilot training,maintance,tactics etc.

berg417448
01-03-2006, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Meant as a serious question:

Which plane now actually had the edge ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Probably the Mig has the edge...but I've read comments from Mig 15 pilots who said that the one really big advantage the Sabre had (from their point of view) was much better visibility from the cockpit(especially to the rear). I've also seen complaints about poor fuel economy limiting range.

BigKahuna_GS
01-03-2006, 02:41 PM
S!

Chuck Yeager talks quite extensively about test flying the Mig-15 in his book. While the Mig-15 had a superior cieling and climb rate, the F-86 had the superior turn rate, roll rate, gun sight and F-86 pilots wore G-suits.

F-86 gun cam footage shows many Mig-15s spinning out of control during hard G turns with the evaluation being that Mig-15 pilots which did not wear G-suits were blacking out during these manuevers.

Yeager said the F-86 was the overall superior weapons system and was the better built aircraft.


___

SkyChimp
01-03-2006, 05:24 PM
The book has a pretty good summary of the test fidnings. I'll summarize some of them:

NoKum Sok warned the US test pilot Chuck Yeager not to attempt to spin the plane as it was almost impossible to recover.

US tests of the armament found them "merely adequate," whatever that means. Yeager said they may be good for downing bombers, but inadequate for dogfighting.

It had a poor radio.

The chinese made tire were nearly worn out.

In one flight, Flight Tester Tom Collings nearly blacked out at 48,000 feet due to a leaky oxygen hose, with valves that had corroded shut. Once this was repaired, flights to 55,000 feet were made.

The plane could not be dived over mach .92 (placard limit).

Nose-up pitching occurred at mach .83.

In an inverted dive at 45 degree angle at mach .83, the nose pitched up so that the fighter began to dive straight down. Yeager performed this dive as Colling followed. Collins noted he saw the elevator and rudder moving without effect. He advised Yeager to eject. YTeager dived to 12,000 feet where he was able to get control.

The MiG was unable to break mach .98 in a dive.

The Russian gauges were inaccurate and replaced with American gauges. The Russian gauges overstated the speed of the plane.

Yeager stated that "Flying the MiG was the most demanding situation I ever faced. It's a quirky planes that has killed a lot of its pilots. The thing is a flying booby trap."

Nevertheless, Yeager was able to best Sabres in mock dogfights while flying the MiG. He was able to best the MiG on every occassion in a Sabre.

No *** Sok states the Americans tested the plane very thoroughly and probably knew more about it that the Russians.

---

No *** Sok test flew the Sabre himself. He stated the Sabre was by far the better aircraft.

MLudner
01-03-2006, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by Viking-S:
Interesting but who wrote it?
Books and information from cold war era should be disregarded or taken with HUGE pinch of salt.


Now, on a more serious note I'll reply the way I originally intended to when I read your post there based on the way I took it.


Whether or not you will believe what No ***-Sok had to say is up to you. You can take him as a disgruntled escaped slave and disregard in part or whole what he had to say as you will.

One kind of has to look at the way it was written to decide. While researching the Old West I was studying the events in Tombstone, Arizona surrounding the Clantons / McLaury's and the Earps. I picked up copies of both Stewart Lake's autobiography of Wyatt Earp and William Breckenridge's "Helldorado" (He was one of Johnny Behan's Deputy Sheriffs at the time all this was taking place). I was told by those who favor the Earps that Breckenridge was a liar and told that he'd claimed the Clantons and McLaurys were just misunderstood ranchers.
After I had read both I concluded that Lake / Earp were full of it and Breckenridge was far more reliable. In Lake's book, for example, you can always tell who Wyatt's about to either kill or beat the stuffing out of because this person will get at least 1 + paragraphs dedicated to just how deadly and tough the guy was before Lake describes the fight. We find, for example, that according to Lake Frank McLaury was widely regarded in Tombstone and Cochise County as the deadliest gunman who had ever lived (Aside from Wild Bill, of course); about how he was much more dangerous than either Johnny Ringo or "Buckskin" Frank Leslie or "Curly" Bill Brocius (William Graham, real name). Those three were just pretenders; it was Frank McLaury who was really to be feared.
Of course, Wyatt put three rounds through Frank's gut at the famed shoot-out on 26 October 1881 in the general vicinity of the O.K. Corral.
No where else have I ever found anyone else commenting on how deadly Frank was, nor even suggesting he was more feared than Ringo or Leslie. In fact, Ringo was the most widely feared man in the area at the time, with Leslie and Doc Holliday right behind.
Breckenridge, in fact, said that the Clantons and McLaurys were "the criminal element" and wrote of how frightened he was when Behan sent him out to collect taxes from them knowing how dangerous those people could be. Breckenridge seemed far less out for self-aggrandizement than was Earp.

Basically, read what No ***-Sok had to say, then decide.

LEXX_Luthor
01-03-2006, 06:01 PM
The UN MiG-15 had the superior weapons for the purpose they were made for -- driving UN B-29s from the daytime sky even when they had F-86 escort. It took escorting F-94s and NAVY F3D SkyNight rader equipped interceptors to protect B-29s from MiG-15s guided by searchlights and flares, at heavy cost to the escorts, but the B-29s completed their missions.

UberPickle
01-03-2006, 09:06 PM
I want to get a copy of this, i've always been interested in North Korea.