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slo1234
07-30-2005, 01:36 AM

slo1234
07-30-2005, 01:36 AM
who would like to see flyable heavey bombers and float planes like b-29 b-24 b-17 pbn and h8k1's?

HotelBushranger
07-30-2005, 06:24 AM
I'd rather tactical/strike, like the Me-210. Thats a beaut lookin aircraft

neural_dream
07-30-2005, 08:28 AM
when? the maximum possible number of future additions has already been announced and no bomber was in there.

Except if you are talking about BoB.

Atomic_Marten
07-30-2005, 09:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by neural_dream:
when? the maximum possible number of future additions has already been announced and no bomber was in there.

Except if you are talking about BoB. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think so too.

LEBillfish
07-30-2005, 10:28 AM
hehe......Lets take a moment to think about the heavies....

It takes a long time to get any kind of altitude in them....Most here don't have the patience to fly from a further back base simply to not get vulched so I find it hard to imagine them spending an hour to get to altitude.

We have B25s, He'111s, TB3s, GM4s and possibly some others that have bombsights....I'd venture a fair guess that 90% of the time those that fly them never use the sight simply diving in like a Stuka if not running in low....I'd bet you'd see the same thing with heavies.

A heavy bomber alone is nothing short of a target drone.....Most who fly cannot even bother to wing another let alone fly with any form of teamwork....So how are you going to get the bombers to take the time to fly together for protection?

Naturally all of this "online"....However can you hear the gripes once we had them..."This S***s!!!....The plane is porked because I can't fly in low, slow, and alone and hammer the target then rtb...I keep getting shot down!!...This is not how it was real life, I know, this is my favorite plane so has to be the best!!...and it dogfights Bf109's like Cr*p!!..WTF?!!!!!"

I can live without them....AI flys them just fine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif......However, I would like the PBN and Japanese sea planes with the ability to fly to a downed pilot in water and "pick them up" (say get within 50m, he is rescued)...Now that would be worth it...Next I'd then want the Ju-57 and C47 for their grunt work....But the heavies I simply see as a huge waste of effort to simply not be used like they were intended.

neural_dream
07-30-2005, 01:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
I would like the PBN and Japanese sea planes with the ability to fly to a downed pilot in water and "pick them up" (say get within 50m, he is rescued)...Now that would be worth it... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Brilliant idea. I don't know whether it has appeared before in any other flight sim, but this is definitely a brilliant idea, and not difficult at all to implement. Very very good.

Perhaps we could even use a Fieseler Storch for rescue operations in mountains. Or maybe not. Well, anyway, your idea is simply brilliant. With such an unprecedented variety of aircraft this game should offer much more than dogfighting.

Atomic_Marten
07-30-2005, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
A heavy bomber alone is nothing short of a target drone.....Most who fly cannot even bother to wing another let alone fly with any form of teamwork....So how are you going to get the bombers to take the time to fly together for protection? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me just say that it wouldn't be even fun to fly heavy bomber in formation in game as it is now.
I have never shot down so many enemy fighters like when I was playing with B-29 or Pe-8. Most of the enemy fighters are just "drones" for my snipers.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Except those smart ones who take it vertically.

VF-17_Jolly
07-30-2005, 03:26 PM
I like the heavies they look nice and are good to shoot down

I think mediums are better for because they are more versatile with high,mid and low level bombing. Also Anti-submarine depth charges and rockets antiship torpedoes, mine laying

My favourite the PV-1/2 is sadly missing from PF (maybe for BOB in an add-on)

http://www.hsgalleries.com/gallery04/images/venturajb_1.jpg

http://freespace.virgin.net/m.zoeller/DFFLTS/AE658.jpg

PV-2 (http://www.warbirdalley.com/pv2.htm)

PV-1 (http://www.flightjournal.com/articles/ventura/ventura_1.asp)

Peckens
07-30-2005, 03:50 PM
u know b24s were used to take out subs they had spotlights and everything saw it on mail call last night

slo1234
07-30-2005, 03:58 PM
what is this bob thing i keep seeing ?

VF-17_Jolly
07-30-2005, 04:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Peckens:
u know b24s were used to take out subs they had spotlights and everything saw it on mail call last night </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.b24.mach3ww.com/new/leigh.jpg

Yes

TC_Stele
07-30-2005, 06:18 PM
I know there's a lot of talk about not having heavies in this game because of map size, etc, but to be honest I'd rather see heavies in this game than in any other game. I like IL2 series a lot and I couldn't see myself flying them outside of it. BoB is set just set for BoB, right? If that expands then I guess I could see them in it, but if not I'd rather see the heavies for this series.

dk91
07-30-2005, 07:52 PM
heavy bombers is wut would make this game kick total @$$. I am a very big fan of bombers and my old HL name used to be wyobomber for i spent more time bombing then fighting which doesnt make me the best fighter pilot but a quite exceptional bomber pilot.



unfortunatly i dont think this game will ever see heavy bombers http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Kernow
07-31-2005, 01:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
hehe......Lets take a moment to think about the heavies....

It takes a long time to get any kind of altitude in them....Most here don't have the patience to fly from a further back base simply to not get vulched so I find it hard to imagine them spending an hour to get to altitude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The sort of person who can't be bothered to get to altitude in a fighter certainly won't fly many bomber sorties; those who can be bothered to fly heavies will spend the required time.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
We have B25s, He'111s, TB3s, GM4s and possibly some others that have bombsights....I'd venture a fair guess that 90% of the time those that fly them never use the sight simply diving in like a Stuka if not running in low....I'd bet you'd see the same thing with heavies. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have a B-25, a couple of TB-3s and He-111s, and a G4M which are flyable and which have bombsights. No, there are no others which have a bombsight, although the Stuka utilizes some bombsight controls. You don't know much about the bombers, do you? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif A lot of people do know how to use the sight. You can't really use the Betty or the 111 in any other way (unless torpedo bombing).

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
A heavy bomber alone is nothing short of a target drone.....Most who fly cannot even bother to wing another let alone fly with any form of teamwork....So how are you going to get the bombers to take the time to fly together for protection? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly the same can be said of fighters, if you replace 'protection' by 'mutual support.'

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
Naturally all of this "online"....However can you hear the gripes once we had them..."This S***s!!!....The plane is porked because I can't fly in low, slow, and alone and hammer the target then rtb...I keep getting shot down!!...This is not how it was real life, I know, this is my favorite plane so has to be the best!!...and it dogfights Bf109's like Cr*p!!..WTF?!!!!!" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Far less likely from the average bomber pilot than from the average fighter pilot. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">
I can live without them....AI flys them just fine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif......However, I would like the PBN and Japanese sea planes with the ability to fly to a downed pilot in water and "pick them up" (say get within 50m, he is rescued)...Now that would be worth it...Next I'd then want the Ju-57 and C47 for their grunt work....But the heavies I simply see as a huge waste of effort to simply not be used like they were intended. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes that would be nice, but your last sentence could be said of anything in game at the moment, or ever likely to be in the game.

Siwarrior
07-31-2005, 04:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
I'd rather tactical/strike, like the Me-210. Thats a beaut lookin aircraft </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

you think anything is beaut http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Ku101-Chainsaw
07-31-2005, 09:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
hehe......Lets take a moment to think about the heavies....

It takes a long time to get any kind of altitude in them....Most here don't have the patience to fly from a further back base simply to not get vulched so I find it hard to imagine them spending an hour to get to altitude.

We have B25s, He'111s, TB3s, GM4s and possibly some others that have bombsights....I'd venture a fair guess that 90% of the time those that fly them never use the sight simply diving in like a Stuka if not running in low....I'd bet you'd see the same thing with heavies.

A heavy bomber alone is nothing short of a target drone.....Most who fly cannot even bother to wing another let alone fly with any form of teamwork....So how are you going to get the bombers to take the time to fly together for protection?

Naturally all of this "online"....However can you hear the gripes once we had them..."This S***s!!!....The plane is porked because I can't fly in low, slow, and alone and hammer the target then rtb...I keep getting shot down!!...This is not how it was real life, I know, this is my favorite plane so has to be the best!!...and it dogfights Bf109's like Cr*p!!..WTF?!!!!!"

I can live without them....AI flys them just fine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif......However, I would like the PBN and Japanese sea planes with the ability to fly to a downed pilot in water and "pick them up" (say get within 50m, he is rescued)...Now that would be worth it...Next I'd then want the Ju-57 and C47 for their grunt work....But the heavies I simply see as a huge waste of effort to simply not be used like they were intended. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I cant look at it the way you are looking at it LEBillfish...

The heavies WILL be flown I can promise you that, and they will fly together to get cover..

People that flies bomber are rarely "dogfighter" who djumps in, get the best plane and take of on taxi way and get up and fight and dont care a jack for the mission objectives..

Normally they are people who wants to fly a level bombing mision and take the effort of gaining altitude...

I can only speak for myself and what I have seen and my experience but from what I have seen, sure there are some players who pics a heavy and take off and use it as a Stuka, but most bomber pilots gets some palls to tag along in bombers and getting up a good formation and ask the fighters to meet up and give protection wich the fighter do for most time...

Like me, Im in 101 Kokutai, flying the betty bomber, when we play on servers we stick together, forming up a bombin formation that sticks together then we mostly have 2 formations of fighters protection us,one who fly with us and one that fly high upp covering us from Boom and Zoom attacks...

So I think you are totally wrong on how the heavies would be used, I belive you think all who play is a dogfighter and would use the heavies as one.

/Chainsaw

LEBillfish
07-31-2005, 11:30 AM
Actually Kernow I fly and drop from about 5km as the fighters tend to linger around 3-3.5, a few 4.....and actually I'd say it's you dear that know little of bombers as the HE111 was called a "BlitzBomber" for a reason...However,

The reason heavies are not in the sim is mainly due to the rather large cockpits & number of stations within them. So the amount of work required to make one heavy might take the same as 3-4 fighters or a couple medium bombers (supposedly).....

As to flying with any sort of teamwork, or even basic sense....Well, simply fly online a bit and tell me that again....DF servers are notorious for lack of teamwork, coops not much better, and if it's not quick "insta-action" well the server tends to be barren unless it has some novelty attached to it like scoring.

Now sure, some will fly it right....However when 2-3 hours is spent online even getting a minor 6 bombers and 2 fighters to fly together for one trip....It's simply not going to happen that often.

Flying a bomber right is a boring taxing job that is broken up by 3 minutes of panic and 3 minutes of focussed concentration....

I'd also bet that the very first post made once we got a heavy would be "so where's the A-Bomb?!!!"......What does that tell you?

Yet these kinds of posts are simply beating dead horses....A mute point...As you will NOT be getting heavies in the IL2 series....As to BoB...well think about it, what heavy was used in that conflict?????

Ku101-Chainsaw
07-31-2005, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Yet these kinds of posts are simply beating dead horses.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Unfortunly THERE you are RIGHT http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

GAU-8
08-01-2005, 10:18 PM
LEB,

you are correct about BoB....there should not be any heavies in that scenario..that is why they BELONG HERE!

every facet of this game has been answered for players.

early year
late year
medium bomber
light bomber
4 engined EARLY bombers
fantasy german aircraft
fantasy american aircraft
fantasy russian aircraft
....except the best known bombers over europe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

trust me when i say there is more than your "some" who will fly it correctly. many of us did just that quite often on the AIRQWUAKE servers...

now we need to get stepped up to the full real servers. but we cant, unless they are made playable..rather than kept as AI.

make 1 cockpit, and 1 bombardiers station. thats all we need.

besides, here is how i look at it.. if 4 planes can be modeled, from the "cost" of one bomber...

will we EVER see a bomber for the exacct same reason with future BoB engined add-ons... probably NOT. if oleg doesnt do the resources for them now.. why would he ever use the resources for a much higher polygon count in an even more demanding game???

make here now..while its "cheap".

FritzGryphon
08-01-2005, 11:11 PM
Keep in mind that all the existing multi-engine bombers are made by 3rd party (I think, not sure about the new Japanse one). It will probably be the same in the future.

So if you want something done right (or at all), do it yourself.

F19_Olli72
08-01-2005, 11:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
As to flying with any sort of teamwork, or even basic sense....Well, simply fly online a bit and tell me that again....DF servers are notorious for lack of teamwork, coops not much better, and if it's not quick "insta-action" well the server tends to be barren unless it has some novelty attached to it like scoring.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

With that attitude ppl are better off not buying BoB at all, specially LW fighter pilots . Hmm lets see..take-off and fly over the channel: ca 20 minutes, stay and fight max 10 minutes, break off and rtb before fuel runs out ca 20 minutes. Nope, no 'insta-action' there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEBillfish:
Yet these kinds of posts are simply beating dead horses....A mute point...As you will NOT be getting heavies in the IL2 series....As to BoB...well think about it, what heavy was used in that conflict????? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, not classified as a heavy bomber but with the amount of crew and size it would propably take just as much work: I would suggest Short Sunderland. They beat up everything from u-boats to Ju-88s even before BoB started http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
http://gunderson.exto.nl/gallery/dbimages/1095/1095-o-37725.jpg

wayno7777
08-02-2005, 01:06 AM
When I want to do the bomber thing, I just pop in B-17-The mighty Eighth... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif