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View Full Version : Question to Oleg's Team: What about adding Stamina to BoB ?



XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 11:24 PM
well ok, this suggestion is no normal one.
But i think it could be interessting and it will ad something to BoB which no FlightSim befor had.

so here we go:
A normal Pilot will drain his stamina in each turn, how much depends on the G's he's pulling and on stickforces.
In FB you can pull verry much G's constant and without any restrictions. You can fly circles and hard turns, and you can fly them as long as you want cause blackout will only! happen if you are turning verry fast and verry hard. (won't appear in a turnfight which is normaly about 300kph)

So my suggestion is adding stamina, maybe as it is now when the player is wounded.
If you are in a long close dogfight the turnabilitys should drain, the longer you'll fight the more it will drain.
If the Pilot (you) will be exhausted than you should not be able to do any fast manouvers for a certain time (time to recover Stamina).

I think it would be verry interessting to dogfight like this (it sould be possible to use this as an option in the difficult settings)

what do you guy's think?

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Message Edited on 10/27/0311:32PM by ToP_BlackSheep

XyZspineZyX
10-27-2003, 11:24 PM
well ok, this suggestion is no normal one.
But i think it could be interessting and it will ad something to BoB which no FlightSim befor had.

so here we go:
A normal Pilot will drain his stamina in each turn, how much depends on the G's he's pulling and on stickforces.
In FB you can pull verry much G's constant and without any restrictions. You can fly circles and hard turns, and you can fly them as long as you want cause blackout will only! happen if you are turning verry fast and verry hard. (won't appear in a turnfight which is normaly about 300kph)

So my suggestion is adding stamina, maybe as it is now when the player is wounded.
If you are in a long close dogfight the turnabilitys should drain, the longer you'll fight the more it will drain.
If the Pilot (you) will be exhausted than you should not be able to do any fast manouvers for a certain time (time to recover Stamina).

I think it would be verry interessting to dogfight like this (it sould be possible to use this as an option in the difficult settings)

what do you guy's think?

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Message Edited on 10/27/0311:32PM by ToP_BlackSheep

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 12:10 AM
i think it's a VERY good idea mate both because stamina is something that can't be neglected (pilots had to deal with physiological issues during dogfights this is a fact) and because it should be easy to implement, some research and checking with a physiatrist should be enough to bring this relevant aspect into the sim... yes a good idea, blame on maddox if he passes over this one /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 12:31 AM
Great Idea ! .)

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 12:43 AM
I think WWIIOL has this sort of thing already.

Anything to keep people flying in a more relistic manner is good by me.

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 01:05 AM
Would really increase the level immersion imho, by 'forcing' more correct real life tactics. Hopefully the AI would be restricted as humans were.

A great suggestion, as important as Weather, Airframe G-load, and AI Combat Disengagement, imho.

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 01:37 AM
Yes it‚¬īs a good Idea.


High Stamina means

High Stickforce - high G tolerance


Low Stamina means

Low Stickforce - Low G tolerance


Using much Stickforce and high G loads should drain stamina.

The Model and the Parameters of draining and recover stamina can be defined by using aviable flighmedical datas.


Maybe some Plane are more Pilot friendly in some sort of way in this than other Planes ( FW190 for example).
But for fairness or balancing reasosn this should be not a factor, also the Pilots self.
I mean a Russian Pilot and a German or American one should have the same stamina valve.

This can be another interesting factor in Air Combat.
And this helps to keep out things like endless looping planes and something like this.


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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 04:11 AM
Better be careful cos real pilots in a bad spot could find reserves of "stamina" when the stamina formula says it should be all used up. Bad move, this one.

I saw the Seinfeld episode the other night, about "shrinkage," now that would be awsum. I read a book written by a Russian who flew Niewport 17s against the Bolsheviks in early 1920s, and in the icy Siberian winter, the pilot "shrinkage" he described is more than anybody here can imagine. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 05:14 AM
Yea, as I already posted about it in BOB2005 in this Oleg's ready room.

Regards
SnowLeopard

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 07:34 AM
Yes, it's a nice idea! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

mfg Mats aus ÷sterreich

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 10:35 AM
hmm, looks like the guys who wouldn't like it are not posting,

so guy's what are your cons, please tell me.

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 10:10 PM
Seems like a reasonable request. Perhaps, there is some human physiology data that is available on the net in this regard.


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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 10:32 PM
Well here is a con to this idea. It's easy to say how a machine would perform, but who's to say how each pilot would perform in a combat situation? A big, fat 300lb beer drinker holding a joystick will have the same stamina inside the sim as the lean, mean fighting machine body builder would. Not exactly fair, is it?

It's a good idea, in theory, but if you make everybody's stamina the same, your back to where you started. Everybody's stamina is already the same. Stamina already plays a part in the game, I know after a long enough time I start to get tired, for real. My flying ability is decreased, for real, not implied by a computer processor.

I can see both sides of this issue. I'm dead in the middle on this one, I could be easily swayed both ways. I'm only giving the cons because that was specifically requested.

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XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 10:34 PM
Okay, I hear of these studies saying there are differences between male and female pilots, not just "stamina" (sounds like a pure male idea anyway, or FEAR perhaps /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif ) but resistance to gees and other stuff. Great, now if the scientific studies are true we need a switch in the game to allow the FBoB simmer/simmerette to choose pilot sex.

Why do I have the feeling *all* the Male simmers/simmerettes will chose Female pilot option? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:28 PM
yep, that is a maijor problem, but if you would have stamina in game than you would have a difference to the way it is now.
Even if everybody would have the same "Pilot-Model"

Cause.
If you are flying like a monkey ( /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )
then your stamina is draining more than someone who is flying yoyos or uses good tactics. So the guy with the tactics will get you, sooner or later, when your stamina is low and you can't turn as close as you'd have to. So you'll need a good wingman or a good idea to get rid of him. I think it would make the game more interesting.

I alsow think that it would be nessesairi to use it as an Option the ones who want it should use and the other ons should not use it.

@Lexx
whatever you take
stop it
it is not good for you.
BTW: i don't know why you are thinking that it would discriminate female Pilots ? i don't get the point.

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Message Edited on 10/28/0310:33PM by ToP_BlackSheep

XyZspineZyX
10-28-2003, 11:55 PM
RolfWolf wrote:

- Maybe some Plane are more Pilot friendly in some
- sort of way in this than other Planes ( FW190 for
- example).
- But for fairness or balancing reasosn this should be
- not a factor,

For fairness? Huh??? Maybe just give all planes 1 FM for fairness too?

Sorry pal, i don't want another air quake. If BoB will be sim not game it shouldn't give rats *** about "fairness" or "balance".

Sorry but cockpit design for pilot g-tolerance is just another design quality like engine power or aerodynamics. Some planes were better than others and we know which. So why not to model it?

For me the most realistic sim is the most interesting/immersive one by far and i think this is great idea to add even more immersion.


There's a good change we get better researched and calculated performances for planes in BoB for various reasons. Every bit of realism is welcome if it can be well modeled.

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 12:01 AM
When I first read your idea I thought it was a nice addition, but soon I imagined all the 'stamina-whiners', claiming some plane had lighter/heavier controls, etc.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 01:29 AM
this problem will not be solved, neighter for FM nor DM or Planeset or whatever.
Most of the Whiners (whining is, :cry: i got my *** beaten by a guy in a plane i don't like /:cry/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif will not be satisfied even if there planes would have shield generators and anti-g engines.
I just want something to make DF'ting more realistic and in this case verry interesting.
That's the point.

And RolfWolf is right when he sais that pilots of every plane should have the same stamina-model (whatever you'd call it).
Cause it playes no role, after a long intense DF you will be alsmost "down" so you'd need to recover and in that time a good wingman / good teammates >>> this is another pro (for me) cos it will promote Teamplay and the RamboRookies will learn how the real pilots had to fly if they wanted to surive.
And for the ones who just don't want it (whiners..^^) just join another Server or disable it in the difficulty settings....

And if OM will use less planes than in FB than it is maybe possible to make this individual for every A/C. This would realy rock.
But maybe He can say something to this (i realy hope).

So Oleg, please don't let me die stupid (was heißt es auf englisch, lass mich nicht dumm sterben?)

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