PDA

View Full Version : LOOK... DRAGGED OUT OF A RUSSIAN LAKE.. TEXT LINK ADDED



Taylortony
03-03-2005, 10:43 AM
Featured in this months Airplane monthly for those that dont get it, Its a 3 page article and It's for sale and is in the UK now, The pilot died in her having belly landed it on a frozen but thin lake surface, he had released his harness and they think he either died or was knocked out in the landing.. The log books were also found inside and where mostly readable bar a few pages of its wartime history......... Thought you might want to see it those that dont get this excellent magazine.

Sorry the picture is so big, but i thought you might want to droll over it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/il2_skinners_guides/guest/cobra.jpg

Taylortony
03-03-2005, 10:43 AM
Featured in this months Airplane monthly for those that dont get it, Its a 3 page article and It's for sale and is in the UK now, The pilot died in her having belly landed it on a frozen but thin lake surface, he had released his harness and they think he either died or was knocked out in the landing.. The log books were also found inside and where mostly readable bar a few pages of its wartime history......... Thought you might want to see it those that dont get this excellent magazine.

Sorry the picture is so big, but i thought you might want to droll over it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/il2_skinners_guides/guest/cobra.jpg

VBF-83_Hawk
03-03-2005, 10:48 AM
JACKPOT!

crazyivan1970
03-03-2005, 10:51 AM
Amazing...60 years under water and such a good shape.

Thanks for sharing.

buglord
03-03-2005, 10:51 AM
Great find & a rare find cant believe that its all in one piece. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
http://server2.uploadit.org/files/mrbuglord-shotdown2.jpg

Aztek_Eagle
03-03-2005, 11:37 AM
one day i will move to russia, if i cant buy an airplane, i will dig one out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

faustnik
03-03-2005, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Amazing...60 years under water and such a good shape.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Made in the USA. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F0_Dark_P
03-03-2005, 12:21 PM
i am drolling very kool http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

BSS_Goat
03-03-2005, 12:35 PM
kinda humbling thinking of that pilots last minutes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

but very cool pics, thanks

woofiedog
03-03-2005, 12:50 PM
Wow! It will be Great to hear the follow up and History on this Aircraft.
Thank's

SpartanHoplite
03-03-2005, 12:58 PM
Oh, yeah... Now that is sweet!

P-39. Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin' (well, sort of, anyway)!

SH

x__CRASH__x
03-03-2005, 12:58 PM
I've already put my bid in. Thanks for sharing with the community. Wish me luck.

Stackhouse25th
03-03-2005, 01:14 PM
Post the other 2 pages dude!!! The pilots body was found in the plane????

Waldo.Pepper
03-03-2005, 01:50 PM
Very impressive. Thanks for sharing. Any info about the pilot? Name etc. Sad but one of millions.

I once had an aviation magazine (caa't even remeber the name of it) But it had an article about what they found when the Zuyder Zee was drained after the watr. They found a nearly intact B-17 and lots of other planes. They even found the remains of a Gotha bomber from WW1 in the muck.

I sure wish I had the magazine still. Or at least some more info about the findings.

Galaboo
03-03-2005, 01:56 PM
It's funny how people will pay more money for a plane that doesn't work than for a plane that does work.

Speaking of planes, I rock!

Capt.England
03-03-2005, 01:59 PM
If it had a dead pilot inside, Then I hope he gets a full honour funeral as this plane is surely a war grave that should not of been disturbed.

Good to see that the plane is in great shape though! S! to the dead airman and a shame he did not see out his days into old age. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Chuck_Older
03-03-2005, 02:02 PM
If the pilot dies within the aircraft, it is an official War Grave. That plane is the pilot's tomb. It shouldn't be recovered for any reason. I may be wrong about this, but I beleive International Law frowns on distrubance of a War Grave. I am saddened and surprised by this. Why couldn't the pilot rest in peace? What more could the pilot have given? His tomb, for pete's sake, they dragged up his tomb

Jasko76
03-03-2005, 02:08 PM
Yes Chuck, I agree, but now he can be properly buried and his relatives can have a grave to visit.

Taylortony
03-03-2005, 02:09 PM
I didnt know till it was recovered, remember it is pretty much full of silt, he was removed and has been buried with full military honours, I will post the whole article in a bit i have to photo is as my scanner cant do mags

Chuck_Older
03-03-2005, 02:18 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
I didnt know till it was recovered, remember it is pretty much full of silt, he was removed and has been buried with full military honours, I will post the whole article in a bit i have to photo is as my scanner cant do mags <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's done is done...can't change it, no matter what I feel

But, on the other hand, you are typically very precise in your posts. I note with extreme curiousity that you say "I didn't know till it was recovered"

You know more about this aircraft's recovery than you have said, I think http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Spill it!

Capt.England
03-03-2005, 02:22 PM
Good point Taylortony! This is one of those "should they/should they not" type of things. After all, Who's seen skeleton parts in museums that come from ancient field's and wonder if they may come from ancient battlefields or not?

Hopefully, this brave soul will be returned to his surviving family to be laid to rest at last.
My Great Grandfather died in Ypres in WW1 and his body is still out there in the old battleground. Maybe one day he may be found?

GT182
03-03-2005, 02:26 PM
Chuck, I could be wrong but I don't think Russia follows any rules on this. They are, and have been for years, digging up bodies of German soldiers and selling their personal equipment. Plus any other military equipment they can find. I've met guys at shows that have bought some of this stuff directly from Russia and other European counties. It's all about the money that can be made. Hungry mouths have no conscience. Sad but true.

Chuck_Older
03-03-2005, 02:38 PM
You're right, Russia has odd laws...do you recall the Buffalo recovery from Russian Karelia about 7 years ago, it's being restored now, last I heard. I bet you do...that didn't even have a deceased pilot in it, and that story was unbeleivably weird.

darkhorizon11
03-03-2005, 02:38 PM
I don't see anything just an x.

Taylortony
03-03-2005, 03:00 PM
OK for the person that said all they could see was a red X here is the link
http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/il2_skinners_guides/guest/cobra.jpg

here is the text that went with the article, I will leave this up for a day only as it is using a lot of space, sorry about quality, i had to photograph it with a flash
I have not posted the pics as they are about 800kb so just click on them to see the pages


http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/il2_skinners_guides/guest/page_1.jpg

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/il2_skinners_guides/guest/page_2.jpg

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/il2_skinners_guides/guest/3_page.jpg

FoolTrottel
03-03-2005, 03:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Very impressive. Thanks for sharing. Any info about the pilot? Name etc. Sad but one of millions.

I once had an aviation magazine (caa't even remeber the name of it) But it had an article about what they found when the Zuyder Zee was drained after the watr. They found a nearly intact B-17 and lots of other planes. They even found the remains of a Gotha bomber from WW1 in the muck.

I sure wish I had the magazine still. Or at least some more info about the findings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Was it this B17? (http://home.wxs.nl/~stijger/home.htm)

Waldo.Pepper
03-03-2005, 03:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Very impressive. Thanks for sharing. Any info about the pilot? Name etc. Sad but one of millions.

I once had an aviation magazine (caa't even remeber the name of it) But it had an article about what they found when the Zuyder Zee was drained after the watr. They found a nearly intact B-17 and lots of other planes. They even found the remains of a Gotha bomber from WW1 in the muck.

I sure wish I had the magazine still. Or at least some more info about the findings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://home.wxs.nl/~stijger/home.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it likely that this was the B-17. I wish I could be sure.

Thanks for the article as well.

SpartanHoplite
03-03-2005, 03:23 PM
Thanks, TaylorTony. A very interesting read. Too bad we'll never know why Baranovsky peeled off like that.

SH

FoolTrottel
03-03-2005, 03:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FoolTrottel:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Very impressive. Thanks for sharing. Any info about the pilot? Name etc. Sad but one of millions.

I once had an aviation magazine (caa't even remeber the name of it) But it had an article about what they found when the Zuyder Zee was drained after the watr. They found a nearly intact B-17 and lots of other planes. They even found the remains of a Gotha bomber from WW1 in the muck.

I sure wish I had the magazine still. Or at least some more info about the findings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://home.wxs.nl/~stijger/home.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it likely that this was the B-17. I wish I could be sure.

Thanks for the article as well. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember a Dutch TV program on this recovery, called "De tijd stond even stil". One survivor was present there.
I remember there's a book on this topic... but... wether I only saw in a shop or truly have it ... i dunno ...
I'm too tired now to start looking for it now... got too many books....

Waldo.Pepper
03-03-2005, 03:37 PM
Yes thanks Tony. I wonder if anyone will do anything with the plane to figure out why he tried to ditch.

I sure hope it flies again, in the Soviet colors.

So many questions still.

Bearcat99
03-03-2005, 03:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
If the pilot dies within the aircraft, it is an official War Grave. That plane is the pilot's tomb. It shouldn't be recovered for any reason. I may be wrong about this, but I beleive International Law frowns on distrubance of a War Grave. I am saddened and surprised by this. Why couldn't the pilot rest in peace? What more could the pilot have given? His tomb, for pete's sake, they dragged up his tomb <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The guy is dead and gone...... put him in the ground..... give him a state funeral like he deserves... restore the plane.... and put it in a museum with a bio on the pilot.

Zyzbot
03-03-2005, 04:00 PM
Many years ago...perhaps 35 years or so...I read a very small article which appeared in the local newspaper. It said that while draining some land in Holland, a crashed Mosquito fighter had been located. The unusual thing was that the Mosquito was said to have German markings and German machine guns in the weapons bay. Sounds like a KG 200 operation, if true. Anyone ever hear of this?

Chuck_Older
03-03-2005, 04:01 PM
I can understand that, Bearcat, although that is not my feeling on the matter.

War Graves are a serious thing to many people, and disturbance of them has legal ramifications in many countries.

BerkshireHunt
03-03-2005, 04:07 PM
Aircraft removed from Russia all seem to end up with an Englishman called Jim Pearce. At the last count he had something like three Stukas, four Sturmoviks, a couple of 110s, a Fw189, a 109E and now an Airacobra- all stored in a couple of hangars. What intrigues me is that there is never any comment in Aeroplane about how much money is changing hands, or what the law in Russia actually is. It seems to be 'finders keepers', although the Russian recovery teams- who are highly organised and clearly know where to look- have to get export licenses from the Russian trade ministry before they can ship the wrecks to England. I imagine there are some healthy sums being paid to officials to keep those licenses flowing. And then there is Jim Pearce- how much does he pay for this scrap metal? I'll bet its not more than around 20,000 (a fortune in Russia) for a rare wreck- which, after restoration and sale to some wealthy collector (usually in the States) is worth 500,000. Lucrative business and nice work if you can get it.
Why aren't you and I doing this?

Chuck_Older
03-03-2005, 04:16 PM
Because you can get killed doing it. In the old 'Warbirds Worldwide' mag, a Finnish Buffalo was recovered from a lake in Karelia. Some thinly veiled threats about imprisonment (at best) were sufficient to disuade the recovery team from it's original plan

Taylortony
03-03-2005, 04:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BerkshireHunt:
Aircraft removed from Russia all seem to end up with an Englishman called Jim Pearce. At the last count he had something like three Stukas, four Sturmoviks, a couple of 110s, a Fw189, a 109E and now an Airacobra- all stored in a couple of hangars. What intrigues me is that there is never any comment in Aeroplane about how much money is changing hands, or what the law in Russia actually is. It seems to be 'finders keepers', although the Russian recovery teams- who are highly organised and clearly know where to look- have to get export licenses from the Russian trade ministry before they can ship the wrecks to England. I imagine there are some healthy sums being paid to officials to keep those licenses flowing. And then there is Jim Pearce- how much does he pay for this scrap metal? I'll bet its not more than around 20,000 (a fortune in Russia) for a rare wreck- which, after restoration and sale to some wealthy collector (usually in the States) is worth 500,000. Lucrative business and nice work if you can get it.
Why aren't you and I doing this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well if you want to know what he is putting all this money you think he is earning into I would look at this........... you would be staggered at costs involved in doing this, I can tell you a merlin will cost you about 100,000 to restor it to an Airworthy condition and that is a good one..........

http://www.aeroplanemonthly.com/fw189society/index.htm

Taylortony
03-03-2005, 04:30 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Because you can get killed doing it. In the old 'Warbirds Worldwide' mag, a Finnish Buffalo was recovered from a lake in Karelia. Some thinly veiled threats about imprisonment (at best) were sufficient to disuade the recovery team from it's original plan <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Chuck read the second post i added with the text included you will see it was only when it was recovered was it discovered there were remains onboard and then those were given a full military burial such as happens in the UK....

I personally would prefer to see the likes of it done as this, because as soon as it was found, if you returned it to its watery grave, i would bet you a Dollar that come the next year it would have gone and no doubt this gallant Gentlemans remains would have just been criminally discarded and all the history that goes with it, IE his identity etc would have been lost.. This way he has now earned his place in History, has been laid to rest with full military honours, the mystery of his dissapearance has been solved and his family, if anyone survive have a place to morn and grieve his passing...............

I remember what happened with the B17 crew a while back..

Art-J
03-03-2005, 04:47 PM
I don't know how the civil law works in a "plane-grave" situation, but I remember reading article about American wrecks being found and sometimes recovered from the jungles of New Guinea. If crew remainings are in, the military law says to get them out (since they are still on Missing In Action lists) bring them home and bury with full honours. I don't remember the name for the army comittee which does the job, but they don't seem to stand over the plane and debate on "is this a grave or not?" question. Soldier's body has to return home, his name erased from MIA list, period.
I have no idea what Russian law says in similar situation, but I guess it's better for the poor guy to be recovered with his plane officialy and legal way, rather than be taken by some guys, who would scrap the plane and sell the remainings on a war souvenir black-market. (such things happened many times here in Poland, especially with ex-German armour findings http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. God knows how many rare relicts are being lost in a similar way in Russia)

Regards

ElAurens
03-03-2005, 04:51 PM
That aircraft has my number on the side...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Rest in peace sir.

x__CRASH__x
03-03-2005, 04:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
The guy is dead and gone...... put him in the ground..... give him a state funeral like he deserves... restore the plane.... and put it in a museum with a bio on the pilot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree with regards to the pilot. However if I win the bid, I plan on having it restored to flying capability.

Taylortony
03-03-2005, 05:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by x__CRASH__x:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
The guy is dead and gone...... put him in the ground..... give him a state funeral like he deserves... restore the plane.... and put it in a museum with a bio on the pilot. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree with regards to the pilot. However if I win the bid, I plan on having it restored to flying capability. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Bid what bid???? It has contact details on the post i added with the text for people considering buying it

GT182
03-03-2005, 05:38 PM
MAAM's P-61 was recovered from the jungles of New Guinea. I don't think there was any of the crew onboard. I believe they all got got out ok before it crashed.

Chuck, I seem to vaguely remember the Buffalo recovery. My memory ain't what it used to be... CRS has set in in the past 7 years. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BerkshireHunt
03-03-2005, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BerkshireHunt:
Aircraft removed from Russia all seem to end up with an Englishman called Jim Pearce. At the last count he had something like three Stukas, four Sturmoviks, a couple of 110s, a Fw189, a 109E and now an Airacobra- all stored in a couple of hangars. What intrigues me is that there is never any comment in Aeroplane about how much money is changing hands, or what the law in Russia actually is. It seems to be 'finders keepers', although the Russian recovery teams- who are highly organised and clearly know where to look- have to get export licenses from the Russian trade ministry before they can ship the wrecks to England. I imagine there are some healthy sums being paid to officials to keep those licenses flowing. And then there is Jim Pearce- how much does he pay for this scrap metal? I'll bet its not more than around 20,000 (a fortune in Russia) for a rare wreck- which, after restoration and sale to some wealthy collector (usually in the States) is worth 500,000. Lucrative business and nice work if you can get it.
Why aren't you and I doing this? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well if you want to know what he is putting all this money you think he is earning into I would look at this........... you would be staggered at costs involved in doing this, I can tell you a merlin will cost you about 100,000 to restor it to an Airworthy condition and that is a good one..........

http://www.aeroplanemonthly.com/fw189society/index.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As I understand it Jim Pearce doesn't actually bear the cost of restoration. He's more like a broker or receiving agent. He imports the wrecks to England at a rock bottom prices from Russia then advertises their availability to wealthy investors. Having sold a wreck to a museum or restoration company he pockets- what?- 50,000? Nobody ever says. The wealthy owner then pays for restoration. More often than not tyhe first owner sells the project on to another- its quite common for a project to be sold on two or three times over the course of its transformation from wreck to flyable aircraft. So it's quite unusual for one owner to bear the total cost of restoration.
Nevertheless, I'm just curious as to how much Jim makes out of it- he doesn't want anyone to know, possibly because it might upset his Russian friends. Re 'personal safety' I don't know whether Pearce goes to Russia to supervise recoveries- but I very much doubt it. If he has a skill its placing projects with interested parties- he obviously has good contacts within the community of restorers and enthusiast millionaires. Wonder if he's got a website?

Tony, are you sure about the merlin? I saw one on Ebay- complete- for 10,000.

T_O_A_D
03-03-2005, 07:17 PM
That totaly intriges the you know what out of me. If I could I'd move to Russia today just to get involved in this type of recovery.

I salute the fallen Hero.
I agree totaly with Bearcat. He will recieve more glory this way than remaining lost. Talortony is correct I'm sure once the site is found it must be taken at hand then, and not left be for a Grave robber.

ronison
03-03-2005, 07:29 PM
What I find most currious about the photo of the plane is the rudder. Being that the rudders on the 39 were fabric covered I would think it would have been a bit more degraded, at least in the paint if not destroyed over 60 years.

That must have been one cold lake or maybe the plane is really not 60 years old. My money is on the lake but man that thing is in mint condition concidering.......

blakduk
03-03-2005, 07:45 PM
I was intrigued by the condition of the airframe as well- superb considering its age. I suspect that the lake is very cold, that the aircraft was covered in silt/mud, and that the oxygen levels in the lower water levels would be extremely low. The danger is how quickly the materials will start to disintegrate now that its exposed to the atmosphere again!
What also shouldnt be forgotten is the unusual manner in which it found its way to the bottom of the lake- a landing on ice that then gave way so it sank relatively gently. Most of the damage would probably be superficial and restricted to the underside.
As for the pilot- he's dead and beyond caring about what we might think. We cant afford to get too sqeamish about people's graves- there are over 6 billion people alive in the world now, if everyone had the right to an undisturbed grave for eternity it wouldnt be too long before we couldnt move for fear of upsetting a ghost. When we pull bodies out of car wrecks we dont automatically say its a 'tomb' and refuse to remove them!

Lewicide
03-03-2005, 09:34 PM
Not long ago I saw an advertisement for various armoured vehicles for sale in eastern europe. This included a tiger tank for sale for some obscene amount. The tank was in a bog on the vendors land and I had the impression that recovery was the purchasers problem. The vendor seemed to have no qualms about pointing out in the advertisement,

....."crew still inside".

SabreF-86
03-03-2005, 11:30 PM
They recently recovered a Hurricane as well, also with pilot still aboard. He was extremely well preserved as the aircraft sank in a bog and the acidic and very cold waters mummified the remains. There used to be photos on one of the special interest sites, but I haven't seen them in a while.

As for a merlin for 10k pounds, yes, you might get one for that price, but I doubt you could install it in an airframe. The 100k price mentioned to rebuild on is the current rate mentioned in various magazines that deal with rebuilding warbirds. This is for an engine rebuilt to 0 time, and certified ready to fly.

Sabre

ronison
03-03-2005, 11:58 PM
One other thing I find interesting about the photo. If you look really close at the Russian marking you can almost see what looks like the American stars and bars behind. Look above and to the left side of the Russian star and you can almost make out a patch of faided blue. Also to the left you can make out what appears to be the white bar off the rondell along with the curve of a possible rondell.

Being this plane was manufactured in 1942 and crashed later there is a chance it was originly painted with the American markings before being adopted by the Russian Air Force.

SabreF-86
03-04-2005, 12:40 AM
True. Early lend lease aircraft were USAAC sent via Alaska to the USSR where they were repainted in VVS markings. At some point, when Bell was no longer providing the P-39 to US forces, they came off the line prepainted with Russian markings. From what I've read, the US really didn't have much use for the aircraft, as it was fairly mediocre. They kept it in service until they could get better designs into production, and gradually provided them to the Russians who found it to be the cats meow for troop support. Once the likes of the Mustang, Jug and Lightning came on line in sufficient quantities, Bell was no longer under contract to provide them to the USAAC. They then started to mark them directly as Russian.

Sabre

GreyBeast
03-04-2005, 01:12 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Made in the USA. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

...your forgot to add "BEFORE the 1970's" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

msalama
03-04-2005, 02:37 AM
Yeah, a great pic http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Maybe Ubizooers should kitty up some money & fish one up too, huh?

OT: That's a cute dog in your signature, Woofiedog, BTW http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif She yours?

woofiedog
03-04-2005, 06:33 AM
msalama... Quote... She yours?
All 18 pounds! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v438/woofiedog/100_0995.jpg
Thank's

BSS_Goat
03-04-2005, 06:43 AM
Woofiedog is over modeled.....be sure.

woofiedog
03-04-2005, 07:04 AM
BSS_Goat... Wwwaayy Over Modeled!
Spoiled Rotten is more the Correct term. She even gets Special Invite's over for Dinners at the Relatives.

wayno7777
03-04-2005, 09:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Very impressive. Thanks for sharing. Any info about the pilot? Name etc. Sad but one of millions.

I once had an aviation magazine (caa't even remeber the name of it) But it had an article about what they found when the Zuyder Zee was drained after the watr. They found a nearly intact B-17 and lots of other planes. They even found the remains of a Gotha bomber from WW1 in the muck.

I sure wish I had the magazine still. Or at least some more info about the findings. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember reading that also. Same brain cramp, too! And there were lots of pics.

wayno7777
03-04-2005, 09:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Taylortony:
Featured in this months Airplane monthly for those that dont get it, Its a 3 page article and It's for sale and is in the UK now, The pilot died in her having belly landed it on a frozen but thin lake surface, he had released his harness and they think he either died or was knocked out in the landing.. The log books were also found inside and where mostly readable bar a few pages of its wartime history......... Thought you might want to see it those that dont get this excellent magazine.

Sorry the picture is so big, but i thought you might want to droll over it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What issue is that from? I have March 2005 and in the news section they have a pic of P39Q-15 44-2911 recovered Jan. 11.... Ah, you must have April's issue. The lake is above the Artic Circle. It says it was a non-combat loss.
Also in the latest issue of Air Classics there's a small article on a Hawker Fury recovered from Iraq. With the recent Allied invasion of Iraq, at least one example was spirited away to to an undisclosed location in Britain where it may be rebuilt into flying condition. Several other airframes remain in Iraq and thier future is not clear.
Also in this issue is part one on the history of the P-38.
Back to AeroPlane, the March issue also has info on the restoration of HE-219 Uhu FE-614 at Dulles. Once they get her together , they put her in the museum next to the AR-234.
BOB pilot Bob Foster was reunited with a Hurri he flew in 1940 when Hurri R4118 at Cambridge Airport on 13 January 2005 flew again.
And, while I'm being long winded(sorry!) the pic that James Deitz posted is in this issue. Phillip Jarrett is asking it's identity. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-04-2005, 11:09 AM
Nice post Tony. Long enough to provide the intrigue yet short enough for my limited attention span.


TB

SithSpeeder
03-04-2005, 12:16 PM
Totally fascinating. And who said this board was getting stagnant? Thanks for sharing! (hope you didn't break too many copyright laws, LOL).

* _54th_Speeder *

Gibbage1
03-09-2005, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
I can understand that, Bearcat, although that is not my feeling on the matter.

War Graves are a serious thing to many people, and disturbance of them has legal ramifications in many countries. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Historians dont share your openion. If we could not touch anything that someone died in, we would have some VERY empty museums. They recently recoverd the turrete from the Monitor. People died in it. They also recoverd the CSS Hunley with all 6 body's inside. How about all the ships sunk in Perl Harbor. Should they all just be left sunk because people died in them? 1 was left as a mamorial, and it wont be touched. But the rest were raised and repaired so they could fight on in memory of the lost, and for those that were lost. I think its a bigger disgrace to the pilot to leave him at the bottom of some lake, forgotten. His story left un-told. His sacrifice not rememberd. This way, his ride and his memory may one day fly again, and we may learn.

Discracing the dead? No my friend. Honoring the dead. Be sure!

Gib