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View Full Version : ATI vs Gforce i'm ready.



TheGozr
12-31-2003, 06:07 PM
They are pretty close in performance really.
I'm ready to jump and buy a new one.i have actually an overclocked ti 4200....

9700 pro 256 mb or 5900 256 mb or 5700 ultra, pro 9800?

The best bang for the money?
128 or 256 mb worth it?

-GOZR

TheGozr
12-31-2003, 06:07 PM
They are pretty close in performance really.
I'm ready to jump and buy a new one.i have actually an overclocked ti 4200....

9700 pro 256 mb or 5900 256 mb or 5700 ultra, pro 9800?

The best bang for the money?
128 or 256 mb worth it?

-GOZR

TheGozr
12-31-2003, 07:19 PM
After being heavily criticized for its GeForceFX 5800 Ultra, which many viewed as a half-baked product, NVIDIA launched its follow-up chip FX 5900 Ultra today. In addition to a 256-bit memory interface, the design has been refined and a few optimizations have been added.

-GOZR

AJRobson
12-31-2003, 07:30 PM
Neither. Check out the FX 5900XT....

less than $200 generally and better than the 5700 Ultra.

http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2003q4/geforcefx-5900xt/index.x?pg=1

http://www.hothardware.com/hh_files/S&V/gffx_5900xt.shtml

I just ordered one from Newegg.com...

good luck

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rick_475
12-31-2003, 07:41 PM
Looks like ATI is winning the fight! I dunno about Nvidia but I think on long term they might get the same problems that Voodoo had. Investing too much in one way, then you hit a dead end. I'm also disappointed in AMD, I thought 2 years ago that they would unleashed something very cool and powerful, but i'm still waiting. Since Nvidia bought AMD, I don't think those 2 companies will show off great stuff on a short or medium period of time.

TheGozr
12-31-2003, 07:52 PM
They should find a way to make a mother board just like a big video card , Xbox style.

-GOZR

TheGozr
12-31-2003, 08:10 PM
Gainward GeForce FX5900 Ultra 256MB TV/2H AGP $399.00

Gigabyte GeForce FX5900XT 128MB TV-out DVI AGP Video Card $209.00

Gainward GeForce FX5900 128MB TV/DVI AGP Video Card $229.00

Gainward GeForce FX5900 256MB TV DVI AGP Video Card $319.00


Sapphire ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB W/TVDVI AGP $239.00

ATi 9800 pro 128 mb : 279$


Gigabyte RADEON 9800PRO 128MB TV&DVI AGP $329.00

ATI Sapphire Radeon 9800XT 256MB DVI/TV/2H AGP $459.00

-GOZR

arcadeace
12-31-2003, 08:11 PM
I have the 5900 non-ultra and it's superior to the 5700 ultra hands down. It's probably the best bang for buck for under $200 and 128mbs is just fine. The best card from what you've stated is the 98 pro. It's about $100 more but it is superior.

Nice to see you have your real name


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TheGozr
12-31-2003, 08:15 PM
THX http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif it feels good

-GOZR

TheGozr
12-31-2003, 08:20 PM
How the 5900 run when overclocked?

-GOZR

arcadeace
12-31-2003, 08:28 PM
It depends on the card retailer. A reputable name will give the best chance for good overclockability: Gainward, Saphire, Msi are a few biggies.

Mine is about the lowest and offhand I forget the name. Normal clock speeds are 400/850 for the non-ultra. I go 415/900.


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TheGozr
12-31-2003, 08:38 PM
yep i see i'm pretty much debating the ati 9800 pro and the 5900

i think the 5900 can be averclocked real secure around 440/900 and equal in most cases to the 9800 pro.

i just need to justify if the 100 $ more will be worth it for the ati.. humm
-GOZR

Agamemnon22
01-01-2004, 01:16 AM
... and if you want to be able to play any pixel shader 2 game at framerates with more than 1 digit, get ATI

In addition, I've gone through a Radeon DDR VIVO to a GF3 to a Radeon 8500 to a GF Ti4200 and every time Nvidia gives me more problems. Go figure..

BadKnight1
01-01-2004, 11:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Agamemnon22:
... and if you want to be able to play any pixel shader 2 game at framerates with more than 1 digit, get ATI

In addition, I've gone through a Radeon DDR VIVO to a GF3 to a Radeon 8500 to a GF Ti4200 and every time Nvidia gives me more problems. Go figure..<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> try using driver cleaner to get rid of your ati files in ur registry.Thats why u had Nvidia problems.

Agamemnon22
01-01-2004, 01:39 PM
Nope, trust me I know my way around a computer, I'd wipe the thing for every new vid card just to be safe. No go.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rick_475
01-01-2004, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Obviously another malinformed ATI owner suffering from pshycological grandeur.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have a Geforce 4 ti4200S and I never owned a ATI card, I was talking with objectivism. Ati has better algorithmic calculations than Nvidia and Ati has a problem with compatibility.

My personnal opinion is that ATI will find a solution for their compatibility problems and they will offer better products than Nvidia in the futur.

Rogodin
01-01-2004, 04:10 PM
ATI no question.

Better drivers, more stable, lower clock rates, cooler, smaller, higher IQ, faster, and cheaper.

Only a diehard nvidiot would suggest otherwise.

even though I don't like tom's hardware he has a large shootout where ati takes the cake-and he IS A NOTORIOUS Nvidia psychophant.

rogo

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rick_475
01-01-2004, 04:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
even though I don't like tom's hardware he has a large shootout where ati takes the cake-and he IS A NOTORIOUS Nvidia psychophant.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right Tom's Hardware isn't a good source of information, this guy must get bribes. I get my source of infos from http://anandtech.com/, they run the best hardware website in my opinion.

rick_475
01-01-2004, 05:01 PM
Another disadvantage of the Nvidia card is that there is too many brands. Per exemple the Nvidia card from Asus might not be as powerful as the Gainward. Each brand has its advantages and disadvantages and it seems they can't put all the advantages in 1 brand.

Xiolablu3
01-01-2004, 07:18 PM
I think these 2 are pretty much even at the moment and it depends on what kind of deal u can get for the range of card you are wanting for (low end, mid range,top end)

Avoid the GF 5200, 5600 or 5800 tho.

Good cards at the moment are the GF5700/Radeon9600 - mid range
GF5900/5950/Radeon 9700/9800 - high end

Or if you want a REALLY good budget card which plays FB just fine then get yourself a Radeon 8500 off ebay for about 25(!) like I did for our second system. This is a card with pixel shaders (nice water) and is between a GF3TI500 and GF4TI4200 in speed (much faster than a GF5200). Just fine for FB http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The Radeon 8500 is the best value card by far for the price they are selling for now. It is faster than the 9000/9100/9200 Radeons and the GeForce 5200 so dont be fooled by the numbers.

Both ATI and nvidia have a few problems with drivers nowadays. Nvidia used to rule the roost in this department, but now ATIs driver support has got a LOT better and Nvidias has got a bit worse (the new 5x.xx drivers do NOTHING for anything other than the FX line of cards leaving GF3/4 owners wanting :/)

Don't worry about the brand u get, they are too close to call at the moment. Just make sure u get a good deal on the card you DO get. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Hope this helps people unsure on which to buy.

TheGozr
01-02-2004, 12:30 AM
the 9800 pro 128 is my first choice now.

Just hesitating for the 256mb version realy...

-GOZR

B16Enk
01-02-2004, 07:38 AM
Going to be interesting.

I have a crappy nVidia TI4200 128 (Inno3D made it from shavings on the floor at nVidia's fab plant http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and it's about to move over for an ATI 9600XT.

I wanted the 9800XT but having just dropped 500+ on it and a new Mobo/CPU/RAM/disk for my wifes ailing machine (she was making comments on how slow it was http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif) I couldn't justify the spend of an additional 200 on a 9800.

It was a toss-up between the 5700 Ultra and the 9600XT. As I was in 'impulse buying mode' and the store didn't have the nVidia card I'm now an ATI owner. I'll let you know how I fare http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thanks for the heads up on my number confusion Cap!

[This message was edited by B16Enk on Fri January 02 2004 at 06:52 AM.]

blabla0001
01-02-2004, 07:41 AM
You mean a 9700 (Pro), there are not 9700XT cards, only 9600XT and 9800XT.

LeadSpitter_
01-02-2004, 07:49 AM
I'd personally wait for the 512k cards coming out this quarter.

As of now the nvidia 5950 vs the ati 9800 256k "made by ati" are pretty even the 9800 is quicker in AA and AF which does make a difference is crispness and is slightly faster at rendering both are close in price but you get more for your money with the radeon 9800 256k. The fx 5950 gets 1-2 fps more then the radeon 9800 256k XT 1600x1200 but the graphics are so much sharper more detail and better lighting fx that blows the image quality of the nvidia 5950 out of the water

Dont buy 3rd party ati cards they are the ones having problems

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[This message was edited by LeadSpitter_ on Fri January 02 2004 at 06:57 AM.]

blabla0001
01-02-2004, 07:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
Dont buy 3rd party ati cards they are the ones having problems<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The ones from Hercules and Sapphire are just as good as the build by Ati.

LeadSpitter_
01-02-2004, 08:01 AM
read the ati forums the Sapphire is the bad one, not working well with the new drivers it also is compairable to the ati 9700 which is bad. Look at the benchmarks for the sapphire card

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B16Enk
01-02-2004, 08:03 AM
Pretty good rejoinder there Baldie!

At least you guys are keeping it civil http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I am feeling some concern now about my purchase deciscion. Apart from the fact that I don't know the difference between a 6 and a 7 (thanks again Cap) I am now looking at my ATI box wishing it was from one of the top partners, instead of Connect whoever.....http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

blabla0001
01-02-2004, 10:25 AM
Ugh, Connect 3D?

Oh well, at least it's not Club 3D, those are really bad.

blabla0001
01-02-2004, 10:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:
read the ati forums the Sapphire is the bad one, not working well with the new drivers it also is compairable to the ati 9700 which is bad. Look at the benchmarks for the sapphire card<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read a few reviews on the Sapphire 9800XT and I didn't read anything bad about it so far, maybe something new has popped up.

I own a Hercules 3D Prophet 9700 Pro right now and it's a great card and they work well on the Catalyst drivers from Ati.
I haven't even installed any of the Hercules drivers for it so far.

Burning_stick
01-02-2004, 11:19 AM
whats cool about all that it's that we learn.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

so 256 mb or 128 for now?

TheGozr
01-02-2004, 11:30 AM
oops wrong name It's me GOZR ( burning_stick )

-GOZR

blabla0001
01-02-2004, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Burning_stick:
whats cool about all that it's that we learn.. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

so 256 mb or 128 for now?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As far as I heard the extra 128mb won't add anything with current games, but it's up to you if you want to spend the extra bucks on it anyway.

SG1_Tte.Costa
01-02-2004, 03:29 PM
S. All Gents!
So...
There not much diference in betwen 128/256 but the price?

Vista, suerte y al toro.

blabla0001
01-02-2004, 03:32 PM
For todays games 256mb graphics carda are kinda overkill.

Bearcat99
01-02-2004, 07:51 PM
Well I am a die hard ATI guy..... I have a 9500 Pro in my rig...uhh I HAD a 9500 Pro in my rig. Now I have a GFTi4400..(I got it for $20!! PNY!!) I put my 9500 Pro on my wife's computer that I put together for her for Christmas (actually it was my old XP1600 w 1G of 266 DDR in a new case with a new flat panel 18.1 inch monitor, wirekess keyboard & mouse and a new desk...glass & chrome.."Ooooo!!! Honey I looovee it!!!") about an hour ago. I was hesitant about giving up my 9500 Pro...but the card came with no drivers and I had the 9500 on my old HD (which is also in the "new" box for my wife....just a new case really... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif) so I figured what the hey..since the drivers are already on there...I'll experiment with this 4400 on my box....I must say..and I know it is more of a lateral move because I dont see any real difference in FPS and the cards are contemporaries..but I do see a difference in texture......they seem richer with this card.. I havent owned a GF card since my GF2 (which is in my daugter's computer) I had a 9000Pro128 after that (Now in my son's computer..) before I got the 9500 Pro. I dont know how the new Nvidia stuff is but I like this Ti4400. It isnt bad at all.. It benchmarks pretty close to the 9500.... on AMD boards it is less than 1 FPS in difference. My next card will most likely be a 9800XT..but I must say I AM pleased with Nvidia. I know it's an old card but still.... Plus I figured since I have a Nvidia chipset in my Asus mobo......

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[This message was edited by Bearcat99 on Fri January 02 2004 at 07:02 PM.]

US_8th_Dosiere
01-02-2004, 09:48 PM
I am not impressed with ATi at all. My 9700 Pro is fast but I have no end of graphical "glitches" when playing any of my games. Six different driver versions haven't fixed the problems. Some have gone away, but every version just adds more. ATi is crap as far as I am concerned.

Tully_78th
01-02-2004, 10:42 PM
The mutual discrediting society will please hold their meetings elsewhere. If you have something to add to the topic, by all means, but do not attack previous posters directly. If you feel that information provided is erroneous, say what you believe is correct and why. Calling the original source names does your own credibility no good.

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ArgonV
01-03-2004, 01:09 AM
I had a GeForce 4 Ti4600 AGP 4x on my system, GeForce 3 on my older system and a GeForce 2 MX400 on my really old system and went ATI for the first time 2 months ago. I must say I am MOST IMPRESSED with the performace and image quality I got from my new Built By ATI 9800 Pro. I was a die-hard NVIDIA fan for quite some time but lately with their debut FX fiasco and some of the driver problems, I went ATI. Plus I've read in many reviews that the hi-end ATI cards perform MUCH better with DX 9 implimentation than the NVIDIA cards do...

Running Cat 3.10 here and I will never go back to NVIDIA any time soon!!!

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CARBONFREEZE
01-03-2004, 03:27 AM
If you have to get a card now, get the 9800XT or 9800 PRO. But if you can wait, there are some nice graphics cards on PCIX.

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B16Enk
01-05-2004, 05:30 AM
Well a 9800XT was my aim but money wouldnt allow, besides I need to spend some on real life issues like my Landrover http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif.

Card went in Ok, did the driver strip-out first, and results were very promising.

The reboot bug caught me out, once, when I tried perfect with the Cat 3.10.

FPS seems to be up, not tried blackdeath track yet, but the Aquamark score was very good.

Jumped from sub 10k points with TI4200 to 35K!

Drivers are definately more fiddly than nVidia - but that may just be because of my longstanding nVidia association.

Hristo_
01-05-2004, 05:56 AM
I was rather enthusiastic about my 9700PRO / nforce2 combo, but I hardly kept myself from throwing ATI through the window. It just kept crashin in any 3d applications with 3.7, 3.9 and 3.10.

My old GeForce 400 MX never caused such problems.

It was so bad, I couldn't even complete 3dMark03 most of the times. Same thing in FB, kept crashing after couple of minutes. Did full Windows reinstall, chipset drivers reinstall, differetn BIOS settings, AGP speeds, various drivers, I even checked the card cooler and applied new layer of thermal paste.

In the end, I went to 3.5 drivers and Direct3D - only this way it works. Framerates and qwuality are acceptable, Perfect mode ain't working of course http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

B16Enk
01-05-2004, 06:06 AM
Mines an nForce combo too.

Asus A7N8X Deluxe rev 2.0.

I swapped the wifes new board for my old rev 1.0 board (my bro told her yesterday and I got some hassle for that LOL) and that gave me loads of grief.

I now get the Display zero error when I install the drivers, apparently ATI don't know what causes it, but the drivers do install Ok.

FB runs very stable, without perfect, but I have followed Hunter82's 1.21 settings guide in the tech support forum.

Steve_V has also posted the removal procedure a few times, something that should become part of a sticky over in tech support IMHO.

Have you those settings Hristo?

Zayets
01-05-2004, 06:25 AM
I own this Leadtek Ti4600 for about 2 years. This card still amazes me. When I bought this card there was no ATI that could match it. I knew this will last only few months.By the begining of the last year ,ATI shown their power as well.But this is months after my 4600. I know ATI is the card now , I've had a chance to play on a 9800XT and Ii must admit , it beats the crapp outta any card. Acccompanied by a 3.0 Ghz and 1 Gb RAM you will not need anything else. There's a thingie here though. The performance is about 20% more in ATI's favor.Thee price makes it almost untouchable when it comes to nVidia. I would very much like an XT but can't afford it now. And I'm really confident that this year better cards will hit the shelves.At the same price we see an XT now. One thing is sure , at least for me, having the big video card does not means you have everything in place o run everything maxed out.Therefore ,maybe at the end of the year I will go for a whole new system. And that means I will choose the video card then.Until then , my Ti4600 is doing the job PERFECTLY. No glitch , no stutter ,no tears. I'm still happy with it and I will not trash it. It plays EVERY game I own. No need to say more.

Hristo_
01-05-2004, 06:27 AM
Abit NF7-S rev 2.0 here, with ATI 9700 PRO.

Thanks for the tips B16Enk, but right now I'm too scared to experiment. For now I will just play the game, not trying to be a IT engineer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Hunter's tips look interesting, will certainly apply those settings.

blabla0001
01-05-2004, 06:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hristo_:
I was rather enthusiastic about my 9700PRO / nforce2 combo, but I hardly kept myself from throwing ATI through the window. It just kept crashin in any 3d applications with 3.7, 3.9 and 3.10.

My old GeForce 400 MX never caused such problems.

It was so bad, I couldn't even complete 3dMark03 most of the times. Same thing in FB, kept crashing after couple of minutes. Did full Windows reinstall, chipset drivers reinstall, differetn BIOS settings, AGP speeds, various drivers, I even checked the card cooler and applied new layer of thermal paste.

In the end, I went to 3.5 drivers and Direct3D - only this way it works. Framerates and qwuality are acceptable, Perfect mode ain't working of course http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ever thought about returning your card to have it checked out?
It sure sounds like it is busted.

I too have a Nforce2 mainboard with a Radeon 9700 Pro from Hercules and so far I have had zero problems with it.

Hunter82
01-05-2004, 07:48 AM
On yours you may want to increase AGP voltage from stock 1.5 to 1.6 or even 1.7 in the BIOS. Sometimes increasing AGP voltage in the BIOS will help smooth out any issues with CTD's. This is generally because PSU's have slight fluctuations under load. Allocating a higher voltage will help keep it above the danger threshhold. Do not go higher than 1.7 unless you are overclocking the card seriously high. 1.6 usually works well for most.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hristo_:
Abit NF7-S rev 2.0 here, with ATI 9700 PRO.

Thanks for the tips B16Enk, but right now I'm too scared to experiment. For now I will just play the game, not trying to be a IT engineer http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Hunter's tips look interesting, will certainly apply those settings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

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Hunter82
01-05-2004, 08:00 AM
Also any users who have graphical issues and have a SiS chipset...you may want to contact SiS and see if they are ever going to properly fix their AGP drivers. SiS has had a long standing problem with their AGP drivers and graphics corruption for about 2 years.

Perfect example was a Gigabyte Sin1394XP with a SiS 655 chipset in the last 2 weeks. 9700 Pro exhibited flashing textures and what looked like speckles from a bad core overclock just in IL2 only. Take the card out and test it on multiple boards no issues even on a serious overclock. Back in the SIN and speckles at stock and overclocked. The owner purchased a new IC7 mobo and is happy with no issues. I've seen alot of issues with SiS chipsets on my own stuff and personally will not ever own another of their boards or recommend them. Gigabyte makes great boards but any company using a SiS chipset be it Asus,Abit,Gigabyte, etc is going to have problems unless SiS does something with their drivers. IMO and not a representation of UBI,ATI, or 1C.

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Bearcat99
01-05-2004, 08:48 AM
I wound up taking the Ti4400 off my rig and putting it on th wifes and getting back my 9500Pro.. The FRs were pretty much equal but the overall image quality was better on the 9500 IMO. I still wou;ldnt rule out Nvidia in the future though but for now I am an ATI guy...

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himmit
01-05-2004, 12:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>*snipp* Since Nvidia bought AMD, I don't think those 2 companies will show off great stuff on a short or medium period of time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

nvidia bought amd ? you got to be kidding me
provide links and press realeases please

I'dont give a rats *** about this nvidi ati jihad but that just sound like utter ****

Yep look below...fneb

[Nvidia buys Amd April Fool (http://www20.tomshardware.com/column/20020401/)