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TheGozr
02-11-2005, 04:52 PM
Climb rate.

Yak-3 ~1,225hp/ engine VK-105PF / climb rate 4,265 ft a minute/ 35,450 ceiling ft

yak9U ~1650hp/ engine VK-107A / climb rate 4,920 ft a minute/ ceiling 39,040 ft

in game the yak 3 has a superior climb rate.. why?
In game the Yak9U is simce totally not accurate and climb like with the 105 engine and act like the 107 on top speed or almost i would say.

Now you have to anderstand that in game it should have the 107 engine since the 1945 yak 9UT have the same specs wich never came with an 105 engine.

The P51D for example climb rate is 3,475 ft/m and in game is superior.. why?

TheGozr
02-11-2005, 04:52 PM
Climb rate.

Yak-3 ~1,225hp/ engine VK-105PF / climb rate 4,265 ft a minute/ 35,450 ceiling ft

yak9U ~1650hp/ engine VK-107A / climb rate 4,920 ft a minute/ ceiling 39,040 ft

in game the yak 3 has a superior climb rate.. why?
In game the Yak9U is simce totally not accurate and climb like with the 105 engine and act like the 107 on top speed or almost i would say.

Now you have to anderstand that in game it should have the 107 engine since the 1945 yak 9UT have the same specs wich never came with an 105 engine.

The P51D for example climb rate is 3,475 ft/m and in game is superior.. why?

ku101-Von-B
02-11-2005, 05:48 PM
wasnt the Yak 3 lighter than the Yak 9's?

that would explain the greater climb rate

Willey
02-11-2005, 06:01 PM
TO weight:

Yak-3 ~2700kg
Yak-9U ~3200kg

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

TheGozr
02-11-2005, 06:58 PM
P51 is 10000 lbs and has a better rate how bad is that basicly 3000 lbs more than the yak 9U

yak9U as also 500 hps more than the yak3. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TheGozr
02-11-2005, 08:01 PM
I wish papa Oleg could see this.

S.taibanzai
02-11-2005, 09:22 PM
Send him a E-mail with a track or some sort

and wwith the disciption of wat is wrong

Badsight.
02-11-2005, 09:29 PM
Yak-3 in FB does not have 1220 Hp

VK-105PF were rated up to 1500 Hp IIRC

Badsight.
02-11-2005, 09:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
yak9U as also _500_ hps more than the yak3. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>no it doesnt

at best , the Vk-107 developed 1650 Hp , but it produced less than that when it was first produced

i see Yak-3 Vk-105 PF rated from 1250 Hp to 1300 Hp on internet sites , but i thought the Yak-3 in FB was set at 1500 in the Object Viewer ?

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 12:25 AM
the yak9U is very much conciderate like a monster with his original HP even today.

The yak3 in game has teh 105PF2 with 1240 hp ( 1225HP ) the yak 9 has the 107 with 1500 in game ( 1650/1700 real ). SO since teh U and UT has the same performance in all aspects teh Yak 9UT would have 1500 HP by you.. but the 1945 yak9UT never came with an engine lower than 1650 hp, Something is fishy here.


3 years ago during some testing of a yak9UM with a V12 ~1250 Hp with a P51 the yak totaly outmanouver it at ease with a less powered engine than the original.
In ww2 the P51 D would not even come close .

Badsight.
02-12-2005, 12:42 AM
Vk-107 when first made produced 1500 Hp

be sure

Yak-3 Vk-105 PF motor had up to 1300 TO Hp according to some web-sites , but i cant find any saying as low as 1220 TO Hp

what does the Object Viewer say as its the data both the -3 & the -9U are moddeled on

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 02:53 AM
(Yak-1M) one 1,260 hp Klimov VK-105PF vee-12 liquid-cooled

(Yak 3)1,225 hp VK-105PF-2

(Yak 9U) 1,650 hp VK-107A

yak 3 and Yak3U are very different (radial ASh-82FN engine).

The whole thing is just Fishy... I just hope that for the next Patch this differnces must be fixed.

Maple_Tiger
02-12-2005, 10:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Climb rate.

Yak-3 ~1,225hp/ engine VK-105PF / climb rate 4,265 ft a minute/ 35,450 ceiling ft

yak9U ~1650hp/ engine VK-107A / climb rate 4,920 ft a minute/ ceiling 39,040 ft

in game the yak 3 has a superior climb rate.. why?
In game the Yak9U is simce totally not accurate and climb like with the 105 engine and act like the 107 on top speed or almost i would say.

Now you have to anderstand that in game it should have the 107 engine since the 1945 yak 9UT have the same specs wich never came with an 105 engine.

The P51D for example climb rate is 3,475 ft/m and in game is superior.. why? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



I just tride the Yak-3 and Yak-9U in the quick mission builder. The Yak-3 seemed to climb a little better than the Yak-9U. Then I tride the P-51D a couple of times.

Going up against two Doras, the Yak-3 and Yak-9U would both be at about 3450m alt by the time the Doras were under me. I bairly got the P-51D to 3200m alt when the doras were under me.



My point, go a head and send Oleg an e-mail. lol. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

robban75
02-12-2005, 12:28 PM
The Yak-9U outclimbs the Yak-3 in-game. See below.

Climb test done over Crimea, full fuel, full power.

Type - Yak3 -Yak9U

1000 - :44 - :43
2000 - 1:29 - 1:25
3000 - 2:16 - 2:09
4000 - 3:04 - 2:53
5000 - 3:59 - 3:38

m/sec

1000 - 22.7 - 23.3
2000 - 22.2 - 23.8
3000 - 21.3 - 22.2
4000 - 20.8 - 22.7
5000 - 18.2 - 22.2

ft/min

1000 - 4467 - 4585
2000 - 4368 - 4683
3000 - 4191 - 4368
4000 - 4099 - 4467
5000 - 3577 - 4368

Badsight.
02-12-2005, 12:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
yak 3 and Yak3U are very different (radial ASh-82FN engine). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yak-3U was the all-metal Yak-3 with the in-line Klimov Vk-107 V12

Yak-3M was a prototype Yak-3 airframe with the La-5 Ash-82 18 cylinder radial motor in the nose

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 12:51 PM
Badsight. You got it mixed.

Robban I like your humour, I like how the yak3 kills the yak9U even above 4K..

This is the Yak3U
http://www.schatzbuddler.de/Bilder/hahnweide/flieger/yak3U-5.jpg

http://www.schatzbuddler.de/Bilder/hahnweide/flieger/Yak3U-4.jpg

robban75
02-12-2005, 12:56 PM
No jokes Gozr, the Yak-9U owns the Yak-3 in everything but turn rate/radius. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

And it's also better looking! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 12:59 PM
In Real life the Yak9U owned the Yak3 and still do today.

But look your time on your post. The Yak3 is superior as same in IL2Compare data.

I do think the Yak9U is the best looking Yaks

robban75
02-12-2005, 01:05 PM
I mixed them up, I'm sorry for the misshap. It's corrected now. The Yak-9U is no doubt the better performer.

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 01:08 PM
YAK-3
Altitudes SPEED m/s

0 567 23.9671
100 568 23.973898
200 570 23.992167
300 572 24.044165
400 574 24.095156
500 576 24.145107
600 578 24.193987
700 580 24.241789
800 582 24.28851
900 584 24.334137
1000 587 24.378653
1100 589 24.42206
1200 591 24.464329
1300 594 24.50547
1400 596 24.545458
1500 598 24.571821
1600 601 24.219332
1700 603 23.86827
1800 606 23.520191
1900 608 23.175055
2000 610 22.83283
2100 613 22.49355
2200 613 22.181746
2300 613 22.348866
2400 612 22.512875
2500 611 22.674034
2600 611 22.832052
2700 610 22.987053
2800 609 23.138996
2900 611 23.28772
3000 615 23.433466
3100 618 23.575937
3200 622 23.715218
3300 625 23.851322
3400 629 23.589443
3500 632 23.226542
3600 636 22.866735
3700 639 22.510002
3800 643 22.156303
3900 646 21.805613
4000 650 21.457903
4100 651 21.113134
4200 650 20.77133
4300 649 20.432436
4400 648 20.096395
4500 648 19.763186
4600 647 19.432762
4700 646 19.1051
4800 645 18.78021
4900 644 18.458097
5000 643 18.138653
-----

Yak-9U
Altitudes SPEED m/s

0 585 21.260593
100 587 21.263689
200 589 21.27311
300 591 21.311087
400 593 21.348118
500 595 21.38422
600 597 21.419367
700 599 21.45355
800 601 21.486763
900 604 21.518995
1000 606 21.550236
1100 608 21.580473
1200 611 21.609695
1300 613 21.637953
1400 616 21.665195
1500 618 21.69139
1600 620 21.716528
1700 623 21.740585
1800 625 21.448458
1900 628 21.13291
2000 630 20.820004
2100 632 20.509712
2200 635 20.202005
2300 637 19.896856
2400 640 20.002165
2500 639 20.144701
2600 638 20.284208
2700 637 20.420807
2800 637 20.554388
2900 636 20.684874
3000 636 20.812346
3100 639 20.93672
3200 643 21.057905
3300 647 21.17587
3400 650 21.290724
3500 654 21.402273
3600 658 21.510489
3700 661 21.615318
3800 665 21.716774
3900 669 21.814814
4000 672 21.909328
4100 676 22.000267
4200 679 21.877712
4300 683 21.534122
4400 686 21.193422
4500 689 20.855574
4600 693 20.52055
4700 696 20.188326
4800 700 19.858883
4900 703 19.532175
5000 705 19.208227

Data from il2 engine

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 01:09 PM
Robban i agree teh yak9U is suppose to be the better performer but look at the real ingame data. It cannot be more exact than this.

robban75
02-12-2005, 01:25 PM
If I understand the IL2 compare correctly, it is based on how the AI can perform. And the Yak-3 is certainly a more dangerous foe than the Yak-9U when flown by the AI IMO.
But with human players, the Yak-3 wont outclimb the 9U.

Badsight.
02-12-2005, 01:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Badsight. You got it mixed.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>no i didnt

only one Yak-3M ever made

http://www.vectorsite.net/avyak1.html
The single "Yak-3M-82" built was fitted with the Shvetsov M-82 two-row fourteen cylinder radial engine, used on the La-5 fighter, and first flown in May 1945. Performance was very good and the aircraft was extremely agile, but with jet fighters coming on line, there was no push to develop the concept further, and the project was abandoned in October 1945.

http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/Yak-3U.html
(U denotes Usilennyj or strengthened) The first version with complete metal fabrication, a VK-107 engine and armed with three 20 mm cannon.

http://francewarbirds.free.fr/en/yak3fazly.html
The Garric Warbirds company is located in Harlingen, Texas, USA. It is managed by a French director: Jean-Marie "John" Garric. Its company is currently building two Yak-3Us for French owners in Normandy: Jean-Luc Langeard and Jean-Marie Delimbeuf.
It uses a dismantled genuine Yak-3U, the body being hunged up on the assembly hangar ceiling. A jig has been made out of it, this allows to build a 100% identical fuselage. The only difference remains on the engine side of the structure: adjustments had to be made to fit the 1470 hp Allison V1710-111 replacing the Klimov VK 107 used on the original Yak-3.

The original Yak-3s had wooden wings, but the "John" Garric Yak-3 is a U model with metal wings (100% identical to the Yak-11). Because of the material difference, the gravity center had moved rearward. YAKOVLEV had to move back the canopy by 400 mm. The diameter of the fuselage tube structure is larger between the Yak-3U and the Yak-11.
Only few YAK-3U were built from mid-1945.

Yak-3U is not the Radial Yak-3

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 04:56 PM
SO how do you call this yak3??

http://www.schatzbuddler.de/Bilder/hahnweide/flieger/Yak3U-4.jpg

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 05:15 PM
Looking at some good things here.

The yak3

Propulsion
Engine: Packard V-1650-7
Power (total): 1 695 HP
Specific power: 491 HP / ton
Maximum speed: 745 kph
Service ceiling: 12 954 meters
Range: 1 204 km

Yak3 Klimov M-107 A, It entered service at the start of 1945, Quantity: 100 examples

Engine: Klimov M-107 A
Power (total): 1 700 HP
Specific power: 570 HP / ton
Maximum speed: 720 kph
Service ceiling: 11 800 meters
Range: 830 km

Yak9U
Propulsion
Engine: Klimov M-107 A
Power (total): 1 650 HP
Specific power: 521 HP / ton
Maximum speed: 698 kph
Initial climb: 1500 m/min.
Service ceiling: 12 060 meters
Range: 925 km


P51D
Propulsion
Engine: Packard V-1650-7
Power (total): 1 695 HP
Specific power: 370 HP / ton
Maximum speed: 703 kph
Initial climb: 1059 m/min.
Service ceiling: 12 771 meters
Range: 1 759 km

P51F

Propulsion
Engine: Packard V-1650-7
Power (total): 1 695 HP
Specific power: 491 HP / ton
Maximum speed: 745 kph
Service ceiling: 12 954 meters
Range: 1 204 km

Badsight.
02-12-2005, 09:28 PM
take a close look Gozr , here is the Yak-3M prototype

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v18/Badsight/Yak-3MAsh82Radial.jpg

apparently the Yakolev factory only made one , the plane in your picture is a Yak with a Radial , but whos to know who fitted it & wether its a modified Yak-3 airframe or a Yak-11 airframe modified

fact is there wasnt any production Yak-3M with the Ash-82 Radial . there was a small production run of Yak-3's with the Klimov Vk-107 motor . . . . . . these were called Yak-3U

Badsight.
02-12-2005, 09:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
SO how do you call this yak3?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>i wouldnt , because its a Yak-11

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 09:56 PM
Towards the end of the War in 1944, Yakovlev's Design Bureau at Saratov began to experiment with a versions of the superb Yak-3 mounting increasingly powerful engines. Of these, the Yak- 3U was the most daring. Mating the 1,850 hp ASh-82FN twin-row radial to the tiny Yak-3 airframe was indeed bold, but in the event the prototype gave little trouble.
Much more of a complete redesign than its external appearance would suggest, the new model was built around a revised wing of 9.4 m span with larger chord, this mounted forward on the fuselage some 21.9 cm to improve the center-of-gravity. The pilot's chair was also moved aft slightly in the same vein, but apart from that the rear fuslege was essentially similar to a 1945 standard Yak-3.
Testing of the Yak-3U was very successful. Performance in the new variant was blistering--it could acheive 438 mph at 19,250 ft., and climb initially at the unheard of rate of nearly 5,800 ft./min. Maneuverability was astonishing in the -3U, and no known fighter could stay with the type in combat flight. Indeed, the prototype was retained by the Yakovlev OKB staff in flyable condition for years after the War, and they delighted in pitting the Yak-3U against both domestic and foreign aircraft; no machine ever came close to matching it.

TheGozr
02-12-2005, 10:03 PM
Something is weird here i feel it's the same with teh MIG 3U call I230,231 gived the MIG 9 , also same name with a totally different planes is the Mig 9 one of the first jets...

Badsight.
02-12-2005, 10:21 PM
nothing is wierd here , just that many sites get the single prototype Yak-3M mixed up with the production Yak-3U

U for Usilennyj or strengthened

which is what the metal skinned Yak-9U was & the metal Yak-3U was , no radial , just the Klimov Vk-107 motor

http://www.btinternet.com/~lee_mail/Yak-3U.html

CTO88
02-13-2005, 06:23 AM
wk-105pf2 had 1290PS nominal power at sealevel and 1240PS at second stage ~2100m.

wk-107 had 1500PS nominal and 1650PS wep, this was 50PS as planned for wep.

typical weight for yak-3 was 2700kg, for yak-9u 3200kg.

so yak-3 @ SL 477PS/t yak-9u 468PS/t (nom.) and 515PS/t (wep)

yak-9u should climb better overall. at nominal power 9u and 3 are the same up to 2000m, but above 9u climbs better, cause 107 has better altitude perfomance.

i 've no reason for that, but zagi states 4,5min for yak-3 and 5,0min for yak-9u in 5000m climb. (both nominal)

TheGozr
02-13-2005, 08:49 AM
yeap like i said something fishy here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Badsight.
02-13-2005, 10:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
Climb rate.in game the yak 3 has a superior climb rate.. why?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>it doesnt , look at Robbans test , Yak-3 is only better at turn-rate

-9U is faster & climbs faster

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by robban75:
The Yak-9U outclimbs the Yak-3 in-game. See below.

Climb test done over Crimea, full fuel, full power.

Type - Yak3 -Yak9U

1000 - :44 - :43
2000 - 1:29 - 1:25
3000 - 2:16 - 2:09
4000 - 3:04 - 2:53
5000 - 3:59 - 3:38

m/sec

1000 - 22.7 - 23.3
2000 - 22.2 - 23.8
3000 - 21.3 - 22.2
4000 - 20.8 - 22.7
5000 - 18.2 - 22.2

ft/min

1000 - 4467 - 4585
2000 - 4368 - 4683
3000 - 4191 - 4368
4000 - 4099 - 4467
5000 - 3577 - 4368 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TheGozr
02-13-2005, 10:54 PM
The angle is different climb far but not higher yak3 faster in less distance this is what count.

Badsight.
02-13-2005, 11:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>faster in less distance this is what count <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>if your in a slow turning DogFight this is true , but your flying the 9U wrong if you do that

out climbing is out climbing

in close dogfighting the -9U never was better than the -3

fly properly & you wont get out-climbed in a 9U by the -3 . greater speed is the 9Us advantage , at close-to-stall speeds the lighter Yak3 was probably faster climbing IRL too

but 9U will out-climb Yak-3

your beginning to sound like your whining , the 9U wasnt totally better than the 3 at all , but it is faster & climbs better

TheGozr
02-13-2005, 11:48 PM
In my phrase that mean exactly this the yak 3 like you said is outcliming the 9U.
The whine is more into the turning speed of the yak 9 ingame. I'm just probably use to the real 9U-M and it doesn't react that way.

we can totally do some tests, you get the yak9U i get the yak3 and we test side by sides.
It's always better to test that way we know what we can do with those planes.

Badsight.
02-14-2005, 01:27 AM
no it isnt

the best way to test planes performance is to fly both yourself back to back repeatedly & to fly against the clock holding the same speed in both A/C

i didnt say the Yak-3 climbs better , due to its lighter weight it might initially climb better but that is a different thing to what Robban or myself have talked about up untill now

the results dont lie

Yak-9U gets to 5K quicker than the Yak-3 does & its faster , the question you originally posted
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Climb rate.in game the yak 3 has a superior climb rate.. why?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>is wrong as is this posting it here & making this thread

DF performance isnt a true test of plane capabilities ,but all too often people without proper discipline in their flying come here & post wrong & incorrect opinions after loosing online

just like flying FW-109 A4s against Spitfires , you have to fly a certian way & the -9U can come out on top of the -3

same with La-7 over Yak-3

TheGozr
02-14-2005, 01:57 AM
BTW robban told me an other story about the Yak3U curious to hear him again. I'm still perplex on this one as well as the MiG-9 names.

There is nothing todo with my abilities to fly the yak9 Online, loose or win and quite far from it btw. Must be an obsession to you and probably very hard for you to loose Online, I'm sorry if it did happen to you.
If we members cannot come here and search for answers about how some planes are duplicate INgame it will be sad.
I repeat again the yak9U act weird Ingame.
in Online Competition i fly in many occasions The yak3/3P or yak9U/UT pretty much all the yak's it doesn't matter to me .

It happen that I fly the yak9U and i'm shure you don't that mean that i can tell you something is fishy and I can ashure you.

I cannot be more clear.
I try to separate the reactions of the plane and the G force effects on your body, and still the plane is too soft, too boaty Online and a bit more stuff .

Intead of accusing with no sens maybe help me to figure out what is wrong.
I'm not a too terrible pilot on a yak Online i think.

If someone from somewhere else would say i fly the 109G2 and would say that the 109 is wrongly made,would you look to see if some data are incorrect?

Badsight.
02-14-2005, 02:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
I'm sorry if it did happen to you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>no need to be , winning & looseing happens everytime i fly . but this thread isnt about how well i do against other people

you have said the Yak-3 outclimbs the 9U

it doesnt

what is it that your trying to say is wrong ?

TheGozr
02-14-2005, 07:31 PM
Badsight look at this it's very interesting and interpret the newest data with the hardball software/

http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/mudmovers/Sims/FB/files/HardBalls_Viewer_AirWarfareUpload.zip

Badsight.
02-14-2005, 09:14 PM
HOW ABOUT YOU DO A TEST OF YOUR OWN !

time yourself holding 300 Kmh in a climb & post here your results of the Yak-3 & the Yak-9U

Hardballs viewer in previous versions DID NOT use FB game data but used REAL LIFE data to make up its tables , doesnt this one also use RL data ?

TheGozr
02-14-2005, 09:46 PM
LOL..

TheGozr
02-15-2005, 01:36 AM
Yak-9UT vs Yak3
Both from 80m 500km/h , radiator closed and trimed, max speed, 50% gas. Probably both plane can do better it's just a regular test.

Yak-9UT 1945 Power-to-weight 0.46, max power 1650HP

500m 390km/h min/Sec
1000 270 0.08
1500 200 0.30
1800 200 0.44
2000 180 0.51
2500 190 1.16
2800 190 1.29
3000 180 1.38
3500 160 2.02
3800 160 2.18
3900 160 2.23
4000 150 2.29

Yak-3 1944 Power-to-weight 0.46, max power 1290HP

500m km/h min/Sec
1000 260 0.07
1500
1800 200 0.37
2000 180 0.45
2500 170 1.09
2800 170 1.26
3000 170 1.36
3500 160 2.01
3800 170 2.18
3900 160 2.22
4000 150 2.28

This is a first test.