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Cartesian214
02-24-2011, 10:33 AM
Heroes is a very deep game that provides specific gameplay to a small audience. I believe a key to its growth is to expand the variety of its gameplay to cater to a broader group of gamers. Here are some prototype ideas for multiplayer that can make the game much more fun for specific groups:

-Death forgiveness mode. If two humans are playing multiplayer with AI and one of them accidentally loses his entire army to map creeps, the other human can "forgive" him and some or all of the army will be returned. Hardcore gamers would groan at the idea, but many people know what it feels like to lose 40 minutes of work because their friend who is new to the game died in the dragon shrine before they even met each other.

-AI unit adjustment. AI armies adjust themselves if they become stronger or weaker than the players by a certain amount. The boundaries could be adjustable with a slider, between AI armies only getting adjusted in cases of extreme difference and the AI always having the exact same army strength as the player.

-Reduced Randomization. For competitive players who want a fair fight, if one player gets archers guarding his sawmill, the other one does too. Random map spawns do not block paths.

-Duel Mode. For a specific map, players are given a slice that they can play in single-player mode. They play for a set number of turns and then save the game. Duel mode allows both players to load their "slice" with existing armies into a multiplayer game and play from there. This is effectively a custom accelerated start for games: you can build up the army you want on your own game, then have a quick slugfest with your friend without spending an hour in the same game to get nice big armies.

Infiltrator-SF
02-24-2011, 11:07 AM
I agree with the reduced randomization option. If I am playing a MP scenario, there should be a tick for "equilibrium" of some sort - every player gets the same corresponding guards on resources and artifacts. Often, the difference between marksmen and peasants guarding the same thing can lead to a snowball effect later in the game.

As for death forgiveness, I wholeheartedly disagree. The game has undergone some major simplifications (like resource system) to make it more appealing to the masses. Part of the charm is learning when you are ready for attack. You learn this by making mistakes - if you can just undo them, you are just harboring bad habits.

I don't agree with the AI just looking at your army and scaling his comparatively. If you're good enough to defeat an AI when starting with 0 resources, I want to meet him in full force, not something scaled back because my army will obviously be inferior at the beginning. In the same way, if you're playing an easy setting, you want the fight to be easy, if the AI scaled then there would be no point to it.

As for Dueling mode, something similar is already available in H5.

Cartesian214
02-24-2011, 11:21 AM
I understand your concern and expected it, but I still think the game needs broader appeal.

Heroes V is in a class all by itself, mixing RPG with turn-based strategy. It's also the most unforgiving game I've ever played (besides Eve Online lol)

I don't think people SHOULD use death forgiveness or AI scaling; I certainly wouldn't. But over time I've learned the importance of not taking yourself too seriously and allowing people to do what they want.

Most Heroes players are already mature and can deal with a few army losses, but if a single death forgiveness will make the difference between my 14-year old cousin playing the game a second time or not, it should be included. The same goes for AI scaling. It breaks the core gameplay in favor of people having FUN.

I read an incredible article a few months ago that brought me around to this way of thinking, about the value of Fastest Money Maps in Starcraft and how people having fun should come before EVERYTHING else in a good game. You swallow your gamer pride and do what it takes to get people playing, THEN you can enjoy the challenge of the full version of the game. We don't want video game addictions, we want LAN parties.

I wonder what other strange ideas this forum can come up with? Come on, somebody surprise me!

Infiltrator-SF
02-24-2011, 11:51 AM
For the game to reach broader appeal it would mean to lose what makes it special. You want broad appeal? Play Call of Duty.

Actually, that's a good example. In Modern Warfare 2 (which is an utter failure in general, for the PC), they've introduced "death streaks", something you get awarded for doing bad. It was quickly deemed as a horrendous decision (and was removed for the next installment) as it rewarded players for acting first and thinking later, which is exactly the thing "death forgiveness" would grant.

The starcraft BGH maps were popular amongst noobs, and those were entirely different as they were just UMS(custom game) maps, not a full-fledged game features. Users who were playing on these maps were the laughing stock of the community because they compensated their inability to play with a forgiving resource system.

So rather than making a noob mode as a game feature, let the map creators do it. They can make a map where you can get tons of creatures eaisly and where people can lose and practice as much as they want, instead of thinking how "death forgiveness" is a choice in MP games.

I could already see it now in the lobby:

-"OMG turn on death forgiveness"
-"no, it's for newbs"
-"lol, it's a legitimate game mode, l2p noob!!1 *D/C*"
-"sigh"

LuuMor
03-09-2011, 12:44 AM
I just had to make a post about this...

I have seen that I'm not the only one that wants the simulation turns forever! And now don't go say that's impossible! The only problem about this is when players and attack each other... so one way of doing this is like in RTS make an attack range let's say 5-10 movement slots wide when the other player come in that range it will pause the game for others and start the combat that's one way of doind always but ofc this could "ruin" the idea of the game but if it's ON / OFF feature you could use it or not. But if Ubisoft is going to forget even trying to do simulation turns forever there is one BIG improvement that you could do in the current simulation turns:
Reactivate it when it's possible...
Because why not? when players can't attack each other what's the point of not having it ON?
Because if someone just scouts and that makes the simulation turns off and when he backs with scouting the simulation turns doesn't come back ON.. :c

I hope that ubisoft will find a way to improve simulation turns with lots of options that could be game braking but make them ON / OFF...

- LuuMor

Zanosan
03-09-2011, 10:52 AM
LuuMor,

I like your idea of turning simultanious turns when possible! Maybe also allowing simultanious turns to continue if players of the same team come into contact or something http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

mcgslo
03-10-2011, 01:43 AM
Two things:

1st: Simultaneous turns are ok when players are not near each other. But mean time other players who wait for their turn should be able to check everything from planning next building to hero skill checks, and maybe even some mini game.

2nd: Death forgiveness. No. If you die and your faction looses, you are simple gone. But perhaps you could choose one AI that you can take over its faction and play with them. At the end off course you still loose but game would continue if both player want so (specially in hotseat mode)... itís no worst feeling than building your hero and faction and then AI defeats your opponent player http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Another thing:
There is this simple board game Smallworld where you have many races and many powers and territory like map. There if your faction dies you just pick another faction and reenter the game in progress. I wonder if Heroes (in future maybe) could take some similar concept. So you that there would be one territory like divided map and players could join/rejoin same map and try to take territory. Maybe some alternative game mode. Where you get limited number of creatures from beginning and enter game map in progress and try to conquer as much as you canÖ. Like I said something similar like Smallworld boardgame concept.