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View Full Version : Important WarClouds poll!



DKoor
08-17-2009, 10:45 AM
http://www.war-clouds.com/modu...wtopic&p=48485#48485 (http://www.war-clouds.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=48485#48485)

If you like the server take a few mins of your time and vote there.

Xiolablu3
08-17-2009, 01:05 PM
Interesting, but why do you think they only want late war missions?

There are some fantastic mid and early war matchups. (Spit V/P40 vs Bf109F4/Me110) being one of my favs)

I just wondered why warclouds doesnt want any of these great earlier matchups?

na85
08-17-2009, 02:42 PM
The whole premise of WC for as long as I can remember has been 'your favorite late-war ride, 24/7'

Honestly, I don't think that magically changing from CRT2 to 0 or 4.09b to 4.08 or anything like that will bring back the players in droves to warclouds.

The same plane set, every day, for years is just getting old, and people are seeking newer pastures with more variety.

DKoor
08-17-2009, 02:49 PM
I don't know...

I only know that after they started with mods, probs eventually emerged... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Xiolablu3
08-17-2009, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by na85:
The same plane set, every day, for years is just getting old, and people are seeking newer pastures with more variety.

EXACTLY my opinon.

Warclouds is a great server, buy why limit it to only late war rides? And come to think of it why only Western Front Europe?

There are so many other great matchups

SpitV vs Bf109F4
La5 vs 109G2
B2239 vs i153/16 (finland)
Fw190A4 vs SPit V/P40

etc etc

BillSwagger
08-17-2009, 03:34 PM
I thought there were other servers that had the earlier war missions, maybe WC would like to focus on the late war niche.
As a pilot, i happen to favor 43 onward, but i will still hop in a P-40 and take on some zeros.

My own opinion is that early war maps usually
tend to be a bit lopsided, with the exception of 109s v spits. Late war performance seems to be about equal so i think you can have more interesting battles, rather than the same two or three planes duking it out.

K_Freddie
08-17-2009, 03:40 PM
I really enjoy the early war lob-sidedness.
There's nothing like taking out an online zero or me109 in a p40... and the %^&#$% from the other side.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Actually this lob-sidedness makes one acutely aware of how to use your a/c good points against the oppositions bad points - educational stuff
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

na85
08-17-2009, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by na85:
The same plane set, every day, for years is just getting old, and people are seeking newer pastures with more variety.

EXACTLY my opinon.

Warclouds is a great server, buy why limit it to only late war rides? And come to think of it why only Western Front Europe?

There are so many other great matchups

SpitV vs Bf109F4
La5 vs 109G2
B2239 vs i153/16 (finland)
Fw190A4 vs SPit V/P40

etc etc </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And Yak9 vs 109G
Emil vs Tomahawk Mk2
Emil vs i16
Ki-27 vs i153/i16
Gladiator vs Falco

etc

Brain32
08-18-2009, 11:47 AM
Wow cool that you all stayed on topic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif, but still atleast it's getting bumped so those concerned can see it.


Some points:

And come to think of it why only Western Front Europe?
Name of the server is Warclouds_WF, guess what "WF" means, I'll help you it's not: "What the F***?"


...why limit it to only late war rides?
Because we liked it that way that's one thing.
As for other things:
1.) We had a second server which had highly historical missions/maps from 1939 to 1945 from all fronts - nobody was interested and it was there for atleast a good year and was also very well supported by us from WF even if we didn't like it just to attract the people which in turn actually occupied WF while we were boring ourselves to death on WC_ToH(Touch of History) in I-16's and other "popular" planes, which seem to be popular only on forums lol

2.) We even still have 42/43 and early 44 maps on WF(our standard is late44 on WF), whenever such map started people would leave the server...

So in the end where are all those early war fans? On forums I guess http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

Anyway this topic is for past and present regulars of WC_WF, the server needs more opinions as the population actually playing is always much greater than that active on forums. We need your vote, if you like the WarClouds server this is YOUR opportunity to tailor it more towards your likings. We are currently battling with mod options which brought so much chaos in the online play, so please help the guys there to make a good decision.
Thx http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

DKoor
08-18-2009, 01:09 PM
Yes, Brain is right... it is evident that people didn't liked early war and mid war setups... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

As suggested above, I really enjoy these
Yak-9 v 109G
LA-5 v 109G
Spit V v F

...and such, but seems that most people simply do not fly this frequently enough.

WarClouds also hosted fantastic WarClouds Touch of History server, but apart from some good early attendances, it was empty most of the time, while WF was full more often than not.

Xiolablu3
08-18-2009, 03:27 PM
The topic is about Warclouds, surely we are allowed to talk about their server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

And its NOT called Western Front anymore, which is why I suggested not limiting it to WF anymore http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.


in I-16's and other "popular" planes, which seem to be popular only on forums lol


So in the end where are all those early war fans? On forums I guess http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/typing.gif

Flying on other servers obviously..


I am NOT slating Warclouds, its a great server and would be surely missed if it shut down. I was just giving my opinion that it gets a bit dull when having the same planeset map after map. THIS IS ONLY MY OPINION. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Cmon Brain, you cant deny that Bf109F4/Me110 vs SPit V/P40 or Zero/D3A1 vs P40/Wildcat are pretty awesome..

na85
08-18-2009, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:

1.) We had a second server which had highly historical missions/maps from 1939 to 1945 from all fronts - nobody was interested and it was there for atleast a good year and was also very well supported by us from WF even if we didn't like it just to attract the people which in turn actually occupied WF while we were boring ourselves to death on WC_ToH(Touch of History) in I-16's and other "popular" planes, which seem to be popular only on forums lol

I joined ToH and found it was running a "Kuban" scencario. I went to choose my base and was presented with a choice of spits, p38's, and 51s.

I left the server and never went back.

Woke_Up_Dead
08-18-2009, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Some points:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And come to think of it why only Western Front Europe?
Name of the server is Warclouds_WF, guess what "WF" means, I'll help you it's not: "What the F***?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, I see, so you are bound and handcuffed by two letters in your server title and that's why you can't change its content, makes sense.

Brain32
08-18-2009, 03:43 PM
And its NOT called Western Front anymore, which is why I suggested not limiting it to WF anymore http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

It's still very much called WF, on the site and in hyperlobby http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


I joined ToH and found it was running a "Kuban" scencario. I went to choose my base and was presented with a choice of spits, p38's, and 51s.

I left the server and never went back.

So are you claiming other servers don't use maps from other parts of the world when there are no needed maps present in game - now THAT's dull.
So let's see if you want to simulate WF you should constantly use ONLY Berlin,Ardennes,Normandy and NWGermany map, and people say same planes all the time are boring lol

What did happen to you is you entered a WF scenario, that was set up on Kuban MAP, too bad you didn't bother to read the mission briefing - but then again who does, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

na85
08-18-2009, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:

So are you claiming other servers don't use maps from other parts of the world when there are no needed maps present in game - now THAT's dull.

Is that what I said?


So let's see if you want to simulate WF you should constantly use ONLY Berlin,Ardennes,Normandy and NWGermany map, and people say same planes all the time are boring lol

I guess when they said "a TOUCH of history" they really meant only a touch. I don't have a problem with mis-matched plane sets and maps. I do have a problem with said scenarios claiming to be historical when in fact they are not. Let's just call it what it is.


What did happen to you is you entered a WF scenario, that was set up on Kuban MAP, too bad you didn't bother to read the mission briefing - but then again who does, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Sure bud. But if I wanted to join a WF scenario on some random map I could do that at regular warclouds.

And who are you to say I didn't read the briefing? Kindly stfu and stop trying to pick an argument.

Brain32
08-18-2009, 04:03 PM
Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
Some points:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And come to think of it why only Western Front Europe?
Name of the server is Warclouds_WF, guess what "WF" means, I'll help you it's not: "What the F***?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, I see, so you are bound and handcuffed by two letters in your server title and that's why you can't change its content, makes sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that you mention it I never understanded people in for example England, why do they keep insisting in officialy speaking the same language over and over again, why don't they speak spanish, then french then german for example?
Are they bound and handcuffed by those 7 letters and that is preventing them to speak other languages, strange. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Anyway this is not a "How much I hate Warclouds because I didn't stand a chance there" thread. We had thousands of players over the years that constantly enjoyed the server, it all fell down when mods went online, incompatibilities and stuff like that drove many players away.
We want to bring them back and that's why we ask for THEIR opinion, we don't count or even care on bringing the haters back or attract the people that never liked to play on WarClouds anyway, reasons being the maps, planes or whatever.
We just want our old crowd back and trying the adjust the server for as many as possible to be able to join in this incompatibility mod chaos unseen by this community before last year.

Since far more people read this forum rather than participating I assume DKoor decided to sort of advertise the problem to those that don't follow WC forums - that's all.

Brain32
08-18-2009, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:

So are you claiming other servers don't use maps from other parts of the world when there are no needed maps present in game - now THAT's dull.

Is that what I said? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No but you did in-directly imply that, probably without being even aware.


Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So let's see if you want to simulate WF you should constantly use ONLY Berlin,Ardennes,Normandy and NWGermany map, and people say same planes all the time are boring lol

I guess when they said "a TOUCH of history" they really meant only a touch. I don't have a problem with mis-matched plane sets and maps. I do have a problem with said scenarios claiming to be historical when in fact they are not. Let's just call it what it is. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean let's call it the way I WANT TO CALL IT - nice, why do you hate WarClouds so much? I really can't understand that, I had bad expiriences on more than one server, and it wasn't maps or planes, I even got kicked for killing too much and BnZ-ing and stuff, still I NEVER badmouthed any of them!
Sorry but I just don't understand what keeps people like you acting this way...


Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">What did happen to you is you entered a WF scenario, that was set up on Kuban MAP, too bad you didn't bother to read the mission briefing - but then again who does, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Sure bud. But if I wanted to join a WF scenario on some random map I could do that at regular warclouds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What did you expect, to see ToH completely deprived of WF? Nice "Touch of History" would that be - "WW2 - never happened in Western Europe" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


And who are you to say I didn't read the briefing? Kindly stfu and stop trying to pick an argument.
Wait a minute you are telling me to STFU(although kindly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif) but I'm trying to pick a fight???
BTW If you had read the briefing you would see it's a WF scenario on a Kuban map, not a Kuban scenario...

na85
08-18-2009, 04:20 PM
Sure bud.

DKoor
08-18-2009, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Since far more people read this forum rather than participating I assume DKoor decided to sort of advertise the problem to those that don't follow WC forums - that's all. This is precisely the reason... none of us wants to see WarClouds shut down... there were polls in the past but I assume they attract mainly people that frequent WarClouds forums... so it is in common interest to attract as broader audience as possible in order to get people flying back there...

I personally do not care what the results of the poll are, as long as it brings people in.

My personal opinion is that I'd like to see Eastern Front action, mid war in particular, Prokhorovka/Kursk would be just ideal (all kind of interesting stuff like Ju-87G, Bf-109F4, Bf-109G6, Henschels, IL-2-3M's, FW-190A4/5's, Yak-1B/9's, LA-5(F)'s etc. etc.), mid war Western Front/Med Front with Spit V's, FW-190A's,... also only mods that doesn't require any user to download 3rd party stuff... but I guess my personal opinion is irrelevant in the big picture.

Woke_Up_Dead
08-19-2009, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Woke_Up_Dead:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Brain32:
Some points:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And come to think of it why only Western Front Europe?
Name of the server is Warclouds_WF, guess what "WF" means, I'll help you it's not: "What the F***?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah, I see, so you are bound and handcuffed by two letters in your server title and that's why you can't change its content, makes sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that you mention it I never understanded people in for example England, why do they keep insisting in officialy speaking the same language over and over again, why don't they speak spanish, then french then german for example?
Are they bound and handcuffed by those 7 letters and that is preventing them to speak other languages, strange. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, that's EXACTLY the argument I'm trying to make! You are just as powerless to change the content of your server as any individual is to change the official language of his country!

Now for some constructive feedback: I've only flown on Warclouds maybe 20 times, before it required mods. It was fun, I didn't get bored of the plane-set yet, but at some point I probably would. I think you had some limited icons and the speed-bar turned on as opposed to Spits vs 109's for example, that was good. I was starting to get into it and wanted to fly it more often when it changed and required the use of mods. I didn't feel like downloading and installing a huge program that was third-party and not quite 100% stable yet, and that's where you lost me.

If you set it up so that you can fly on it with or without mods, then I will definitely be back; I don't mind flying just the stock planes while people around me fly B-17's, P36's, etc. But as soon as a good, closed-pit server that has more variety appears, particularly if it has Eastern Front planes and scenarios, then I will start going there instead.

megalopsuche
08-19-2009, 01:40 PM
Wow, nice thread. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Actually, the few times I've visited everyone was nice, but I value my eyesight too much to squint at my computer screen looking for pixels. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Billy_DeLyon
08-19-2009, 11:25 PM
This IS a good idea for a thread, and a good place for it (as it's developed as a discussion of the server) - to bring the attention of the wider IL2 communtiy to Warclouds, and maybe to bring the attention of the Warclouds admins to the views of the wider community on the server.

Personally I like the server for its settings (short icons + speedbar, closed pit) and its community. I haven't spent a lot of time there, because I personally don't care for the fixed planeset. I understand that's their deal and the regulars liked it that way. I liked TOH, it's too bad it didn't really catch on.

Gumtree
08-20-2009, 01:14 AM
I have to agree with earlier posts that my biggest beef with WC is the same old plane sets map after map after map after map........

Then again I am not a fan of having icons on either. It ruins the immersion for me. That said the maps are generally nice dogfight maps.

WOLFMondo
08-20-2009, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by na85:


The same plane set, every day, for years is just getting old, and people are seeking newer pastures with more variety.

+1

I played there every day for a long time but after a while it just gets stale.

rnzoli
08-20-2009, 10:16 AM
maybe the first major server being killed with the appearance of mods?

just thinking out loud - it was a highly competitive DF server back in the day, this requires CRT=2 nowadays, but with widely available mods from various sources makes it difficult to keep a clean/compatible install...

JG52Uther
08-20-2009, 10:25 AM
WC seemed like a good enough server when I was starting out,but the late war uber planeset very quickly became old,the icons are a turn off for me personally,and when the mods hit the scene WC seemed to totally lose the plot,with all the 'mods are evil' posts in the forums,and bans for mod users.Then seeing players disappear mods suddenly became acceptable,then 409b and crt2 (to deter 'cheaters'!)lost a few more,then crt2 changed back to crt0 (needed the 'cheaters'back?) !
People left not because,as said on the WC forum they were losing interest in il2,they left because it is easier to play on other servers!
RIP WC.I think it served its purpose,and once it was THE server to join,but those days have long gone.

Brain32
08-20-2009, 04:07 PM
First to clarify I was just a user/player on WC for a loooong time, nothing more nothing less...


Originally posted by rnzoli:
maybe the first major server being killed with the appearance of mods?

just thinking out loud - it was a highly competitive DF server back in the day, this requires CRT=2 nowadays, but with widely available mods from various sources makes it difficult to keep a clean/compatible install...

You are thinking exactly like me and it's quite obvious really, simple logic:
Before appearance of mods - server ran well with bunch of players
Mod's appear - server runs downhill rapidly

Alos I must admit I left too, and since WC=IL-2 for me, few months ago after 0hrs of play for several months for the first time since 2003, I completely uninstalled IL-2 from my hard drive. I had 0 intrest in playing this used-to-be-a-game anymore.

It's not exclusively the fault of the mods itself but more of the people, so many people need to have new texture and smoke effect for pilots fart or they will "die" ofcourse that makes them incompatible and you have apsolutely no use of CRT=2
This in turn however means you have to run the server with 0 protection, and then you get the chaos, maybe it's fine for superarcade servers but I personally have nothing to do in such enviroment.
Just look at the top of the line servers theese days;
- most of them are open pit + mods
- some full settings or atleast close to that are completely open with mods often even v408 without even a possibility of any kind of control
In short online play on DF severs mostly went Wild Wild West, now look at the number of players in prime times in HL..when was the last time you saw it coming even close to 1000?
Hey but all is fine as long as mods didn't ruin the online play right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Some say RIP WarClouds, I say RIP IL-2 Online because that's what all this is about, the only possible revival of online play I see in Team Daidalos, they are the only ones that might be capable of bringing this old game to it's old glory when it comes to online play.

Oh and Uter, WC is not RiP, the crowd there is amazing and mayn old names appeared from the "shadows" and brought back some life into it - that's fidelity http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

P51er
08-21-2009, 01:25 AM
Please note, Brain32's ramblings do not represent "WarClouds" as whole. Heck, he doesn't even fly there anymore.

BillSwagger
08-21-2009, 02:11 AM
Seems to me, Team Daidalos should impose some sort of standard to prevent the over modding that occurs.
What they really need is a more in depth CRT format that can just have the ability to CRT the FM/DMs, then any mods that don't follow suit won't allow the player to join.
This would allow players to use the mods they like (6DoF, improved cockpits, and added textures) with out discouraging players who might think the game has lost its integrity because of a few bad apples.

I actually get more out the mods offline anyway, but until there's some sort of protection in place, my online days with Il2 are over.

I've played on WC and it was a decent server, but this mods vs no mods is more wide spread than one server.

DEY_Scull_AUS
08-21-2009, 02:41 AM
take the best 50% of maps from WF, the best 50% maps from TOH, put them together on a server running 4.09b crt=0. Relaunch the server by renaming it to something like 'warclouds resurrection' or 'warclouds - the wrath of khan'.

The solely late-WFront aspect of warclouds was why i stopped flying there years ago.

Xiolablu3
08-21-2009, 03:38 AM
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

julian265
08-21-2009, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by Brain32:

You are thinking exactly like me and it's quite obvious really, simple logic:
Before appearance of mods - server ran well with bunch of players
Mod's appear - server runs downhill rapidly

I remember it differently. WC moved to 4.09b and (at or around the same time) **turned CRT on**, numbers plummeted and did not rise again, then they moved to the unified mod installer (remember the WC forum discussions predicting server revival?), but things were still slow, then CRT was disabled. After that I wanted some more variety of missions and planes, didn't particularly like the aftermarket stuff in WC, so went elsewhere. But not long after my IL2 participation dropped anyway.

IMO WC lost popularity partially because of its constant plane-set, but more-so because the regulars (I was one) were so familiar with the settings that newer players didn't have a hope.

I'll be back for BoB for sure. I have DCS: BS, but modern combat just doesn't keep me at the computer like IL2 once did.

Feathered_IV
08-21-2009, 06:37 AM
Warclouds. I can't stand that awful place. The same numbing treadmill of identical maps and matchups since AEP was released. Unbearable monotony. And that other travesty, A Touch of History. A touch! As much an admission of the mindset of the place as anything. A Touch of History. It's like saying all the goodness of 5% real fruit juice. The other 95% is just rubbish.

Viper2005_
08-21-2009, 07:59 AM
WarClouds is unique in my experience because of the quality of the pilots and cooperation on TS. It is particularly the quality of cooperation on TS which has always kept me coming back.

Now that many members have invested heavily in the server's survival, I think that its population will start to recover.

money_money
08-21-2009, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
WarClouds is unique in my experience because of the quality of the pilots and cooperation on TS. It is particularly the quality of cooperation on TS which has always kept me coming back.

Now that many members have invested heavily in the server's survival, I think that its population will start to recover.

This is how I felt about WC. I dont fly online much anymore. but when i do I dont join WC because of the 4.09 business and i assume I would need 2 installs to be able to join a variety of servers.

Perhaps once the real 4.09 arrives there maybe a return to reading from the same page.

na85
08-21-2009, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by money_money:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Viper2005_:
WarClouds is unique in my experience because of the quality of the pilots and cooperation on TS. It is particularly the quality of cooperation on TS which has always kept me coming back.

Now that many members have invested heavily in the server's survival, I think that its population will start to recover.

This is how I felt about WC. I dont fly online much anymore. but when i do I dont join WC because of the 4.09 business and i assume I would need 2 installs to be able to join a variety of servers.

Perhaps once the real 4.09 arrives there maybe a return to reading from the same page. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You know what they say when you assume, right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

There's actually a "mod switcher" that will allow you to use 4.08, 4.08 modded, 4.09b1m, 4.09b1m modded all with a single install.

megalopsuche
08-21-2009, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

I've been informed that a big reason for externals in SoV is so that admins can more easily police the server.

Anyway, carry on. As a late-comer to Il-2, it's interesting to hear all this debate about mods and its effects on the health of the community.

na85
08-21-2009, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

I've been informed that a big reason for externals in SoV is so that admins can more easily police the server.

Anyway, carry on. As a late-comer to Il-2, it's interesting to hear all this debate about mods and its effects on the health of the community. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mods have ruined/are ruining multiplay, be sure. Accusations of cheating aside, look at all the fragmentation that has happened and is happening. Half the population runs 4.08m and half runs 4.09. A different half runs mods, and the other half runs non modded games.

The problem is right now if you DARE to speak out against the mods, people jump on you and get all defensive and emotional, saying stuff like "don't criticize the modders they do this for free" etc etc.

Years from now when all this silly business is past people will look back on il2 mods the same way they look back on the CFS series.

megalopsuche
08-21-2009, 12:48 PM
Tell me about it. I have two Il-2 folders now, one that's a completely clean 4.08, and the other with mods for online play (almost can't play online without them). The fact is that the mods are buggy, and the bugs were leaking into 4.08 despite the version switcher. Moreover, the mods noticeably slow down the application load time and decrease framerate (which I'm guessing is because of the insane number of polys on some of the objects). Granted, I do run the game in perfect mode in 1280x1024 with the water turned up.

So, why did WC go with 4.09b1? Just because of the maps? All of the late war aircraft they like to feature are in 4.08.

na85
08-21-2009, 01:05 PM
Probably for the maps, but IIRC they went to the mods because of the flyable heavies and Me410

DEY_Scull_AUS
08-21-2009, 03:19 PM
Mods have ruined/are ruining multiplay, be sure. Accusations of cheating aside, look at all the fragmentation that has happened and is happening. Half the population runs 4.08m and half runs 4.09. A different half runs mods, and the other half runs non modded games

mods arn't the only reason the community has fragmented. Part of the blame can be laid on oleg for releasing his last patch as a beta with no dedicated server.
Finally years later it looks like we might be getting a 4.09 final soon.

P51er
08-22-2009, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

You're suggesting that having a closed cockpit is "taking it too seriously"?

megalopsuche
08-22-2009, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by P51er:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

You're suggesting that having a closed cockpit is "taking it too seriously"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a difference between whether the cockpit is closed and whether externals are enabled.

SoV has closed cockpits, but external views are allowed (UK2 is the same iirc). No, it's not ideal, but they say policing their popular server would be nearly impossible without externals.

Sugarman10
08-22-2009, 10:18 AM
I can answer a couple of questions re why WC did what it did when it did.

WC went to 4.09b1 for two reasons.

CRT=2 does not work in 4.08 (there are several reasons why it doesn't but it doesn't).

And, yes, WC wanted the maps.

WC went to 4.09b1+MODS+CRT=2 for several reasons.

More maps

The heavies (you are quite correct na85)

I suppose the reasons for guiding WC to a workable CRT=2 setting are obvious. There were strong indications that such a server would be well received, it wasn't. Started out well, the initial plummet in attendance was predicted but it did begin to recover...then more MODS came out and peoples install drifted out of WC compatibility running CRT=2. Switchers were in their infancy and it all became too much hassle for a guy that had just had supper and wanted a little stick time to deal with.

Anyway that's history.
~S~

rnzoli
08-22-2009, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
external views are allowed (UK2 is the same iirc). No, it's not ideal, but they say policing their popular server would be nearly impossible without externals.
Yes, so here lies the problem, you need nowadays manual policing, if the ease of access need to be maintained.

In past, ultra-competitive DF servers could run on their own, and the auxiliary server controller could take care of team-killing, cursing etc. without human supervision.

But those external controllers can't detect FM/DM/Weapon changes, thereby you need more human admins to watch out, and you need the external also on CRT=0 servers.

Well, to me it looks that the mods delivered a heavy blow to at least this corner of the online world (ultra-competive DF), because the old stars leave due to aversion of possible cheats, newcomers leave due to difficulty to pass CRT=2.

Now I just wonder, when the novelty of mods wears off the individuals, where will players go to have a serious affair, which gives you more heartbeat than a WW II -looking Tetris game?

Xiolablu3
08-22-2009, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by P51er:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

You're suggesting that having a closed cockpit is "taking it too seriously"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didnt say anything about that closed cockpits is taking it too seriously. I will rephrase....

'Servers with externals and pit on seem to be as popular as ever.'

WHat I was suggesting was that any server (with any settings) which takes the sim really seriously and is extremely competetive (Warclouds was touted by many to be the place where 'the best' flew) will be super-worried about cheating, to the extent where its easy to blame your deaths on a player 'hacking' rather than the other players skill.

More casual/fun servers suffer less from this problem IMHO. Players really arent too bothered if they are shot down and often congratulate the other player on his kill. I have seen some really bad foul mouthed tirades from players who have been shot down on Warclouds. So much so you would think they had killed their mother or worse.

There are many more players who live for their stats on the more competetive servers, and the mere *suspicion* that cheating is possible kills the simulation for them.

DKoor
08-22-2009, 02:39 PM
Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

I've been informed that a big reason for externals in SoV is so that admins can more easily police the server.

Anyway, carry on. As a late-comer to Il-2, it's interesting to hear all this debate about mods and its effects on the health of the community. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mods have ruined/are ruining multiplay, be sure. Accusations of cheating aside, look at all the fragmentation that has happened and is happening. Half the population runs 4.08m and half runs 4.09. A different half runs mods, and the other half runs non modded games.

The problem is right now if you DARE to speak out against the mods, people jump on you and get all defensive and emotional, saying stuff like "don't criticize the modders they do this for free" etc etc.

Years from now when all this silly business is past people will look back on il2 mods the same way they look back on the CFS series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right.

I realized this from the day one... it was kinda nice to fly some planes (that were already in the game, with all new planes I never really bothered), but still... most of modded stuff I never really accepted for online.

DKoor
08-22-2009, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by P51er:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

You're suggesting that having a closed cockpit is "taking it too seriously"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a difference between whether the cockpit is closed and whether externals are enabled.

SoV has closed cockpits, but external views are allowed (UK2 is the same iirc). No, it's not ideal, but they say policing their popular server would be nearly impossible without externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For me personally story doesn't go beyond limited icons/speedbar.

Anything else and I sail into arcade waters... cockpit off, external views... in my opinion there is no big difference.

Anyone can have his/her joy out of this game I suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
For instance years back I enjoyed flying on UK dedicated with open pit, it was one of the finest servers ever... if something like that (planeset, maps) succeeded with more realistic settings that would be like the next best thing since they introduced P-38 in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
I'd be hanging there all the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Even now.

VFC was ideal too, but they closed the shop eons ago... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

megalopsuche
08-22-2009, 02:56 PM
I hear ya, externals are arcadish. But it's a lesser evil than open cockpit because you still have to be in cockpit to shoot straight.

Viper2005_
08-22-2009, 03:57 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I didnt say anything about that closed cockpits is taking it too seriously. I will rephrase....

'Servers with externals and pit on seem to be as popular as ever.'

WHat I was suggesting was that any server (with any settings) which takes the sim really seriously and is extremely competetive (Warclouds was touted by many to be the place where 'the best' flew) will be super-worried about cheating, to the extent where its easy to blame your deaths on a player 'hacking' rather than the other players skill.

More casual/fun servers suffer less from this problem IMHO. Players really arent too bothered if they are shot down and often congratulate the other player on his kill. I have seen some really bad foul mouthed tirades from players who have been shot down on Warclouds. So much so you would think they had killed their mother or worse.

There are many more players who live for their stats on the more competetive servers, and the mere *suspicion* that cheating is possible kills the simulation for them.

My experience flying on WarClouds is that 99% of the time pilots exchange salutes after combat. I have both offered and been offered congratulations in cases where excellent flying or marksmanship has been exhibited. Such instances are exceptional by definition; if we congratulated each other for every manoeuvre then those congratulations would be worthless.

Bad apples pop up periodically in every barrel of course. But I don't think that WarClouds has any particular problem in this regard. In fact I would go so far as to say that the level of general "angst" is lower than in many other servers because of the lack of artificial rules regarding tactics whose interpretation I have seen cause trouble elsewhere.

DKoor
08-22-2009, 04:05 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
I hear ya, externals are arcadish. But it's a lesser evil than open cockpit because you still have to be in cockpit to shoot straight. Mate I hear you... I understand.
But I don't care about this lesser evils.

When I play the game I have little room for tolerance... next to none.

No offense, but I use game to enjoy myself... if I start to make compromises about video games where will I end http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif .

In the past WarClouds were among best if not the best server that featured Western Front.
I always looked at it that way. WarClouds were always among my fav servers, but not alpha and omega server like in some cases.
I always had few servers that I liked.

I didn't expected to see anything else there really. If I want early war, Eastern Front... I simply go elsewhere. It was very simple those days.

No more.

joeap
08-22-2009, 04:12 PM
Life goes on guys, seriously. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Trefle
08-22-2009, 04:14 PM
I regret the old times of "Greatergreen" server for those who remember http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DKoor
08-22-2009, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by Trefle:
I regret the old times of "Greatergreen" server for those who remember http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Haha last thing I remember (there), I flew He-111 on GreaterGreen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

na85
08-22-2009, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trefle:
I regret the old times of "Greatergreen" server for those who remember http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Haha last thing I remember (there), I flew He-111 on GreaterGreen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Never heard anything but good things about GreaterGreen.

Xiolablu3
08-23-2009, 03:30 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by P51er:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

You're suggesting that having a closed cockpit is "taking it too seriously"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a difference between whether the cockpit is closed and whether externals are enabled.

SoV has closed cockpits, but external views are allowed (UK2 is the same iirc). No, it's not ideal, but they say policing their popular server would be nearly impossible without externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For me personally story doesn't go beyond limited icons/speedbar.

Anything else and I sail into arcade waters... cockpit off, external views... in my opinion there is no big difference.

Anyone can have his/her joy out of this game I suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
For instance years back I enjoyed flying on UK dedicated with open pit, it was one of the finest servers ever... if something like that (planeset, maps) succeeded with more realistic settings that would be like the next best thing since they introduced P-38 in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
I'd be hanging there all the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Even now.

VFC was ideal too, but they closed the shop eons ago... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

UKdedicated2 is the same but with closed pit.

Ukded3 is the same but with closed pit and no externals.

Xiolablu3
08-23-2009, 03:33 AM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I didnt say anything about that closed cockpits is taking it too seriously. I will rephrase....

'Servers with externals and pit on seem to be as popular as ever.'

WHat I was suggesting was that any server (with any settings) which takes the sim really seriously and is extremely competetive (Warclouds was touted by many to be the place where 'the best' flew) will be super-worried about cheating, to the extent where its easy to blame your deaths on a player 'hacking' rather than the other players skill.

More casual/fun servers suffer less from this problem IMHO. Players really arent too bothered if they are shot down and often congratulate the other player on his kill. I have seen some really bad foul mouthed tirades from players who have been shot down on Warclouds. So much so you would think they had killed their mother or worse.

There are many more players who live for their stats on the more competetive servers, and the mere *suspicion* that cheating is possible kills the simulation for them.

My experience flying on WarClouds is that 99% of the time pilots exchange salutes after combat. I have both offered and been offered congratulations in cases where excellent flying or marksmanship has been exhibited. Such instances are exceptional by definition; if we congratulated each other for every manoeuvre then those congratulations would be worthless.

Bad apples pop up periodically in every barrel of course. But I don't think that WarClouds has any particular problem in this regard. In fact I would go so far as to say that the level of general "angst" is lower than in many other servers because of the lack of artificial rules regarding tactics whose interpretation I have seen cause trouble elsewhere. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didnt fly there regularly and maybe I just got a bad impression from a few bad apples.

Of course I should know that bad apples turn up on every server now and again.

GH_Klingstroem
08-23-2009, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by Sugarman10:
I can answer a couple of questions re why WC did what it did when it did.

WC went to 4.09b1 for two reasons.

CRT=2 does not work in 4.08 (there are several reasons why it doesn't but it doesn't).

And, yes, WC wanted the maps.

WC went to 4.09b1+MODS+CRT=2 for several reasons.

More maps

The heavies (you are quite correct na85)

I suppose the reasons for guiding WC to a workable CRT=2 setting are obvious. There were strong indications that such a server would be well received, it wasn't. Started out well, the initial plummet in attendance was predicted but it did begin to recover...then more MODS came out and peoples install drifted out of WC compatibility running CRT=2. Switchers were in their infancy and it all became too much hassle for a guy that had just had supper and wanted a little stick time to deal with.

Anyway that's history.
~S~

I know exactly when WC lost all the people! I have been flying almost ONLY that server for the last couple of years!

It had been 4.08 forever and MODS were NOT allowed. It said so when u joined the server, in the briefing and also as random messages from the server while you were flying. However if anyone ever got caught using MODS on WC they got banned, which is fair since it was forbidden. At this time, WC was still a full server.

Anyway, the Admins decided to go to 4.09 to get the new maps but at the same time they could also now run CRT2 to be SURE noone would use mods. Well, I and many other knew that when they did, people would not fly there anymore, not because of 4.09 but simply because most people were using some kind of mods (I knew loads of people always did even when they were running 4.08 and I think most people knew it but chose to ignore it), maybe just sounds or simple mods, bust still mods that wouldnt let u get in once the swopped to 4.09 CRT2. I warned them in a few post that they would lose plenty of people if people were unable to get in with mods. The simple reason is that once u have tried them, extremely few people will go back. I am one of them. No way in h*ell that I will go back to flying il2 with the original sounds and visual effects! I would rather go to another server even tho I really love WC.

Anyway after the change the server became a ghost place(as most of us said it would)but apparently it came as a surprise for many of the admins at WC and after a few months with an empty server the decided to allow mods to see if they could get people back again by going 4.09 UI1.1 CRT2. Basically, people can get in with mods, but only if the use the mods that came with UI 1.1. But still people wouldnt come back. They simply had found other places while they couldnt get into WC and got used to other servers instead and some might even prefer these servers now. Probably they would never have gone and looked for other servers in the first place had WC gone to 4.09 but still had it open for mods from the start.
Anyway, now it is as it is and the only thing they can do now is to try to get people back and this is exactly what this poll is all about!

I still belive that we must have the server and allow mods. Cheating can be detected in many ways, like 190 that turns like a spitfire etc etc and people can get caught and banned for those reasons like they always were.
We will see how it goes. if they decide not to use ANY mods, then I will stop flying there too unfortunately, however the poll seems to suggest that most want the mods in some way... we will see...

VA_Kling

DKoor
08-23-2009, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by P51er:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

You're suggesting that having a closed cockpit is "taking it too seriously"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a difference between whether the cockpit is closed and whether externals are enabled.

SoV has closed cockpits, but external views are allowed (UK2 is the same iirc). No, it's not ideal, but they say policing their popular server would be nearly impossible without externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For me personally story doesn't go beyond limited icons/speedbar.

Anything else and I sail into arcade waters... cockpit off, external views... in my opinion there is no big difference.

Anyone can have his/her joy out of this game I suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
For instance years back I enjoyed flying on UK dedicated with open pit, it was one of the finest servers ever... if something like that (planeset, maps) succeeded with more realistic settings that would be like the next best thing since they introduced P-38 in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
I'd be hanging there all the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Even now.

VFC was ideal too, but they closed the shop eons ago... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

UKdedicated2 is the same but with closed pit.

Ukded3 is the same but with closed pit and no externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>But what about padlock? UK_ded3 seems like a nice server but has padlock??

rnzoli
08-23-2009, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by GH_Klingstroem:
Cheating can be detected in many ways, like 190 that turns like a spitfire etc etc
Unfortunately, there is no way to detect more subtle cheats, like 150+ HP or lower drag coefficient or -100 kg or a slightly more powerful 0.5 cal etc.

So we are back to square one - as the hacks opened the room for pretty mods and subtle cheats at the same time, the choice is either to have them both, or none of them. With the divergent modding teams, and the non-CRT compatible mod creation practices, there was practically no way left in between, and it is good learning point that people like pretty things more that anything http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif as long as it doesn't cost anything obvious.

megalopsuche
08-23-2009, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by P51er:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

You're suggesting that having a closed cockpit is "taking it too seriously"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a difference between whether the cockpit is closed and whether externals are enabled.

SoV has closed cockpits, but external views are allowed (UK2 is the same iirc). No, it's not ideal, but they say policing their popular server would be nearly impossible without externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For me personally story doesn't go beyond limited icons/speedbar.

Anything else and I sail into arcade waters... cockpit off, external views... in my opinion there is no big difference.

Anyone can have his/her joy out of this game I suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
For instance years back I enjoyed flying on UK dedicated with open pit, it was one of the finest servers ever... if something like that (planeset, maps) succeeded with more realistic settings that would be like the next best thing since they introduced P-38 in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
I'd be hanging there all the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Even now.

VFC was ideal too, but they closed the shop eons ago... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

UKdedicated2 is the same but with closed pit.

Ukded3 is the same but with closed pit and no externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>But what about padlock? UK_ded3 seems like a nice server but has padlock?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's another one people disagree about. Some have said it levels the playing field for those without trackir. I don't have trackIR but I do not use padlock when it's available; I really don't need it and it can be disorienting.

Sugarman10
08-23-2009, 11:03 AM
You are almost but not quite correct Kling. You don't know "exactly". What I said is accurate, as far as it goes...which is far enough, it covers the general.

Anyway, WC certainly appreciates input from the wider community. So thank you guys for that. If any have not voted in the poll please take a few seconds to do so, it really does help. Determining public opinion can be very difficult. There are language barriers for one thing and other impediments.

WC is actually trying to find out what the public wants. WC is actively trying to avoid simply listening to the loudest voices.

Thanks for your time.
~S~

Xiolablu3
08-23-2009, 11:04 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by P51er:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

You're suggesting that having a closed cockpit is "taking it too seriously"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a difference between whether the cockpit is closed and whether externals are enabled.

SoV has closed cockpits, but external views are allowed (UK2 is the same iirc). No, it's not ideal, but they say policing their popular server would be nearly impossible without externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For me personally story doesn't go beyond limited icons/speedbar.

Anything else and I sail into arcade waters... cockpit off, external views... in my opinion there is no big difference.

Anyone can have his/her joy out of this game I suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
For instance years back I enjoyed flying on UK dedicated with open pit, it was one of the finest servers ever... if something like that (planeset, maps) succeeded with more realistic settings that would be like the next best thing since they introduced P-38 in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
I'd be hanging there all the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Even now.

VFC was ideal too, but they closed the shop eons ago... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

UKdedicated2 is the same but with closed pit.

Ukded3 is the same but with closed pit and no externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>But what about padlock? UK_ded3 seems like a nice server but has padlock?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi mate,

the padlock on UK3 is just the worthless padlock which allow you to padlock an aircraft while in the cockpit until it goes out of your view.

I have NEVER found this usefull tbh. I find it pretty useless and just as mega said disorientating. Its no real benefit.

Its nothing like the external padlock which allows 'F6 Aceing' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DKoor
08-23-2009, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by P51er:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
The most popular settings for IL2 online seem to be, pit-on with externals, and objective based maps. As in the UKded2 and Skies of Valour settings.

Both these servers were near full when I checked yesterday afternoon.

IL2 online is certainly not dead for the players who know its just a game and do not take it too seriously...

You're suggesting that having a closed cockpit is "taking it too seriously"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There's a difference between whether the cockpit is closed and whether externals are enabled.

SoV has closed cockpits, but external views are allowed (UK2 is the same iirc). No, it's not ideal, but they say policing their popular server would be nearly impossible without externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
For me personally story doesn't go beyond limited icons/speedbar.

Anything else and I sail into arcade waters... cockpit off, external views... in my opinion there is no big difference.

Anyone can have his/her joy out of this game I suppose http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
For instance years back I enjoyed flying on UK dedicated with open pit, it was one of the finest servers ever... if something like that (planeset, maps) succeeded with more realistic settings that would be like the next best thing since they introduced P-38 in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
I'd be hanging there all the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Even now.

VFC was ideal too, but they closed the shop eons ago... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

UKdedicated2 is the same but with closed pit.

Ukded3 is the same but with closed pit and no externals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>But what about padlock? UK_ded3 seems like a nice server but has padlock?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi mate,

the padlock on UK3 is just the worthless padlock which allow you to padlock an aircraft while in the cockpit until it goes out of your view.

I have NEVER found this usefull tbh. I find it pretty useless and just as mega said disorientating. Its no real benefit.

Its nothing like the external padlock which allows 'F6 Aceing' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Cool then... I never flew with those settings.
I think I'll give it a go.

WOLFMondo
08-24-2009, 04:54 AM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
I hear ya, externals are arcadish. But it's a lesser evil than open cockpit because you still have to be in cockpit to shoot straight.

Yeah but on servers where you not locked in the pit you get F6 aces. I'd fly on UKded2 but its full of F6 aces (and they don't allow vulching which blows). It ruins the whole experiance; 0% immersion when people have F6 radar.

Xiolablu3
08-24-2009, 08:18 AM
I actually enjoy a bit of f6 aceing.

All good fun as long as everyone is using it. What I dont like is when new players arrive and dont realise why they are finding it so hard to spot other planes, and other players have a 'sixth sense' (f6 radar).

I always try and explain to obviously new players about f6 padlock and also chatbar extension.

Would be GREAT if we could have externals without the f6 padlock, but of course we have discussed this to death.

megalopsuche
08-24-2009, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
I hear ya, externals are arcadish. But it's a lesser evil than open cockpit because you still have to be in cockpit to shoot straight.

Yeah but on servers where you not locked in the pit you get F6 aces. I'd fly on UKded2 but its full of F6 aces (and they don't allow vulching which blows). It ruins the whole experiance; 0% immersion when people have F6 radar. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can't think of a more pointless and boring way to spend my flight time than vulching. No challenge, no fun. Remember, when you play with other people it's supposed to be enjoyable for them, too.

WOLFMondo
08-26-2009, 06:41 AM
And there we'll have to disagree. Go onto any decent server (including the server this thread is about) and vulching and surviving to go home is both challenging and expected.

If the map maker is any good (like the WC maps, Zeke vs Wildcat etc), avoiding flak, avoiding defending and returning aircraft and going home is a real challenge and a bit of an art, and also something quite realistic and immersive.

WOLFMondo
08-26-2009, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I actually enjoy a bit of f6 aceing.

All good fun as long as everyone is using it.

We'll have to disagree. Its just not possible to bounce an F6 ace because they are using there unrealistic radar to save them.

Xiolablu3
08-26-2009, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
I actually enjoy a bit of f6 aceing.

All good fun as long as everyone is using it.

We'll have to disagree. Its just not possible to bounce an F6 ace because they are using there unrealistic radar to save them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, you cant bounce, but you still have to shoot them down, which is actually harder BECAUSE they have the f6 radar.

Still, much shooting down occurs.

Its hardest on the bombers nad fighter bombers I think as they cannot use stealth to deliver their load.

WOLFMondo
08-26-2009, 08:46 AM
Yeah, especially with the shift+F6 cheat. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

na85
08-26-2009, 10:51 AM
It's not a cheat, it's a feature that Oleg put into the game.

BillSwagger
08-26-2009, 12:04 PM
The f6 or shift f6 feature has a place in the game, but it is odd that it is set up where you don't even have to see the plane in view. You could literally set up an auto key that would essentially act as a proximity radar.

I wouldn't go so far as to call it a cheat, as it is available to everyone, but for my tastes its just something i'd prefer not to have in game. Its not a deal breaker for me, because I find that the plane sets are what dictate which servers i play on. If i had three different servers/coops to choose from with similar plane sets, then I'd opt for the one(s) with out the external views.

I don't mind the internal padlock because at least the plane has to be in view, though even this has its exploits.

Part of me was wondering if a server is able to change the distance the player sees an icon/dots/tags etc., then what would keep a server from adjusting the distance the padlock views are enabled. I think it actually correlates with the tags, but i haven't messed around with those settings much to find out.

megalopsuche
08-26-2009, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
And there we'll have to disagree. Go onto any decent server (including the server this thread is about) and vulching and surviving to go home is both challenging and expected.

If the map maker is any good (like the WC maps, Zeke vs Wildcat etc), avoiding flak, avoiding defending and returning aircraft and going home is a real challenge and a bit of an art, and also something quite realistic and immersive.

Please explain how shooting a plane on the ground, or during landing or takeoff, is challenging.

Viper2005_
08-26-2009, 01:45 PM
The vulching attack itself is easy. That's why people do it.

The process as a whole is challenging however.

The first challenge is getting into position, deep behind enemy lines, to attack.

The second challenge is surviving the base defences (both AAA and fighters).

The third challenge is making good your escape, and landing without yourself being vulched.

These challenges are such that the majority of vulching attacks are unsuccessful, resulting in the death of the attacker and the survival of the intended victim. Remember, if you're parked on the ground, you can hit "refly" and instantly teleport out. If you spawn in and hear the air-raid siren, you should be ready to do so! The vulcher cannot do this.

Often, there are multiple air bases, and the presence of a vulcher over one will simply displace players on the other team to alternative base(s). These players will then hop into fighters and attack the vulcher in force...

Vulching in a non-permissive environment is an extremely difficult business, and most people actually do better overall in conventional air combat, which is why vulching is the exception rather than the rule in WarClouds.

BillSwagger
08-26-2009, 03:08 PM
Viper, i would argue that the way you describe vulching to be true for any other mission objective except for the fact that your opponents are usually on the ground. There is nothing exceptional about that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Come to think of it, i can can swipe an airfield til im out of ammo, and rtb, so long as there is no defensive fighters to interrupt me. Most of the time there aren't because i'm too busy shooting them on the ground or they diverted to another base. I can fly away and return to base with minimal damage from AA. So Its just my take on it, and i'm not sure how anyone could say that vulching isn't easy. I mean, i guess if your always that guy that flys into 5 or 10 fighters just to shoot at the 2 or 3 planes trying to take off, then yeah, that's hard.

na85
08-26-2009, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
Viper, i would argue that the way you describe vulching to be true for any other mission objective except for the fact that your opponents are usually on the ground. There is nothing exceptional about that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Come to think of it, i can can swipe an airfield til im out of ammo, and rtb, so long as there is no defensive fighters to interrupt me. Most of the time there aren't because i'm too busy shooting them on the ground or they diverted to another base. I can fly away and return to base with minimal damage from AA. So Its just my take on it, and i'm not sure how anyone could say that vulching isn't easy. I mean, i guess if your always that guy that flys into 5 or 10 fighters just to shoot at the 2 or 3 planes trying to take off, then yeah, that's hard.

Servers that disallow vulching are IMO kinda wussy in that regard. If your base is getting vulched, then your team is not running an effective CAP (combat air patrol).

Servers that have a "no vulching rule" or even worse a "no going near enemy bases" rule are basically just giving pilots an artificial home free whenever they get disadvantaged.

It happened a lot in WW2. Strafing is a valid tactic.

megalopsuche
08-26-2009, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
The vulching attack itself is easy. That's why people do it.

The process as a whole is challenging however.

The first challenge is getting into position, deep behind enemy lines, to attack.
Ehhh, maybe, but I'm not willing to count fighting bandits on the way to a vulch as making vulching itself challenging.


Originally posted by Viper2005_:The second challenge is surviving the base defences (both AAA and fighters).
Avoiding AAA is not a challenge, it's a coin toss. As for defending fighters, if you're vulching while there are fighters in the air, you're not only missing a good fight, but you're also making an SA blunder.


Originally posted by Viper2005_:The third challenge is making good your escape, and landing without yourself being vulched.
Same as the "challenge" of arriving at the vulch.


Originally posted by Viper2005_:These challenges are such that the majority of vulching attacks are unsuccessful, resulting in the death of the attacker and the survival of the intended victim. Remember, if you're parked on the ground, you can hit "refly" and instantly teleport out. If you spawn in and hear the air-raid siren, you should be ready to do so! The vulcher cannot do this.
I've spent 10 minutes hitting "refly" on a server where the map only had one base per side. One side had the other side's base capped, and insisted on only vulching. After 10 minutes hitting refly just before they would shoot me, I left.

rnzoli
08-26-2009, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
I've spent 10 minutes hitting "refly" on a server where the map only had one base per side. One side had the other side's base capped, and insisted on only vulching. After 10 minutes hitting refly just before they would shoot me, I left. Soooo this is your problem http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well, next time spawn with a TB-3 or something that has got a number of defensive guns and blast away - lots of fun, especially that the bomber on the ground seems to be such a juicy target for all vulchers that they won't leave until they get killed (and have to spend time to get to your base again - then you hop into a fighter and wait them out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

doraemil
08-26-2009, 07:51 PM
I would like warclouds to have no mods and 409 beta, then the 409 come out 409 official no mods.


I'll explain the mod thing later.


F6 . . . keep in. Its part of the game, and yeah ppl use it as radar . . . I use it sometimes when I'm lazy (or F2 and scan the skies).

yeah I found padlocking ground targets really gets you in 'pulled up just in time!' situations.

Never found much use in air targets for padlocking. I just track them with keyboard or mouse. Maybe its time for IR?


I think its ok to have vulching if you got multiple airfields.

It does suck if you have one field and opposite side gets really good. Such as when half of X Squadron logs with really good pilots, takes down CAP and then keep a bunch on guard while cycling crews in and out to keep a constant watch (after some run low ammo + fuel).

ANd your side can't put any planes on the air because they kick you down if you try to take off.

And no lerche to choose either . . .


And regarding mods . . .

anytime you use mods, you open the door for cheating. End of Story.

Granted they offer really cool stuff. But that comes at a price.

It happens in all game genre's. MMO's. FPS. RTS.

Even in ultra scanned / continually checked megahouse games like World of Warcrack, that is hosted independently from all the gamers or in most monitored Counterstrike 2 /Halo 3/ Medal of Honor servers hacks and cheats make it in.

For World of Warcraft they even had a guy that figured how to get through the encryption and upload for your character's (it uses a d20 dice roll system) rolls and he made a roll modifier so you got upper 75% high rolls (made the game easier) all the time (as opposed to the random 20 sided die rolls)

I was stuck on WOW until a new guild showed me how to cheat then I realized what a waste of a game it was. SOme people (like me) put hard work to build something up, develop the skill and eye, only to be nullified by some one that just happened to know the right guild and get in with the right people.


. They also made a mod to get the bytes flowing in that register monster (from the server side) attacks and allow you to set up a counter macro that auto ran when that type of attack came up for insta counters.

Insane, near impossible, but doable.

Even facebook mini games like Bejeweled 2 blitz can be hacked (if you have a certain browser and addon + the right scripts).

Myself I truely hate the no clip (walk thru walls / ghost) one.

It's no mystery why regional (on up)championship tournaments for video games have gamers use a "offical" contest designated machine with a stock set up (and no mods / add ons / etc). And all are the same spec / build, and same version of the game.




Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
I've spent 10 minutes hitting "refly" on a server where the map only had one base per side. One side had the other side's base capped, and insisted on only vulching. After 10 minutes hitting refly just before they would shoot me, I left. Soooo this is your problem http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well, next time spawn with a TB-3 or something that has got a number of defensive guns and blast away - lots of fun, especially that the bomber on the ground seems to be such a juicy target for all vulchers that they won't leave until they get killed (and have to spend time to get to your base again - then you hop into a fighter and wait them out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


so true, I've seen that happen. I'm waiting behind an SBD and then the gun starts moving and I go ext view and watch a strafer's engine catch on fire.

megalopsuche
08-26-2009, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
I've spent 10 minutes hitting "refly" on a server where the map only had one base per side. One side had the other side's base capped, and insisted on only vulching. After 10 minutes hitting refly just before they would shoot me, I left. Soooo this is your problem http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Well, next time spawn with a TB-3 or something that has got a number of defensive guns and blast away - lots of fun, especially that the bomber on the ground seems to be such a juicy target for all vulchers that they won't leave until they get killed (and have to spend time to get to your base again - then you hop into a fighter and wait them out http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Interesting suggestion. Unfortunately, no bombers were available at that base. Short version of the story is that I simply never returned to that server.

As for vulching, I've seen much, much worse than what I described above in Aces High. If you think you've seen "vulching" in Il-2, give their trial subscription a try. You'll see player commanded tanks sitting at the end of runways blasting people as they spawn in, multiple aircraft tripping over each other to vulch one guy who keeps re-upping, players crying and whining that the airfield should not be captured because the vulch session will end, etc.

Really, until you've played Aces High, you haven't seen what vulching can be in an online flight sim. Il-2 is sooooo much better in this regard (vast majority of servers) I'd hate to see it evolve into something similar.

na85
08-26-2009, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:

I've spent 10 minutes hitting "refly" on a server where the map only had one base per side. One side had the other side's base capped, and insisted on only vulching. After 10 minutes hitting refly just before they would shoot me, I left.

That's a flaw with the map, which is a completely separate issue.

WOLFMondo
08-27-2009, 03:59 AM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
And there we'll have to disagree. Go onto any decent server (including the server this thread is about) and vulching and surviving to go home is both challenging and expected.

If the map maker is any good (like the WC maps, Zeke vs Wildcat etc), avoiding flak, avoiding defending and returning aircraft and going home is a real challenge and a bit of an art, and also something quite realistic and immersive.

Please explain how shooting a plane on the ground, or during landing or takeoff, is challenging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your playing on those crappy arcade servers?

Right, first off, go onto warclouds, zeke vs wildcat, Spits vs 109's or another good server. then try vulching, surviving and landing at a freindly field afterwards.

Vulchers on these servers who employ no tactics or do not work with team mates are fun to watch as the AA and fighters on CAP beat the crap out of them. The only succesful vultures use team work and tactics to distract the AA, take the AA down, take down the CAP fighters and supress the airfield.

This then allows your team mates who are hunting ground objectives some room to hunt without much feel of being attacked.


Originally posted by megalopsuche:

I've spent 10 minutes hitting "refly" on a server where the map only had one base per side. One side had the other side's base capped, and insisted on only vulching. After 10 minutes hitting refly just before they would shoot me, I left.

Your on a crap server then. All the good servers with good map makers have adequate to excellent AA cover and at least 2 to 3 airbases per side.

WOLFMondo
08-27-2009, 04:03 AM
Originally posted by na85:
It's not a cheat, it's a feature that Oleg put into the game.

The Shift+F6 is a ludicrous cheat! It means you can find any aircraft on the map, at any distance and fly directly too it! How completely and utter unrealistic. Using it is akin to putting infinate ammo on.

Xiolablu3
08-27-2009, 04:13 AM
Just because a serever has different settings such as pit off or externals on does not make it a 'crappy server'. Some people enjoy those settings.

megalopsuche
08-27-2009, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
And there we'll have to disagree. Go onto any decent server (including the server this thread is about) and vulching and surviving to go home is both challenging and expected.

If the map maker is any good (like the WC maps, Zeke vs Wildcat etc), avoiding flak, avoiding defending and returning aircraft and going home is a real challenge and a bit of an art, and also something quite realistic and immersive.

Please explain how shooting a plane on the ground, or during landing or takeoff, is challenging. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your playing on those crappy arcade servers?

Right, first off, go onto warclouds, zeke vs wildcat, Spits vs 109's or another good server. then try vulching, surviving and landing at a freindly field afterwards.

Vulchers on these servers who employ no tactics or do not work with team mates are fun to watch as the AA and fighters on CAP beat the crap out of them. The only succesful vultures use team work and tactics to distract the AA, take the AA down, take down the CAP fighters and supress the airfield.

This then allows your team mates who are hunting ground objectives some room to hunt without much feel of being attacked.


Originally posted by megalopsuche:

I've spent 10 minutes hitting "refly" on a server where the map only had one base per side. One side had the other side's base capped, and insisted on only vulching. After 10 minutes hitting refly just before they would shoot me, I left.

Your on a crap server then. All the good servers with good map makers have adequate to excellent AA cover and at least 2 to 3 airbases per side. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I get the feeling I'm not supposed to name names when I call out stupid stuff like this, but the server was closed pit, no externals, with a historical planeset.

I'm going to agree with na85 and say it's a flaw of the map, and not the server in general.

I know the servers you're mentioning and have visited them at least once, but they don't match the settings I'm looking for, which is how I've ended up trying out a large variety, just to see what's there.

FYI, I'm looking for closed pit, no externals, but with minimap path (I get lost easily) and enemy icons out to ~3km. The only server I've found like that turned out to have the infamous "bnz=ban" rule, and so I had to give up on that one, too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

rnzoli
08-27-2009, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif Eh, why crying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
If you don't find your favourite combination, start your own, or learn to navigate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif it's also a lot of challenge and for me, fun

julian265
08-27-2009, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Right, first off, go onto warclouds, zeke vs wildcat, Spits vs 109's or another good server. then try vulching, surviving and landing at a freindly field afterwards.

You'd better not, vulching is a bannable offense in zekes and spits....

BillSwagger
08-27-2009, 10:25 AM
Actually, Il2 is the only combat sim i know of that bans vulching. But, there is also more depth in the other sims which involve invading and taking of a base.
We don't see that in Il2.....yet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

Vulching is only a problem for me when its not aloud. On some servers certain people get away with it, while others are immediately banned/kicked.
I'm not sure what's going on there, but its always made me wonder how some people can continually break rules, while the one time i fly with my nav lights on to land, i get kicked.
I haven't played Il2 online in weeks, and i really don't miss it. There might always be some level of bickering and whining in any sim, because people hate to lose. But you start throwing in the other crap like cheats, and repeat offenders, then its really a stupid time for me especially when other sims appear to have better systems in place for enforcing those sort of things.

I've actually had more fun offline with Il2 because of mods, which i have to say are pretty cool.
If I didn't have issues with playing online, i would probably say Il2 is the best flight sim out there.

Bill

Viper2005_
08-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
Viper, i would argue that the way you describe vulching to be true for any other mission objective except for the fact that your opponents are usually on the ground. There is nothing exceptional about that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Come to think of it, i can can swipe an airfield til im out of ammo, and rtb, so long as there is no defensive fighters to interrupt me. Most of the time there aren't because i'm too busy shooting them on the ground or they diverted to another base. I can fly away and return to base with minimal damage from AA. So Its just my take on it, and i'm not sure how anyone could say that vulching isn't easy. I mean, i guess if your always that guy that flys into 5 or 10 fighters just to shoot at the 2 or 3 planes trying to take off, then yeah, that's hard.

Bases tend to be much deeper behind enemy lines than normal ground targets.

Bases tend to have much more AAA. Base AAA in WarClouds tends to respawn.

Bases obviously have much more fighter cover than targets. Usually, you'll find that as soon as a vulcher is spotted, everybody switches to the other base and grabs a fighter with a light fuel load. The vulcher must therefore be very careful not to out-stay his welcome if he wants to live.

For quite some time, "Stacko's rule" was applied informally, and anybody caught vulching was chute-killed with extreme prejudice if shot down on their vulching sortie.

The survival rate for the average vulcher in WarClouds is pretty low, and most of them end up deciding that conventional combat is a more efficient way of scoring points.

megalopsuche
08-27-2009, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
Actually, Il2 is the only combat sim i know of that bans vulching. But, there is also more depth in the other sims which involve invading and taking of a base.
We don't see that in Il2.....yet http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
Bill

True, but the lack of base capture keeps the emphasis on the flying. In online flight sims where there is base capture, dogfighting and ACM take a back seat to the goal of base capture. Base capture isn't needed for motivating players to fight and practice ACM, so at best it's a distraction, and at worst it's an excuse for new pilots not to learn ACM.

TS_Sancho
08-27-2009, 12:44 PM
Viper is correct, Vulching aircraft on warclouds or spits/109's is a poor tactic.

If the base AAA doesnt kill you the nature of vulching puts you low and slow, usually deep in enemy territory making you a very easy kill.

Most quickly find that altitude and a clear line of retreat are vital ingredients to surviving in the full real servers.

Thats my two cents...

na85
08-27-2009, 12:48 PM
I'd be interested to see what vulching would be like in the 410. It can dive extremely fast and holds speed relatively well.

A dive from altitude, level out just before the enemy base, strafe ground targets, GTFO.

TS_Sancho
08-27-2009, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by na85:
I'd be interested to see what vulching would be like in the 410. It can dive extremely fast and holds speed relatively well.

A dive from altitude, level out just before the enemy base, strafe ground targets, GTFO.

When I played fighter ace we would take 2 ME110's with the 30mm mk108's and devastate enemy airfields. I can only imagine the ME410 would do it that much better.

I saw a 4 ship of the big gun mosquitos ignore the no vulching rule in spits/109's mods and just lay waste to a blue airbase a while back. It was impressive.

Viper2005_
08-27-2009, 01:05 PM
I'd be interested to see what vulching would be like in the 410.
You'd better hurry then, because the 410 will vanish this weekend.

http://www.war-clouds.com/modu...order=asc&highlight= (http://www.war-clouds.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5306&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)

IME, the best way to vulch is to dive bomb from unexpectedly high altitude, not least because of the shock value.

Level bombing the enemy airfield can also be effective; I recall one instance where an entire squad turned up in B-25s and did just that.

DKoor
08-27-2009, 02:32 PM
There was this map on UK_dedicated... P.11c vs Ju-87 (only pickings). Poland map.
I used to climb up with 1000kg bomb then release it from 2,5-3k with 10sec delay.
It was fun.

I once scored 2 or 3 aircraft that way.
Of course there are some people that are ****ed about this so they spent whole sortie on wingless aircraft not wanting to hit refly so I can't get 100 pts http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

na85
08-27-2009, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'd be interested to see what vulching would be like in the 410.
You'd better hurry then, because the 410 will vanish this weekend.

http://www.war-clouds.com/modu...order=asc&highlight= (http://www.war-clouds.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5306&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)

IME, the best way to vulch is to dive bomb from unexpectedly high altitude, not least because of the shock value.

Level bombing the enemy airfield can also be effective; I recall one instance where an entire squad turned up in B-25s and did just that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nah, I don't really fly Warclouds very often. Too much trash talk from the regulars.

julian265
08-27-2009, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Viper2005_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I'd be interested to see what vulching would be like in the 410.
You'd better hurry then, because the 410 will vanish this weekend.

http://www.war-clouds.com/modu...order=asc&highlight= (http://www.war-clouds.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5306&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=)

IME, the best way to vulch is to dive bomb from unexpectedly high altitude, not least because of the shock value.

Level bombing the enemy airfield can also be effective; I recall one instance where an entire squad turned up in B-25s and did just that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not vanishing, it just won't be available to people who don't use mods.

To summarise the link - WC is switching from mandatory unified installer to unrestricted 4.09b1m, which means you can use the UI if you want to, or plain 4.09b1m. CRT will be off.

na85
08-27-2009, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by julian265:

It's not vanishing, it just won't be available to people who don't use mods.

To summarise the link - WC is switching from mandatory unified installer to unrestricted 4.09b1m, which means you can use the UI if you want to, or plain 4.09b1m. CRT will be off.

But none of the maps will feature aircraft that are in new slots, only AI-made-flyables, which means none of the maps will feature the Me410.

DKoor
08-27-2009, 06:59 PM
It is easy people... WC will be fully compatible for stock game users http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (4.09b1m).
That means there are no mod planes or maps.

However there are mod cockpits for already existing (official) Ai planes.

That means you get to fly B-17, Hs-129 etc.
Me-410 is not "official" plane it is a mod plane... Me-210 however is "official" plane.

julian265
08-27-2009, 07:25 PM
Whoops, i forgot that the 410 wasn't AI flyable, only the 210.

WOLFMondo
08-28-2009, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by julian265:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Right, first off, go onto warclouds, zeke vs wildcat, Spits vs 109's or another good server. then try vulching, surviving and landing at a freindly field afterwards.

You'd better not, vulching is a bannable offense in zekes and spits.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When did that get introduced? I've not done it in a while on there but it used to be allowed. Theres been times when 6 or 7 B25's have bombed airfields back to the stone age. Down goes another good server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
Viper is correct, Vulching aircraft on warclouds or spits/109's is a poor tactic.

If the base AAA doesnt kill you the nature of vulching puts you low and slow, usually deep in enemy territory making you a very easy kill.

Most quickly find that altitude and a clear line of retreat are vital ingredients to surviving in the full real servers.

Thats my two cents...

That was my point which seems to be missed, vulching with no plan is poor and makes you a target and mostly gets you killed. Allot end up in a luftberry circle with AA and half a dozen fighters after them...they are doing it wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Vulching and surviving time after time takes planning and team work.

More to the point its a real world tactic. Why people are against it yet play full switch or near FS is beyond me.

WOLFMondo
08-28-2009, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
It is easy people... WC will be fully compatible for stock game users http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (4.09b1m).
That means there are no mod planes or maps.

However there are mod cockpits for already existing (official) Ai planes.

That means you get to fly B-17, Hs-129 etc.
Me-410 is not "official" plane it is a mod plane... Me-210 however is "official" plane.

Hows does that work? I assume you just join with 4.09b with mods enabled and it will just allow you to select those planes that are available with modded cockpits?

DKoor
08-28-2009, 09:38 AM
Yes... that's what I got from the WarClouds topic.
If you have a modded game and a B-17 cockpit, you can fly B-17, same applies to some other Ai only aircraft that are included in the list.
If you are a stock game user you can fly only planes that are flyable.

WOLFMondo
08-28-2009, 10:03 AM
Sounds good. Catch? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TS_Sancho
08-28-2009, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Sounds good. Catch? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You've still got icons?

megalopsuche
08-28-2009, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by julian265:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Right, first off, go onto warclouds, zeke vs wildcat, Spits vs 109's or another good server. then try vulching, surviving and landing at a freindly field afterwards.

You'd better not, vulching is a bannable offense in zekes and spits.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

When did that get introduced? I've not done it in a while on there but it used to be allowed. Theres been times when 6 or 7 B25's have bombed airfields back to the stone age. Down goes another good server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif


Originally posted by TS_Sancho:
Viper is correct, Vulching aircraft on warclouds or spits/109's is a poor tactic.

If the base AAA doesnt kill you the nature of vulching puts you low and slow, usually deep in enemy territory making you a very easy kill.

Most quickly find that altitude and a clear line of retreat are vital ingredients to surviving in the full real servers.

Thats my two cents...

That was my point which seems to be missed, vulching with no plan is poor and makes you a target and mostly gets you killed. Allot end up in a luftberry circle with AA and half a dozen fighters after them...they are doing it wrong http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Vulching and surviving time after time takes planning and team work.

More to the point its a real world tactic. Why people are against it yet play full switch or near FS is beyond me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hint: you're not actually fighting in a real war, but in a computer game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you want to simulate a real war, then the next time you are shot down, log off, and never visit that server again.

na85
08-28-2009, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:

Hint: you're not actually fighting in a real war, but in a computer game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you want to simulate a real war, then the next time you are shot down, log off, and never visit that server again.

So what?

Vulching is a legitimate tactic that was used in WW2 by real pilots flying real missions.

Banning vulching is exactly the same as banning Boom and Zoom, and we just had a thread about how lame it is to ban BnZ. Both are tactics, and both were used IRL. Why is it ok to ban one but not the other?

DKoor
08-28-2009, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:

Hint: you're not actually fighting in a real war, but in a computer game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If you want to simulate a real war, then the next time you are shot down, log off, and never visit that server again.

So what?

Vulching is a legitimate tactic that was used in WW2 by real pilots flying real missions.

Banning vulching is exactly the same as banning Boom and Zoom, and we just had a thread about how lame it is to ban BnZ. Both are tactics, and both were used IRL. Why is it ok to ban one but not the other? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I fail to see why anyone wouldn't want to simulate something that was legitimate in WW2.

This sounds more like an issue OTHER than the subject itself... another words flaw of the settings, map, planeset, loadout etc.

If server sports some reasonable difficulty settings, reasonably historical map, reasonably historical planeset/loadouts I fail to see why need to restrain some legitimate WW2 actions.
Huge amount of US airforce actions in WW2 was strafing/vulching.
They specifically targeted Me-262's when in landing pattern... etc.

megalopsuche
08-28-2009, 06:30 PM
Does it ever bother you when blue or red has far more players than the other color? Outnumbering the enemy by a huge margin is a "historical tactic," but none of you would abide it in a game. Howabout destroying the enemy's means of production so they have no fuel for their aircraft? That's also a historical tactic. Would it be good for Il-2 servers? The list goes on and on. Ultimately, "historical tactic" is a lousy justification. The correct question is: Does this feature or behavior promote quality air combat and the learning of ACM? Vulching fails this concept miserably, while energy fighting is one of its principle expressions.

julian265
08-28-2009, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
When did that get introduced? I've not done it in a while on there but it used to be allowed. Theres been times when 6 or 7 B25's have bombed airfields back to the stone age. Down goes another good server http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

I'm not sure, but apparently a few players complained about me after the rule changed, I made the mistake of taking "no targets at red/blue base" literally.

julian265
08-28-2009, 07:11 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
Does it ever bother you when blue or red has far more players than the other color? Outnumbering the enemy by a huge margin is a "historical tactic," but none of you would abide it in a game.

Honestly, it hasn't bothered me for a long time, with one exception: maps that have close bases, and only one per side (I'd probably leave the server regardless). Otherwise I just let the teams do their constant shift of balance, and fly what I want to fly. If my team is outnumbered, I just fly higher, more conservatively, and sneakier.

DKoor
08-28-2009, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
Does it ever bother you when blue or red has far more players than the other color? Outnumbering the enemy by a huge margin is a "historical tactic," but none of you would abide it in a game No that doesn't bother me, I play with these odds all the time both online or offline. Mostly offline tho as majority of players dislike tough odds.
However sometimes I quite enjoy these... for instance last time I remembered was offline where I got to intercept 6 Ju-88's and bunch of Bf-110's+Bf-109's with 6 I-153's... it was fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .


Howabout destroying the enemy's means of production so they have no fuel for their aircraft? That's also a historical tactic. Go here mate;
http://nkp.mohaces.com/
This server is one of the finest outhere... and one of the closest to the real thing.
You will see how from mission to mission there are simply uneven odds all the time... and also your actions and actions of all aircraft make a difference. For instance if my crash several aircraft of the same type next mission I fly I probably wont get a chance to fly those.
I flew Stalingrad 1942 campaign (was a blast really, I posted screens info here too) I remember when several Lavochkin 5's got crashed I had to wait for those aircraft few missions... in the meantime I flew Yak-1 and Yak-7A/B which are easy meat for the oppos there... Bf-109G2's http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .
Etc. etc.

On this server whatever you do, good or bad it will have some impact on future outcome of the battle.


Would it be good for Il-2 servers? The list goes on and on. Ultimately, "historical tactic" is a lousy justification. The correct question is: Does this feature or behavior promote quality air combat and the learning of ACM? Vulching fails this concept miserably, while energy fighting is one of its principle expressions. These servers are based around historical aspect so in a sense if you dislike that, you will also really dislike that server, but I encourage you to try it is is really fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .

Also about vulching... believe me or not I never vulched anything there in some 50 missions I played. I simply didn't get to vulch anything.
I had to take off and fly about 20 mins (average) to the enemy base, I was near enemy airfields maybe two three times, but if I attacked (solely) chances that I would die were at least 99% http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .
I mean you just have to be there to see all that... 4-6 (maybe more) or more small caliber 20mm AA's + several 88mm flak + vehicles... all it takes is one shot at the engine.
Maybe fuel tank too, and I wont make it home.
And if I fail (KiA/MiA) all my stat are erased... I kinda watched on that because I wanted to stay alive as long as possible, I managed to do just that for around 25 missions http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ...
Me and pretty much all other players sticked to the mission plan for the most part, that is important because you have protection of your comrades and everyone else in formation knows what to do. Well most of the times they do http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

....

To summarize, everyone has their share of fun with this game, no one can dispute that or belittle it. After all it is only a game.

However I don't understand if we are annoyed/surprised by BnZ ban and not vulch... it is all the same if you choose that road http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif .