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civildog
01-21-2005, 04:17 PM
Why?

Why does there seem to be less and less CoOps? Why more emphasis on AirQuake dogfight servers rather than on historical planes sets with mission-based objectives.

Even on servers with "missions" it seems like 99% of the pilots are in their usual fighters and nobody wants to hit the main objectives to win the game.

Just curious.

civildog
01-21-2005, 04:17 PM
Why?

Why does there seem to be less and less CoOps? Why more emphasis on AirQuake dogfight servers rather than on historical planes sets with mission-based objectives.

Even on servers with "missions" it seems like 99% of the pilots are in their usual fighters and nobody wants to hit the main objectives to win the game.

Just curious.

apl999
01-21-2005, 04:45 PM
I hear you bro. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Revolter_
01-21-2005, 04:56 PM
Sounds like there relishing the good old arcade mind set to me. Remember RedBaron free for all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

NOT FOR ME http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Sir.Robin-1337
01-21-2005, 04:56 PM
COOPs are the source of flight excellence.

I feel proud when, going down in flames, my enemy realises there is no refly.

civildog
01-21-2005, 05:05 PM
Absolutely, and I feel it's the only way to bring out the best in this game's potential. It's the only "full-real" there is.

Nothing like knowing you can't just shoot someone down and then run away to get your points while abandoning your mates to realise what team work is all about.

WUAF_Badsight
01-21-2005, 05:10 PM
i can no longer DF for hours

multiply Coops are this games saving grace

when im on , 9/10 flights are coops

Seahawk89 & co are the usual suspects , coops are our trade. will host / fly anything

big time coops fans are also the FL , MD , DR squads , GunNrun is another long-time coop fan/host

besides them , you also cant miss VFC_Sir_Robin when he spanks VFC_Host into gear

getting a coop going is as hard as getting a respectfull 1v1

JG5_UnKle
01-21-2005, 05:13 PM
well over 95% of flying time for me is in COOPs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bearcat99
01-21-2005, 05:22 PM
Most of what The Redtails do is coop related...... 332nd VFG... 99th FS......

We have the occasional DF forays.. some of us.. but Coops are what we do.. most our coops are made by 99th_RedDiamond .. but I have made a few and so has 99th_MosDef...

Coops are where it's at in this sim. The thing i like most about Coops is that they can also be run as single missions when you are alone.

T_O_A_D
01-21-2005, 06:56 PM
Coops rule hands down. Finding one and finding the right bunch to enjoy Teamwork is even more treasured.

NorrisMcWhirter
01-21-2005, 07:02 PM
Hi,

I fly co-ops almost exclusively these days - they are just so much more fun and realistic than the domain largely for the loner - DF.

As to them being scarce, it depends on the time of day, I find. They're also like buses; you wait for 20 mins and three turn up at once http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I don't know if you are just looking at the co-op 'rooms' on HL but try the Virtual Online War or Bellum as they are just a co-op with a league table (ok, that's a large over-simplification but you get the idea)

Ta,
Norris

civildog
01-21-2005, 07:05 PM
I only fly on HL so I know what you mean about feast or famine.

I haven't checked Bellum before, I really wanted to get involved in the online wars like Forgotten Skies (where my squadron is registered), but the timetables are are to square with my timezone too often.

Thanks, I'll check Bellum and VOR, too.

JG53Frankyboy
01-21-2005, 07:13 PM
whenever you are seeing a VOW2beta mission will be hosted in HL, feel free to join.
you must not be registrated in the beta http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
there are western , eastern , pacifik front missions from 1940 till 1945 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and a TS server with a bunch of funny people is also available http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Stiglr
01-21-2005, 08:06 PM
Don't you remember?

Oleg KILLED co-ops by adding the code that stopped people from collecting co-op scenarios they had participated in, in their cache folder. Then, later, people could rescue the files, adapt and change them, or just run them again with themselves as host. In this way, some scenarios became very popular, and people flocked to join them and their variants again and again. You didn't really need to be a skilled Scenario Designer author to be a good co-op host. You could merely base your co-ops on others until you learned how to make good ones yourself from scratch.

Once this was stopped, and with no good reason why, co-ops pretty much were gutted on HyperLobby. Only a few people really bother to learn the ins and outs of the Scenario Design module, and only these people can regularly run interesting co-ops.

It was a stupid, STUPID thing to do. Co-ops used to be a highly enjoyable alternative to the "no-point-to-it" dogfights, but now it's rare to find much action in co-ops anymore.

WUAF_Badsight
01-21-2005, 09:13 PM
there was as little interest in coops before FB when you could raid your mission cach

DFing has always been more popular

LeadSpitter_
01-21-2005, 09:22 PM
probally because most have externals on. People can always record a track and watch it later but people say externals are on for those who want to watch the fight but its always used for people to check six.

netwings and il2missions has alot of coop missions for people to host. there is also a bunch of sites in mission builder forum with lots of well made coops missions if people dont have the time to make them.

civildog
01-21-2005, 09:24 PM
Dang, I didn't even know you could cache the CoOps that way! I could have had a whole stack of good missions by now.

JG53Frankyboy
01-21-2005, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WUAF_Badsight:
there was as little interest in coops before FB when you could raid your mission cach

DFing has always been more popular <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey, remember the old days of IL2! there was a lot of COOP playing in HL !
Jagdhund_Buries "Vally of Death" was a calssic one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . well, its 3 years away

BaldieJr
01-21-2005, 09:31 PM
Coops died because I CANT GET INTO HYPERLOBBY!!!!111

Feggin chat-addicts. Jiri needs to fix HL so it boots people who yap for more than 3 minutes without joining a game.

@$#%@#$%

civildog
01-21-2005, 09:34 PM
It's not so much the lack of mission I lament, rather the dearth of CoOps hosted on the online servers.

I can't stand the DF servers, because there is usually no teamwork, except if you are with a squadron, and even then it's still reduced to just fighters vs. fighters and no one paying attention to the mission.

But when there's a good CoOp running I dive right in. Last night's on VFC were a blast because, except for one mission I was in, we all worked together as a group to achieve the missions.

The one that that didn't happen in makes my case for Co-Ops vs. DF: I'm sitting on the runway waiting my turn to take off. Everyone ahead and behind me just roars off and scatters to look for the enemy. While we are in the air the "leader" even asks "Anyone know what the mission is?" and I can't see anyone of my flight mates by then.

Well, when the 109's showed up it was butchery. I started heading for a Stuka as it was heading down and had my wing shot off by a 109. Every single other P-39 in our group - this is confirmed even by the German pilots- lost control and spun into the ground instead of getting shot down. It took about, oh, 60 seconds maybe and fight was over. I think the only Germans downed were by AAA.

The second Co-Op my side lost but, because it was a differnt group of players we fought together to achieve the mission. Which we lost, but still avenged our fallen comrades.

LuckyBoy1
01-22-2005, 08:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CivilDog:
Why?

Why does there seem to be less and less CoOps? Why more emphasis on AirQuake dogfight servers rather than on historical planes sets with mission-based objectives.

Even on servers with "missions" it seems like 99% of the pilots are in their usual fighters and nobody wants to hit the main objectives to win the game.

Just curious. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There are reasons I am willing to pry myself away from Hyperlobby and play with a direct connect squad. I like to fly cover. I like flying cover about 10 times more when I've got bombers or a JABO squad to protect. If I've done my job right, the bombers and or JABO's come home without a scratch. How many kills I get or how "rank" the game scores me do not play into my thinking.

In my opinion, it takes more brains to JABO by far than it does to dogfight. I also beleive it takes more brains to effectively cover a JABO squad than to do just about anything else in this game. I hear guys say...

I did my part... I got 4 enemy kills!

No, you didn't do your part because while you were off getting those kills, your JABO squad was torn to pices and they were not able to destroy their intended target. If they don't destroy their target, there wasn't really much point in even starting the planes.

F19_Ob
01-22-2005, 08:48 AM
I think stiglr has a point .

other than that....
Coops actually can be made like dogfightmaps.
You dont have to fill a coopmission with ai planes and hundreds of groundobjects.
It can be like in a dogfightmap with only flyable planes.
The gain is that u have moving vehicles that can go to specific locations and thus play an active part in an event or story.
and why not use some transport ai planes.
Transport or even bombers can add an interesting dimension.

So a coop does absolutely not have to be an arcade experience like many seem to belive.
Only drawback as I see it is that u have to wait for the other participants before mission start and if they are many it may take a while.

VW-IceFire
01-22-2005, 08:50 AM
I fly coops all the time. Lots of fun. How are they scarce? You can find them all the time on HL. Pedro, Seahawk, and Crazyivan are amongst the bunch that host them.

LuckyBoy1
01-22-2005, 09:10 AM
Also, many like to whine that there aren't enough coops, but are not willing to take the enormous effort it takes in...

Time: not just making and testing coops, but testing and setting up the hardware it takes to host the coop well when all is said and done.

Money: many can play online just fine on their dial-up, but are willing to pay extra that they normally would not have for better IP service and hard drives and hardware upgrades to increase the performance of their hosting capabilities. They even lower their eye candy settings a bit so their PC will resppond faster.

Then you'll get the jerks that whine about the mission you picked or the difficulty settings. All the more reason why I mostly play direct connect these days.

NorrisMcWhirter
01-22-2005, 10:40 AM
Hi,

There are plenty of 'fun' co-ops with externals on around but if you want to get serious and expect teamwork, you really do need to look into Bellum or VOW.

These are, IMO, the most realistic way you can play this game due to the difficulty settings and the fact that not covering properly or buggering off to do a spot of aerobatics when you should be in formation looking for bandits could well cost you your objective and it doesn't matter how many planes you shoot down when you finally get your finger out, you will be penalised, score wise, for losing the mission. i.e. it's quite possible that getting shot down and bailing out will leave you with more points than surviving and shooting a couple of planes down because your team won overall - this gives an incentive for teamwork and maintaining focus.

Civil: AFAIK you can download co-ops from VOW as they have a database of them.

Cheers,
Norris

Stiglr
01-22-2005, 10:57 AM
Actually, F19_Ob... it's more like, you can make dogfights into 'co-ops' if you populate the map with frontlines, and put targets and ground forces along the lines in an interesting fashion. And then cap the whole thing off with a good mission brief for players to read, so they have an idea what they're supposed to be doing.

It's true, the ground forces can't move or maneuver like in a true co-op... but they can still create an environment that draws fighters and bombers and strike aircraft together in more realistic ways than just flying between fields for no reason. This also can draw people with different mindsets; guys who like to drop eggs can fly with and against guys who just want to paint stars on the sides of their canopy...

sunflower1
01-22-2005, 11:28 AM
This is it, the whole game comes from the texture of making it something other than an ego fest or sitting in a room with a computer, alone.

The more I learn about this community, the more it seems like the last one I was in, bicycle racers. Only a few really caught on to what it was all about and when they did, they were, as a group, unbeatable. This team of Mexicans in St Louis were so selfless it was elegant. They could not be beaten. They could control a race if they felt like it, but that's bad form, so they seldom did. I remember a physically dominant racer yelling at them after a race in frustration because he was stronger than any of them individually, by a decent margin, but couldn't place in the money if they showed up. It was about as much fun as you can have to race against guys like that. It was so interesting that you never felt the pain, it was like being a floating head over a bike.

I understand that having somebody with a nasty pingtime is detrimental to gameplay, but are there any midwestern US coop fans that could spare a dime? I need a fix and maybe an uppermidwest server would work. My phone company uses hamsters somewhere in there and I know I'll be pushing 500 most of the time.

georgeo76
01-22-2005, 12:37 PM
Co-ops are alive and well as long as there are ppl willing to join and play. When Ivan runs VFC*Coops (usually on weekend nights around 10:00 EST GMT-5) we have no problem getting 30ppl in for as many as 8 games in a row. But all too often I see coops languishing in the lobby looking for players.

I wish there were others that with the bandwidth to include that many players at earlier times when our European pilots could enjoy them. It seems most of the guys w/ the bandwidth run DF servers instead.