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View Full Version : THE P51 IS BRITISH ANYWAY!



XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:35 PM
I just visited a very interesting thread by mattduggan about aircraft that envoke emotion. There were a lot of people pickin one particular aircraft as a war winner. I can never do this s it was the brave pilots and groun crew that had the skill that won the war, of course the Allies ability to out manufacture the Germans helped greatly, but the technology of the machine can only go so far, you only have to look at Malta, or even the airwar over Germany (especially with 163s and 262 attacking the bombers) it self to see that pilot skill and courage played a huge part.

The piece of allied equipment that gave us the biggest advantage over the Germans, if you must narrow it down, has to be the Roll-Royce Merlin. It was used to power that many different aircraft, that were great in their own right, don't forget the P51 would only have been a mediocre ground attack fighter without it! It also powered motor torpedo boats and tanks, how diverse is that!!

I'm not picking on yanks but as a brit I need to use every opertunity to remind many of them that our war lasted 6 years and not 3 and a bit, and neither of us could have done it without the other.

By the way I belive the Mustang was designed to meet Royal Air Force specifications.

p.s if anyone knows any better let me know because I enjoy learning about aircraft.

"They Gave All Their Tommorrows So That We Can Have Our Todays"

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:35 PM
I just visited a very interesting thread by mattduggan about aircraft that envoke emotion. There were a lot of people pickin one particular aircraft as a war winner. I can never do this s it was the brave pilots and groun crew that had the skill that won the war, of course the Allies ability to out manufacture the Germans helped greatly, but the technology of the machine can only go so far, you only have to look at Malta, or even the airwar over Germany (especially with 163s and 262 attacking the bombers) it self to see that pilot skill and courage played a huge part.

The piece of allied equipment that gave us the biggest advantage over the Germans, if you must narrow it down, has to be the Roll-Royce Merlin. It was used to power that many different aircraft, that were great in their own right, don't forget the P51 would only have been a mediocre ground attack fighter without it! It also powered motor torpedo boats and tanks, how diverse is that!!

I'm not picking on yanks but as a brit I need to use every opertunity to remind many of them that our war lasted 6 years and not 3 and a bit, and neither of us could have done it without the other.

By the way I belive the Mustang was designed to meet Royal Air Force specifications.

p.s if anyone knows any better let me know because I enjoy learning about aircraft.

"They Gave All Their Tommorrows So That We Can Have Our Todays"

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:37 PM
You should`ve put this with your other identically titled thread. Double posting like this will get you Locked!!

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:40 PM
Who cares about ponies, the IAR-80 won the war.



Be seeing you.

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:43 PM
No single type of anything won the war.

But, to be stupid, the 7.62 round won the war.

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:48 PM
The importance of the Merlin can not be overlooked. And i believe it doesn't get all the credit it should. But the Germans had a good competitor in the Daimler-Benz engines; so in effect they balanced each other .
Perhaps you meant to say the Packard, engine, because I doubt that Rolls-Royce could have produced enough Merlins to win the war. (just meant as a good natured dig.)

BTW I believe the Brits came to the USA to buy P-40s & North American told they could do better....hence the 90 day miracle.

One thing that all must admit is that the Brits had a nack for coming up with good names for our planes. UAAAC completly lacked in imagination in theis aspect i'm afraid.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:48 PM
In late 1939, with the likelihood of full scale war in Europe a major concern, the British Royal Air Force was looking seriously at methods of quickly increasing its fighter strength. In April 1940, the British Air Purchasing Commission approached North American Aviation with the intent of having them build P-40's for the R.A.F. Instead, North American offered to build an entirely new fighter using the same Allison V-1710-39 engine as the P-40. The British agreed only on the stipulation that a prototype be on hand within 120 days. North American designers Raymond Rice and Edgar Schmued immediately set about meeting the requirements. Schmued had been a part of Willy Messerschmitt's design group in Germany; no doubt the somewhat angular lines of the new fighter came from this relationship.
The Allison-powered prototype NA-73 was assembled within the specified period, but the engine was not yet ready, causing a delay of some six weeks before the NA-73 could fly. In the meantime, on May 4, 1940, the U. S. Army released the design for export sales with the condition that two of the planes be delivered to them for evaluation. At this time the NA-73 was assigned the XP-51 designation. The first and tenth airframes were sent to the Army for testing; these were given the serial numbers 41-38 and -39. An order for 150 P-51's followed. These planes were named "Apache" for a short time, but later the name "Mustang" was adopted for the P-51.

The P-51 was an immediate success. It outperformed even the Spitfire, but the Allison engine placed limitations on the performance. In England, a mock-up was devised to use the Rolls Royce Merlin in the P-51 airframe. One concept was to locate the new engine behind the cockpit, but this idea was rejected and the Merlin was mounted in the conventional position in the nose. Four airframes were adapted in England to take the Merlin engine. These planes had deep intakes below the engine for carburetor air. In the meantime, North American had undertaken a similar conversion project and was building two Packard Merlin-powered Mustangs. The results of the British tests were passed on to North American; and even before the Army's Merlin -powered Mustangs had flown, the U. S. Army ordered 2,200 of the more powerful fighters. For a short time, this model was designated P-78, then reclassed as P-51B.

To say the Merlin Mustangs were successful would be an understatement. The P-51 became one of the aviation world's elite. The total number of 14,819 Mustangs of all types were built for the Army. American Mustangs destroyed 4,950 enemy aircraft in Europe to make them the highest scoring U. S. fighter in the theater. They were used as dive-bombers, bomber escorts, ground-attackers, interceptors, for photo-recon missions, trainers, transports (with a jump-seat), and after the war, high performance racers.

XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:50 PM
People won the war, not machines.

See you in the fence.....

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XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 07:54 PM
If we didn't use the Merlin. We would have made one as good , or better. It's not like we can't make engines.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
07-22-2003, 08:03 PM
And to complicate things even further, the mustang had a German designer /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif before the war, he looked very varefully to the bf-109's of that time and so, the first mustangs where alot like the 109's. That changed of course with the coming of the bubble canopy on the P-51D. Anyways, a good site on the history of the mustang is here:

http://www.flightjournal.com/plane_profiles/p-51_mustang/p-51_mustang_history.asp

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

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