PDA

View Full Version : B25 manual bombing guide-chart



Drilling_857
12-09-2004, 09:04 AM
I see some posts here on bombing with the B25 so I thought I would put up the bomb chart I made for my flight group. The nice thing about this is you set the true airspeed for 200mph and fly that speed across the board for any bomb release altitude.

After spending some time manually releasing bombs using the norden but not the auto lock, this is the way to go.

It's just as easy but with a big plus of being able to drop your bombs on different targets on your flight path. You can even drop bombs on 2 or 3 different targets at different waypoints if you wish.

The first thing is to forget what the manual says as there is one crucial bit of info left out....What azimuth angle do you set the sight at for a given altitude and airspeed 30deg,34,40.......exactly, it's not there.

After some practice using 9000ft msl and 200mph as a base, the magic bombsite angle was 40deg. I repeated this 3 times with direct hits.
Then I made a run on an airfield with 6x500lb'ers and took out some structures at one end with 4 bombs(they drop in pairs) then waited until the cross hairs went over a hanger at the far end then dropped the last pair. All targets were hit dead nuts.

You use the same procedure as the auto to get set up ahead of time except you dont lock the sight on target for tracking.

After your aligned with the target(rudder trim with the level stabilizer engaged works great for left and right adjustments with out loosing the crosshairs by the way) and airspeed and altitude are good to go then adjust the site distance(move crosshairs down) to the correct angle as shown by the pointer, 40deg in the above example. now just wait until the target is just about to touch the horizontal crosshair then drop the number of bombs that you want using what ever key you have set to drop bombs.

If you want to salvo then use the auto lock method of course but if you want to train or drop on different targets then use this method.

Now you all are asking what if I want to bomb at 5k, well here is a chart(see below) for quick reference for the bombsight angle at a fixed airspeed for any given altitude with in reason of course.

I decided to do this the old fashion way, trial and error. Not knowing exactly how the bombing is modeled vs. real world values I decided to keep apples and apples in the same basket. The numbers may not match real figures but they work for the game and that is all that matters to me.

This way I know it works plus I had the added benefit of all that practice. I had already figured the 9000ft drop so using that as a starting point, I worked both ways from that. Once I found the angle setting that hit the target, I did at least 3 runs with that setting to make sure. There were a few game inconsistencies but all in all the hits were fairly consistent.

I used 6x500lb bombs and dropped at three different points along an airfield to see how consistent the release was, I then repeated this at least 3 times, sometimes 5. I was happy to see that it was consistent across the board.
I had to increase airspeed below 5000ft to maintain altitude using the level stabilizer. Also don't forget to switch the supercharger to stage 2 above 6000ft to maintain airspeed.

I have tested this online with are group of merry men with consistent results.
The results could vary from person to person and there maybe some online issues so feel free to compare and make changes and let me know if you find any inconsistencies, but above all, have fun and don't take it to seriously if you miss.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/Grouser/B25bombchart75.jpg

S! Drilling

Drilling_857
12-09-2004, 09:04 AM
I see some posts here on bombing with the B25 so I thought I would put up the bomb chart I made for my flight group. The nice thing about this is you set the true airspeed for 200mph and fly that speed across the board for any bomb release altitude.

After spending some time manually releasing bombs using the norden but not the auto lock, this is the way to go.

It's just as easy but with a big plus of being able to drop your bombs on different targets on your flight path. You can even drop bombs on 2 or 3 different targets at different waypoints if you wish.

The first thing is to forget what the manual says as there is one crucial bit of info left out....What azimuth angle do you set the sight at for a given altitude and airspeed 30deg,34,40.......exactly, it's not there.

After some practice using 9000ft msl and 200mph as a base, the magic bombsite angle was 40deg. I repeated this 3 times with direct hits.
Then I made a run on an airfield with 6x500lb'ers and took out some structures at one end with 4 bombs(they drop in pairs) then waited until the cross hairs went over a hanger at the far end then dropped the last pair. All targets were hit dead nuts.

You use the same procedure as the auto to get set up ahead of time except you dont lock the sight on target for tracking.

After your aligned with the target(rudder trim with the level stabilizer engaged works great for left and right adjustments with out loosing the crosshairs by the way) and airspeed and altitude are good to go then adjust the site distance(move crosshairs down) to the correct angle as shown by the pointer, 40deg in the above example. now just wait until the target is just about to touch the horizontal crosshair then drop the number of bombs that you want using what ever key you have set to drop bombs.

If you want to salvo then use the auto lock method of course but if you want to train or drop on different targets then use this method.

Now you all are asking what if I want to bomb at 5k, well here is a chart(see below) for quick reference for the bombsight angle at a fixed airspeed for any given altitude with in reason of course.

I decided to do this the old fashion way, trial and error. Not knowing exactly how the bombing is modeled vs. real world values I decided to keep apples and apples in the same basket. The numbers may not match real figures but they work for the game and that is all that matters to me.

This way I know it works plus I had the added benefit of all that practice. I had already figured the 9000ft drop so using that as a starting point, I worked both ways from that. Once I found the angle setting that hit the target, I did at least 3 runs with that setting to make sure. There were a few game inconsistencies but all in all the hits were fairly consistent.

I used 6x500lb bombs and dropped at three different points along an airfield to see how consistent the release was, I then repeated this at least 3 times, sometimes 5. I was happy to see that it was consistent across the board.
I had to increase airspeed below 5000ft to maintain altitude using the level stabilizer. Also don't forget to switch the supercharger to stage 2 above 6000ft to maintain airspeed.

I have tested this online with are group of merry men with consistent results.
The results could vary from person to person and there maybe some online issues so feel free to compare and make changes and let me know if you find any inconsistencies, but above all, have fun and don't take it to seriously if you miss.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/Grouser/B25bombchart75.jpg

S! Drilling

Buzzer1
12-09-2004, 10:45 AM
Nice work!
I'll give it a try...

Zeus-cat
12-09-2004, 11:15 AM
Thanks. I will definitely try this out!

Do you have any missions you would care to share? I'd like to get into bombing, but the game always has you attacking a small target like a truck convoy or 4 tanks. That is more appropriate to tactical aircraft like a P-47 than a medium bomber.

Can you fly as a leader of a group of AI planes and tell them to attack a specific target that has not been set up ahead of time with waypoints? It would be fun to do a B-25 or He-111 campaign with the player as the lead pilot where he/she has to lead them to a target and bomb it.

I got some interesting facts from a website for the 310th bomb Group

The B-25 was used for medium altitude daytime attacks on supply and ammunition dumps, railroad bridges and marshaling yards.

The typical altitude for bombing was between 7,000 and 12,000 feet, although the B-25 could be used at treetop level too.

The B-25 was often sent in with no fighter escort as the fighters were saved for the heavies like the B-17 and B-24.

Zeus-cat

Drilling_857
12-09-2004, 06:46 PM
Zeus-cat,

"Do you have any missions you would care to share?"
Not yet as I just started working on one. One of the guys in are group has been doing some for us so I worked on the techno part of it.

"Can you fly as a leader of a group of AI planes and tell them to attack a specific target that has not been set up ahead of time with waypoints?
All are missions have been for multi play so I am not sure of that. Will let you know if I come up with an answer for that.

S! Drilling

GoatseLives
12-09-2004, 07:25 PM
Have a look at this bomb table utility. Works great!

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=4261053052

merkava42
12-10-2004, 04:52 AM
Many thanks for this gold-nugget Drilling. This is exactly what I have been looking for. One have to be very precise with the figures gladly because that shows that your testing and calculation is very precise. Your chart is right on the spot so to speak. At like 15000ft I hit my target dead on. Once again mate many thanks for the "bomb-solution".

To Rune. Verden er lille hva´! DGPLS Jacob NASCAR aka Merkava.

Fornixx
12-10-2004, 06:13 AM
Now this is a great post! Think I'll finally try out some medium bombing tonight.

Thx a lot!

VF-29_Sandman
12-10-2004, 07:58 AM
think we should put u in for the silver star

VF-29_Sandman
12-10-2004, 08:16 PM
this should be made a sticky http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Osirisx9
12-11-2004, 01:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-29_Sandman:
this should be made a sticky http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Excellent work adn guide for the best aircraft in the sim ( please excuse me if I'm a little biased )http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif. I like the low level tree top approach the best but your work will make my favorite aircraft even more enjoyable to fly and kill in. I vote for this thread to become a sticky too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

RAF238thOsiris
www.warbirdsofprey.org (http://www.warbirdsofprey.org)

Drilling_857
12-11-2004, 02:18 PM
Thanks guys,

I would like to add, though probably obvious, that the altitude entered into the bombsight should be AGL(above ground level) as the bombing trials were all done above sea level(ASL). I should of made a note of that on the chart and said AGL.

I only could find one way of getting a targets exact altitude above sea level and that was using 'ctrl F1(no cockpit)' view and then doing a little math and making the adjustments to compensate for the difference. If anyone has another way, I would love to know it.

If your building a mission, it is quite easy to just put any plane with 1 waypoint above the target area and do a quick test flight to get the targets AGL altitude using the no cockpit view. Then include that important piece of info in the briefing. I wish that FMB gave you that altitude when you are placing the objects or other items. Well, another thing on the wish list for Oleg and crew.

Thanks again mates,

Drilling

Drilling_857
12-15-2004, 07:46 PM
At the risk of sounding arrogant I am going to bump my own post. The first reason is because I was asked and the second is because the search function in not working and some are missing it. The reason I put it up in the first place was to help the community and if I have to bump it then I guess it is for the best.

If I am out of line here then let me know.

S! Drilling

AWL_Spinner
12-16-2004, 03:54 AM
I've been doing much the same but with metric figures (kmh and metres) - does the bombsight's input change from metric to imperial when you change the Speedbar setting?

Nice work, by the way, I was only concentrating on a couple of key altitudes. That sight's very accurate if you get your approach right. And I agree about manual bombing vs auto, much better.

And another question - do you actually NEED to change anything bar the sight elevation if you are manually releasing the bombs? I think the speed and height calculations are just for the computer to work out the correct elevation for it's autorelease. If you know the sight elevation for a given height/speed, no need for the calculations.... I've not tested this yet but I can't see any difference changing the alt/speed whilst looking through the sight.

Cheers, Spinner

EURO_Snoopy
12-16-2004, 04:09 AM
Drilling, If there are no objections I'd like to add this to our guides page at Airwarfare (http://www.airwarfare.com/guides.htm)

TIA

AFJ_Locust
12-16-2004, 06:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drilling_857:

The first thing is to forget what the manual says as there is one crucial bit of info left out....What azimuth angle do you set the sight at for a given altitude and airspeed 30deg,34,40.......exactly, it's not there.
S! Drilling <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

DUDE IVE BEEN BANGING MY HEAD AGAINST THE WALL TRYING TO FIGURE THIS OUT!!!

The Stupid manual sayes to set the sight to 85 Degree's when using auto drop Nothing ever hits I was getting realy disapointed ......

Thanks for the great chart will test Asap!!!

Schmouddle-WT
12-16-2004, 07:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drilling_857:
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dear Drilling_857,

On behalf of producer of Bombsight Table, WT_Pedropan, I would like to ask you for cooperation.

For the Bombsight Table software, see:
Bombsight Table thread here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=4261053052)

At this moment, our software just calculates the IAS a TAS difference with height gained.

WT_Pedropan is now in process of calculating the figures for adding the calcualations for manual release of bombs (bomsight angle vs speed & height).
If you wish to cooperate on this quite useful software too, just PM me or WT_Pedropan.

Drilling_857
12-16-2004, 08:56 AM
AWL_Spinner,
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> I've been doing much the same but with metric figures (kmh and metres) - does the bombsight's input change from metric to imperial when you change the Speedbar setting?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The sight does not change with the speedbar.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>And another question - do you actually NEED to change anything bar the sight elevation if you are manually releasing the bombs? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a good question and I would say that you are right. It should not matter, the only important value is the planes airspeed as the tests were done useing 200mph so the release angles are for that airspeed. You could use a different airspeed but the sight angles would have to be recalculated for that speed.
I will test that out, I have allways set the altitude and speed into the sight incase I decided to drop automatically.

I picked 200mph basically because at slower speeds the level stabilizer could not hold the altitude and at higher elevations I was almost at full power and did not want to use WEP for a higher airspeed.

S! Drilling

Drilling_857
12-16-2004, 09:21 AM
Euro_Snoopy,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Drilling, If there are no objections I'd like to add this to our guides page at Airwarfare <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sure thing mate, glad I was able to do something for the community.

Schmouddle-WT,
Will PM you shortly.

Edit: PM on the way all though I think it would of been faster to of sent a note to you via the US postal service http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

S! guys and thanks
Drilling

AWL_Spinner
12-16-2004, 09:38 AM
Just run some tests, there's no need to enter any other information (TAS or Alt) into the sight if you're manually releasing the bombs.

The fact that I'd been putting in metres instead of feet and yet still hitting things should have been a bit of a giveaway for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Incidentally, Schmouddle-WT, I think your app MAY be incorrect in one detail - you list TAS in kmph and mph, I think you are actually refering to kmph and knots (or the other way round, I forget). I only noticed this earlier in passing today whilst compiling some charts of my own - sorry if I'm wrong, I'll pay it some more attention later and double-check.

Cheers, Spinner

Buzzer1
12-16-2004, 10:11 AM
Hei Jacob http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
We stick to the same quality games I see... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Dizz_310th
12-16-2004, 10:53 AM
I believe Spinner is correct. Table is actually showing knots and not mph.

GoatseLives
12-16-2004, 04:33 PM
So in effect using this method allows you to make mutltiple passes and score direct hits as if you were using laser guided bombs? Ok maybe that's a bit extreme but it still sounds gamey, IMO, but that's just me.

AFJ_Locust
12-20-2004, 07:24 PM
Man I still cant hit jack even using that table

Im not a bombing noob either.

Been bombing with He111 & Tb3 since they were released, Something isint right still IMHO.

Schmouddle-WT
12-21-2004, 12:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dizz_310th:
I believe Spinner is correct. Table is actually showing knots and not mph. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct, speed is labelled mph, altough the calculations is in knots.

Sorry - As landrats used to metric system, we decided to put mph there, altough not being correct at all. In next version, when everybody gets used to it, we are about to change it to knots. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Daytraders
03-29-2006, 10:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Drilling_857:
I see some posts here on bombing with the B25 so I thought I would put up the bomb chart I made for my flight group. The nice thing about this is you set the true airspeed for 200mph and fly that speed across the board for any bomb release altitude.

After spending some time manually releasing bombs using the norden but not the auto lock, this is the way to go.

It's just as easy but with a big plus of being able to drop your bombs on different targets on your flight path. You can even drop bombs on 2 or 3 different targets at different waypoints if you wish.

The first thing is to forget what the manual says as there is one crucial bit of info left out....What azimuth angle do you set the sight at for a given altitude and airspeed 30deg,34,40.......exactly, it's not there.

After some practice using 9000ft msl and 200mph as a base, the magic bombsite angle was 40deg. I repeated this 3 times with direct hits.
Then I made a run on an airfield with 6x500lb'ers and took out some structures at one end with 4 bombs(they drop in pairs) then waited until the cross hairs went over a hanger at the far end then dropped the last pair. All targets were hit dead nuts.

You use the same procedure as the auto to get set up ahead of time except you dont lock the sight on target for tracking.

After your aligned with the target(rudder trim with the level stabilizer engaged works great for left and right adjustments with out loosing the crosshairs by the way) and airspeed and altitude are good to go then adjust the site distance(move crosshairs down) to the correct angle as shown by the pointer, 40deg in the above example. now just wait until the target is just about to touch the horizontal crosshair then drop the number of bombs that you want using what ever key you have set to drop bombs.

If you want to salvo then use the auto lock method of course but if you want to train or drop on different targets then use this method.

Now you all are asking what if I want to bomb at 5k, well here is a chart(see below) for quick reference for the bombsight angle at a fixed airspeed for any given altitude with in reason of course.

I decided to do this the old fashion way, trial and error. Not knowing exactly how the bombing is modeled vs. real world values I decided to keep apples and apples in the same basket. The numbers may not match real figures but they work for the game and that is all that matters to me.

This way I know it works plus I had the added benefit of all that practice. I had already figured the 9000ft drop so using that as a starting point, I worked both ways from that. Once I found the angle setting that hit the target, I did at least 3 runs with that setting to make sure. There were a few game inconsistencies but all in all the hits were fairly consistent.

I used 6x500lb bombs and dropped at three different points along an airfield to see how consistent the release was, I then repeated this at least 3 times, sometimes 5. I was happy to see that it was consistent across the board.
I had to increase airspeed below 5000ft to maintain altitude using the level stabilizer. Also don't forget to switch the supercharger to stage 2 above 6000ft to maintain airspeed.

I have tested this online with are group of merry men with consistent results.
The results could vary from person to person and there maybe some online issues so feel free to compare and make changes and let me know if you find any inconsistencies, but above all, have fun and don't take it to seriously if you miss.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v55/Grouser/B25bombchart75.jpg

S! Drilling </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok well i tried 9,000ft at 170mph in speedbar and 40 angle and its way off for me in B25, am i doing something wrong or reading chart wrong ? thx

Crash_Moses
03-29-2006, 11:00 AM
Well, I've been practicing manual bombing a lot lately and I've found that in the B-25 you need to release your bombs slightly before the cross-hairs reach the target. The first set of bombs will hit just the other side of the release point. I've found this to be true using the automatic bombsight as well.

I hit the target everytime... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Daytraders
03-29-2006, 11:31 AM
so i am putting in the right stuff at 9000ft correct, also how much before do u release before like 1cm of screen,you use same chart m8. thx

Crash_Moses
03-29-2006, 12:49 PM
Wellllll....now that you mention it, I started out using that table but I actually haven't used it in quite awhile.

Instead, I use Bombsight Table 2 which is a little TSR (terminate and stay resident program) that calculates bombing angles for you. Works great!

Anyway, I popped it up and entered your figures. Now, the program is geared towards metric but converts to SAE in metric increments...which is just a long convoluted way of saying, "I can't enter exactly 9,000ft." But I can get close...

Altitude = 9,020 ft (2,750m)

IAS = 168 mph (270kph)

TAS = 198 mph (319kph)

Angle = 37.29

So, it looks like the chart is a little off. I'd switch to meters/kph and use the above figures to see if they work. I'll try it tonight when I get home.

Or, if you just want to use Bombsight Table 2 here's a link:
http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_essential_files.htm#002

S!

Daytraders
03-29-2006, 01:20 PM
thx for reply m8 and yes i have the bombsite 2 program and its great but the angle is for he111 etc and not the b25 i thought ? as the b25 sites are out like 10% is this not correct, thx

Crash_Moses
03-29-2006, 01:46 PM
Nope! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The 10% correction applies to your TAS and is only necessary for automatic bombing (although I think most folks don't bother with it even then...myself included. I just adjust the TAS until the bombsight stays on target. Much easier than trying to figure TAS and, according to accounts I've read, a similar technique to the one bombadiers actually used.)

I've never had a problem using BST2 with the B-25. Put in your altitude and your IAS and use the angle it gives ya... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Daytraders
03-29-2006, 06:50 PM
thx m8 i will try useing the angles in bombsite 2.

Krakkers
03-31-2006, 05:09 AM
I must be the only person I know that likes using the B-25 at under 1000 meters.

that way with 3 or 4 planes in the flight you can usually avoid the main weakness of the b-25 (no guns in the belly) and hitting targets with bombs when you drop them from treetop height is much easier, although I have to admitt if you forget to set a delay it can get messy (or even messier for your Charlie if you don't set a sufficient Bomb delay http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif