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View Full Version : An interesting experience on a He-111... or is it a bug?



XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 03:46 AM
I have an interesting experience on a He-111, and the situation is like that:
When I was flying a He-111, my plane is under attack by some Yak 1. I was the pilot to fly the plane, and I was killed, then the whole screen is blackened as usual. Then when I thought of the crews, they need to bail out, but when I switch to every positions, all of them are "stick" in their positions -- I can switch to every position, but everyone cannot move (that is cannot fire their guns, cannot use the mouse to turn their heads, cannot bail out...)!! And when I switch on the "Auto pilot", the computer fly my plane home safely, (!?!?) Anyone have this experience? Because my experience may show some bugs inside the game... or just one in a million that only my computer's gone something wrong

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 03:46 AM
I have an interesting experience on a He-111, and the situation is like that:
When I was flying a He-111, my plane is under attack by some Yak 1. I was the pilot to fly the plane, and I was killed, then the whole screen is blackened as usual. Then when I thought of the crews, they need to bail out, but when I switch to every positions, all of them are "stick" in their positions -- I can switch to every position, but everyone cannot move (that is cannot fire their guns, cannot use the mouse to turn their heads, cannot bail out...)!! And when I switch on the "Auto pilot", the computer fly my plane home safely, (!?!?) Anyone have this experience? Because my experience may show some bugs inside the game... or just one in a million that only my computer's gone something wrong

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 04:21 AM
that doesnt sound like a bug. i mean, if the pilot is killed, but the plane is still flyable...why should the crew bail out? the copilot is capable of flying if he has to..right?

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 06:02 AM
Who do you mean by copilot? If you mean one of the gunners, well, maybe, but I don't know whether they trained the gunners to have any flying skills or not. To me his story sounds like a minor bug.

------------------------------------------

"If you put tomfoolery into a computer, nothing comes out of it but tomfoolery. But this tomfoolery, having passed through a very expensive machine, is somehow enobled and no-one dares criticize it." - Pierre Gallois

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 06:18 AM
Remember that guy with the bombsight?

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 06:40 AM
that guy with the bombsight is me. its still a problem. and so is the bail out one too.
lou69

THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WON WITHOUT THE CANADIANS

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 08:22 AM
computer_67 wrote:
- Who do you mean by copilot? If you mean one of the
- gunners, well, maybe, but I don't know whether they
- trained the gunners to have any flying skills or
- not. To me his story sounds like a minor bug.
-
-------------------------------------------
-
- "If you put tomfoolery into a computer, nothing
- comes out of it but tomfoolery. But this tomfoolery,
- having passed through a very expensive machine, is
- somehow enobled and no-one dares criticize it." -
- Pierre Gallois

ya i forgot bout the 111. shows how much i know bout these old a/c. im thinkin its like a 17 or something hmmm. well, werent bombadiers qualified pilots in one way or another on them things? i mean, they sorta flew the plane. or was that just with the norden bombsite? anyhow, does sound like a small bug.

"diplomacy is saying 'good doggie' until you can find a really BIG rock."

Message Edited on 08/11/0307:25AM by TheGeneral_D

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 09:53 AM
Yeah, I remember the bomberier, but in fact, I CAN'T control ANYONE, although the co-pilot is still alive. So, for me, it possibily is a bug.
Anyway, just want to report a "possible bug"

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 11:50 AM
To my understanding, the bombardier only controlled the rudder, and had limited control over either the pitch or the speed, and all of it was through the autopilot. He had enough control to adjust the aircraft's flight to get the bombs on target, but he certainly wasn't trained in take-offs or landings.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
08-11-2003, 01:25 PM
I have no information to back this up (but I'll be searching for some after I post this), but it seems like FB has the pilot assuming the role of bombardier on both the He111 and the TB3. Wasn't the bombardier on the He111 actually the nose gunner? Judging by the external model of the Heinkel, it seems like the nose gunner is in the same position the bombardier would use for the bombsight.

I've also had the situation of having the pilot killed and other crew stations locking up. I once was in the ventral gunners position when the pilot was killed, and my position as well as all the others stopped responding. Seems FB considers the whole airplane dead if the pilot dies. AP will get the plane home, but for some reason, if the plane gets seriously damaged and starts heading for the ground, the crew will still not bail out.

Edit: I found some information, but I don't know about the accuracy:

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/GERheinkel111.htm
"A glassed-in cockpit gave the pilot greater visibility and the bomb-aimer was able to lay forward in the transparent nose."

Which to me would suggest the bombardier was the nose gunner, and:

http://uncleted.jinak.cz/pdf/hebomb2.pdf
Not a web page, but a link to a pdf document with pretty detailed information about the He111's performance. Good stuff if you're into bombers, like me



SSgt Tim Schuster
8MXS Inspection Section
Kunsan AB, Korea

-Defend the Forums!
-Accept Follow-on Patches and stuff!
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Message Edited on 08/12/0303:54AM by Aardvark892

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 03:57 AM
Yes, I have noticed the same problem...it seems the pilot and bombardier are the same...

Or rather, that when you are the bombardier, you are forced to handle all the control issues (i.e. keeping the plane steady) that the pilot SHOULD handle. Yes, there is a level autopilot, but I still think an AI pilot should take over keeping the plane perfectly steady and at a constant speed if you choose to take the bombsight.

And vice versa, if you decide to keep piloting, an AI should take care of managing the sight and dropping the bombs instead of forcing you to go down to the sight.

***************************************

"Oh no, the V-1 Doodlebug is heading for our bunghole!" ---David

"...I possess the wings of faith. Though heavy on my shoulder (no measurement can prove their weight), still a burden are they not to me. I am the challenger of gravity." ---Emperor

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 04:01 AM
A similar problem is when you are manning a gunner position, and that gunner is killed.

You will then be unable to control any other position, even the pilot, despite the pilot still being alive.

I hope they fix that one. I like to use the Ju-87G gunner, but I always lose control of the plane if the gunner is killed while I'm using it.

<div align=center>http://www.members.shaw.ca/fennec/plane.jpg </div><font size=-9>


Message Edited on 08/11/0309:02PM by StG77_Fennec

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 04:46 AM
At least for USAAF B-24s bombardier, pilot and navigator (gunners too?) had the same basic flight training and were placed according to test scores and need in their respective positions. Its possible the other crew could take over in an emergency.

XyZspineZyX
08-12-2003, 06:09 AM
all other crew in a US bomber were wash outs from pilot training. this may not be the case for all the other crew in a bomber some may have switched to be a gunner insted of a pilot.
lou69

THE BATTLE OF BRITAIN WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN WON WITHOUT THE CANADIANS