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View Full Version : P47 - is my own country trying to kill me?



RichardFF
11-18-2006, 11:08 PM
While fast on the straight and narrow it manuevers like a bomber and has so much nose you can't see your target. Just figuring out how to aim this thing is a challenge!

Or is it just me...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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TC_Stele
11-19-2006, 02:23 AM
Well it is a fighter bomber. Sure it runs like heavy truck, but it can carry a massive loadout, has the 8 .50s and is practically a flying tank.

Treat it as an energy fighter rather than a turn fighter. You can do a search here on the forum to find out what I mean by energy fighting.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JG53Frankyboy
11-19-2006, 03:16 AM
already 7 pages http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
http://forums.<b style="color:black;background-color:#a0ffff">ubi[/b].com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2001062894/p/1 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/2001062894/p/1)

however, the D-10 and D-22 are very different in performance to the Bubbletop ones !
check il2compare.......

AKA_TAGERT
11-19-2006, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by RichardFF:
Or is it just me... Just you<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VF51_Flatspin
11-19-2006, 08:47 AM
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RichardFF
11-19-2006, 07:54 PM
Thanks for the link Frankyboy.

This plane has a huge following in and out of gaming and I looked forward to flying it. Nope, it was not as expected and I think that is made clear here and in the long thread based on the special things I am finding out about it.

I am a noob... Know lots more about aircraft than most due to modeling, U control and RC plus my passion for the Pacific theater. Still figuring out the radio stuff and get lots of "unable to comply" responses which naturally means I am doing something wrong although my command makes perfect sense to me. Could have saved the crew last night with a "we are landing here" command but alas, they went missing along with the rest of the flight... That's what happens when there is no carrier for your landing!

My flying is offline GOD mode retaining some limitations of real flight for when I eventually go sim as to not create any bad habits.

I understand some of the strategic dymamics yet things are not necessarily perfect in IL2 either in terms of realistic performance. So far I like the Seafire and F6F bunches, the FM2 and P40 is ok and the F4F frustrating but workable in terms of fighter applications. I suppose it could be those are planes that suit me well.

I was surprised by the P51 and P47. While the P51 was more to my liking I would rate it as merely OK. The P47 seemed very jeckyl and hyde to me and with that link I now know why yet that doesn't change the fact that to me it flys like a heavy bomber applied as a high speed killing tank. The survivability of the aircraft plays no role for me now so I may certainly come back later to pay my due respects as well.

I guess part of my frustration is my first flight happened to be an ending flight for that career of escorting a B29 over Nagasaki with a P47. This sure seemed to be more difficult than most. The first battle happens midway with two bogies, no big deal for us four. Then the bomber makes the turn for home and coming across the other side of the harbor are SIX bogies and it doesn't take much to take out the B29. Based on what I read with the P47 ya gotta know where you want to be before you get there because it's hard to change your mind later and that is exactly how I felt, trapped, unable to be spontaneous and with overwhelming force, that fragile B29 and my first time behind the wheel I hated this plane.

Please help me to like it... a great start would be

What in the world am I aiming with and who put this huge bar right in the middle of my view? There is a cross hair and this pointed stick thingy but it sure seemed the target area was right where that bar is, in the way.

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VW-IceFire
11-19-2006, 08:32 PM
Well in regards to the question about the bar in the way...you're flying the P-47D-10 or D-22. The visibility out the front is aweful. Part of the problem is that the game doesn't do the best job (and its REALLY hard to do it) of simulating stereoscopic vision. The human eye and brain combination is quite complex...the brain takes all of the information from both eyes and weaves it together to present one view. Except that the brain actually presents the best of both views. So looking at that bar in real life would be less of a problem as your eyes will "see around it".

Secondly..press Shift-F1 to ensure that you're looking straight on the sight. Just incase you aren't http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Thirdly...fly the P-47D-27 instead. The visibility is excellent in comparison. The gunsight still looks a bit off but its a great view and fantastic for deflection shooting.

The P-47 in the game as it is now is the best its ever been and it now lives upto reputation whereas I don't think it did so before (back in the 1.0 days). Its still got some modeling issues but few planes don't and the 47 is a great thing to fly.

My suggestion is to keep flying QMB's with it for a while. I practiced for a long time working my way up in the opponent plane types and skill levels till I became confident. Work on gunnery, check your gun convergence settings (I like to bring them into about 250/275, some prefer further out, others much closer), and try and be smooth on the stick. The P-47 does a lot of things but it doesn't like to do them fast. You need to be deliberate with your movements in all respects...a gentle turn will sometimes net you better results than a violent one.

You are right...the P-47 is a plane where you plan to be somewhere. If you aren't there...you're probably in trouble. Whereas a Spitfire you might have more of a chance to turn the tables immediately.

I'll also point out that flying the Tempest and Corsair are similar experiences to the P-47 but perhaps less extreme as they are a little more agile. You may want to try all three and start to get a feel for the heavier fighters.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JamesBlonde888
11-19-2006, 08:52 PM
What in the world am I aiming with and who put this huge bar right in the middle of my view? There is a cross hair and this pointed stick thingy but it sure seemed the target area was right where that bar is, in the way.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yes that is totally ridiculous. I never had many problems flying it in European Air War but the gunnery was a bit easier in that one.

Personally I would give the Razorback models a big miss just for that.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Airmail109
11-20-2006, 02:09 PM
Most people forget, you dont aim at your target you point your areoplane at it....i can shoot without a gunsight. Learn to do this, then views wont matter so much.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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RichardFF
11-20-2006, 04:46 PM
Thanks for the tips Ice Fire. Now if I can just get my P47 campaign fixed...

Drove the P51 again last night and I guess I am learning something I did not know... Altitude. Never quite realized what another 10,000 feet can do for you nor that this was a limitation on earlier aircraft. I have a much better appreciation for some of the comments made on that other link.


My suggestion is to keep flying QMB's with it for a while.

I need to check that thing out since there are a number of planes that are not available in the canned missions. sounds like I could be driving that P47 no prob...


So looking at that bar in real life would be less of a problem as your eyes will "see around it".

Wow, that makes a lot of sense and is an example of how simming reality is not always practical no matter how accurate you want to be. I would have voted for a very small bar to try and satisfy both camps. Like Jamesblonde I think I would prefer without, starting out anyway.


You are right...the P-47 is a plane where you plan to be somewhere. If you aren't there...you're probably in trouble.

Or if your opponent out maneuvers you on the way there...

Will be driving the Corsair for real tonight for the first time and look forward to it! I did drive it in the beginning practicing take offs; actually managed to do it on a carrier one time and man, there doesn't seem to be any wiggle room for error to make that happen and thrilled to know I can have autopiolot do it for me instead.

As for using a gunsight it is an easy reference point but sure, with en

VW-IceFire
11-20-2006, 08:10 PM
Lots and lots of training...thats...I guess...the appear. The thing is...the planes that generally require training are also the most rewarding. They are more extreme in their abilities which means when you do manage to capitalize on those strengths...you're so much better than what the enemy can throw at you.

Good luck!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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JamesBlonde888
11-20-2006, 09:10 PM
Note to self. Always attack P-47D in 90 degree bank from full head on.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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mortoma1958
11-24-2006, 02:36 PM
I don't know why but I never really had a problem with the poor view in the two early razorbacks. EAW modeled razorbacks too and it never bothered me in that sim either. But I also have a ton more simming experience than most people too.

BillyTheKid_22
11-24-2006, 06:09 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif P-47D-27 GOOD!!!!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VW-IceFire
11-24-2006, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by mortoma1958:
I don't know why but I never really had a problem with the poor view in the two early razorbacks. EAW modeled razorbacks too and it never bothered me in that sim either. But I also have a ton more simming experience than most people too.
That helps. You know you've been simming for a while when you start shooting at aircraft you can barely see or are hidden under your canopy bracing and still score hits.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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TgD Thunderbolt56
11-24-2006, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Most people forget, you dont aim at your target you point your areoplane at it....i can shoot without a gunsight. Learn to do this, then views wont matter so much.

Agreed. I continue to fight frequently with my gunsight shot out. But answer me this...why does my impact point change when my sight has been shot out? The bore of my weapons is still centered in the same place. This one thing annoys me to no end. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif


TB<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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RichardFF
11-25-2006, 04:37 PM
with my gunsight shot out

huh? I think of the gunsight in the cockpit... how does that get shot out but not you? Luck?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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R988z
11-27-2006, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by RichardFF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">with my gunsight shot out

huh? I think of the gunsight in the cockpit... how does that get shot out but not you? Luck? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

could easily be hit from an angle with no chance of hitting the pilot.

JamesBlonde888
11-27-2006, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Agreed. I continue to fight frequently with my gunsight shot out. But answer me this...why does my impact point change when my sight has been shot out? The bore of my weapons is still centered in the same place. This one thing annoys me to no end. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif


TB

Does it? I hadn't noticed this. Then again I try to avoid getting hit. Nasty things bullets, they let the draught in.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Philipscdrw
11-30-2006, 05:43 AM
Originally posted by RichardFF:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">with my gunsight shot out

huh? I think of the gunsight in the cockpit... how does that get shot out but not you? Luck? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's an American aircraft - the cockpit is big enough to host a small dance party!

There's the anecdote of the RAF/SAAF pilot who, when under fire in his Thunderbolt, left his seat and ran around inside the fuselage to avoid the fire... (that story is made up, by the way, but it was made up by the WW2 pilot who was flying the Thunderbolt at the time!)

And the true story of the RAF ground crewman, meeting the first P-47 to land at his airfield, asking the pilot "Where are the other crew?". He assumed that an aircraft so extravagantly large must be holding more than one aircrew!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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carguy_
11-30-2006, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by RichardFF:
huh? I think of the gunsight in the cockpit... how does that get shot out but not you? Luck?


Right.Luck,sometimes.Play some in arcade mode.You`ll see ceter hit and shrapnel bursting in all directions.If you get hit in the wingroot by a HE/MG shell,you can be injured by shrapnel or your instruments might die.

German weapon shells are famous for this.Especially against the P47.You don`t kill that plane by cutting something off,you have a better chance of scoring lethal hits on the pilot.

In the P47,you don`t really know the right moment to bail.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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RichardFF
12-01-2006, 04:49 PM
Decided to play for real and had my gunsight shot out many times driving an F4F not to mention the bullets holes all around me in the glass yet no injury.

Surely in real life this is not the norm is it? What about all the shrapnel and ricochets?

Anyway, I am having a tough time and have learned I have the skills of a commuter pilot http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I was surprised how hard it is to shoot down a plane and how very limited the ammo is. Maybe it's not just me but it sure sounds like taking down a plane is not a big deal around here...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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knightflyte
12-02-2006, 02:34 PM
Most folks are very experienced here. They have worked out a gun convergance that works for them and fly/shoot accordingly.

Record your tracks and watch them. Notice WHEN you fire and WHERE the bullits hit or miss. Make adjustments to your timing accordingly. It's time consuming in that you don't get instant gratification, but after a while you'll see your marksmenship improve.

For example if you shoot at an enemy plane from .1km away, but have your convergance set to .300 then you arent getting the full impact of your ammo.

Also look for how you are tracking the enemy, your angle of attack, and how much you lead the opposing craft. Am I not leading him enough thus wasting my ammo as it is always harmlessly behind him?


Anotherthing is to really find a joystick setting that's comfortable for you.

Download IL2Sticks. It's a great piece of software that VERY VERY easily allows you to adjust all your axis. There's another but I can't recall the name. IL2Joy I think. Both are GREAT!

Tuning these axis properties will help smooth your inputs so you don't get jerky while trying to follow and shoot an enemy.

And the most important advise. Don't get discouraged.

RichardFF
12-03-2006, 08:17 PM
Thanks!<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Xiolablu3
12-04-2006, 01:52 AM
P47 is amazing once you are a competent pilot, but it unforgiving for new guys whos natural instinct is to TnB in a Spitfire or a Zero.

FW190/P47/P51/Tempest all require a different type of airfighting called 'Energy Fighting'.

Using height/speed/energy agaisnt your opponet to make attacks and then zoom away.

This is a much safer way to fight too, once you learn.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VW-IceFire
01-24-2007, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by RichardFF:
While fast on the straight and narrow it manuevers like a bomber and has so much nose you can't see your target. Just figuring out how to aim this thing is a challenge!

Or is it just me...
Its not the easiest plane to fight in. Its a relatively easy plane to fly but when it comes to fighting you need to use tactics and wingmen to get the best results. When you do this...the P-47 goes from average to excellent. There are a long line of advantages with the P-47:

- heavy firepower
- excellent top speed, particularly at high altitude where it is almost unmatched
- gentle stall for its size
- extreme durability of structure

The only real downsides are its climb rate which is average and its turn which varies from excellent to poor depending on altitude and speed. It does really well in high speed turns.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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