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Gadje
03-01-2005, 04:23 AM
The man is getting a bit pi**ed http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=cfs3;action=display;num=1103228895; start=150

He starts at the bottom of the page.

I'm taking some popcorn and heading over to watch the action. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gadje
03-01-2005, 04:23 AM
The man is getting a bit pi**ed http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=cfs3;action=display;num=1103228895; start=150

He starts at the bottom of the page.

I'm taking some popcorn and heading over to watch the action. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Feathered_IV
03-01-2005, 04:34 AM
Glad to see Oleg put that ****** in his place.

steve_v
03-01-2005, 04:40 AM
hehe

Billy_BigBoy
03-01-2005, 04:45 AM
I rest my case.

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 04:56 AM
Bear over at AvSims comes off a little gruff most times

He's actually a good guy who listens to reason http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


The interesting thing about all this over at AvSims, is, unless my memory is failing, that Oleg is an Aeronuatical Engineer who knows precisely what he is talking about...and also a WWII aviation buff with an amazing memory for detail

Howie A
03-01-2005, 04:58 AM
Below are a few of Oleg's quotes I thought especially interesting.


Also especialy for these that has more power PC we soon will release the FM that take more processor time for calculations. I would say it will be pre-BoB FM (for all around the world testing in the current sim series. Currently it is in test by more than 40 pilots and some of them fly WWII aircraft now... Of course there will be not all that user will see finally in BoB). In BoB - more complex computations and more features of the gameplay than in the whole Il-2 series.

Ground handling in IL-2 is also better than in CFS physics for that case. We just were comparing here yersterday. And ground handling is changed together with new FM modules that we will releasehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Would be very good to compare...

Really I like that we have competition, because at least such thing press me to go ahead and increase the quality and precise in the next sim series that will be based on BoB engine - first release is BoB, then we will go around the whole WWII again. BoB will be just the first in the line of series.
There we will deliver more features to third party developers, however we will still keep precise FM programming for ourselves. And mainly because of one important thing: to escape the cheating online.

The is one area where I don't plan any competition - it is civil aircraft simulation. There are MS stand alone and this is not for me... However in BoB will be bonuses - the planes sertified by real avation companies and pilots that fly it now. These planes are modern. So you will be able to ask the real pilot who fly it now youself... This will be a sample what we are program and you make you own opinion how is precise the FM tunings for the other WWII time aircraft of BoB that will be present there. Clever users will understand what we offer and did really very quick.

ImpStarDuece
03-01-2005, 04:58 AM
Oleg goes to town! LoL. He dishes it out left and right. Yeeehaaaa!

Recon_609IAP
03-01-2005, 05:13 AM
Some questions and statements are left open-ended - in particular the items that were left out of the addon, and aircraft that are only available to Russia. Be honest, there was a let down after PF - both for 1C in the lack of sales, and for the customer who will get a partial addon with missing aircraft.

And although there is much talk of FM , I still find aircraft such as p38 that need work.

All that aside, Il2 series is definitely far superior than any other gaming flight combat sim on the market, and Bear was quite rude. I suspect this is because of the lack of open architecture from his perspective where he is critical because I suspect he would like to build models for IL2 but cannot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I've noticed one thing in life for sure: there are always those around that want to make the guy on top look bad - obviously Oleg is the man to be reckoned with until someone comes along and creates a better flight sim http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I do think that people need to realize that 1C needs to move on - even if PF is 'not complete', because although the wait is hard, the efforts toward BoB will be worth waiting for and realizing that Oleg is moving us to the next generation flight sim. More importantly will be that as a community we will need to make sure what happened with PF does not happen with BoB: 1C will need our support, ie. no copying games, etc... Many times Oleg has questioned why he makes flight sims when he could make more money in different field, and that would be the saddest thing to see.

Jasko76
03-01-2005, 05:14 AM
I think Oleg was too kind to that moron AvHistory! I would have said a few more things. But well done, nonetheless. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Having read Oleg's comments, my mouth watered. Now I just can't wait for the patch!

Go Oleg, Go! I'm with you 110%!

Monson74
03-01-2005, 05:15 AM
Wow! He says we will go all around WWII again with the new engine! I guess that means loads of addons for years to come http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

& I guess it means upgrading twice while BoB is in buisness http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Nubarus
03-01-2005, 05:16 AM
I have had the occasional run in with Bear from Avhistory and his high horse BS when it comes to CFS3.

He was even defending the "feature" in CFS3 that all guns do damage to fortified concrete bunkers and are pretty easy to collapse them and destroying a Jagd Tiger with .50 and 20mm combo in 2 passes.

According to his supreme knowledge HMG and Light cannon rounds can destroy a Jagd Tiger when hit in the right spot at the right angle. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Even later when I posted some screenshots of blowing up a Jagd Tiger while comming in low and attacking his front he (and a few of his friends) accused me of cheating because I would need more ammo then the plane could carry because even the best gunners only hit 5% of their total rounds fired.

Well, I beg the differ after completing 3 IL2 campaigns and I have my Squad mates to confirm my overall gunnery skills and especially my ground attack skills.

But at that time the CFS3 forum mods stepped in and I got a warning while Bear and his friends got a pat on the back on "proving" I was a cheater.

The only proof I saw was his arrogance.

B16Enk
03-01-2005, 05:21 AM
Hehe MKII.

Some interesting info there, I liked the bit about BoB being the beginning:

'first release is BoB, then we will go around the whole WWII again. BoB will be just the first in the line of series. '

And does this mean what I think it does:

' The is one area where I don't plan any competition - it is civil aircraft simulation. There are MS stand alone and this is not for me... However in BoB will be bonuses - the planes sertified by real avation companies and pilots that fly it now. These planes are modern. So you will be able to ask the real pilot who fly it now youself... This will be a sample what we are program and you make you own opinion how is precise the FM tunings for the other WWII time aircraft of BoB that will be present there. Clever users will understand what we offer and did really very quick. '

Oleg has fed us some more scraps methinks. Intrigued as to what these [civilian?] bonuses are...

Time to start specifying my next rig http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-01-2005, 05:56 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif EEEEkkK what is Wrong with the clouds Bear posted in that Panther shot (page 10) with the clouds...

Bear Clouds ~~> http://www.avhistory.org/bear257Images/pant.jpg

Compare the two clouds in the middle of the screenshot -- one higher then the other in the picture. Also the small cloud at lower right, more distant but below the horizon. WHAT? You can't use any personal cloud watching experience to tell which clouds are closer or farther in that sim. These clouds are all mixed up...I can only guess that these "cumulus" clouds in 3SCF have cloud base at wildly different altitudes when they should have the same base altitude. Is this true about 3FSC or am I looking at the screenshot wrongly?

Gives a new appreciation for Classical FB Clouds, just wish they were MUCH larger -- and not static Fixed on the maps.

Also, the Panther looks like a cartoon? Yes? No? Am I imagining this?

Tvrdi
03-01-2005, 06:00 AM
hehe go Oleg go teach those suckers a lesson http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif it was a pleasure to visit their forum and read ur posts....btw u got ur enthusiasm and big community behind u and what they got? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

WWSensei
03-01-2005, 06:08 AM
I've had my discussions with Bear. 1% yes, of what he considers a valid source. they tend to rely singly upon NACA charts and then disgard the ones when it doesn't fit their preconception.

Their beef with Oleg is not so much FM modelling accuracy, but mainly because in Oleg's world they aren't needed and worshipped. In the CFS world the original FMs are so bad that the 1% FMs can't help but be better. They get to be heroes in that world where they don't here. That's their real beef.

You think people overly worship Oleg? Go and show the 1% people and their acolytes where they've made a mistake. I was crucified on their forums for pointing out a typo in a .air file (it was an aircraft with a stall speed of 18 mph instead of 81 mph. Simple typo) and you would sworn I had insulted every religious diety since the dawn of time. Ended up getting banned. Mighty big chips on their shoulders and they can't stand the thought of not being worshipped as FM gods or if any so much as looks at the chips on their shoulders.

All that being said there 1% files are better than stock, but then again it doesn't many flowers to make a pile of **** smell better.

Lucius_Esox
03-01-2005, 06:11 AM
All I can say is that it shows how much Oleg "cares". Good grief, I havent seen anything like this sort of thing before, ever! And some people on this forum moan about him,,,,,,, pah!!

Yes I am a fan... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BSS_Goat
03-01-2005, 06:26 AM
I wonder if Bill ever stops by their forumn? hmmmmm

JG54_Arnie
03-01-2005, 06:26 AM
Gee, does CFS3 really look that crappy? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

*runs off and loads IL2 again.*

Bearcat99
03-01-2005, 07:08 AM
Denial is NOT just a river in Egypt.

Aero_Shodanjo
03-01-2005, 07:31 AM
I like this part:

" PS. Look for I-185 model in FB+AEP+PF. Then just imagine how will looks all BoB models. I-185 was a test for the new technologies. It is still the same amount of polygons as in Il-2 series... But looks very good inside and ourtside. Now imagine that twe increase polygon count, sizes of textures and then we anyway will keep all the features of skin , squad logos, pilot faces, etc transfer online between the players. Such good technology I think don't have even most shooters... and we were peoneers in that thing many years ago.
And think about damage model. In Il-2 series we model just part of internal structure (but really great, that has no competitors in the sims!) - in BoB engine we simply use real manufacture blueprints that to recreate in 3D and in physics the full internal construction of aircraft. Such modeling we will use for the structural damage modeling with cmputation of the forces on almost each longeron or other details (sorry not enough English words that to tell it exactly) "

and this:

" PS2. Yes some ground models are better in CFS3 than in original IL-2 of 2001 year release... But you can't unit CFS+CFS2+CFS3 as the full one product isn't it?"

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tsisqua
03-01-2005, 07:47 AM
Hey!!!

Someone ripped off my patented http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gifWelcome To The Madnesshttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif greeting! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

LOL, JK. It was the only respectful post over there, and I am glad that at least one of these guys was nice to Oleg.

Berry,
You are correct, they are indeed in denial, and I hope that they do not drown. When 3.05 is released, that other Bear guy will have a very red face.

p1ngu666
03-01-2005, 08:03 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

LeadSpitter_
03-01-2005, 08:05 AM
bear of avhistory is correct in what he said, the 1% team collect the best data charts from all countries records departments and do show the users the data used, also its not one mans say in what he thinks is realistic or not its a teams descision all data used which is the proof in the pudding, as you know many charts are slightly different for the same ac tests instead of taking all the best charts they have many which they round off to get the most honest results.

oleg has many valid points too. Both games have some things better then others. And chris hatfield does speak to the community now and then but oleg does alot more and hes lets us make photo manipulations of him and luthier without banning us http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

to be honest this is the first time i ever seen oleg say somethings are not done well in ilfb series. So all the germans who say russians are to proud to admit they are wrong should flush that idea down the toliet.

So with him saying that makes us aware that he knows of the issues and will be working on those areas in the future bob most likely.

I really would like to know if bob is going to use the same synth sound engine we have here which the entire community seem to all agree on is downright horrible except oleg. Another thing is small square maps, ai only need to be a thing of the past only finished flyables no ai only that should have died out in the 80s. Ai aircraft also should not be be able to perform manuevers humans cant, ai needs to be models after bots similiar to quake3 which were modeled to use the manuvers after the top players. I have to admit ai in fb is so horrible now glitching flying like they got terrets syndrome tails glitchen, flopping over and heading the other way to me ai should be modeled after the top human players, this would find many exploits early as well. NDA ubi needs to shytcan it, ubi is purely responsible for taking away the modelers development community from us, has took away missions being cached and transfered which we can use simply to sell 3rd party skins and missions packs for such small profits and took so much away from the community.

The most important thing for me personally is olegs attention to stop cheating which no other game company does NONE pb is a joke and cheats are made specifically to pass it the day PB is updated in every first person shooter. This was one of the most fustrating things in cfs1 2 and 3 as well as every other flightsim i owned since the early 80s. Cfs specifically does a very poor job of stopping cheats and makes no attempts at stopping them. The community makes air dp cfg checkers but still ways of getting around them and people do it.

another thing is a game engine that allows map mesh creation and user plane addons builds a better community and not just whiners and complainers about the game. It also gives the game alot longer playlife and continues to be interesting.

there has to be some way of having a closed source of stock planes and having another section written in code differently for addons fm data gundata etc which doesnt let addon people know the original in gamecode.

For me personally I flown il2 series almost eveyday since sturmovik taking some months off but im always back here even when i think im done with the game and move on to different ones. To be honest i flown every map 1000s of times and all planes hundreds of hours and no matter what the missions coop dogfight generated etc all have the same feel and gets tiresome. the same bland terrain with low visability distance theres no new places and scenery to see which makes things get boring.

I enjoy both sims equally and to me real engine and gunsounds just add so much to a flight sim and enviormental sounds which are not really realistic but add a feel of immersion.

Im not really psyched about bob Im going to buy it reguardless to support oleg becuase combat flight sims do not make alot of money, but going from this many ac to such a small limited ammount is going to get boring for me very quickly. I think a better idea would have been incorporating all these existing models into a new game engine and update the models a little at a time as well as adding in more theaters.

BOB, battle of poland, battle of france, the med, china, australia, dutch etc.

DVDs and double sided dvds are always an option rather then many regular cds. Also having such a large filesize game would eliminate alot of pirating which killed PF completely.

I personally think 1c and codemasters should have made a big moneymaker game such as wartime command as a bf1942 cod brother in arms, novalogic joint operations style of game like wwiiol, to make alot of money then are not pressured so much about the ubi heads worring so much about profit becuase the wwii flightsim community is very small but the most dedicated out there.

with BOB models cockpits and ground items will look better but also run much worse, so i dunno if bob is going to use the same synth sound engine we have now, will bobs visability range be shorter then we have now becuase of higher poly ground items as well as aircraft models, having all those wing spars modeled is it going to effect models badly in the distance seeing and close range having the spars glitch thru the wings, are we going to the same small square maps...

Best bet would be getting the avhistory team to work together with oleg for bob, theres nothing bad that could come out of that and we would all benefit from that in BOB.

-HH-Quazi
03-01-2005, 08:29 AM
Just the fact that the developer/creator of our beloved FB/AEP/PF takes the time to listen and communicate with us is enough for me to stay true to IL2. And the fact that he is protecting the FM source code guarantees me that if I get shot down in a df, that it was because the other pilot was better and not that he had an uber plane, or visa-versa with me being on the winning end. I am glad Oleg takes the time to set things straight in other forums that are dedicated to bashing the IL2 series. It shows he has passion for what he does and creates. Thanks Oleg!

Sharpe26
03-01-2005, 08:30 AM
that avhistory guy has answered. Interesting.

RedNeckerson
03-01-2005, 09:04 AM
Good for you Oleg.

I love it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

crazyivan1970
03-01-2005, 09:20 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

KGr.HH-Sunburst
03-01-2005, 09:28 AM
Oleg has spoken http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

GT182
03-01-2005, 09:49 AM
You tell em Oleg. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I quit going to SimAv a long time ago, they are a bit on the arrogant side. Some of us here can be the same when it comes to FB/AEP/PF. But we all love what we love I guess. There's no way CFS3 can come close to what Oleg's doing for us, and it'll only get better as time goes by. We know the truth, SimAv only thinks they do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Heck, MS can't even do upgrades for CFS3, the FS series, and even cancelled CFS4. Now that tells you something about what they think of their own products. They don't care. They just let 3rd party mods correct all their mistakes. LOL

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by BSS_Goat
I wonder if Bill ever stops by their forumn? hmmmmm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL I rather doubt it. Would you if you were him? I think Bill looks at what Oleg is doing and cries. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

AlmightyTallest
03-01-2005, 10:10 AM
Wow.. Good to see a man who takes pride in his work. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Seeing Oleg laying the smackdown on them is pretty funny I have to admit lol.

BelaLvgosi
03-01-2005, 10:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> 109s? Sorry, but the tests of 109s real and modelled is way more colse to reality then you even thing.... One was posting WWII time trial for the turn on the 6,000 meters with input in turnm speed 600 km/h.... He was impressed when he got less then 2% differences in the sim. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Oleg_Maddox
03-01-2005, 10:41 AM
Guys, I was need to answer him once more...
It issem he is the guy for ewhich is most important to have the last word and to be alwasy right, when even he (himself) uderstand that it isn't....

That was there the last my post.

crazyivan1970
03-01-2005, 10:49 AM
http://www.coachron.com/galleries/boxing/12.jpg

BelaLvgosi
03-01-2005, 10:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Oleg_Maddox:
Guys, I was need to answer him once more...
It issem he is the guy for ewhich is most important to have the last word and to be alwasy right, when even he (himself) uderstand that it isn't....

That was there the last my post. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Heh, kudos for replying to someone that was just flamming, but still, you defend your sim and clear doubts about what was presented.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>ie the 109 flys WAY to easy even at high speeds (400+mph) without control lock up, just one example. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's funny to see the Oleg's room where the 109 elevator "issue" at 6000m has been debated to death (with a very long thread still going on discussing those charts) and still someone does a comment like this.

ps: Thanks for the info about the (even if remote) possibility of new FM in a future patch http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

StellarRat
03-01-2005, 11:07 AM
I hope you guys noticed that we won't be getting torpedo bombers because of the license fees that Northrop wants. Please write to your Congressmen and let them know that this is a total rip-off and discourages young people from learning the history of flying and WW II through sims and modal kits. One little rider on a defense bill is all it will take to fix this problem, be sure.

Capt._Tenneal
03-01-2005, 11:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:

oleg has many valid points too. Both games have some things better then others. And chris hatfield does speak to the community now and then but oleg does alot more and hes lets us make photo manipulations of him and luthier without banning us http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

to be honest this is the first time i ever seen oleg say somethings are not done well in ilfb series. So all the germans who say russians are to proud to admit they are wrong should flush that idea down the toliet.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Has Oleg been this open and honest in ORR. Why does it take a CFS3 forum to bring this out. It's alright, Oleg, you can be open about what you feel are the shortcomings of PF or FB+AEP. We know everything is not all roses, we appreciate an honest assesment of where things stand.

crazyivan1970
03-01-2005, 11:25 AM
Capt, was all that really new to you? This was said about 100 times in the different topics in ORR.

GT182
03-01-2005, 12:07 PM
Oleg, let them say what they want... you can't stop their derogitory remarks no matter what you say or do.

Just know that most all of us stand by you and 1C in what you do and are doing for the flightsim community, today and in the future. Kudos to you all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

My only regret is we can't shake your hand. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

reverendkrv1972
03-01-2005, 12:12 PM
I havent read the other forum yet(not enough time,food ready soon)but,when i used to fly cfs2 I flew almost exclusively 1% aircraft and supported what they were doing.
but its as people say here (over and over)having an open programme leads to cheating n tweaked weapons/FM's.
but the severe lack of support by M****S**T(apoligies)leads to the community having to fix the game themselves...

I support everything Oleg had done,and is doing,and im looking forward to BOB with baited breath(tho my PC cringes when it thinks about running it)

my hats off to OM,he the man.

LeadSpitter_
03-01-2005, 12:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt._Tenneal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LeadSpitter_:

oleg has many valid points too. Both games have some things better then others. And chris hatfield does speak to the community now and then but oleg does alot more and hes lets us make photo manipulations of him and luthier without banning us http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

to be honest this is the first time i ever seen oleg say somethings are not done well in ilfb series. So all the germans who say russians are to proud to admit they are wrong should flush that idea down the toliet.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Has Oleg been this open and honest in ORR. Why does it take a CFS3 forum to bring this out. It's alright, Oleg, you can be open about what you feel are the shortcomings of PF or FB+AEP. We know everything is not all roses, we appreciate an honest assesment of where things stand. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

problem is when he replies to someone in orr the whole community asks different topics directed to him in that thread and everyone expects him to answer back which he dont seem to have the time for probally, I dunno its just good to see oleg posting again I respect bear alot over at avhistory and respect oleg as well but like every person in every single flightsim evermade we all have different opinions on realism and what makes a game realistic or fms.


aces over russia
aces over europe
aces over the pacific
airwarrior series
EAW
aceshigh
cfs1 2 3
warbirds I II III 2000
janes wwii fighters
janes attack squad
fighterace
wwiiol
and many others..

their forums are all the same arguements pretty much we have here and alot are the same people.

Even today browsing those old game forums you find alot of good sourced datacharts and pilotsmanuals and other good videos etc.

Im suprised bear actually said its to easy to go into a stall in this game, I find it the complete opposite, theres no more flatspins, nose over difficult to recover stalls which took 500-1500m to recover from and is what made me enjoy sturmovik over cfs2/cfs3 and what got me here.



I was happy to see a sim that had difficult to recover stalls, and ac that went into flat spins taking some time to recover from with a huge E penalty for putting an aircraft over its edge like we had in sturmovik, something we dont have at all now anymore except slightly in the corsair p51 and ki84.

right now the onlyway to get stuck in a flatspin is when ruddercables are shot off and is unrecoverable.

Now we can do any fishflopping ufo fakest manuevers stick yanking in all directions with almost no E bleed in many ac and when a flopping stall occurs, not just a wingdip its so easy to recover in 5-10m alt with hardly any E penalty.

DRB_Hookech0
03-01-2005, 01:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recon_609IAP:
Be honest, there was a let down after PF - both for 1C in the lack of sales, and for the customer who will get a partial addon with missing aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was not sold as a ****ed addon. It was sold as a STANDALONE SIMULATION, as was marketed as such. Heck, I didnt even know you could merge the install with FB+AEP until the install screen came up.

I mean why even call it a standalone when it is a halfbaked expansion to FB? Why include Pearl Harbor if there is not even an attemp to have anything remotely resembling a US battlewagon. Did you really think we would not notice they are BRITISH BB's? Nor have the ability to attack them other than with a Val carring a paperweight? Why include a early to mid war plane set if we lack the maps to conduct 23 freaking months of combat operations with the planes in said planeset?

Oh and it's somehow our fault that the legal team at Ubi screwed the pooch and got into a TRADEMARK fight with Grumman/Northrop? You mentioned slumping sales for PF....well after word got out that it was a joke as far as content....no wonder.

Oh and after reading that thread over there, now we get to look forward to a FM that will make an already intensive CPU hog of a game even more demanding on the CPU, that it might just be un-playable? Gee thanks.

Col_Tibbetts
03-01-2005, 02:18 PM
The saddest thing is this...

Oleg_Maddox wrote on the Simviation Forum...

US torpedo bombers there wll be no of them already.
Japanese - Yes. In time

If you don't know why there will be no some of american planes - then ask someone who knows this well... It is the same story that happens with some model kit companies for the last time - they will never produce some american planes, ships, ets... because they can't pay the license that was requested from them.

I never truly believed it until I now see it from the man himself.

Its so sad. I really wanted a flyable Avenger. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

:weeping:

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-01-2005, 02:24 PM
Oleg shouldn't lower himself to do that. Altough it must be hard for him, people picking on HIS product about subjects they are clearly totally wrong about.

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-01-2005, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
http://www.coachron.com/galleries/boxing/12.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since were talking about Prince...whatever happened to him. Oh wait I remember!!

Marco Antonio Barrera happened! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.marcobarrera.com/images/hppic3.jpg

BTW Im a HUGE boxing fan...couldnt help myself. Sorry Ivan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-01-2005, 02:32 PM
Oleg-
"Really I like that we have competition, because at least such thing press me to go ahead and increase the quality and precise in the next sim series that will be based on BoB engine - first release is BoB, then we will go around the whole WWII again. BoB will be just the first in the line of series."

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

LEXX_Luthor
03-01-2005, 02:42 PM
Oleg::<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
US torpedo bombers there wll be no of them already.
Japanese - <span class="ev_code_yellow">Yes. In time</span>
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I hope that is the Flyable B6N that Zneg is working over the PF. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Capt._Tenneal
03-01-2005, 02:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
http://www.coachron.com/galleries/boxing/12.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since were talking about Prince...whatever happened to him. Oh wait I remember!!

Marco Antonio Barrera happened! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.marcobarrera.com/images/hppic3.jpg

BTW Im a HUGE boxing fan...couldnt help myself. Sorry Ivan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But HaVok, Manny Pacquiao happened to Marco Antonio Barrera too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 02:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DRB_Hookech0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recon_609IAP:
Be honest, there was a let down after PF - both for 1C in the lack of sales, and for the customer who will get a partial addon with missing aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was not sold as a ****ed addon. It was sold as a STANDALONE SIMULATION, as was marketed as such. Heck, I didnt even know you could merge the install with FB+AEP until the install screen came up.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because you didn't know....that means you are right?

I am sorry, but on this point you are incorrect- there was a question asked here, a long time ago, about how PF should be marketed- as a stand-alone, or as an add-on. By...Oleg and the Dev team

If you don't know this, then I am sorry that you are mis-informed or poorly informed, but the sim was never intended to be stand-alone only. Never.

It was initially conceived as an add-on. Maybe you just don't know this, maybe you missed the news. But based partially on feedback from the community, it was changed to stand-alone and add-on.

I am sorry, but you are mistaken

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-01-2005, 02:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Capt._Tenneal:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
http://www.coachron.com/galleries/boxing/12.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since were talking about Prince...whatever happened to him. Oh wait I remember!!

Marco Antonio Barrera happened! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.marcobarrera.com/images/hppic3.jpg

BTW Im a HUGE boxing fan...couldnt help myself. Sorry Ivan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

But HaVok, Manny Pacquiao happened to Marco Antonio Barrera too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are correct sir!! I dont claim to be a HUGE Barrera fan but anybody who loves boxing has to love to see him fight. Prince was a bum that got his record fighting bums. He has a few notible fights. Manny gave Barrera the beating of his life for sure. But what does a real fighter do after a defeat like that? He goes out and gets one of the tuffest fights to made. The rematch against Erik Morales. Who he beat convincingly to take 2 outa 3.

On that note what does Morales do after such a devastating loss and crush to his ego. Thats right! He went out and got the tuffest fight he could find. Erik Morales vs. Manny Pacquiao. HBO PPV Saturday, March 19th LIVE 9:00PM ET/6:00PM PT

What a treat for boxing fans.

Sorry for the thread hijacking fellas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-01-2005, 02:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Platypus_1.JaVA:
Oleg shouldn't lower himself to do that. Altough it must be hard for him, people picking on HIS product about subjects they are clearly totally wrong about. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im very glad he did it. And I wish he would do it more often over here in these very forums. Nobody can silence a whiner and socalled expert better then the man...be sure.

Tooz_69GIAP
03-01-2005, 03:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DRB_Hookech0:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Recon_609IAP:
Be honest, there was a let down after PF - both for 1C in the lack of sales, and for the customer who will get a partial addon with missing aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was not sold as a ****ed addon. It was sold as a STANDALONE SIMULATION, as was marketed as such. Heck, I didnt even know you could merge the install with FB+AEP until the install screen came up.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just because you didn't know....that means you are right?

I am sorry, but on this point you are incorrect- there was a question asked here, a long time ago, about how PF should be marketed- as a stand-alone, or as an add-on. By...Oleg and the Dev team

If you don't know this, then I am sorry that you are mis-informed or poorly informed, but the sim was never intended to be stand-alone only. Never.

It was initially conceived as an add-on. Maybe you just don't know this, maybe you missed the news. But based partially on feedback from the community, it was changed to stand-alone _and_ add-on.

I am sorry, but you are mistaken <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I seem to remember it the other way around!! Perhaps I am mistaken, but wasn't there a MASSIVE uproar (near riotous as I recall!!) when it was announced PF would be stand-alone only. It was only after many weeks of absolute disbelief, and outrage from the community that it was announced PF would be able to installed on top of FB/AEP.

So, PF was supposed to be a stand alone simulation, all by it's lonesome, and I am sorry to say, as a stand alone, it kinda sucks!!

To all you stand alone guys.....buy the gold pack coz it'll be way more fun.

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 03:05 PM
Can't says that's the way I remember...

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 03:07 PM
You know what? I think I owe you an apology, DRB_Hookech0



http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=902109023

Snow_Wolf_
03-01-2005, 03:12 PM
US torpedo bombers there wll be no of them already.
Japanese - Yes. In time


lol how come i got a funny feeling when Oleg said we going get a Japanese torpedo plane it going be a betty (since it can carry a torpedo) anyways intresting debate there

CaptainGelo
03-01-2005, 03:16 PM
Il2 and all expansions are best WW2 fly sims ever, end of story http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

DRB_Hookech0
03-01-2005, 03:39 PM
Chuck, thats ok. Really your one of the more stable guys here.

It's just that I cant accept the "buy the AEP and merge the install" line because what does flying over the crimera have to do with flying in the PTO...nothing. Sure it can make for some strange games in the DF rooms on HL but thats not what I fly this sim for. I fly with my Squadies in COOPs trying to be as historical (I use that term loosly in PF) as we can. I have all the IL2 series. 99% of my squad can over to PF from CFS3 (after much lobbying on my part) and we find the mess that is PF.

If you like to fly in the DF rooms....yes the whole shebang is wonderful. If you want to attempt to build a historical campaign for use in Weekly missions, this thing is a disaster. Who ever picked the maps for PF had Zero idea of the combat operations in the South Pacific where most of the fighting took place. I am not asking for one map from Guadalcannal up to Rabual, I understand that would not work in the engine. But dont try to convine me that they could not go from Guadalcannal to Bouganville and other steps like that. They dotn need massive road networks or bridges because other than native tracks and trails there were none. Both the Japanese and the US (usually after taking it from the Japanese) just carved airfields out of the jungle and didnt go beyond the perimeter. Remember that this area held some of the most horrificaly hostile environments known to man at the time (hell still does to an extent). To exclude 23 months of combat (some of the heaviest Air action of the war) between the carrier battles of Santa Cruz and the Battle of the Phillipean Sea is un-excusable for a combat flight sim depicting air combat in the PTO.

I have always maintained in several threads here, that I can live without flying the betty, Kate, TBF/M and can understand some of the ship MIA's but the map selection is infuriating. As far as ships goes, it would have been nice to see 1 early and 1 late BB for both USN and IJN forces, and maybe 1 or 2 IJN heavy criusers. That would cover just about everything you would need from a mission building standpoint. But again, having a completlly usless Pearl Harbor map, while nice to look at, is a moot point, you cant do anything with it.

Yes i am bent about some of this stuff.

Also for Oleg or others to try to blame a Company for defending their legal trademark instead of aiming both barrels at Ubi's legal department for this Charlie Foxtrot with Grumman is pretty weak if you ask me. I have had do the same thing the past couple of years with my painted miniatures and the images being used (without permission) to sell products. if asked I usually give permission, but to just up and use them with nothing being asked, I have to get legal. It's the modern age we live in.

Anyway...Ive vented my spleen here....sorry Chuck if I got some on your shoes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 03:47 PM
My shoes?

I flat out told you you didn't know what you were talking about, and I was wrong.

Don't worry about my shoes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Sorry about that- I can admit when I'm a jack@ss

LEXX_Luthor
03-01-2005, 03:49 PM
I finally read some earlier pages, I am... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif ...Impressed.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
I was constantly pissed off to find myself in a spin after trying to follow an aircraft into a turn or a climb that any CFS aircraft would have handled. <span class="ev_code_yellow">And thats the 1% planes as well as stock.</span>
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
But you must stall first before the spin... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

So why does a "pro 3SFC simmer" stall?? No Comment on that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Real life WW2 fighter pilots offer many accounts of them or their enemy stalling and possibly falling out of control as they Desperately tried to match a turn or climb of another fighter.

I never stall and then enter spin in any FB plane unless I want to. The most important reason for me never stalling any FB plane is my becoming familiar with when my plane is near stall at any point in the flight envelope -- I guess I read too many real life WW2 pilot stories so I fly like them---very carefully. The easily detected stall warnings on at least most FB/PF planes help also in preventing stalls and of course then spins. Of course, while learning this, I do stall, but that is the learning process. Another possible reason is I use a 20$ WalMarts joystick (Saitek Graphite) that has a whopping 6 inch top stick movement side-side and front-back (all the uber 50$+ sticks have like 3 inch movement and I tried their feel in the computer stores, and went with WalMarts' 20$ Saitek).

Exception:: I do stall sometimes on botched carrier landings just before the deck, and if a spin develops or not makes no difference to the result of smashing the rear end of the ship.

The key to understanding the Quote above may be the <span class="ev_code_yellow">"as well as stock"</span> offering -- I thought that was a creepy comparison. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Maybe they are just too rough handling their joystick, or have joysticks at too high sensitivity settings, or assume their plane must always be able to match turn and climb of their enemy? Maybe they are fellow simmers simply in desperate need of friendly help. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Dolemite-
03-01-2005, 05:01 PM
Acorrding to the CFS guys, stall and spins arent supposed to happen....ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Chuck_Older
03-01-2005, 05:10 PM
Welllll...CFS3 does have some 3rd party stuff that is really good. And AvHistory (Bear) does know a thing or three. His approach to these things is something he stands behind, and that's the way he should act, otherwise he wouldn't be sincere about it. I think his approach is slightly misguided, but that's one man's opinion

The Il-2 franchise does miss on some stall characteristics. But in the area of the flight envelope at which we are flying these aircraft...like Oleg says, there is a compromise here. the stall traits in FB suit the manner in which the planes are flown a lot of times. Sure I want better stall characteristics, but a choice was made, for whatever reason, right or wrong, to make a compromise in that area.

What the Il-2 franchise misses in stall it makes up for in so many other areas. CFS3 can be 'modded'...some folks like that. But no matter what, CFS3 doesn't support the things we have with FB/PF- like you can make a mission, with period correct aircraft skins, aircraft, and in many cases, at least semi-accurate maps, that CFS3 will never, ever, ever be able to duplicate. I can change from Urban Drew's "Detroit Miss" P-51D skin to Thomas Christian's "Lou IV" in seconds, without leaving FB.

CFS3? Never. Repeat, NEVER will be able to do that, for any skin.

The campaign I just made? CFS3 cannot ever ever ever allow me to do that, ever

I made my choice to stick with FB based on the sensation of flight it generates which I feel is pretty d@mn good, and for the mission builder aspect. CFS3 falls a little short on the flight sensation (but is pretty good indeed with certain 3rd party FMs) and utterly fails in mission building

Nubarus
03-01-2005, 05:49 PM
From reading the replies of that AvHistory guy the arrogance just oozed out of the pixels on my LCD screen.

They really should get some help to find their way back to the ground.

Well, at least it explains all the large holes in the ozone layer.
They are created by the inflated ego's of the 1% fellers.

I think it's time to call Greenpeace.

T_O_A_D
03-01-2005, 06:03 PM
That was a fun read. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

heywooood
03-01-2005, 06:40 PM
man - I hate to say it, but some of our best information has come after somebody yanked on Oleg or Ilya (whoever he was) real hard....

Remember when ol' Ilya got chapped about the guy that was nitpicking the rear turret of the PF Avenger?....and we got all those pretty WIP screenies?...

Now - I dont want anyone to get any ideas...

BlakJakOfSpades
03-01-2005, 09:44 PM
nothing like a common enemy to bring us all together http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Longjocks
03-01-2005, 09:59 PM
I may not agree with all that Oleg says, but you have to respect his passion and the fact that he'll take anyone down a peg to defend his work. It's called having nads.

Popey109
03-01-2005, 10:13 PM
Avhistoy seems well informed of the goings on at UBI forums. Whata you think€¦RBJ in drag?...or just a closet FB€er?...dirty little secrets Hehe! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

nearmiss
03-01-2005, 10:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gadje:
The man is getting a bit pi**ed http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=cfs3;action=display;num=1103228895; start=150

He starts at the bottom of the page.

I'm taking some popcorn and heading over to watch the action. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ACTION what action. That guy bear is not the main man at avhistory.

Jerry Beckwith is the guy that is the front-runner on the AVHISTORY 1% stuff.

Bear just roars all over the forums

I'm surprised Oleg would repond to anything duh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif bear has to say at all.

Besides, Oleg has enough to do over on these boards where his responses have some clout and mean something to our members to read.

The CFS3 bunch is so far to the left hanging onto their dog sim, they defend it and keep plowing add-ons to it. I don't care what they do to it, it'll still be a dog because of the core programming.

Tooz_69GIAP
03-01-2005, 10:55 PM
What really gets me, is that the information for just about every point Bear was arguing over in that thread could be found here on the Ubi forums.

From the readme, to why US planes are no more, to the Betty bomber - everything could have been answered by, #1 - me, and #2 - by pretty much anyone else here!!! All he had to do was post a couple of questions.

Man, idiocy like that just makes me wonder sometimes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

knightflyte
03-01-2005, 11:15 PM
Chuck Older said:

I made my choice to stick with FB based on the sensation of flight it generates which I feel is pretty d@mn good, and for the mission builder aspect.

That's hitting the nail on the head. (at least for me anyway) I STILL remember loading up IL2 for the 1st time. Using the hat switch in a BEAUTIFUL BF 109, I looked out of my canopy over my wing. I found my wing man and proceeded to knock a few Il2s out of the sky. WOW I was hooked. I experienced the sensation of flight...at least as far as someone with a computer and an office chair can experience the sensation of flight.

I found IL2 after buying CFSIII. I didn't get that sensation of flight with CFSIII. Well that's kind of an oversimplification, BUT the second I hopped into my BF109 I was immersed in flying. I was suspended between reality and simulated reality. I loved it.

MSCFSIII also ran badly on what was a very highend system for the time. I REALLY wanted to like it too. I can see the effect MS was going for with it's ground textures... but alas it never looked good enough to capture me. The cockpits were ok....but after sitting in an IL2 I was forever spoiled.

Whether stalls were modeled 100% accurately I have NO idea. But I felt there was a challenge that planted me deeper into immersion. Once I got used to them (stalls) I knew what to look for and then was able to incorporate E tactics. I felt there was a penalty for being reckless. MSCFSIII felt like a canned FM. Some have described it as flying by wire.

I'm sure the efforts by the 1% crew have made GREAT strides in the MS product and surely their work should be recognised if not applauded.

Who know's I may grow (GASP!!!) weary enough with IL2 et al. to reinstall MSCFSIII. But I don't feel I am really missing anything.

This is an aside (sort of) Some have mentioned an immersive campaign with MSCFSIII. Can you expand on what you mean? I never experienced any immersiveness. Yes, I think I understand what is meant. (My actions have an effect on the sucess of the war effort....) But I also think some mean it to be the IN BETWEEN missions stuff....and that NEVER enthralled me. Sitting near the aircraft hanger, waiting for your next briefing...oh well. I also had about 15 missions where I had THE EXACT same mission objective. Destroy the Destroyers and Battleships.

I'm glad that both sims are here. I'm also glad that both can be enjoyed by so many.

regards,
Robert

Popey109
03-02-2005, 12:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
What really gets me, is that the information for just about every point Bear was arguing over in that thread could be found here on the Ubi forums.

From the readme, to why US planes are no more, to the Betty bomber - everything could have been answered by, #1 - me, and #2 - by pretty much anyone else here!!! All he had to do was post a couple of questions.

Man, idiocy like that just makes me wonder sometimes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>But why would he take an interest? He€s not in competition with Oleg, there€s no money involved, he seems to think FB+PF has no redeeming quality! (Completely ignoring any question of DM in CFS3) but he was very quick with his information?...I think he locks his doors, pulls the shades and fly€s FB+PF every chance he gets http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Bearcat99
03-02-2005, 09:09 AM
Coke&gt;Pepsi... Dish&gt; Cable...... LMAO

Popey109
03-02-2005, 11:30 AM
Simulator&gt;Xbox Beta€¦LOL Yea! It don€t matter, FB+PF is the best entertainment dollars I€ve ever spent. Congrats to Oleg and team, and everyone here, this place gets a bad rap (UBI forums) but there€s a wealth of good info here.

S 8
03-02-2005, 11:38 AM
I got CFS 1,2,3 and Il2-FB-AEP-PF.
Take a guess which I play/ed most and why is that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
I guess we all know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif