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LEBillfish
01-09-2005, 12:52 AM
First off let me set you all very straight and qualify my statements to come.....I am an expert....at nothing, and know nothing of how real planes fly.

However, common sense tells me that something twice as wide with close to twice the wingspan and 4 times the volume designed to carry load should not be as agile as something the contrary.

I love our HE111, Bf110, A20 & B25....I wish we had all the balance of the 2 engined planes....They really help make this sim.

However, HE111's able to dogfight with Spitfires and B25's able to turn and roll with Ki-61 I have a hard time believing. BF110's and A20's....still doubtful.

Point being, I realize there are certain limitations to ALL planes here as to FM. Standards are set, you try to give them lift, speed, roll, pitch, yaw etc., and if someone tries hard enough they can force the FM to exceed limitations. Yet if possible it would be nice if the Bombers could be dumbed down a bit/made less agile.

Naturally, they could still force out the sim's restrictions.....but would be nice if somehow players (including myself) could be forced to fly them realistically via making them less agile.

Possible?...I have no idea, and frankly would believe without question if 1C said it was not due to the limitations of the flight engine.

But a nice thought.

LEBillfish
01-09-2005, 12:52 AM
First off let me set you all very straight and qualify my statements to come.....I am an expert....at nothing, and know nothing of how real planes fly.

However, common sense tells me that something twice as wide with close to twice the wingspan and 4 times the volume designed to carry load should not be as agile as something the contrary.

I love our HE111, Bf110, A20 & B25....I wish we had all the balance of the 2 engined planes....They really help make this sim.

However, HE111's able to dogfight with Spitfires and B25's able to turn and roll with Ki-61 I have a hard time believing. BF110's and A20's....still doubtful.

Point being, I realize there are certain limitations to ALL planes here as to FM. Standards are set, you try to give them lift, speed, roll, pitch, yaw etc., and if someone tries hard enough they can force the FM to exceed limitations. Yet if possible it would be nice if the Bombers could be dumbed down a bit/made less agile.

Naturally, they could still force out the sim's restrictions.....but would be nice if somehow players (including myself) could be forced to fly them realistically via making them less agile.

Possible?...I have no idea, and frankly would believe without question if 1C said it was not due to the limitations of the flight engine.

But a nice thought.

LEXX_Luthor
01-09-2005, 01:19 AM
Stop playing Microsoft and play FB. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif We don't have that problem with our 2 engine bombers.

ColoradoBBQ
01-09-2005, 02:00 AM
We do have the problem of rolling bombers but that may be realistic. What isn't realistic is 8 P.O.ed flightmates ready to tear you apart are not there when you land.

Extreme_One
01-09-2005, 04:26 AM
I'd love to see a track of your He-111 "dogfighting with Spitfires..."

Atzebrueck
01-09-2005, 05:52 AM
Since when is the 110 a medium bomber ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WOLFMondo
01-09-2005, 05:52 AM
I've seen 2 A20's dogfighting a 190D but then the 190D (me) should never have decided to turn with them at there speedhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. The A20 and certainly the B25 are in no way agile, the A20 can turn relativly well but its very slow in comparison even to a BF110 which I do question sometimes as it was a failure in the BoB but online now they seem on par with P38's performance apart from climb.

LEBillfish
01-09-2005, 07:34 AM
Examples?...ok....

let me make an NTRK as we all know it to be the case....I'll post a limited bandwidth ling to it here later today of a B25 vs Ki-61 (one of the best rollers in the sim) and a HE111 vs a spit.

and I don't classify A20's and BF110's as medium bombers....yet to be able to turn with fighters I highly doubt as well.

Atzebrueck
01-09-2005, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
... BF110 which I do question sometimes as it was a failure in the BoB but online now they seem on par with P38's performance apart from climb. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bf 110 G-2: 2*1475 PS; 38,37 m²:
empty (5094 kg): 133 kg/m² - 1,73 kg/PS
take-off (7300 kg): 190 kg/m² - 2,47 kg/PS
max (9390 kg): 245 kg/m² - 3,18 kg/PS

P-38 J: 2*1425 PS; 30,42 m²:
empty (5797 kg): 191 kg/m² (+44%) - 2,03 kg/PS (+17%)
take-off (7936 kg): 261 kg/m² (+37%) - 2,78 kg/PS (+13%)
max (9798 kg): 322 kg/m² (+31%) - 3,44 kg/PS (+8%)

As you can see the Lightning has a wingloading that is ~37% higher and a powerloading which is ~13% higher than that of the 110. There is no way, it should be able to outturn a 110.

Yet, in game I get a different impression.
I made a short test:
Krim, sealevel, 110% throttle, 100% fuel, 3*360? with constant speed and alt:
Bf 110 G-2 needs ~30 seconds for a 360? turn
P-38 J needs ~24 seconds for a 360? turn


In FB the 110's topspeed, climbrate, turning ability, roll, acceleration, high-alt performance, elevator effectiveness etc. are among the worst of all planes.
In my opinion at least its turnrate and acceleration should be better than they are at the moment.

p1ngu666
01-09-2005, 10:53 AM
b25 has surprisingly sensitive controls, i often stall and spin while trying to corkscrew or dodge attacks..

some may argue that i shouldnt try to dodge, but im british, and british and commenwealth pilots corkscrewed this plane
http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/lanc2.jpg

aprently hard work with 7 tons of bombs on board http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

WOLFMondo
01-09-2005, 11:18 AM
Pilot comments on the Lancaster is that it did handle extremely well and had great manouverability for such a large plane.

MEGILE
01-09-2005, 11:39 AM
Lancaster would be the new uber dogfight plane in FB. Be sure.

Da_Godfatha
01-09-2005, 01:14 PM
I recently saw on Planet (here in Good Old Germany) a docu about the A-20/A-26. In it, the pilots said that both planes flew like fighters after the bombs were dropped. I myself onwhine, have tangled with Fw`s and other fighters and have held my own. As a matter of fact, I have more success with the bombers as with any fighter(execpt the P-40) onwhine. You must remember, these planes have a bite at both ends!

p1ngu666
01-09-2005, 04:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Pilot comments on the Lancaster is that it did handle extremely well and had great manouverability for such a large plane. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep, ive heard it wasnt exciting to fly from a delivery driver, it was pretty much viceless, and on tv program bomber crew the guy who got to fly b17 and lanc, said lanc was like a sports car compaired to b17 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

spitfire, hurri, mossie easy to fly aswell... beafighter, typhoon tempest where harder

hotspace
01-09-2005, 06:48 PM
P1ngu, that's the best Lanc Pic I've seen in awhile http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Hot Space

p1ngu666
01-09-2005, 07:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HotSpace:
P1ngu, that's the best Lanc Pic I've seen in awhile http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Hot Space <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ta, i edited it, it was colour one from www.airliners.net (http://www.airliners.net) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i got some others somewhere that i editedhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lizard_Lipps
01-09-2005, 09:51 PM
When can we have a lancaster? (dream, dream)

I got a book for Christmas with a picture of a
Lancaster with radial engines. Never seen that
before. Anybody know what's up with that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

p1ngu666
01-09-2005, 10:46 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lizard_Lipps:
When can we have a lancaster? (dream, dream)

I got a book for Christmas with a picture of a
Lancaster with radial engines. Never seen that
before. Anybody know what's up with that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yeah they made 200-300 i think of em, has the radial package like on beufighter, some ppl thought they was better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

NORAD_Zooly10
01-10-2005, 03:22 PM
same engine as the Halifax?
~S~
Zooly

p1ngu666
01-10-2005, 10:10 PM
yep, think most halifax's got merlins tho?

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666/lanc3.jpg

u may notice the box under the roundal, thats no box tho... thats a bomb door, and it goes forward 33ft (10metresish)

proper bomb doors.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif for heavier bombs they would be bulged or removed tho... loads like a 12,000lb cookie, a tallboy and a 22,000lb grandslam and bouncing bomb required there removal http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif