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Blutarski2004
04-06-2005, 02:14 PM
Gents,

Go here to read an interesting article on a German 109 pilot and his story -


http://ipmslondon.tripod.com/modelingarticles/id8.html


Hermann Weber (left in the photo above) served in the Luftwaffe's JG 4 for 2 years, flying Bf-109s from Romania, Italy, Belgium, and Germany.

Hermann Weber was a Luftwaffe pilot from 1941 to 1945, ending the war as Gruppen technical officer for I/JG4. Although he flew many types of aircraft during the war, almost all of his combat time was in Bf-109s (F, G, and K models).

In 1943, Hermann was sent to Romania to help defend the Ploesti oilfields. During Operation Tidal Wave, the low-level B-24 raid, Hermann was in the fighter control centre, helping to coordinate the fighter response to the raid. Throughout the war, Hermann had his own personal aircraft. When he commanded 4./JG4, his plane was Yellow 5, a Bf-109G-6 named "Whisky." Upon leaving Romania, Hermann gave that plane to the Romanians, and got a reconnaissance version for his personal plane. This was a much different aircraft from any other he flew. First off, it had a rear view mirror, which none of his other planes were ever equipped with. Second, the plane was built to a much higher level than standard fighters. All of the rivets had been filled and sanded, and the plane had outer gear doors (like the Bf-109K-4) which sealed the wheel wells very well. This gave his plane much better performance and endurance than the other aircraft in his unit, so he was always the last man in the formation to land.

As one would expect, Hermann had many things to say about the Bf-109. He pushed the Bf-109 about as far as it would go with regards to performance, having once flown a Bf-109F-4 up to 13 000 metres (over 40,000 feet), where he had to breathe direct pressure oxygen and the temperature was -70 degrees C. He also dove a Bf-109 to an indicated air speed of 950 km/h, and had a wing root fairing pop off! Hermann remembers all Bf-109s as having very strong torque, which could be quite unforgiving to a novice pilot. The interrupter gear for the cowl guns would fail on occasion; if the aircraft had an aluminum propeller, then a small hole would be left. The wooden propellers, however, would splinter.

Hermann Weber's description of the Bf-109K-4 as "the ultimate death trap for pilots," whose pilot was "all shook up" whenever the engine-mounted 30mm gun fired, we gain an amazing insight in to the world of sixty years ago by listening to veterans (by the way, the Bf-109K-4 was, according to Hermann, a very poor dogfighter due to its altered centre of gravity). He also believed that the P-51 was "a much hotter airplane" than any Bf-109. Among the most interesting and unexpected pieces of information I heard was Hermann's assessment of Romanian fighter pilots. Having flown with and sometimes commanded Romanian pilots, he felt that they were of a higher quality than German pilot, especially in their flying skills, due to the fact that they were drawn from the nobility and that almost all of them already knew how to fly before they joined the Romanian air force.


More at the site.

Blutarski2004
04-06-2005, 02:14 PM
Gents,

Go here to read an interesting article on a German 109 pilot and his story -


http://ipmslondon.tripod.com/modelingarticles/id8.html


Hermann Weber (left in the photo above) served in the Luftwaffe's JG 4 for 2 years, flying Bf-109s from Romania, Italy, Belgium, and Germany.

Hermann Weber was a Luftwaffe pilot from 1941 to 1945, ending the war as Gruppen technical officer for I/JG4. Although he flew many types of aircraft during the war, almost all of his combat time was in Bf-109s (F, G, and K models).

In 1943, Hermann was sent to Romania to help defend the Ploesti oilfields. During Operation Tidal Wave, the low-level B-24 raid, Hermann was in the fighter control centre, helping to coordinate the fighter response to the raid. Throughout the war, Hermann had his own personal aircraft. When he commanded 4./JG4, his plane was Yellow 5, a Bf-109G-6 named "Whisky." Upon leaving Romania, Hermann gave that plane to the Romanians, and got a reconnaissance version for his personal plane. This was a much different aircraft from any other he flew. First off, it had a rear view mirror, which none of his other planes were ever equipped with. Second, the plane was built to a much higher level than standard fighters. All of the rivets had been filled and sanded, and the plane had outer gear doors (like the Bf-109K-4) which sealed the wheel wells very well. This gave his plane much better performance and endurance than the other aircraft in his unit, so he was always the last man in the formation to land.

As one would expect, Hermann had many things to say about the Bf-109. He pushed the Bf-109 about as far as it would go with regards to performance, having once flown a Bf-109F-4 up to 13 000 metres (over 40,000 feet), where he had to breathe direct pressure oxygen and the temperature was -70 degrees C. He also dove a Bf-109 to an indicated air speed of 950 km/h, and had a wing root fairing pop off! Hermann remembers all Bf-109s as having very strong torque, which could be quite unforgiving to a novice pilot. The interrupter gear for the cowl guns would fail on occasion; if the aircraft had an aluminum propeller, then a small hole would be left. The wooden propellers, however, would splinter.

Hermann Weber's description of the Bf-109K-4 as "the ultimate death trap for pilots," whose pilot was "all shook up" whenever the engine-mounted 30mm gun fired, we gain an amazing insight in to the world of sixty years ago by listening to veterans (by the way, the Bf-109K-4 was, according to Hermann, a very poor dogfighter due to its altered centre of gravity). He also believed that the P-51 was "a much hotter airplane" than any Bf-109. Among the most interesting and unexpected pieces of information I heard was Hermann's assessment of Romanian fighter pilots. Having flown with and sometimes commanded Romanian pilots, he felt that they were of a higher quality than German pilot, especially in their flying skills, due to the fact that they were drawn from the nobility and that almost all of them already knew how to fly before they joined the Romanian air force.


More at the site.

Waldo.Pepper
04-06-2005, 03:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Among the most interesting and unexpected pieces of information I heard was Hermann's assessment of Romanian fighter pilots. Having flown with and sometimes commanded Romanian pilots, he felt that they were of a higher quality than German pilot, especially in their flying skills, due to the fact that they were drawn from the nobility and that almost all of them already knew how to fly before they joined the Romanian air force. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really good post. Thanks, I loved it, however that being said.

Well no kidding that the Romanian pilots were of a higher quality. There were a LOT fewer of them and the quality of their training did not deteriorate dramaticaly during the 43-45 period. So I don't really see the big surprise here. Belgian pilots, French pilots, would all be higher quality of the great mass of cannon fodder shoved into the Luftwaffe meat grinder.

As for the fact that their nobility had anything to do with this... that I would dispute. Perhaps it is the result of some snobbery or elitism of the author. At the Romanian Air Force website.. I don't think I see many nobility mentioned. (I may be remembering this poorly - but I don't think so).

Also no kidding the K is a poor dogfighter. Don't think it is supposed to be a dogfighter.

Really good stuff thanks.

geetarman
04-06-2005, 04:22 PM
Great read! Thank you.

Von_Zero
04-06-2005, 04:32 PM
Nobility dinn't make such a difference, some pilots had indeed noble roots. There was a Prince for example, Capt. Constantin Cantacuzino, wich also was the leading ace of the romanian air force, but i think his succes was more due to the fact that he had a strong flying background, being an ex. aerobatic pilot, and a very famous one at that time. As Waldo.Pepper said also the number of them was much smaller and they received a constent training through out the war, before being sent into battle, unlike the LW wich was forced to throw more and more ill-trained pilots into combat, as the war progressed.
anyway, very nice read, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

vocatx
04-06-2005, 05:06 PM
If you read the article carefully, he doesn't mean they were better pilots BECAUSE they had noble blood in their veins, it was because they had previous experience flying before joining the air force. The nobles were probably some of the only people that could afford to fly in Romania at that time. Having some aircraft experience to build on would definitely be an advantage over someone who had probably never even near an airplane before.

LEXX_Luthor
04-06-2005, 06:39 PM
vocatx:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you read the article carefully,... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ya, weird how fast so many flight simmers didn't see the reasoning in the article.

Scary really.

Great article http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

p1ngu666
04-06-2005, 07:15 PM
good read, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Waldo.Pepper
04-06-2005, 09:50 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
vocatx:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>If you read the article carefully,... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ya, weird how fast so many flight simmers didn't see the reasoning in the article.

Scary really.

Great article http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I realized it, and nevertheless disputed (the Luftwaffe Veteran's) observation. I'm sure that nobility confered familiarity with aviation. This familiarity and experience is what I am still poo poo ing. I still think he was dazzled by the pedigree the way countless boobs will be when the "Bride of Chuckie" and "His Royal Earness" wed on Saturday.

Blackdog5555
04-06-2005, 10:08 PM
LOL.. thats funny..Bride of Chuckie...hee heee. really thats funny.
BTW. The P38 has nice gun shake.. most dont like it but i think its realistic. Would like to see the same thing with the 30s in the nose w/ the K.. the plane must have jumped backwards with those suckers. Same with the Ki84c...

darkhorizon11
04-07-2005, 12:08 AM
"Once the battle was joined, however, it was discovered that the planes were in fact P-51D Mustangs with wing tanks (which appeared to be the Me-262s engines from above). What was truly bizarre, however, was the fact that the aircraft continued to fly straight and level even as they were being attacked, and that there were no pilots in the cockpits! Charlie believes that these planes were some sort of Allied secret weapon "robot planes" (akin to the Aphrodite remote-controlled B-17s and B-24s used to attack high-value targets); at any rate, once the Spitfires returned to base, all records of the fight (including gun camera film) were destroyed."


Can anyone throw anymore insight into this I never heard of remote controlled aircraft being used in combat DURING the war.

Only recently have they been implimented in the war on terror and stuff...

Kurfurst__
04-07-2005, 04:58 AM
Interesting. One question that arised in me, the comment on the allaged CoG issues of the K-4. I/JG 4 had received them in Dec 1944, up to which it used G-14s and G-10s, which had the same weight, same CoG, same MW 50 tank etc. In brief, it just doesn`t make sense, considering they had the same placement of equipment, and the same weight within 100 kg difference.
But he might have a point of the 109K being dangerous, with all that huge performance, one needed a firm hand to keep it under control, but then again, that`s the case with all late war fighters.

Intersting comment otoh on the wheel well door equipped G-6s, I have seen some pictures of such, they had gunpods, I believed they only belonged to the 'private air force' of Messerschmitt, piloted by factory pilots forming a protective staffel over the factory itself.

There`s also an interview with Franz Stiegler on the bf109.com :


"What other types of planes did you fly?

He flew the Me262 on many missions near the end of the war and likes its speed most of all. The engines had to be overhauled every 20 hours, and the aircraft was sluggish in its controls at low and very high speeds. To many it was hard to switch to a new aircraft after flying only one type for so many years. The huge speed advantage made it difficult to do passes on bombers as they would always end up overshooting the formation since they came in too fast. It took some getting used to. On landing they were very vulnerable however and used 190's to cover them. The stick control at low speeds was bad, and the engines had to be throttled very far back to prepare for landing. He also regularly flew the Ju87 to visit his girlfriend at night. It was very forgiving in its flight characteristics and had very good manoeuvrability. The 190 was overall a better a/c than the 109, but again the pilots liked the 109's climb and simply the fact that by the time they had flown 400 combat missions the 109 had become very, very familiar to them. He also flew a 110, which he thought was sluggish and made for a large target for fighters. Franz also said he once flew a 4-engine flying boat. Franz Stigler liked the 109G as well and also enjoyed flying the K-4. The K-4, he said was very much like the G yet could leave all other fighters behind in climb. In control feel he said the K felt identical to the G. He described on many occasions where they would just bank away from the fighters and climb away from them (my guess this is probably after attacking them?). He also flew a Spitfire once, saying that he liked the aircraft.

Waldo.Pepper
04-07-2005, 01:45 PM
About the K.

Interesting how different people read things differently.

I figured that what he meant about the K being a deathtrap was refering to the poor quality of construction combined with the poor quality of crew training toward the end.