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e5kimo
10-22-2004, 08:32 AM
a few things.

why pacific fighters comes with a standalone option is beyond me. there might be heaps of planes even as standalone but nothing to back it up with. hardly any missions worth mentioning apart from the ever present carrier landing and take off for each plane. i would be put off big time if i was new to this series.
PF is an addon ! it should come in a bundle with FB and AEP at a higher price. essentially without FB it will hardly be of any use online anyway.
i am glad that i got used to il2 on the original demo and fb/aep. there was stuff to look at on your flights, it show cased the capabilities. all pacific fighters does in the campaigns and missions (apart from pearl harbour) is bore me to death.
if i had started to play il2 with this new standalone i would have watched the training, i would have gotten all excited and practised the landings and maybe gunnery and would have jumped head on into a carreer mode... now that would prolly have lasted 5 missions max before the endless flights followed by potentially short and desatrous engagements followed by endless repeats of the same mission would have killed all joy...water is great but is it really necessary to hand out 150 nautical miles flights as if they were going out of fashion ?
so i would have thought "i ll try this online". a big dispointment called ubi.com might not have put me off enough and i would have explored the forums here and found out about HL. great stuff i would have thought. it would have found my way into a dogfight server and would have had my @ss handed to me faster than i could say "hey what was that then ?". i would have wondered and tried to talk to the crowd that hangs around that place. prolly with a stupid newbie question and likely the elitist anti newbie **** would have put me off all together.

anyway ... some other stuff

the sort of tedious 'realism' should be reserved for the few that like it and not be the default. the coop campaigns are absolutely pointless imho.. when i play with friends in a coop i want to jump in and mix it up instead of navigating for 45 minutes to a recon point at which bugger all shows up.

another big problem is the flak. those little puffs of smoke might look really nice but if you have a battlegroup or even just a destroyer and a carrier laying the smackdown on you a regular system , even on medium just takes a bow, rapes the hard drive and salutes you after a minute of freeze with a neat little "you has crashed ..."
it looks great but it is total overkill.
i know i could do with an extra 512mb of ram but hey, shouldnt there be an option to disable this crazy pixel shader gallore ?

maps. great .. thanks ... water water water... and then some more water...
ok water is obviously part of the pacific but do the maps have to be that big ? what is the point ? 90% wont ever ever build a mission that makes use of so much space and if they did 99% wont bother flying it. all it does is bog down your computer. some maps even feature endless water with the island crammed into a map corner and then cut off in the middle. why ??!!
could there be just one map with plenty of nothing for the realism junkies and the rest be kept on a reasonable scale ?

ok .. enough of this rant.

i like the additions, the planes, the countries, the maps(apart from the above criticism) the carriers(allthough they seem awefully out of scale but that might be just my imganiation) but i have to say that i had a few lomac moments today in a very short ammount of time. very frustrated. i hope patches will make it better, fix some bugs and improve the performance. i m not giving up on il2. i just wanted to say that while it is good and worth buying it has its flaws. some cosmetic, some rather grave imho. il2 is the best flight sim for me and having a lomac moment with it is just scary (you know , the total frustration when no matter what you try to adjust in settings it will just laugh at you and crash)

now flame away.

e5kimo
10-22-2004, 08:32 AM
a few things.

why pacific fighters comes with a standalone option is beyond me. there might be heaps of planes even as standalone but nothing to back it up with. hardly any missions worth mentioning apart from the ever present carrier landing and take off for each plane. i would be put off big time if i was new to this series.
PF is an addon ! it should come in a bundle with FB and AEP at a higher price. essentially without FB it will hardly be of any use online anyway.
i am glad that i got used to il2 on the original demo and fb/aep. there was stuff to look at on your flights, it show cased the capabilities. all pacific fighters does in the campaigns and missions (apart from pearl harbour) is bore me to death.
if i had started to play il2 with this new standalone i would have watched the training, i would have gotten all excited and practised the landings and maybe gunnery and would have jumped head on into a carreer mode... now that would prolly have lasted 5 missions max before the endless flights followed by potentially short and desatrous engagements followed by endless repeats of the same mission would have killed all joy...water is great but is it really necessary to hand out 150 nautical miles flights as if they were going out of fashion ?
so i would have thought "i ll try this online". a big dispointment called ubi.com might not have put me off enough and i would have explored the forums here and found out about HL. great stuff i would have thought. it would have found my way into a dogfight server and would have had my @ss handed to me faster than i could say "hey what was that then ?". i would have wondered and tried to talk to the crowd that hangs around that place. prolly with a stupid newbie question and likely the elitist anti newbie **** would have put me off all together.

anyway ... some other stuff

the sort of tedious 'realism' should be reserved for the few that like it and not be the default. the coop campaigns are absolutely pointless imho.. when i play with friends in a coop i want to jump in and mix it up instead of navigating for 45 minutes to a recon point at which bugger all shows up.

another big problem is the flak. those little puffs of smoke might look really nice but if you have a battlegroup or even just a destroyer and a carrier laying the smackdown on you a regular system , even on medium just takes a bow, rapes the hard drive and salutes you after a minute of freeze with a neat little "you has crashed ..."
it looks great but it is total overkill.
i know i could do with an extra 512mb of ram but hey, shouldnt there be an option to disable this crazy pixel shader gallore ?

maps. great .. thanks ... water water water... and then some more water...
ok water is obviously part of the pacific but do the maps have to be that big ? what is the point ? 90% wont ever ever build a mission that makes use of so much space and if they did 99% wont bother flying it. all it does is bog down your computer. some maps even feature endless water with the island crammed into a map corner and then cut off in the middle. why ??!!
could there be just one map with plenty of nothing for the realism junkies and the rest be kept on a reasonable scale ?

ok .. enough of this rant.

i like the additions, the planes, the countries, the maps(apart from the above criticism) the carriers(allthough they seem awefully out of scale but that might be just my imganiation) but i have to say that i had a few lomac moments today in a very short ammount of time. very frustrated. i hope patches will make it better, fix some bugs and improve the performance. i m not giving up on il2. i just wanted to say that while it is good and worth buying it has its flaws. some cosmetic, some rather grave imho. il2 is the best flight sim for me and having a lomac moment with it is just scary (you know , the total frustration when no matter what you try to adjust in settings it will just laugh at you and crash)

now flame away.

Chuck_Older
10-22-2004, 08:34 AM
Sounds like you had some ideas about what PF was going to be and they didn't turn out to be true

x6BL_Brando
10-22-2004, 08:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>now flame away. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like you're quite 'capable' of doing that yourself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

TX-WarHawk
10-22-2004, 08:42 AM
Ok, bye-bye. Wish you luck with your next game.

beepboop
10-22-2004, 08:48 AM
Preach it brotha. Yes, you'll face the million fanboys, but at least you came out with a decent case that wasn't too much of a rant.

Yeah, as a standalone product, this would really p*ss me off bigtime. The missions are, as you have desribed, boring as hell. The campaign is made **** by the fact that you have to fly 4,000 miles in order to reach a waypoint where you either find nothing at all, or are confronted with a trillion AAA guns that immeadiatly prompt a series of stutter problems that usually result in you flying into the ocean. Should you be lucky enough to a) find your mission goal, and b) survive doing so, then you get to fly all the way back to your own carrier, at which point a random pause will make sure that you slam into the stern of the ship rather than landing on it.

It's not really a new game, it's a giant add-on to FB. I'd be mad if I was new to flightsimming and I got PF without FB.

GT182
10-22-2004, 08:58 AM
I've heard tell that flights to targets were hours of boredom with intermitant fights of shear terror. Why should it be any different with PF? Besides "YOU" have the option of TimeSkip where they didnt't. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Chuck_Older
10-22-2004, 08:59 AM
Hmmm, well, I'll repeat myself, but-

Sounds like some folks had an idea of what PF would be and what it wouldn't be that wasn't what the 1C: team had in mind


It's a type of game called a "simulation". A lot of the air war in WWII was boring. You have the 'warp' and time compression features, do you not?

It seems to me that some folks should have stayed away from PF in the first place because this type of game isn't your thing.

Mail me your copy of PF with all included materials including game box and manuals (In English, please) and I will mail you the retail price of the game title.

actionhank1786
10-22-2004, 09:03 AM
"maps. great .. thanks ... water water water... and then some more water...
ok water is obviously part of the pacific but do the maps have to be that big ? what is the point ? 90% wont ever ever build a mission that makes use of so much space and if they did 99% wont bother flying it. all it does is bog down your computer. some maps even feature endless water with the island crammed into a map corner and then cut off in the middle. why ??!!
could there be just one map with plenty of nothing for the realism junkies and the rest be kept on a reasonable scale ?"

This just in, Pacific Islands surrounded by a lot of water!
Stay tuned for the latest updates

spoonfish
10-22-2004, 09:06 AM
There is no doubt about it the man is right, the campaigns completely suck at the moment IMO. There are loads of bugs, historic inaccuracies all over the place and they are pretty dull. Don't even get me started on the lack of immersion.

Still I have good faith in Maddox games, they always come through in the end with patches etc so maybe the campaigns will be ok eventually, but at the moment I view PF as strictly an online experience...

e5kimo
10-22-2004, 09:13 AM
great, so i should just stop playing a game that i love ? why would i sell it ?

i love the pacific theme but as much as il2 is a simulation it is still a computer game and i reckon they could have catered at least a bit towards the casual gamer that rather flys 5 missions a night with his friends than just 1. they did such a great job with normandy and the aep pack in general.

obviously maddox relies too heavily on the community to provide the content in terms of missions and dynamic campaign generators that they failed to deliver. that is ok with me as i know where to look for that stuff. just pointing out that if i was new i d be put off.

btw. why the is there not a dynamic campaign for each map ? why is there no option to influence the mission radius for ngen ? simple things that were obviously overlooked.

GT182
10-22-2004, 09:18 AM
You said it Chuck.

weasel75
10-22-2004, 09:46 AM
I like the IL-2 stuff, but I agree with Eskimo on this. As stand-alone this would be a bad simulation to start with.
Accurate FM, DM, great FX, it all can not help if the missions are sparse (count the actual number without takeoff/landing-missions!) or just generated "out of the blue" (campaign).
Lets not start about the mission in the SBD without fuel .... the community provided 10x better missions for FB than the average PF-mission ... and that community-driven missions came for free. Maybe they should have asked some good mission-designers to make some nice stuff for PF http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

How shall the new pilot value all the beauty in PF if it lacks immersive missions, a decent manual (see About the manual (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=9761086232)) or some nice tracks to get people hooked?
At the moment the tracks are just short clips of weapon-delivery, nothing like a story, the missions lack any feeling, etc....

About "But it is a accurate simulation"-snobs:
That attitude is plain stupid. IL-2 was not an accurate simulation either. In the IL-2 missiones there was at least 3-5 (or more) times more action than in the actual daily flight-routine in WW2.
And if PF simulates boring flying over the sea for hours, then this could be called a technically "accurate" simulation, but life is not just technical and therefor it is more boring than RL. Some small (but important) details are missing: smart wingmen/gunner to talk to during flight, the beauty of nature to look at, fuel-managment, etc... just, to start with ...
And even more boring than RL?
Hell, if I would like that, I'd go for "The Sims" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Dont get me wrong, as said before, I like PF (and IL-2 since the first demo), but it looks like it was rushed out to meet the deadline and a *lot* of its potential stays hidden beneath the un-finished/-polished surface.
For sim-"newbie"s this will be a rough start into the flight-sim-genre, maybe some are even scared away. And that is sad, since PF actually *has* the inner beauty, and it is a great sim...

S! - Have a nice 4h-RealTime-flight - W75

PS: Time-compression by factor 8 helps, but is no option for online-flying.
PPS: Pardon my english.

Obi_Kwiet
10-22-2004, 10:02 AM
Hmmm yeah, lots of water. To make less water, just make the maps 3 square miles. Happy now? Pacific Islands don't get bigger just because you don't like fly over water.

If you're complaning about lag turn your settings down. Your gripe should be with your PC not the sim. Oleg can't do anything about you not having an awesome PC. Just because he includes high graphic options dosen't mean every one will be able to run them.

As for lack of missions, that happens every time. I don't know why, but it seems like the release could be delayed for a week for some missions to be made.

Saburo_0
10-22-2004, 10:04 AM
I'm confused...are the campaigns worse than in FB ? I assumed they'd be similar. Can you no longer adjust mission distance etc??

TacticalYak3
10-22-2004, 10:21 AM
More disappointing then the reviews is the knee-jerk reactions of some here.

As a Canadian I of course will not have the opportunity to purchase PF until early next month (that's OK I'm patient). Nonetheless, I do find it rather odd that a game that is certainly going to appeal to the American flight simmer has been released in Russia/Europe/etc... first, but that's just creative marketing I guess. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I am sure Pacific Fighters will be a lot of fun with customized DF/COOP/Campaign missions with the squad. Looking forward to the new theatre and new planes. I'm sure there will need to be patch(s) to address bugs.

Notwithstanding, the comments about flight paths over endless water shouldn't be dismissed, as not everyone (read - only a small minority) really are willing or have time (read - have a life and family responsibilities) to fly for an hour before seeing any action.

Now having said all this, what about the features to speed up time/reduce flight paths? Will we be able to use customized campaign settings in config.ini for PF? Perhaps once the community gets its hands on the game and starts making customized stuff things will be a lot different?

In the meantime feel free to provide your honest reviews. Some of us here, while we love IL-2 and expect to enjoy PF, can accept criticism without attacking the author.

P.S. I personally found the in-game campaigns in IL-2 a lot less enjoyable then what many in the community have since produced. I am hoping that some of that "excitement" woven into custom made missions would be expressed by the Developer.

weasel75
10-22-2004, 10:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
As for lack of missions, that happens every time. I don't know why, but it seems like the release could be delayed for a week for some missions to be made. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Or outsource the mission-design. There are a lot of talented mission-designers around and for a few bucks (or just for the honor of doing it), for sure some of them had helped out.
And the mission with the grounded SBD, I think my first self-made mission was more challenging/complex http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

crazyivan1970
10-22-2004, 10:51 AM
First of all, there is no need to attack someone for expressing his OWN opinion. Everyone is entitled to it.

Second of all, as is Pacific fighters did not fit on 2 CD`s and there will be more stuff very soon added via free addon.

Third of all, Starshoy adds campaigns all the time, i will try to keep an eye on it and link to any news on that subject.

Fourth of all, this is simulation and PTO was nothing like ETO was, there will be no 40 min missions, it just a different war, something to think about.

And last thing... PTO was water, water and a little more water, and nothing we can do about it. Once again....simulation not the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

weasel75
10-22-2004, 11:03 AM
25 mission-pack on checksix .. nice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Hope that UBI will include some missions into the first "patch"/AddOn. That way it should be easier to get the missions to new customers.

sapre
10-22-2004, 11:06 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by beepboop:
Preach it brotha. Yes, you'll face the million fanboys, but at least you came out with a decent case that wasn't too much of a rant.

Yeah, as a standalone product, this would really p*ss me off bigtime. The missions are, as you have desribed, boring as hell. The campaign is made **** by the fact that you have to fly 4,000 miles in order to reach a waypoint where you either find nothing at all, or are confronted with a trillion AAA guns that immeadiatly prompt a series of stutter problems that usually result in you flying into the ocean. Should you be lucky enough to a) find your mission goal, and b) survive doing so, then you get to fly all the way back to your own carrier, at which point a random pause will make sure that you slam into the stern of the ship rather than landing on it.

It's not really a new game, it's a giant add-on to FB. I'd be mad if I was new to flightsimming and I got PF without FB. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As far as to my knowledge, war is NOT a fun thing.
This is not a game. A simulator.
If want to be a rambo of the sky, go play crimson skies.

TacticalYak3
10-22-2004, 11:46 AM
Absolutely right. New realism feature apparently is after your first death the game refuses to work. Some how unless you reformat your machine you won't even be able to re-install the thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheer up it is too just a game (a very good, serious one that I really enjoy, but yes just a PC game nonetheless).

DuxCorvan
10-22-2004, 11:47 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
And last thing... PTO was water, water and a little more water, and nothing we can do about it. Once again....simulation not the game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mmmm, yes. But a China/Burma map could help introducing more variety, wouldn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Snootles
10-22-2004, 11:53 AM
I am very disappointed with the Pacific Ocean. I expected there would be water, but so much water in one place is boring!!! Couldn't they just make it smaller, or plop more islands in the middle of it? This is ****, and if the developers of Earth don't do something about it, I will quit playing this game called Life!

crazyivan1970
10-22-2004, 11:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:

Mmmm, yes. But a China/Burma map could help introducing more variety, wouldn't it? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely, maybe in the future?

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 12:01 PM
Here's what I think about the stand alone option. Keep in mind it is an option. I think it's to get noobs to buy the game and play it as is. If they like it, then they can spend the extra money to get FB/AEP. Making them buy it all at once without trying it is a lot to ask of a noob.

Your second biggest complaint is the time it takes to get to the fight. I don't have PF yet, but isn't there an option to jump to the next way point?

DuxCorvan
10-22-2004, 12:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Snootles:
Couldn't they just make it smaller, or plop more islands in the middle of it? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, I think the japanese are doing it...

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/article.php?id=4350

Haele
10-22-2004, 12:13 PM
The only thing I'm inclined to agree with is the amount of time you spend staring at a black screen with the time skip thing. It seems a little faster than running at x8 but you still normally spend ten minutes per mission looking at not much in particular. If there is a "skip straight to next waypoint" or "skip to the action" option like in other flight sims I can't find it.

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-22-2004, 12:24 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
A lot of the air war in WWII was boring. You have the 'warp' and time compression features, do you not?
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Bingo. For many the simple ability to live vicariously through these simulations are part of the attraction. The fact that it allows those who don't enjoy that aspect to circumvent it through time compression should be enough.

Your issues are well spoken and backed up with reason, but I'd have to agree with chuck_older here. With over 150 posts in your sig, I would assume (accurately or not) that you are at least familiar with the IL2 series and what PF was bringing to the table prior to purchase.

If it's that disappointing, chalk it up to experience and don't play it.

my .02c


TB

TacticalYak3
10-22-2004, 12:47 PM
Personally I suspect we will be able to configure our campaigns in the game's config file. I'm sure things will be fine for both kinds of sim gamers. And if not we always have the Eastern Front and those amazing Yaks to fly. Aye yes, Yaks . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

DonkeyPilot
10-22-2004, 12:56 PM
I have to agree with Haele. Even with time on 8x acceleration or the time skip I have to wait over ten minutes before something happens (on one Mission I waited nearly 20 minutes). As much as I like simulations I do want some action. A "skip to action" Button would be great.

KarayaEine
10-22-2004, 01:05 PM
As a fact much of the time pilots in the pacific spent hours en route to their targets with nothing to see but ocean. this is reality and it sounds like the sim delivers.

Bomber pilots in England experienced the same thing when going to Germany to bomb. The flew for hours before encountering enemy fighters. If you had to make percentages of transit time vs action then it would probably be 90% boredom and 10% action.

That's while IL-2 is enjoyable, you get into the action right away after takeoff. this was a function of how close the action was. Fighter units based out of England usually had to fly for a long while before they would encounter enemy over Europe.

If you don't like it then create missions where the opposing forces are closer or use the QMB function and get into the furballl right off the bat. Or use the time acceleration feature.

Try flying a transpacific flight in FS2004 with a 747 or 777. Just as boring but for 10 hours or more. You decide the level of immersion you wish. No matter what only you can make it fun.

Johann

DonkeyPilot
10-22-2004, 01:19 PM
But I would also like to play a campaign.
I think an acceleration 16x or 32x would also help.

dizeee
10-22-2004, 01:20 PM
idd e5kimo. plus there are loads of maps missing. no truk, no phillipines and no marians.
mentioning the "careermode" and the word immersion in the same sentence is more than understatement. plus several bugs make some of em already unplayable. try flying over the stanly ridge while being part of a a20 squad.
i realy realy hope there will be loads of stuff added/fixed. untill then pf is a total letdown sp wise. and pls dont forget that most players are sp.
ah yeh pls make a general overhaul of the ai. im sick of the famous "ai circle of death" or the moronic ai cheating....
maybe it would be great to collect all important links to good comunity addons, and make them avail to the average simmer. i dont know where to get good campaigns etc

LStarosta
10-22-2004, 01:33 PM
Great game and all, but I was disappointed by how much the carriers were simplified (i.e. lack of elevators, no catapults etc). Maybe it's just the game engine's limitations, seeing as it is an old engine and I actually was surprised with how much of a long way it has gone already.



PS Stop giving me this BS about if you don't like it, don't play it. I'm using my privilage to express myself on this board in a non vulgar manner, just like the author of this thread.

sukebeboy
10-22-2004, 01:36 PM
E5kimo

Thank you for the courage of yor convictions.
I agree with you on a great many points. This game is lacking and were I to purchase it as a stand alone product, I would be very disappointed.

Mr. Maddox has promised a patch that will be released concurrent with the N American release of PF. I only hope that for once he isn't making empty promises and that the D/GEN will be fixed.

Like you, I am a fan of the game and it pains me to see such glaring errors as are currently present. It take courage to rail against popular opinion such as the like prevalent here on the IL2 boards.

I thin if we continue to make constructive criticism and point out what could be fixed without whining that we have a very good chance of realizing what could be a superlative sim.

Don't let the rants of the ignorant fanboys dissuade you.

Sukebeboy

(please excuse any errors in my English grammar. your eloquent statement and my reply required a much stonger level of grammar than I am used to typing.)

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 01:37 PM
It's only an addon. I think we need to wait for BOB to get all the detailed stuff.

sapre
10-22-2004, 01:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DonkeyPilot:
But I would also like to play a campaign.
I think an acceleration 16x or 32x would also help. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Can't you just enjoy the view of the terrain or your aircraft for 10 minutes?
Is that so hard to do?

Snootles
10-22-2004, 01:39 PM
I am definitely less of a critic than some others, but to hear of all these little deficiencies (Hayabusa with regular-type flaps- WHAT??!!?) really gets me down. The best I can do is hope for some prompt and serious patching, as well as some important new planes.

adlabs6
10-22-2004, 01:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KarayaEine:
Try flying a transpacific flight in FS2004 with a 747 or 777. Just as boring but for 10 hours or more. You decide the level of immersion you wish. No matter what only you can make it fun.

Johann <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very true. I certainly don't mind 'boring' travel, I've logged hundreds of MSFS hours doing nothing but following a list of VOR's. It's what you make of it. In MSFS, the investment is worth it as you will no doubt succeed if you know what you are doing.

Where this could get tiresome in PF (or any sim) is when you make the serious effort to get to the target the 'real way' by hand, all the way, no time compression. Then at the target you die after a hail of flak smacks you before you can even start running home.

In the real world this is called a very, very bad day. There is NO simulation of this in PF. You will not float on your life vest for 48 realtime hours in PF hoping to be saved.

In a game, this type of gameplay can border on horribly boring and repetitive if the player suffers a disheartening, random death every few missions after devoting extra time to get to the target.

Nicely built missions will take into account the ammount of time the player will devote to a mission, and knowing the strenghts and weaknesses of the game will design the mission difficulty to provide extra survivability for missions with larger time/effort requirements.

Dieing six times in a row on a 25 minute "scramble" mission is almost stimulating, it makes me want to get up there and get it done right next time.

Dieing six times in a row on after a 45 minute trip to the target makes me want to turn off the game.

Snootles
10-22-2004, 01:47 PM
Dying six times in a row after a 45-minute trip makes me want to set up a FMB scenario with whatever just shot me down versus, say, sixteen ace aircraft that pound it into ****. That feels good!

madsarmy
10-22-2004, 01:50 PM
Hum! Looks like I'm the odd one out here I really like to fly real time,no auto pilot & in formation. I get a real buzz when you've been flying for an hour then you see some dots on the horizon.freind or foe? turns out to be foe. after 1hour to get to your target it makes you very careful of your own life.you don't take silly risks. Getting home in one piece is the goal.What a buzz it is when you turn that engine off when you've taxed & parked.
The sortie I did this evening took 59mins 98% sea half way through I was so hot that I opened the canopy to cool down(duh!) How intense is FB/AEP/PF Now with PF you have the pressure of landing on the carrier to finnish it off.
Looking forward to 2+hour sorties,going to feel drained after themhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aw Struck

Alec_George
10-22-2004, 01:54 PM
Reading all the posts here about bugs and design flaws I have feeling that:

UBI project manager:

"we have to release it before christmas, to rise sales number (thinking: i'll get hefty bonus he-he)"
Oleg:
"Game is not finished. Not all maps are done, plane models are not perfect, AI is kind of ******ed, mission generator is buggy - we need at list 3 months more to deliver our usual quality product.."
UBI:
"forget about quality. you have decent amount of funboys, they'll buy it regardles of anything(thinking or may be even 2-3 copies he-he). And you'll fix everything in patches"
Oleg: "No. This is not rifght thing to do to community, we can make baest fly sim ever with this"
UBI: 'i'm getting tired of this, check your contract and read small print. i want master disk october 1 or I will call my lawyer and he will sue your *** to hell" (thinking: we will release beta in Europe and get some feedback for patch, and money and will see haw is it selling, and release game in US together with patch, he-he, and i'll get my bonus he-he).

P.S. Sales are poor, UBI manager gets his bonus, IL2 franachise dies.

NIGHTBARON
10-22-2004, 01:56 PM
Well, Personally I got no problem with the "long travel time" thing, Infact... I kindda hate one of those "teleport" feature featured in many nowadays sims, For me those feature DO make the game feels more "arcade-ish".

Now, About the lack of missions and etc... Sadly I have to agree with that, With abit more polish I think playing PF would be even more interesting than it already is in the current version.

Thank You,

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 01:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madsarmy:
Hum! Looks like I'm the odd one out here I really like to fly real time,no auto pilot & in formation. I get a real buzz when you've been flying for an hour then you see some dots on the horizon.freind or foe? turns out to be foe. after 1hour to get to your target it makes you very careful of your own life.you don't take silly risks. Getting home in one piece is the goal.What a buzz it is when you turn that engine off when you've taxed & parked.
The sortie I did this evening took 59mins 98% sea half way through I was so hot that I opened the canopy to cool down(duh!) How intense is FB/AEP/PF Now with PF you have the pressure of landing on the carrier to finnish it off.
Looking forward to 2+hour sorties,going to feel drained after themhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aw Struck <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't say buzz more than once in a post. It's my rules.

DonkeyPilot
10-22-2004, 02:03 PM
@sapre

In an mission with 4 Waypoints (including the starting one) in wich you need to wait over 10 minutes to get from waypoint to waypoint on 8x time acceleration means over 40 minutes without action.
That's a lot time for watching a plane and water (for there is not really that much terrain to watch in the pacific). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And if I switch to "time skip" I can watch a black screen for almost the same time (only a bit faster then 8x time acceleration).

I don't see a problem why there shouldn't be faster time acceleration. People who don't have any problems flying without action for quite some time don't need to activate it.
But I (and some other people) would surly apreciate it.

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 02:05 PM
You could shorten the flights in the conf. file in FB. Can't you do it in PF?

LStarosta
10-22-2004, 02:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by madsarmy:
Hum! Looks like I'm the odd one out here I really like to fly real time,no auto pilot & in formation. I get a real buzz when you've been flying for an hour then you see some dots on the horizon.freind or foe? turns out to be foe. after 1hour to get to your target it makes you very careful of your own life.you don't take silly risks. Getting home in one piece is the goal.What a buzz it is when you turn that engine off when you've taxed & parked.
The sortie I did this evening took 59mins 98% sea half way through I was so hot that I opened the canopy to cool down(duh!) How intense is FB/AEP/PF Now with PF you have the pressure of landing on the carrier to finnish it off.
Looking forward to 2+hour sorties,going to feel drained after themhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Aw Struck <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


LoL, the rest of us like to go outside sometimes. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Chuck_Older
10-22-2004, 02:29 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alec_George:
Reading all the posts here about bugs and design flaws I have feeling that:

UBI project manager:

"we have to release it before christmas, to rise sales number (thinking: i'll get hefty bonus he-he)"
Oleg:
"Game is not finished. Not all maps are done, plane models are not perfect, AI is kind of ******ed, mission generator is buggy - we need at list 3 months more to deliver our usual quality product.."
UBI:
"forget about quality. you have decent amount of funboys, they'll buy it regardles of anything(thinking or may be even 2-3 copies he-he). And you'll fix everything in patches"
Oleg: "No. This is not rifght thing to do to community, we can make baest fly sim ever with this"
UBI: 'i'm getting tired of this, check your contract and read small print. i want master disk october 1 or I will call my lawyer and he will sue your *** to hell" (thinking: we will release beta in Europe and get some feedback for patch, and money and will see haw is it selling, and release game in US together with patch, he-he, and i'll get my bonus he-he).

P.S. Sales are poor, UBI manager gets his bonus, IL2 franachise dies. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You should be careful with posts like this. Not everyone reads the entirity of every post and somebody's going to think Oleg actually said that

vonSchnitter
10-22-2004, 02:31 PM
Hi Guys,

may we compare notes, please ?

1. The off-line campaign.
Starhoys DGEN/NGEN is certainly working within the limits of PF. But we hade the priviledge to experience in the past some community driven solutions - most notably with Lowengrins DCG - that there are more "creative" ways to make a string of generated missions more lets say interesting and a lot more fun.
And the plot of making NGEN the selling point of BoE did not do much to endear Starhoys efforts to me.
2. The Maps.
The Maps are what any mission builder has to live with. Lets have a look at the situation for the Guadalcanal and New Guinea maps.

From a historical point of view, both are wortless, because the strategical/tactical situation is not reflected amd there is no way to recreate it from withing PF. Have a look at the map:

http://ww2airfronts.org/pf/pf-map1.jpg
took this from: THE ARMY AIR FORCES In World War II, Volume Four; THE PACIFIC: GUADALCANAL to SAIPAN AUGUST 1942 TO JULY 1944
By the AIR FORCE HISTORICAL DIVISION, United States Air Force
WILFRED J. PAUL, COL., USAF, Director ALBERT F. SIMPSON, Air Force Historian
THE UNIVERSITY OF CHICAGO PRESS, CHICAGO & LONDON Third impression 1963 (1st Edition 1950)

The point is: Rabaul was the pivoting point of all Japanese air activity in the south west pacific -with Lae and Shortland acting as "secondaries" by a long margin. Now compare this with the maps in PF of that area. See ?

And I do not care to pay any regard to technology - i.e. design limitations of a three year+ old engine. Others have managed pretty well before ...
If the engine cannot handle it, well ...

The pacific is large, the flights to target long - and there is always the time acceleration button ...

We will see ...

Cheers
vonSchnitter

Chuck_Older
10-22-2004, 02:48 PM
The above is a real concern

Alec_George
10-22-2004, 02:51 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
You should be careful with posts like this. Not everyone reads the entirity of every post and somebody's going to think Oleg actually said that <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too many spelling errors. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Chuck_Older
10-22-2004, 02:55 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alec_George:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
You should be careful with posts like this. Not everyone reads the entirity of every post and somebody's going to think Oleg actually said that <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Too many spelling errors. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

LOL!

Not ENOUGH spelling errors! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DuxCorvan
10-22-2004, 03:25 PM
The travel thru this thread is also getting more and more boring... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Good points, vonSchnitter... I hope Lowengrin will come in us offliners' rescue.

Obi_Kwiet
10-22-2004, 04:02 PM
I'd like to see a campiagn that actually followed a story line. As for UBI, Oleg should dump them. I htink the reason most of these sim don't have a finished feel to them is that onces he's got the engine done, UBI rushes him. He needs to be able to work on his own time.

owlwatcher
10-22-2004, 04:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by vonSchnitter:
Hi Guys,

may we compare notes, please ?

1. The off-line campaign.
Starhoys DGEN/NGEN is certainly working within the limits of PF. But we hade the priviledge to experience in the past some community driven solutions - most notably with Lowengrins DCG - that there are more "creative" ways to make a string of generated missions more lets say interesting and a lot more fun.
And the plot of making NGEN the selling point of BoE did not do much to endear Starhoys efforts to me.
2. The Maps.
The Maps are what any mission builder has to live with. Lets have a look at the situation for the Guadalcanal and New Guinea maps.

From a historical point of view, both are wortless, because the strategical/tactical situation is not reflected amd there is no way to recreate it from withing PF. Have a look at the map:

http://ww2airfronts.org/pf/pf-map1.jpg
The point is: Rabaul was the pivoting point of all Japanese air activity in the south west pacific -with Lae and Shortland acting as "secondaries" by a long margin. Now compare this with the maps in PF of that area. See ?

And I do not care to pay any regard to technology - i.e. design limitations of a three year+ old engine. Others have managed pretty well before ...
If the engine cannot handle it, well ...

The pacific is large, the flights to target long - and there is always the time acceleration button ...

We will see ...

Cheers
vonSchnitter <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your map is not big enough for a day in the pacific. The time and space used in one day of battle in the pacific is scary.
Exsample
Planes would shuttle from Townsville to port Mosesby then bomb Rabaul and back again.
Mean while Recon s B-17 and PBYs flying out of
Espiritu Santo would be flying north to the Solomons.
Flying reinforments to Henderson field had to come out of Espiritu Santo or off a CV. This was not easy in single engine planes.
Have not studied the paths of the IJ forces yet but most likly some long flights.
Rabaul to Henderson was not a short flight by any means.
The Pacific Theater you had to push your time in the air. It's a all new ball of wax.
Just like the 109s over England. Just expanded alittle... .
As to no good missions, Make your own.
No PF yet.
Give it time the game and the computers will get better.

Saburo_0
10-22-2004, 04:24 PM
Over at Sim HQ Starshoy comments on updates to the campaign engine that will be release very soon. & states that well here's a little:
"Yes. USMC now fly F4F in Guadalcanal, and have carrier based campaigns for other maps. We'll make every campaign which is possible eventually, and according to my discussions with Oleg there should be no problems in adding campaigns regardless of UBI patches and addons involving the game itself. So it can be done much quicker and flexible way now"

For the link http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=114;t=000332

nRsberger
10-22-2004, 04:36 PM
well wot can i say!!!

madox or how ever u spell it,wot a dissapointment this is
1. whers all these bombers were suposed to have..

2.wots with flying like 2000 miles for there to be just haha let me say it FLAK and u die sort of thing

3.bugs bugs bugs but hey we all expect that but so many!!!!come on guys!!!

4. well i could go on an on an on

5.so u know wot ive refunded this game and im playing cfs3 lol

might as well just the same game init! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nRsberger:
well wot can i say!!!

madox or how ever u spell it,wot a dissapointment this is
1. whers all these bombers were suposed to have..

2.wots with flying like 2000 miles for there to be just haha let me say it FLAK and u die sort of thing

3.bugs bugs bugs but hey we all expect that but so many!!!!come on guys!!!

4. well i could go on an on an on

5.so u know wot ive refunded this game and im playing cfs3 lol

might as well just the same game init! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Cya. You really gave it a chance huh? There's a patch waiting as soon as the whole world has the game, but you couldn't wait. Yeah, CFS3 is much better. It has no bugs.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

nRsberger
10-22-2004, 04:49 PM
no mate i was takeing thexxxxxxxxxxxx. yeah cfs3 is the worst fs going but come on is this wot u expected..


no dint think so

look i have fb ace all that and i just thought and hoped this will be a hole new game but,lets be honest about it it aint is it!!

Slammin_
10-22-2004, 04:52 PM
You said:
"i hope patches will make it better, fix some bugs and improve the performance. i m not giving up on il2. i just wanted to say that while it is good and worth buying it has its flaws. some cosmetic, some rather grave imho."


And you totally lost me. What patch? The patch that magically doubles the ram on your system? You have not really mentioned any flaws so far. I think asking for a patch under those conditions is asking for a GOD mode cheat or something.

Really lost me here pal.

nRsberger
10-22-2004, 05:00 PM
yep i agree with u slamming il2 is a great game

but why oh why do they release pf when its not even finnished..sure it can be a great game an all

but not just yet

so why release it now



come on guys we were all expecting high things from this but in my eyes it just havent happend!

NegativeGee
10-22-2004, 05:08 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nRsberger:

come on guys we were all expecting high things from this but in my eyes it just havent happend! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well nRsberger, perhaps your expectations were too high?

As to PF being finished can you give me an example of any game in this series that was "finished" at release?

Slammin_
10-22-2004, 05:27 PM
Finished?

How can you call an add-on, to an add-on, to and add-on, to an add-on unfinished?

I guess the answer is:

KEEP ADDING ON!


YES!

Bearcat99
10-22-2004, 05:40 PM
It never ceases to amaze me what people will complain about. One guy is pissed because it had the stand alone option... another guy is pissed because there is so much water and the missions are so long... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Another guy is pissed because it has the add on option.
Its sad.... here you have the most conclusive WW2 flight sim franchise EVER!!! EVER!! I'm talking <span class="ev_code_RED">Eastern Front</span>, <span class="ev_code_WHITE">Western Front</span>,<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Pacific Theater</span>.. the only thing missing is a detailed set of <span class="ev_code_BROWN">Mediterranean</span> maps.. or maybe even a <span class="ev_code_GREEN">Spanish</span> map if you want to do a prequel kind of thing with the Spanish Civil War.. but even as is it is absolutely awesome .. a thing of sheer beauty to behold... and guys still complain. The sim has a full mission builder. Make your own short to the point missions exactly as you like them. Make no mistake that Uber D will be coming out with a PF upgrade to the UQMG.. in fact.. I wonder if 1C sent him an advance copy.... now THERE is someone who should have gotten an advance copy... Im tired and I just got in so Im ramblin.. but some of you guys kill me. LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE. There is no other consistant 3 front sim on the market.. not that I now of.... Geeeeze..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Just enjoy the sim man.....

Bull_dog_
10-22-2004, 05:58 PM
Anyone who doesn't like PF can send it to me... I'm waiting still...rather impatiently I might add http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Slammin_
10-22-2004, 06:14 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
It never ceases to amaze me what people will complain about. One guy is pissed because it had the stand alone option... another guy is pissed because there is so much water and the missions are so long... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Another guy is pissed because it has the add on option.
Its sad.... here you have the most conclusive WW2 flight sim franchise EVER!!! EVER!! I'm talking <span class="ev_code_RED">Eastern Front</span>, <span class="ev_code_WHITE">Western Front</span>,<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Pacific Theater</span>.. the only thing missing is a detailed set of <span class="ev_code_BROWN">Mediterranean</span> maps.. or maybe even a <span class="ev_code_GREEN">Spanish</span> map if you want to do a prequel kind of thing with the Spanish Civil War.. but even as is it is absolutely awesome .. a thing of sheer beauty to behold... and guys still complain. The sim has a full mission builder. Make your own short to the point missions exactly as you like them. Make no mistake that Uber D will be coming out with a PF upgrade to the UQMG.. in fact.. I wonder if 1C sent him an advance copy.... now THERE is someone who should have gotten an advance copy... Im tired and I just got in so Im ramblin.. but some of you guys kill me. LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE. There is no other consistant 3 front sim on the market.. not that I now of.... Geeeeze..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Just enjoy the sim man..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Seriously, that almost brought tears to my eyes.

I'm telling ya man, as much as I want to express the same, as well as try to get those interested ones, interested, alas, many were bore too late to even have a slight appreciation. Not knocking those guys, because IL-2 is modelled during an era that most High Schools don't even mention anymore, so, as it seems, those new here, get shocked.

QMB or FMB folks. Make your own missions. I too love the short maps, get in there and kill them mofo scenarios, but I also appreciate the patience and strategy required to navigate this so accurately modelled world too.

But you newbs bettah chill!

GT182
10-22-2004, 06:19 PM
Bearcat, you can please some of the people some of the time, but not all the people all the time.

It's us diehards that are please the most is the way I see it.

As said before the Pacific war wasn't the same as the ETO. Everyone wants realism. Now that they have it all they do is complain. I wonder if all the soldiers from WWII, all theaters of operations, complained it wasn't real enough? Some people will never be happy, no matter what. Even if a Zero or Corsair flew out of their monitor and shot em in the as*. Now wouldn't that be a hoot. LOL

Bearcat99
10-22-2004, 06:22 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slammin_:
Seriously, that almost brought tears to my eyes.

I'm telling ya man, as much as I want to express the same, as well as try to get those interested ones, interested, alas, many were bore too late to even have a slight appreciation. Not knocking those guys, because IL-2 is modelled during an era that most High Schools don't even mention anymore, so, as it seems, those new here, get shocked.

QMB or FMB folks. Make your own missions. I too love the short maps, get in there and kill them mofo scenarios, but I also appreciate the patience and strategy required to navigate this so accurately modelled world too.

But you newbs bettah chill! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are so right Slammin.... many of us are removed from this conflict by 1 or 2 generations.. but we have some 3rd & 4th removed generation cats in here who cant even remember no Nintendo. Hey.... I remember when cassetes were new. You say a 45 to most of these cats and unless thier parents or grand parents have them in the attic they wont have a clue. Some of them might think you are talking about a weapon http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif.

This sim is a thing of sheer magnificence. Revel in it. Treat it like a beautiful woman who.... hmmmmmmm come to think of it that may not be such a good metaphor either.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Treat it like something that is precious, like a house with a lot of rooms and each room has a lot of closets and each closet has a lot of drawers and each drawer holds something unique and one of a kind. Dont treat it like a game............. cause it is a fully functional interactive history lesson as well.

Blottogg
10-22-2004, 06:23 PM
Call me Karnak:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=26310365&m=1741033822&r=1741033822#1741033822

Seriously, it's just a game. I'm looking forward to flying the Pacific skies too, and know from previous efforts that PF won't be perfect. If you find a bug, submit a report (though going through the ReadMe first might be a good idea to avoid those "My Hellcat seat doesn't go up" or "I can't see the cool water with my TNT card" reports.) If you're really disappointed with PF to the point of contemplating suicide (or homicide) sent it to one of us who doesn't have it.

Finally (for now at least), I'm reminded of the words of William Shatner on SNL a few years ago... "I've been coming to these things for years, and looking out at all of your faces, one thought keeps coming to mind. Get a life, people! You've taken something that was an interesting diversion for a few years, and you've turned it into a farce!"

edited link

BuzzU
10-22-2004, 06:28 PM
I must be too easy to please. I've liked IL2 and all the addon/expansions from day one. The only thing I whine about is all the **** whiners.

Bearcat99
10-22-2004, 06:28 PM
I disagree with you... maybe for you it is "just a game" but for me it is a tool, for relieving stress, having fun, a common interest to share with friends,an inspiration to learn more about things that interest me in a way that I might not have thought of before... it's more than just an interesting diversion. Its something that I still enjoy doing after 3 years...and for me.. for a piece of software that is saying something.

BTW Blot.. thats a nice post you made there in that link.

Chuck_Older
10-22-2004, 06:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by nRsberger:
well wot can i say!!!

madox or how ever u spell it,wot a dissapointment this is
1. whers all these bombers were suposed to have..

2.wots with flying like 2000 miles for there to be just haha let me say it FLAK and u die sort of thing

3.bugs bugs bugs but hey we all expect that but so many!!!!come on guys!!!

4. well i could go on an on an on

5.so u know wot ive refunded this game and im playing cfs3 lol

might as well just the same game init! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif Another Microsoft employee trolls the boards

adadaead
10-22-2004, 06:58 PM
To the aouthor of this discussion.

I don't have the PF right now (USA http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) but How dare you say the campaings are even worse. That not what all other people say from their first impression post. This one of the messages that was posted about PF first impression this is what he wrote of his offline campaing expiriense (note: this the original campaing that came with box, not community made):

posted Fri October 22 2004 16:51
You`ll also notice something else... the offline Campaign is actually a little more invovled eg

I`m flying the f4f Campaign - isn`t it funny that you have to paddle the pedals in, just like the I16, nearly crashed after taking off when that first happened - you don`t see that in the movies!

Anyway, I was doing a few rescue missions, not much happening, then we were assigned am INTERCEPT mission. Well, we flew around and found nothing so we went back to base.

Next mision we were told that the Japanese recon plane we missed had now alerted a major attack on our carriers. We scrambled to intercept and managed to send the enemy packing with only superficial damage to our carrier.

The next mission in the briefing, it called ME by my actual name and said we must find the carrier that attacked us in the last mission!

(Obviously it must have picked my name from the start up roster, but very cool touch!)

SeaFireLIV...

Here is another one:

Ok I am here reporting from Mickey Mouse world (isn't broadband from a hotel room great?).

As some of you know I got my PF from UBI soft today right before I left on vacation.

My first impressions:

I'm blown away by the small details that have been added to the off line campaigns. The voices in the breifing room, the new music. It's done very well. Another exmaple, you start a Peral harbor campaign in a P-40 flying for the US and your greeted by a blaring "scramble" horn. It's just cool the way it is done.

I am also happy to report that there are plenty interesting campaigns, more than I'll need for years of exploration (although no Flying Tiger campaign or P-38).


The install over my exsisting FB+AEP went very smooth.

The game simply rocks and it is everything we hoped it would be.

Mk2aw


Now how that is dissapointing. From listening to your post the newb would think that this game is worhtless peace of junk.
That is all from me.

VF-3Thunderboy
10-22-2004, 07:02 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>'The missions suck, ..Endless Water... bla bla bla... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1.Guadalcanal, Wildcats, Zeros, Betties, and your never more than 20 minutes to Henderson, for the most part.Tons of good F4F-4 WILDCAT history, most of it over the Canal!

2. Battle of Coral Sea- F4f Wildcats again, against Zeros, Vals, etc... Some guys flew CAP, so they were right over the ship

3.Baa Baa Black sheep VMF-214 Based on Vella, right up from Guadalcanal, RABAUL is 30 minutes away, and major stuff happened...

4. Marianas Turkey Shoot, Hellcats shot down over 400 incomming Japs, not too far from the boats...

5. Etc.... Start the mission in the air, etc... Learn the dang mission builder... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

mike_espo
10-22-2004, 07:14 PM
I am. No ki 27 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Old_Canuck
10-22-2004, 09:25 PM
To the M$ employee - thanks for the joke about CFS3. We get a lot laughs over that one on these boards. NOW...

1. Buy all the IL2 products and patch em all up. Addon problem solved. Every one of them is worth 3 times what we paid for them;

2. Tired of looking at water water water? How about boats boats boats? They're all free and you can add as many of em as you want in mission builder. Have some going in circles -- some on collision courses -- get the picture? Lots of stuff in the water to look at now -- like the little rubber duckies in your bathtub right?

Blottogg
10-23-2004, 12:46 AM
BC, I didn't mean to belittle all the work Luthier, Oleg and the rest of the team have put into this, and will continue to contribute. I enjoy this whole family of sims, and am looking forward to PF, too. I'm just trying to keep a little perspective going. PF is only about two days out of the gate, and hasn't even reached all countries yet, and already the ignorant, arrogant whining is in full swing. I had sincerely tried to stem some of that with my previous thread, and I still want to help keep the community on an even keel, to use an appropriate analogy.

I used to whine nonstop too, mostly about the Ai. But I clued in to a couple of things during my whining:

1) Maddox games knows the limits of the Ai, FM and DM in the game engine better than anyone (especially me), and I'm pretty sure they're doing everything possible to wring the most lifelike performance out of it possible. I also believe they're close to this model's limit, and that we'll all have to accept a few "sim-isms", at least until the new engine makes its debut in BoB.

2) You can count the number of flight sim developers actually getting product to market on the fingers of one hand, and have at least a thumb left over. This is not a high-profit market flooded with competitors. Capitalism won't strictly work here, this is a labor of love. P*ssing in the developers Wheaties isn't going to help this situation. If you want to vent, get therapy. This isn't group. If you want to help:

- Read before you rant. I've already seen posts whining about the Hellcat's seat not moving, as well as other stuff covered in the ReadMe. To be fair, most posters are actually asking questions instead of ranting. Thanks, and hold on to that attitude, but read the ReadMe, too.

- If something in the sim doesn't make sense to you, ask before you call Oleg's parent's marital status into question. Despite what you may think, you don't know everything about WWII aircraft, and while you may know something 1C doesn't, after a couple of years here, my bet is usually riding on 1C. I can't count how many times someone has come in here arrogant and ignorant, trying to tell the rest of us how the world really works, only to backpedal faster than the student in the "Tai Quan Leap" skit after being presented with the relevant facts. You're much more likely to learn something that will help you enjoy PF if you ask "Why does the throttle cut out on my A6M2 during negative gee?" than to post "Oleg sux, the Zer0 shuld rox!!!"

- That being said, this sim obviously isn't perfect. If you find a bug, report it. Send it to il2beta@1c.ru, unless a newer address is included in the ReadMe. Include a track file, what happened, what should have happened, and what you were doing when it happened. Looking at other posts, the parafrags on the A-20, and Ai lawn-darting in the mountains are two examples of things that probably need to be looked at.

If you come here with attitude, you stand a good chance of p*ssing Oleg off enough that a legitimate problem may not be solved for years, if ever (muzzle flash and 190 gunsight, anyone?) Like everyone else here, he's a person, not a disembodied text file. You don't have to suck-up, but show the same courtesy you would if you were talking in person. If you behave like you were raised by wolves, you can expect to be ignored.

DonkeyPilot
10-23-2004, 01:46 AM
It's funny every time someone complains about the game he's called a newbie. Well I may be a newbie on this forum, but I'm no newbie to the Simulation Genre.
I play WW2 Flightssims since "Secret weapons of the Luftwaffe" (which really can't be called a Simulation, but that where other times) and I have played and own every WW2 Flightsim since then.

Calm down guys. Everyone has his own oppinion, and most people here do enjoy the game but also see the flaws it has (I can overlook over the most). There's no problem with that.
Though it is a little silly to complain about all the water. After all it is the Pacific Theatre.

I just wish I could accelerate the Game from time to time a bit faster.
So I ask again, why would there be a problem to have a 16x or 32x time acceleration? No one have to use it. It would be an added feature and the posibility to use it would improve the game.
And please not again answers like "just make your own short missions" (not very constructive). There are people who would like to play the campaign too, even though they don't have that much time for playing PC Games anymore.

And people, I wouldn't change the Game until the first patch arrives (which will be very soon).
Press here (http://friendship.icq.com/friendship/pages/browse_page_18981.php) to chill out!

Try the others too. Quite fun! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

StudUK
10-23-2004, 01:59 AM
Have to fully agree with the points made in the first post

Utterly DISAPPOINTED http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Blottogg
10-23-2004, 02:21 AM
DonkeyPilot, I understand the desire for 16x or 32x time compression, but I think that the problem is that even during time compression, the sim is still running all the Ai aircraft and combat. It sounds like they've added a little faster compression by dropping the graphics calculations altogether, but there is a limit to how fast you can speed the sim up while still crunching all the Ai, (simplified Ai) FM, and DM numbers. Like I said, I think we're starting to get to the limits of this sim engine. Hopefully the BoB engine will be able to cut off those calculations for the boring portions of the player's flight (BoB flights are only one hour or so, but the engine will hopefully find additional life in other sims), and pick them up again with them all synchronized properly. Right now the Il-2/FB/AEP/PF engine apparently cannot.

e5kimo
10-23-2004, 02:29 AM
i am not complaining about the water. (as if i was not aware of the pacific and its size)
what i do complain about however is that some maps are unnecessarily big. at least for some of the maps there is an online version but not for all which is a let down. i do complain about the fact that it seems little thought has gone into how this product was compiled.
i find it bizarre that it is hinted i wouldnt know what i am talking about, that i would be too far removed from what happened back then.
my family were refugees during the war. both grandfathers were wounded, one was held for years as prisoner of war. i am quite sure i know a fair bit, although admittedly i know very little about what is the original paintscheme of hartmanns plane or how many planes the merkins shot down. i ll gladly leave that to the historical pea counters and bureaucrats.
as result of the second world war i was blessed to grow up in a culture that promoted freedom of speech and discussion. something that i often find missing around this place.

critique is seen by some around here as a sacrilege and il2 as the holy grail. this suggests that some of you might be loosing their grip on reality.
i could slap myself for making the initial post at all and while i have resolved to further help people who have problems with this GAME, i will no longer give my opinion on anything GAME related.
i find that my money was worth spent but my input was wasted. make of it what you want.

by the way , chuck_older , please check your pm for an appology.

and to adadaead, i DARE say it how i see it.

VFA-195 Snacky
10-23-2004, 02:42 AM
Well at least it's not us Americans complaining because we don't have it yet right?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
It never ceases to amaze me what people will complain about. One guy is pissed because it had the stand alone option... another guy is pissed because there is so much water and the missions are so long... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Another guy is pissed because it has the add on option.
Its sad.... here you have the most conclusive WW2 flight sim franchise EVER!!! EVER!! I'm talking <span class="ev_code_RED">Eastern Front</span>, <span class="ev_code_WHITE">Western Front</span>,<span class="ev_code_BLUE">Pacific Theater</span>.. the only thing missing is a detailed set of <span class="ev_code_BROWN">Mediterranean</span> maps.. or maybe even a <span class="ev_code_GREEN">Spanish</span> map if you want to do a prequel kind of thing with the Spanish Civil War.. but even as is it is absolutely awesome .. a thing of sheer beauty to behold... and guys still complain. The sim has a full mission builder. Make your own short to the point missions exactly as you like them. Make no mistake that Uber D will be coming out with a PF upgrade to the UQMG.. in fact.. I wonder if 1C sent him an advance copy.... now THERE is someone who should have gotten an advance copy... Im tired and I just got in so Im ramblin.. but some of you guys kill me. LOOK AT WHAT YOU HAVE. There is no other consistant 3 front sim on the market.. not that I now of.... Geeeeze..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Just enjoy the sim man..... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

TAGERT.
10-23-2004, 03:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by e5kimo:
now flame away. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Not what you expected? Didnt turn out as you planned? Well.. Now you know how your parents feel.. Flameie enough? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Invader88
10-23-2004, 03:57 AM
i wqonder what the ******* problem is...
there is this time skip function that allows you to skip the boring part. if it stutters...well that isn't PF fault,is it?!
so where's the problem

Haele
10-23-2004, 04:10 AM
"i wqonder what the ******* problem is...
there is this time skip function that allows you to skip the boring part. if it stutters...well that isn't PF fault,is it?!
so where's the problem"

The time skip function, for me at least, still leaves me looking at a black screen for anything between 10 and 30 minutes in a mission. I believe this is one complaint this chap is trying to put across, although in a rather ineloquent manner. Sitting and twiddling your thumbs isn't something some people have time/patience for perhaps?

DonkeyPilot
10-23-2004, 06:13 AM
@Blottogg

I guess you're right. I just hope a patch will maybe add faster acceleration, but I'm not counting on it.
It's just those "fly shorter missions" or "buy a new game" answers that got a little on my nerves.
I have fun with the game, but I have my issues with it.

@e5skimo

I didn't meant you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DuxCorvan
10-23-2004, 06:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bearcat99:
You are so right Slammin.... many of us are removed from this conflict by 1 or 2 generations.. but we have some 3rd & 4th removed generation cats in here who cant even remember no Nintendo. Hey.... I remember when _cassetes_ were new. You say a 45 to most of these cats and unless thier parents or grand parents have them in the attic they wont have a clue. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know what you mean... I remember watching my first CD Audio ever, and wondering how could it be to have an hour of music inside that round plastic mirror... looked like Sci-Fi to me.

Some years later, I was finishing my career in laws and played Battlehawks 1942 in an AT 80286, and man, I was happy as a pig in a stay.

My dad was in love with WW2 planes, and had the house full of model kits. He was just captivated as a child by SWOTL and AOTP.

We ourselves have been spoiled by years of unlimited progress in software. But the younger are even worst, they die if their mobile phone can't make photos, man, when he was thirty, my grampa had to walk three kms. to make a call in the only public phonebox in his little village. He had been an infantry ensign during SCW, and I remember him looking at higienic paper as a luxury good.

We don't know what we have.

TAGERT.
10-23-2004, 09:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
We ourselves have been spoiled by years of unlimited progress in software. But the younger are even worst, they die if their mobile phone can't make photos, man <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What do you mean this thing dont take pictures?

http://www.tvofyourlife.com/images/dicktracypic.jpg

Kind of puts it into prespective... I can remember as a kid thinking Boy Oh Boy.. A wrist radio! How Neato! Now days I just want to slap the guy standing on the corner who is looking at me and talking... And when I ask "Are you talking to me?" He turns his head to the side and points at his hands free head set... Then gives me the stink eye like I should have known better.

deathhamster
10-23-2004, 10:12 AM
I am a casual gamer and also at the same time a big history fan, I accepted that when I bought this game missions would be 90% boredom and 10% shear adrenalin action. I learnt this through playing iL2 and then FB so I was prepared for it but still as a casual gamer I skip the boring bits and get straight to the action. There are some things that really get me however. stuff like the lack of single player missions, the missing US battleships in the pearl harbour missions (eat that realism buffs, how realistic can this game be if you don't even have the proper ships in it), the lack of torpedo bombers because I had so much fun blowing up ships in my iL2-T in FB.

Is it ok to turn round and say to people like me who have just forked out 34 on a game, don't worry about all the missing bits and pieces we're going to release loads of patches with all the stuff we couldn't squeeze in to 2 cds. These are not free patches for me, I only have a 56k connection and some of these patches can be like 100Mb and will take me hours to download which costs me money. This however has been the situation since FB.

the other thing that really gets me is the number of key functions that have to be programmed. I have no iea which keys are best for which functions and so i end up with a mess of keys all over the place, is it too much to ask for oleg and his team to help out us casual gamers by giving us a fully programmed list of key functions with the option for those veteran gamers to rebind the keys the way they prefer.

NIGHTBARON
10-23-2004, 10:29 AM
Hello,

Well, Hamster... if they do put the complete battle ship row plus all the AA gun etc etc, Then You will def hear from the same bunch about how unfair this sim is... with all the flak etc etc, ye know its the old routine "we want action and action hero should not get killed" thinggy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But I do agree with You about there should be more to the game (should have packed it into dvd)

Regards,

BlackPhenix
10-23-2004, 11:07 AM
Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

You woulda made Il-2 yourself if you knew how.

You shoulda majored in computer programming and engineering so you coulda made your own sim that approaches the level of this one.

Oh yeah, but you are just a poor consumer burned by the greedy Oleg and crew. Gimmie a break Caveat Emptor! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

owlwatcher
10-23-2004, 11:10 AM
Quote from Bear
"You are so right Slammin.... many of us are removed from this conflict by 1 or 2 generations.. but we have some 3rd & 4th removed generation cats in here who cant even remember no Nintendo. Hey.... I remember when cassetes were new. You say a 45 to most of these cats and unless thier parents or grand parents have them in the attic they wont have a clue. Some of them might think you are talking about a weapon .

This sim is a thing of sheer magnificence. Revel in it. Treat it like a beautiful woman who.... hmmmmmmm come to think of it that may not be such a good metaphor either.. Treat it like something that is precious, like a house with a lot of rooms and each room has a lot of closets and each closet has a lot of drawers and each drawer holds something unique and one of a kind. Dont treat it like a game............. cause it is a fully functional interactive history lesson as well."

Some old man thoughts and noises

Being only 1 generation out. Got a good laugh at this.
Remenbering 8 tracks
Going to store and the tube testing machines (for TV)
Remember getting first color TV
Commadore 64 loading game off of cassetes takes 45 minutes (to load).Paid 300 dollars for addon cassete player
Pong was high tech
Calculators are in the stores only 300-400 dollars. Way cool
We have come along way baby.

Spent my youth making model planes,ships and tanks stopped when good glue was taken off the market and some one stole my last tube.
Board games where I had to make the american pieces to play the US side. Only russians and germans came with the game.
Then to the books . Most likly have read or owned at one time or another 1000 or more.
Might have been lucky here. I knew of the black contribution and there fighter units, Red Ball express, dock worker strikes on the west coast. and the relief Battilions of the IJ war machine. It was all there to read and access if you looked.
Of course no one said any thing or taught you in school any of these things.
Now they make head lines.

Can't forget when I first Got hooked up to the internet and my first real computer. Used MSN and was arguing about my bill (way to many hours). I defended my time as saying it was all spent trying to down load all the software to correct all the problems. Never charged me for any thing the first 3 months.
Still have it and runs real good. Use it for a server now.
166 Intel 24 ram, 2mb video card, SCSI 1 gig HD and 2x CD,win 95. Of course was upgraded;
166 ,96 ram,16 mb video card , 4.3 HD , Jazz drive, 4x/6x CDR.

Been waiting along time for the games to do the things they do. Been a dream come true for me.
Been real lucky with Olegs stuff, seen so many games fold and disapper.

"This sim is a thing of sheer magnificence. Revel in it. Treat it like a beautiful woman who.... hmmmmmmm come to think of it that may not be such a good metaphor either.."

Bad , Bad ,metaphor.
The Sims might be around longer then any of the women in my life. Like to upgrade .

The game has always been ahead of the hardware and you had to grow with it.
As to bugs in the software and it not playing to some ones standards.
Whine alot... and wait for a patch.

Bearcat99
10-23-2004, 06:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deathhamster:
I am a casual gamer and also at the same time a big history fan, I accepted that when I bought this game missions would be 90% boredom and 10% shear adrenalin action. I learnt this through playing iL2 and then FB so I was prepared for it but still as a casual gamer I skip the boring bits and get straight to the action. There are some things that really get me however. stuff like the lack of single player missions, the missing US battleships in the pearl harbour missions (eat that realism buffs, how realistic can this game be if you don't even have the proper ships in it), the lack of torpedo bombers because I had so much fun blowing up ships in my iL2-T in FB.

Is it ok to turn round and say to people like me who have just forked out 34 on a game, don't worry about all the missing bits and pieces we're going to release loads of patches with all the stuff we couldn't squeeze in to 2 cds. These are not free patches for me, I only have a 56k connection and some of these patches can be like 100Mb and will take me hours to download which costs me money. This however has been the situation since FB.

the other thing that really gets me is the number of key functions that have to be programmed. I have no iea which keys are best for which functions and so i end up with a mess of keys all over the place, is it too much to ask for oleg and his team to help out us casual gamers by giving us a fully programmed list of key functions with the option for those veteran gamers to rebind the keys the way they prefer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Casual gamer huh...... we'll see about THA....LMAO.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I feel you on the Battleship thing but once again.... patience is the key. 1C has proven time and time again that they will come through. Look at the muzzle flash thing and the metric/English speedbar. Both of thise have been issues since FB was an idea that was being talked about in the old PL. Im sure they are coming. If they put all the stuff that is in all the patches the sim probably would have either cost a tad more (even if for no other reason it would have been a 3 CD product) or taken longer to bring out. Either one would have sent the already spoiled rotten community over the edge. As far as your 56K... Cant help you there... sounds like a personal issue.... one redeeming feature is that PC PIlot and Computer Pilot magazines routinely put patches and upgrades on thier CDS and both mags are well worth the purchase price in thier own right. Or you could consider just asking someone here to send you the updates on a CD.... It isn't unheard of... this community is full of arrogant jerks for sure but it's also full of some of the nicest, most knowlegeable, friendly, courteous and helpful folks you would ever want to meet and I am willing to wager that if you made a post saying "I'm on dial up can someone send me the patches.." you would have at least 5 or 6 responses within as many minutes depending on the time of day and more than that by the end of the day. As far as that list of key functions..... it is on each and every disk as far as I know. I dont know if there is one in PF but there was one in IL2 & FB. It isnt hard to make. I also would suggest that you spend a bit more money to either get an X45 or a Nistromo Gamepad or some additional input device. The sim demands it to reach its full potential. Besides if that isnt in your future then you can program the keys to whatever you want.. just think about the commands you need. That is why I like having an X45. It can take all the functions in the sim and put them somewhere on the stick.


owlwatcher wrote:
Being only 1 generation out. Got a good laugh at this.
Remenbering 8 tracks
Going to store and the tube testing machines (for TV)
Remember getting first color TV
Commadore 64 loading game off of cassetes takes 45 minutes (to load).Paid 300 dollars for addon cassete player
Pong was high tech
Calculators are in the stores only 300-400 dollars. Way cool
We have come along way baby.

Spent my youth making model planes,ships and tanks stopped when good glue was taken off the market and some one stole my last tube.
Board games where I had to make the american pieces to play the US side. Only russians and germans came with the game.
Then to the books . Most likly have read or owned at one time or another 1000 or more.
Might have been lucky here. I knew of the black contribution and there fighter units, Red Ball express, dock worker strikes on the west coast. and the relief Battilions of the IJ war machine. It was all there to read and access if you looked.
Of course no one said any thing or taught you in school any of these things.
Now they make head lines.

Can't forget when I first Got hooked up to the internet and my first real computer. Used MSN and was arguing about my bill (way to many hours). I defended my time as saying it was all spent trying to down load all the software to correct all the problems. Never charged me for any thing the first 3 months.
Still have it and runs real good. Use it for a server now.
166 Intel 24 ram, 2mb video card, SCSI 1 gig HD and 2x CD,win 95. Of course was upgraded;
166 ,96 ram,16 mb video card , 4.3 HD , Jazz drive, 4x/6x CDR.

Been waiting along time for the games to do the things they do. Been a dream come true for me.
Been real lucky with Olegs stuff, seen so many games fold and disapper.

"This sim is a thing of sheer magnificence. Revel in it. Treat it like a beautiful woman who.... hmmmmmmm come to think of it that may not be such a good metaphor either.."

Bad , Bad ,metaphor.
The Sims might be around longer then any of the women in my life. Like to upgrade .

The game has always been ahead of the hardware and you had to grow with it.
As to bugs in the software and it not playing to some ones standards.
Whine alot... and wait for a patch.

I'm surely feelin you.....My stepdad was on a desroyer escort that got hit by a U-boat torpedo in the Atlantic.. he survived.. he was in the Coast Gaurd. I reember all that. Do you remember that RBG piece of plastic that people used to put over thier TVs? Poor people's color TV. LMAO... 12 O'Clock High, The Rat Patrol,Combat...... pong..... LOL... I can recall it being state of the art. I have seen so much stuff from Popular Science and Popular mechanics become a reality. The point of these two seasoned guys is this... be grateful for what you have and consider that there is still nothing better. If FB/AEP/PF had been sold as one 6 CD product for $120 would it be worth it? I think so. I have spent hundres on things oveer the years that are long gone but this stuff here? Every day for at least 15 minutes. Be patient and wait for the patch.. it isnt like this is MS or something.

Bluedog72
10-25-2004, 01:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by sukebeboy:
E5kimo

Thank you for the courage of yor convictions.
I agree with you on a great many points. This game is lacking and were I to purchase it as a stand alone product, I would be very disappointed.

Mr. Maddox has promised a patch that will be released concurrent with the N American release of PF. I only hope that for once he isn't making empty promises and that the D/GEN will be fixed.

Like you, I am a fan of the game and it pains me to see such glaring errors as are currently present. It take courage to rail against popular opinion such as the like prevalent here on the IL2 boards.

I thin if we continue to make constructive criticism and point out what could be fixed without whining that we have a very good chance of realizing what could be a superlative sim.

Don't let the rants of the ignorant fanboys dissuade you.

Sukebeboy

(please excuse any errors in my English grammar. your eloquent statement and my reply required a much stonger level of grammar than I am used to typing.) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sukebeboy,

There is absolutely no need to apologise for your English language skills, they far surpass those of many people who's first and only language is English.

&lt;S&gt;

fushihara
10-25-2004, 04:20 PM
I'm disappointed that PF doesn't cover Solomon Islands but CFS2 does.

Kan-ichiro Fushihara

Saburo_0
10-25-2004, 11:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by deathhamster:
I am a casual gamer and also at the same time a big history fan, I accepted that when I bought this game missions would be 90% boredom and 10% shear adrenalin action. I learnt this through playing iL2 and then FB so I was prepared for it but still as a casual gamer I skip the boring bits and get straight to the action. There are some things that really get me however. stuff like the lack of single player missions, the missing US battleships in the pearl harbour missions (eat that realism buffs, how realistic can this game be if you don't even have the proper ships in it), the lack of torpedo bombers because I had so much fun blowing up ships in my iL2-T in FB.

Is it ok to turn round and say to people like me who have just forked out 34 on a game, don't worry about all the missing bits and pieces we're going to release loads of patches with all the stuff we couldn't squeeze in to 2 cds. These are not free patches for me, I only have a 56k connection and some of these patches can be like 100Mb and will take me hours to download which costs me money. This however has been the situation since FB.

the other thing that really gets me is the number of key functions that have to be programmed. I have no iea which keys are best for which functions and so i end up with a mess of keys all over the place, is it too much to ask for oleg and his team to help out us casual gamers by giving us a fully programmed list of key functions with the option for those veteran gamers to rebind the keys the way they prefer. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

All good points there deathhamster. Afraid alot of people here aren't too sympathetic somtimes , but as Bearcat says there are some awfully nice ones around too. Asking for someone to copy the patch -when it comes out - to a cd for you may be the best way to go. Less than ideal for sure, but what can we do.

Oh, just an idea on key bindings.
I set INSERT=increase prop-pitch
DELETE= decrease prop-pitch
Home= increase mixture
END= decrease mixture
PAGE UP=Supercharger next stage
PAGE DOWN= Supercharger previous stage.
All engine controls in one little area. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Joystick buttons are mostly for views.
Hat switch & 1 button set to look straight up,
means I can get every view by holding the button & moving the hat switch.
Others are set to Wide, Normal, & zoomed view.
i also have one for toggle gunsight-- SHIFT+F1 is the default.

Would be nice to see these sims made more accessible & see more people develop an interest in them!

Happy Flying!

P.Noomen
10-26-2004, 10:16 AM
I like this addon....my computer has more problems with it. Online I make terrible accidents due to stuttering. I have a standard millenium edition so I have to expand some more gigs. Since I was a little kid I was interested in old warplanes. I collected many books and the last year some dvd's (I'm not rich so I go for length versus prize'; btw I bought Pacific Fighters at Free record shop in Holland and paid fourty euro's!!)but IL-2 and follow- ups are a dream come true. I thinks Oleg and his team are really making a dream coming closer. Make your own missions and make your own dreams. Use the mission builder and your imagination. an finish them offhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

BSR_RuGGBuTT
10-26-2004, 12:28 PM
Here are my gripes w/PF:

When the bad men are trying to shoot me down I give the stick a nice hard yank and next thing I know I'm spinning into the ocean. That needs to be fixed ASAP. Then there's the damage to your plane when it hits the water. I mean come on, we've all dived into a pool. Did any of your limbs come flying off? Metal planes are stronger than flesh and bone. Then there's this prop pitch thing. Who thought that was a good idea? "Hey, lets shift the gears in the prop, we can get the NASCAR group of people interested in the game". The bullet thing is really upsetting me. In the american planes there was plenty of armor, how come my wing keeps coming off w/a few hits from the small caliber japanese guns? Seems to me the damage is overmodeled. And why is the muzzle flash so small? Did a bunch of you guys cry about it being too big? I'd like to be able to see muzzle flash from the bad guys at 9 nautical miles.

Seems to me that Oleg needs to patch all the fubared stuff in this game ASAP.



Sorry, I couldn't help myself..... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TacticalYak3
10-26-2004, 01:07 PM
What is it about this game that makes the same folks who would normally argue about freedom of choice turn around attack anyone who wishes to play PF (or IL-2/AEP) a certain way?

By having game settings that allow for an improved time acceleration would theaten those who prefer not to use it how exactly? Did you guys buy these other folks' games, and, therefore, they now have no opportunity to voice their concerns as consumers?

We all knew there would be longer flight paths over endless water. Oleg must have also figured some fathers/busy students/etc wouldn't have the opportunity to fly for an hour or more in transit, hence they developed some new time acceleration features. What some are saying is they don't work or appear inadequate.

Sorry that is inappropriate or takes away from your gaming experience (oops sorry for using that dirty word game because this apparently isn't a game - though it installs and appears just like one).

FYI - Personally I have found enjoyment with both short and long flights paths, but generally prefer to see the action sooner than later. I also like hitting refly after being killed, heck I even hit pause when I need a bathroom break instead of using a "relief hose." So un-sim of me I know. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif