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XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 01:58 AM
Can it be done?

It would add Deepness to the game. it would be great fun.

Who does not want this functionality?



--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 01:58 AM
Can it be done?

It would add Deepness to the game. it would be great fun.

Who does not want this functionality?



--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 03:07 AM
Have your ever heard of VOW? its vitual online war and thats what its all about.. pretty cool actually.. im not sure of the actual site but do a search on it.. :-)

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 04:22 AM
ya vow is cool but it is not Dynamic campaign.

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 07:43 AM
Lowengrins DCG can be used online. So you can have your dynamic campaign with computer generated missions.
But if you want a campaign that is driven by the ground war, has each side make its own half of the mission and has a complete killboard, tracks how many planes each side has left, throws in Amphibious landings, paratroopers, tracks each sides supply and has an in depth ground combat system all in an open-ended campaign where either side can win, then Iron Skies is the online war for you.
It's about immersion, not stats.

<img src=http://www.simops.com/graphics/wildcard.gif>

IRON SKIES
As real as you want it to be.

XyZspineZyX
07-24-2003, 10:45 AM
Pentallion wrote:
- Lowengrins DCG can be used online. So you can have
- your dynamic campaign with computer generated
- missions.

Aha, this I have to look in to.

- But if you want a campaign that is driven by the
- ground war, has each side make its own half of the
- mission and has a complete killboard, tracks how
- many planes each side has left, throws in Amphibious
- landings, paratroopers, tracks each sides supply and
- has an in depth ground combat system all in an
- open-ended campaign where either side can win, then
- Iron Skies is the online war for you.
- It's about immersion, not stats.

Well, The FB campaign generator isnt that complex is it?

Implement dynamic campaigns online shouldnt be so difficult, All the pieces are there.

Does anyone know if there is any supersecret reason or programming problem that have caused this option to not be included yet?

--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:48 PM
I too wish to play dynamic campaigns online with friends (and offline on LANs). I also wish to play user-defined quick coop missions with friends ala the Quick Mission Builder.

Regrettably, with all due respect to the author of DCG, DCG doesn`t cut it. It seems capable and there is a lot of work there, but you still can`t play a dynamic campaign in coop, nor can you play quick missions in coop, nor are any of the file organizations intuitive. If one has to spend time learning file structures and organizations for a game, then its not intuitive. Its a database structure, not a game.

Again, such things should be an official embedded part of the game code - we *need* this sort of functionality. Many times all a friend and I wish to do is hop into planes of our choice, take off and shoot down some bombers (or try). This simple straightforward desire is impossible at the moment. Other times we want to recapture the old EF2000 coop campaign, when we all have the time to do so and the mindset to do so.

As is the cicrumstance demands we cobble together bits of code from here and there in the hopes of being able to do the very simple things we wish to do. Please developers, incorporate *full* coop/skirmish & coop campaign support into TFB asap.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:52 AM
WarlokLord wrote:
- I too wish to play dynamic campaigns online with
- friends (and offline on LANs). I also wish to play
- user-defined quick coop missions with friends ala
- the Quick Mission Builder.

Yup, I posted earlier a wishlist where I also suggested that quick missions should be playable online.

- Regrettably, with all due respect to the author of
- DCG, DCG doesn`t cut it. It seems capable and there
- is a lot of work there, but you still can`t play a
- dynamic campaign in coop, nor can you play quick
- missions in coop, nor are any of the file
- organizations intuitive. If one has to spend time
- learning file structures and organizations for a
- game, then its not intuitive. Its a database
- structure, not a game.

Yup, I have messed around with that, it seems a lot to get into. Hard to get a good oversight and get started.

I got the impression that one could create single co-op missions with that program, is that not the case?

- Again, such things should be an official embedded
- part of the game code - we *need* this sort of
- functionality. Many times all a friend and I wish to
- do is hop into planes of our choice, take off and
- shoot down some bombers (or try). This simple
- straightforward desire is impossible at the moment.
- Other times we want to recapture the old EF2000 coop
- campaign, when we all have the time to do so and the
- mindset to do so.

Yes, it is remarkable, that this feature who would create so impossibly much, fun playing with comrades and friends are not implemented.

It would easily increase the currrent playability of the game with over 100%, so it is very strange why they havent implemented it.

It would create longevity for the game.

The player who hosts the game is also the one holding all the squadronfiles and stuff. The other players join his server and can choose what role they want in the squadron, wingman or gunner. or the hoster can choose that for the other players when he sets it up and they then connect.

Think how fun it would be for a bunch of friends to fly a bombplane together.

(An extra option that could be added, is unlimited ammo for the gunner(s).)

- As is the cicrumstance demands we cobble together
- bits of code from here and there in the hopes of
- being able to do the very simple things we wish to
- do. Please developers, incorporate *full*
- coop/skirmish & coop campaign support into TFB asap.

I feel the pain.

Can any developer or other knowledgeable person tell us why this feature who would do so much for the game is not implemented?

Are there unsolvable technical obstacles?



--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 02:58 AM
There is enough mechanism built into the game to do that. There are even online wars that use generator programs that read mission outputs to make the next one. The biggest drag is that you have to break the connect between each mission.

I had written to Starshoy and others asking to influence the development of FB to allow for running multiple coop missions through a 3rd party generator. It would require very little. There were and maybe are console commands to load prepared missions by the host machine. All that is needed is for the log file to be closed by IL2/FB to allow a 3rd party program to read it, a console command to run a named generator program (which could be where the log file closing would take place), and when the newly generated mission is loaded, the log file is opened back up for appending to. The 3rd party program could empty the log or add a marker, it would only matter to the generator and not to IL2/FB.

For all I know, every bit of this and more is already in FB. I have TRIED to get complete information and get directed only to how-to's on the in-game generator when I know very well there was more and simpler. Perhaps Starshoy did not understand what I asked for. The answers are not in any readme either. It is like only a closed group has access and the rest of us do the best we can with what little we get.

Lowengrin of JG1 has the best freely distributed generator out and you may well be able to use it to achieve your ends but still must break the connect between missions.

http://members.shaw.ca/lowengrin/

And if you run into Johan Nilsson there in Sweden, tell him his old wingmate Max says 'Hi' and I forget the drunken something nickname he sometimes used. Ask him how Geier is doing. And Arvid!


Neal

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 03:02 AM
Regrettably DCG doesn`t allow an individual player to pick their own plane - whatever aircraft is chosen as the default aircraft for the human players is the aircraft that all human players must have. Each player ought to have their choice, ideally.

And thats another aspect of the DCG surrogate for real coop Quick Mission support: if we find we want perhaps 1 or 2 of bomber type X to instead be bomber type Y, we must generate an entirely new mission. At the profoundly likely risk of dispensing with the entirety of the mission we just generated (*everything* is generated anew). With the Quick Mission interface, this would be as simple as a drop-down menu click.

I still have to fiddle with it some more and exhaust the Coop generation scheme, but I wish I didn`t have to at all... . It still seems like alot of unnecessary cryptography & research.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:10 PM
WarlokLord wrote:
- Regrettably DCG doesn`t allow an individual player
- to pick their own plane - whatever aircraft is
- chosen as the default aircraft for the human players
- is the aircraft that all human players must have.
- Each player ought to have their choice, ideally.


No, in real life, you flew with what your squadron flew. You don't get the choice of picking a different plane from what your squadron flew. That is how FB, a flight "simulation" is set up for a single and coop missions and that is what DCG can use in its coop and single mission format. Now if players want to fly different aircraft, then make more squadrons "active" in the DCG Squadron Editor by checking off the active box for each squadron. Of course, the more squadrons added, the more CPU power is needed plus you are flying separate missions from the other players. You may want to try DCG and FBDaemon together for a dogfight server. You "can" individually pick whatever planes are made available by the host. I doubt Oleg will change the structure of a squadron/flight in the sim for coop missions and that is what 3rd party developers have to work with.

- And thats another aspect of the DCG surrogate for
- real coop Quick Mission support: if we find we want
- perhaps 1 or 2 of bomber type X to instead be bomber
- type Y, we must generate an entirely new mission. At
- the profoundly likely risk of dispensing with the
- entirety of the mission we just generated
- (*everything* is generated anew). With the Quick
- Mission interface, this would be as simple as a
- drop-down menu click.

All this requires a little up front thought before you hit the DCG "generate" button. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif It's a "THIRD" party program. There is no "direct" tie-in between FB and DCG. DCG places it's mission information inside FB for FB to use, if you decide to use it. So you will have to regenerate stuff if you mess up the first time. You might have the option to manually edit the DCG mision file placed in the FB coop or single mission folder before you run FB but I have never investigated that.

-
- I still have to fiddle with it some more and exhaust
- the Coop generation scheme, but I wish I didn`t have
- to at all... . It still seems like alot of
- unnecessary cryptography & research.
-


Can't help you there much. I had to do the same thing myself but I found it to be fun but that is just me. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif All I can say is with a little bit of reading, DCG is ready to use from the start. Just generate a mission and play in FB as a single mission, coop mission or dogfight mission. Not much more simple than that as Paul has create plenty of map campaigns to play. Just pick the one you want. If you want to start getting fancy and add this or change that, yes, then it will start to become more complicated but DCG still takes a LOT of the work out of it just by using the editors. Other than that, maybe the next flight sim will have exactly what you and some of the others are looking for.




Tailspin
Tailspin's Tales
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Tailspin/index.htm

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 04:16 PM
fromsweden wrote:
- Can it be done?
-
- It would add Deepness to the game. it would be great
- fun.
-
- Who does not want this functionality?
-
-
-
-
---
- "Too late ... No time."
- Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the
- supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on
- the outskirts of Paris.
-

If you are looking for something like Falcon 4.0 online dynamic campaign, the answer is "no". Closest thing you will get with FB is DCG and FBDaemon running together. Take the DCG Grand Campaign and run it with FBDaemon and that could last a long time. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

DCG coop missions have to have a live host available to find out when everyone has landed and then generate the next coop mission in a campaign.

Tailspin
Tailspin's Tales
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/Tailspin/index.htm

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:02 PM
Tailspin2 wrote:

-
- If you are looking for something like Falcon 4.0
- online dynamic campaign, the answer is "no".

Yes, that much is clear, it is currently no feature like that in the game.

The big question, is Why?

I do not believe it would be hard to implement online dynamic campaigns.

Do you see a reason why this would be impossible or very hard to implement?

What are the reasons?

The best would be to hear oleg or some other developer input on this.

Think of the friends who want to buy a flightsimulator to play together, it is sad if they did not choose il-2 FB because they lacked multiplayer features.

- Closest thing you will get with FB is DCG and
- FBDaemon running together. Take the DCG Grand
- Campaign and run it with FBDaemon and that could
- last a long time.
-
- DCG coop missions have to have a live host available
- to find out when everyone has landed and then
- generate the next coop mission in a campaign.

Yes, I will have to do this, but theres a lot to get into, which takes time so I will not do it just right now.

DCG sure seems interesting.

--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 08:16 PM
Tailspin2 wrote:
-
- WarlokLord wrote:
-- Regrettably DCG doesn`t allow an individual player
-- to pick their own plane - whatever aircraft is
-- chosen as the default aircraft for the human players
-- is the aircraft that all human players must have.
-- Each player ought to have their choice, ideally.
-
-
- No, in real life, you flew with what your squadron
- flew. You don't get the choice of picking a
- different plane from what your squadron flew. That
- is how FB, a flight "simulation" is set up for a
- single and coop missions and that is what DCG can
- use in its coop and single mission format. Now if
- players want to fly different aircraft, then make
- more squadrons "active" in the DCG Squadron Editor
- by checking off the active box for each squadron.
- Of course, the more squadrons added, the more CPU
- power is needed plus you are flying separate
- missions from the other players. You may want to
- try DCG and FBDaemon together for a dogfight server.
- You "can" individually pick whatever planes are made
- available by the host. I doubt Oleg will change the
- structure of a squadron/flight in the sim for coop
- missions and that is what 3rd party developers have
- to work with.
-


Yes, in real life. This is a game though. In a dynamic campaign in this game (or any flight sim game) I accept flying with set aircraft at a particular point in time. When getting together with friends for a LAN event or when playing for an evening to have some fun I appreciate being able to choose my plane independently from a quick scenario. The Quick Mission builder allows you to choose your own plane no matter the rest of the parameters and *its* part of the official code - thats something we want, for those times when we don`t feel like flying a deep mission experience.

There are times when you just want to take that Me-262 up for a quick bomber kill. In coop.

That doesn`t at all mean they have to dispense with the normal mission structures...

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 12:38 AM
WarlokLord wrote:
-
-
- Yes, in real life. This is a game though. In a
- dynamic campaign in this game (or any flight sim
- game) I accept flying with set aircraft at a
- particular point in time. When getting together with
- friends for a LAN event or when playing for an
- evening to have some fun I appreciate being able to
- choose my plane independently from a quick scenario.
- The Quick Mission builder allows you to choose your
- own plane no matter the rest of the parameters and
- *its* part of the official code - thats something we
- want, for those times when we don`t feel like flying
- a deep mission experience.
-
- There are times when you just want to take that
- Me-262 up for a quick bomber kill. In coop.
-
- That doesn`t at all mean they have to dispense with
- the normal mission structures...

Yes, making the quick mission builder playable online seems easier than dynamic campaigns online.


These are easy features to include, the big question remains. Why not?


--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 02:19 AM
- When getting together with
- friends for a LAN event or when playing for an
- evening to have some fun I appreciate being able to
- choose my plane independently from a quick scenario.
- The Quick Mission builder allows you to choose your
- own plane no matter the rest of the parameters and
- *its* part of the official code - thats something we
- want, for those times when we don`t feel like flying
- a deep mission experience.
-
- There are times when you just want to take that
- Me-262 up for a quick bomber kill. In coop.
-
- That doesn`t at all mean they have to dispense with
- the normal mission structures...

It sounds like you or someone just needs to pre-build some single missions in the FMB with the planes you want and targets you want. Make em or get em, load em and play em! Nothing really hard about that! There's probably piles of missions up on sites that you can d/l and then change the planes in the FMB to suit.
With FMB 'in the code' I guess that the capability you want is there. If you don't want to see the routes, etc, then learn to edit the planes in the mission files. It's not rocket science or even airplane science. There's sites that explain it all and you need one small part to do that!


Neal

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 05:10 AM
S! All!

You guys need to take a look at Scorched Earth. We have a dynamic mission generator about 90% completed. We are still working on the code to route ground vehicles via roads (we are using user-defined waypoints for ground vehicles, so we need to make sure the vehicles stick to roads), we still need to write the code to bring damaged bridges and buildings forward and to allow for gradual repair, and we need to write code to allow vehicles to disembark from railheads, shipping ports, and airbases without running into each other (due to a bug in the game if you have lots of vehicles disembarking they crash into each other).

And best of all, we are releasing the Scorched Earth toolset to the community free of charge.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Scorched Earth on this thread - I recognize a few of the names. We haven't gone anywhere, and we haven't changed our focus. We are developing a fully dynamic coop war and releasing the program to manage it as freeware.

Scorched Earth miniwars will be starting within four weeks. These will have fully dynamic air campaigns with growing ground involvement. Right now I'm working on the web forms that will provide the user interface. These will be written entirely in .NET and will be nice and intuitive.

You can figure on having a fully dynamic online campaign engine available within a few more months, and you can participate in the beta project within a month. As we ramp-up for the full blown Scorched Earth we'll be needing people to help us run the servers for the war. Those who help will have access to the most updated versions of the RAF74 Dynamic Campaign System (which includes functionality as a parser, reporting engine, and mission generator).

Anyway, RAF74_Taipan and I have been working on this for about 2 years now, and we're getting pretty close to completion. Take a look at our site (which requires JAVA - available from www.sun.com (http://www.sun.com) if you don't have the Java Virtual Machine that Windows used to include). The picture of the DCS in my sig links to the warsite. Note that I haven't updated the warsite in a long time. Up until the past couple of weeks I've been working on the program rather than the website. I'm just now changing focus...

Once we start running our mini campaigns, we'll also release a beta 6 version of the DCS that will include the functionality already coded, and after that we'll be gearing up for the finished product.

Anyway, swing on by the Scorched Earth warsite. Our project has been a long time coming, but it's almost here.

RAF74_Wall-dog

<a href="http://www.doghousecomputing.com/scorchedearth">http://www.doghousecomputing.com/scorchedearth/images/parsersmall.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 05:29 AM
Walldog, would a person be able to use your program to create a mission that had specific target types in specific places? By this I mean, instead of using it to create a dynamic mission generator could you use it as sort of a mission builders assistant? Say I wanted to make a mission attacking armor in a specific location, use certain planes from a specific base, have several other specific missions flying and I didn't want to spend two hours in FMB making the mission. Could I plug in what I wanted into your program and have it make the mission for me?

<img src=http://www.simops.com/graphics/wildcard.gif>

IRON SKIES
As real as you want it to be.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 08:02 AM
WWMaxGunz wrote:
-
- It sounds like you or someone just needs to
- pre-build some single missions in the FMB with the
- planes you want and targets you want. Make em or
- get em, load em and play em! Nothing really hard
- about that! There's probably piles of missions up
- on sites that you can d/l and then change the planes
- in the FMB to suit.
- With FMB 'in the code' I guess that the capability
- you want is there. If you don't want to see the
- routes, etc, then learn to edit the planes in the
- mission files. It's not rocket science or even
- airplane science. There's sites that explain it all
- and you need one small part to do that!
-
-
- Neal
-
-
-


I understand your point, but it misses mine - some people don`t have time to fiddle. Fiddling time is finite, and as far as only games go, there are many other fiddlable things out there besides IL-2.

If gamers had to apply their own efforts to every little yearning on every product, we`d never get any gaming done. In fact, with enough 'fiddling' we`d all be coding our own games. We all have the freedom to craft missions in the mission editor (1 per aircraft variant per mission type, for a few gazillion...)... but not all of us have the freedom to craft missions in the mission editor.

Using the mission editor isn`t really a solution to this problem/missing multiplayer functionality.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 12:02 PM
S! Pentallion!

The way it's currently written, it will not make a mission from scratch. In fact, we are going to use the FMB to make the first mission for Scorched Earth - which will be an historically accurate reinactment of the start of the German/Russian hostilities. That's not to say that the functionality you are talking about couldn't be added, but it's not something that would assist in Scorched Earth and it wouldn't be core functionality toward running a dynamic campaign, so it's something that would have to be added after the core code was finished.

The DCS is designed to take a completed mission - whether built from Lowengrin's mission builder, Starshoy's, or the FMB (it has been thouroughly tested with all three of those) and then run a war as a series of missions happening after the first. You only need to build the first mission - the DCS makes all of the subsequent ones.



RAF74_Wall-dog

<a href="http://www.doghousecomputing.com/scorchedearth">http://www.doghousecomputing.com/scorchedearth/images/parsersmall.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 03:09 PM
WarlokLord wrote:
-
- I understand your point, but it misses mine - some
- people don`t have time to fiddle. Fiddling time is
- finite, and as far as only games go, there are many
- other fiddlable things out there besides IL-2.

You want to spend finite fiddling time or just none?

Yes, it is not as convenient as you want, as could be desired but it is not impossible or even that hard or time consuming as you seem to imagine.

To download a mission is some time just finding, yes. Once you find sources of missions it is easier/quicker. Only "problem" is when you want to select different planes.

To change the planes in FMB... maybe a whole 10 minutes if you are very slow and poking around. Maybe 1 minute if you are knowing what you want and how to see it.

To change planes with NotePad after you learn to do it and what the names are (1 hour, once ever?) is very quick, maybe 5 whole minutes shot out of your life.

To make missions in FMB can take longer or shorter depending on how much detail and care you take. To arrange an intercept and back once you practice is not going to take nearly as long as flying it. If you have 3 friends to fly with and each makes 1 mission then you each get 4x as much flying time for the one you made.

Those amounts of time are far less than flying time. You can do any of them while listening to music, watching TV or doing some other ordinary passive things. The "hard" part is a generally small learning curve.

Maybe you can request someone else to make custom missions?
Since the mission files are text files the contents could actually be posted right here as messages, would cutting and pasting the text into the right files and folders qualify as too much fiddling?

- If gamers had to apply their own efforts to every
- little yearning on every product, we`d never get any
- gaming done. In fact, with enough 'fiddling' we`d
- all be coding our own games.

You are so far off base there that it's ridiculous.

- We all have the freedom
- to craft missions in the mission editor (1 per
- aircraft variant per mission type, for a few
- gazillion...)... but not all of us have the freedom
- to craft missions in the mission editor.

In time you could have a library of missions. To do and save everything possible is ludicrous. Are you suggesting that is required ever? Do you need to do everything just to play anything?

If you have time to play for 30 minutes, you do not have time to make a simple mission in 10 minutes or less? If you have time to play IL2/FB for a year, you do not have time to learn the bare basics of the FMB -- even to only change planes in a mission you downloaded?

You have not tried to learn the FMB, have you? It is some huge and confusing task? Sturmovik Technika is closed unfortunately so maybe someone else can post a site with step by step help. EDIT: There is a Mission Builder Forum RIGHT HERE ON THE UBI SITE. You can't read there? Mission building is not a career to learn.

The thing is... you don't need to learn EVERYTHING to make simple, easy missions. Your missions don't need to have EVERYTHING in them. You only need to know ENOUGH to do what you want. Changing plane types with FMB or even NotePad is so quick and easy it's a crime to be at such a loss because you don't dare to try!

- Using the mission editor isn`t really a solution to
- this problem/missing multiplayer functionality.

None so blind as those who will not see. None so helpless as those who will not try. If you don't have the time for that then you should not be playing games or participating in forums at all! You have the time. Get up some courage and learn. It is easier than you think.


Neal




Message Edited on 07/28/0310:14AM by WWMaxGunz

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 04:00 PM
So maybe I might be wrong but all you lot want is a campaign generator sim. to the campaign generator which was used in airwarrior 3.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 09:21 PM
WWMaxGunz,

Back 'in the day' one could get around inadequate player control configuration menus by manually editting the .cfgs and binding this key to that action. But eventually developers were smart enough to incorporate such basics into their code, so you didn`t have to do that.

You`re right, I do not wish to do any amount of "extracurricular" d***ing around just to play a game. I doubt the majority do either. The fellow I fly with is a 3D graphics programming expert currently enslaved at a major network company in Toronto, and *he* doesn`t wish to do that either. I`m sure he could, and so is he, but neither of us wishes that to be a necessity just to play something. Its fine for those who choose to devote their fiddling time in such a direction, but not for those of us who don`t.

If we find 30 minutes or so to play a game, then that`s what we prefer to be doing - playing. Really, proper multi Quick Mission functionality is not asking for the moon... .

The capacity to 'do everything' is not the issue... the capacity to allow for individual choice as the spirit moves a player is. And the spirit does move us, frequently. Making such an allowance should not require a step into a level/mission editor. A parallel circumstance would be choosing a different primary weapon in Raven Shield coop Terrorist Hunt and having to recompile the level to accommodate. That would be ridiculous, right?

I`d like to see the next patch clean up the entire multiplayer scheme.

(Btw, I do appreciate your commentary... no venom here.)

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 02:07 AM
trughoy wrote:
- So maybe I might be wrong but all you lot want is a
- campaign generator sim. to the campaign generator
- which was used in airwarrior 3.
-

No, we want to be able to play dynamical campaigns online with friends. And/or Make it possible to play the quickmission builder with friends.

(personally, I'd like both but if I would have to choose I would choose campaigns)

Its really remarkable that they havent implemented these features who would add a lot to the game.

I am just curious why? oversight or unsolvabe technical obstacles?



--
"Too late ... No time."
Concorde pilot Christian Marty, moments before the supersonic jet crashed into a hotel in Gonesse on the outskirts of Paris.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:03 AM
WarlokLord wrote:
- WWMaxGunz,
-
- Back 'in the day' one could get around inadequate
- player control configuration menus by manually
- editting the .cfgs and binding this key to that
- action. But eventually developers were smart enough
- to incorporate such basics into their code, so you
- didn`t have to do that.

1C meets us more than halfway, really, with the FMB.

- You`re right, I do not wish to do any amount of
- "extracurricular" d***ing around just to play a
- game. I doubt the majority do either. The fellow I
- fly with is a 3D graphics programming expert
- currently enslaved at a major network company in
- Toronto, and *he* doesn`t wish to do that either.
- I`m sure he could, and so is he, but neither of us
- wishes that to be a necessity just to play
- something. Its fine for those who choose to devote
- their fiddling time in such a direction, but not for
- those of us who don`t.

Well there is the community as something to resort to.

A) Maybe one of the DCG writers will make a QCG (Quick Coop Generator) version? This should be your #1 hope! My note to anyone making such a generator... have it able to make coops or single missions and able to make both forms in one operation.

B) There are missions on sites to download. Perhaps someone does requests and may make a Simple Mission pack?

C) You might start a thread in the General Forum requesting missions.

D) Changing planes in a mission: Open FMB in the sim. Open the mission. Click the plane group you wish to change and view the object (flight of planes is an object). Change the plane type from the dropdown. Change whatever else you want. Coops do not have a Players Flight checked, in case you are modifying a single mission. Save As new file in the Coop Folder. You may want to add a subfolder in the coop folder just for your missions, the game will show it. Time to change 2 flights of planes is under 2 minutes and you have the mission to play and mod forever.

E) Hope that Oleg reads all this and comes up with a button to allow you to save Quick Missions as Coop Missions, which is a leap for someone as occupied as the team is with all they are diong (patch, RTS, LOMAC).

- If we find 30 minutes or so to play a game, then
- that`s what we prefer to be doing - playing. Really,
- proper multi Quick Mission functionality is not
- asking for the moon... .

No it isn't. Trouble is, they are working on the moon now.

- The capacity to 'do everything' is not the issue...
- the capacity to allow for individual choice as the
- spirit moves a player is. And the spirit does move
- us, frequently. Making such an allowance should not
- require a step into a level/mission editor. A
- parallel circumstance would be choosing a different
- primary weapon in Raven Shield coop Terrorist Hunt
- and having to recompile the level to accommodate.
- That would be ridiculous, right?

Yes but the FMB is very far from that. That is why I get the very solid impression that you are letting the idea of something big daunt you when what you want to do is small and rather quick.

I think I can do you a program to change plane types, even report which are used... but since I don't do Windows code you will have to interface through text files (assuming you or your friend has no fear of NotePad) and make your own Icon or double-click an exe file. i would spend the time to do that.

- I`d like to see the next patch clean up the entire
- multiplayer scheme.

I really doubt that FB will go that far. Refine what is there, yes. Perhaps a Save As button for the QMB but that is a stretch as beyond patching and addon planes (and maps) I believe that 1C is through with FB development.

- (Btw, I do appreciate your commentary... no venom
- here.)

None here, ya just frustrate me as I must you! I know that getting started is hard, it's just that the task isn't what you seem to think it is. What takes time is finely crafted missions and brother, do they take time, but they beat the crap out of QMB flights. See what you can find, there's plenty of people very proud of the missions they made.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
08-01-2003, 05:58 AM
S!

Just back from holidays and back into it again. Last night i was working on the roadways database. Currently standing at around 33,000 lines of data - im completeing around 2,000 lines per night and im around 12500. Already complete are the Lvov, Crimean, Kuban and im half way through the Smolensk map.The other maps in the database are the moscow, stalingrad, kursk and prokhorovka. Balaton will be done later.

However what the program will do is to several very different things.

First it will allow you to pick planes from your own airbase and then set a series of waypoints, heights, loadouts and targets.

Second you can set "standing type patrols". These will be aircraft that will fly at a certain time in the game day - subject to availability. Im sure that walldog will make this standing order variable. Eg adding +-1 hour a day or some other variable so it isnt predictable. This reduces workload during a game day.

Thirdly. You will be able to order all ground units from point A - Point B. That journey may takes hours, or even days to complete. Where ever the enemy is encountered then battle will ensure. However you will also be able to issue new orders at any time.

Fourthly. We will have varyling levels of authority on both sides. This will allow players to delegate responsability for all ground, air and sea units to other players in varying sizes. Once delegated authority is issued - that player will control those units in the game.

So as you can see you will be able to go from a very simple scenario to an extremely complex one.

After starting on this after Il2 came out, im very excited that it will shortly be released. Walldog and I have had many setbacks, false starts, but bit by bit we have built on those foundations until it is ready to be released. There is an incredable amount of work that has gone into this and without Walldogs technical programming skills it would not have happened.

Some in the community have ignored us, some have scoffed at us, a few have even thought we were a bit crazy and very few have helped at all. Walldog and i are of the same ilk. Why cant we do it? Who says we cant do it? What do we want to do? How do we build it? Ok lets get started ..... and that was 2 years ago! Now its almost here.

However when this is released and up and running, most will be stunned with how exciting this format will become. Personally i cant wait because i know what is coming and what additional features are in the wings!

RAF74 Taipan