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View Full Version : Will sea rescues be modelled in BoB?



FI-Skipper
04-19-2006, 09:36 AM
I know that for most of BoB on the allied side , there was no real air sea rescue organised but on the German side this wasn't the case.They were much more advanced with "islands" etc etc.

Also ,in future years the British had a proper serach and rescue outfit for rescuing downed pilots from the channel.I'm just curious if this will be modelled.For example...you are shot down over the channel....you call up ground control before you bail out giving a mayday call and a fix...hopefully you are then rescued.

I think this would be a bit more immersive than the current situation wwhere so long as you are over your own border...you are safe whether you are in the desert or the ocean!

Perhaps the channel in BoB could be modelled as a sort of "no-mans land".So if you were shot down you would have to try and reach a boat or hope to be rescued.You could end up drowned , captured or rescued....would certianly add a bit of immersion to offline campaigns.

Regards,

Skipper

heywooood
04-19-2006, 10:36 AM
maybe it would be enough just to have the option in comms to 'call sea rescue' for a downd squadie and then maybe give a vector to the ground controller - then after landing you might get a message indicating 'downed pilot recovered' or 'downed pilot lost or captured' and that would effect the Dgen in a campaign of that type...that might be enough.

...unless its UBI that is looking for us out here lost and forgotten - no Pe2 addon in sight...'pilot drowned' is the message we'll see.

Tater-SW-
04-19-2006, 10:45 AM
You could in effect do that using tools like the front lines tool in Il-2 right now. UK front lines go X miles out inot the channel.

tater

heywooood
04-19-2006, 10:53 AM
yes but only in this case if you remember to call sea rescue, should he have a chance to be rescued...if you forget (as flight leader) or don't notice a friendly is down...he should be lost or captured regardless of the location - patrol boats and planes went everywhere.

BerkshireHunt
04-19-2006, 02:24 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FI-Skipper:
I know that for most of BoB on the allied side , there was no real air sea rescue organised but on the German side this wasn't the case.They were much more advanced with "islands" etc etc.

/QUOTE]

I'm sure you don't know that, because - with respect - it's totally wrong. (Do you really believe that a maritime nation like Britain didn't know how to organise an air-sea rescue service ??!! Ye gods!)

Both sides had well organised air-sea rescue services from the start - coordinated between coastal patrol aircraft, rescue motor launches and observers. This was a vital part of the 'life insurance' offered to pilots who were expected to fight over the sea. The Germans used a variety of floatplanes and motor-launches to collect pilots (as did the British). The RAF left German machines unmolested at the beginning of the battle, until it was realised that German rescue aircraft were sending signals back to France concerning the position of British supply ships in the Channel. From that moment on, they were shot down. This was bad for German morale - a Luftwaffe pilot knew that if he was shot down over the sea near the British coast, he had little chance of being picked up by a German rescue crew, and perhaps would not be picked up at all.. In fact, the British made strenuous efforts to collect all downed pilots, regardless of nationality. If a German pilot was shot down into the sea near the British coastline, it sometimes happened that his comrades would resort to transmitting a rescue call in English, in the hope that it would be picked up by a British monitoring station - and that a (British) launch would be sent out.

Regarding 'islands', I assume you are referring to the welded steel, floating refuges, which were experimentally anchored by the German rescue service just off the French and Dutch coasts ? They were intended to provide shelter for downed Luftwaffe pilots, in an emergency - but they often broke from their moorings and could not be located by aircrews. They were not successful - not a single life was saved by these refuges - however 'advanced'.

FI-Skipper
04-19-2006, 03:00 PM
Originally posted by BerkshireHunt:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by FI-Skipper:
I know that for most of BoB on the allied side , there was no real air sea rescue organised but on the German side this wasn't the case.They were much more advanced with "islands" etc etc.

/QUOTE]

I'm sure you don't know that, because - with respect - it's totally wrong. (Do you really believe that a maritime nation like Britain didn't know how to organise an air-sea rescue service ??!! Ye gods!)

Both sides had well organised air-sea rescue services from the start - coordinated between coastal patrol aircraft, rescue motor launches and observers. This was a vital part of the 'life insurance' offered to pilots who were expected to fight over the sea. The Germans used a variety of floatplanes and motor-launches to collect pilots (as did the British). The RAF left German machines unmolested at the beginning of the battle, until it was realised that German rescue aircraft were sending signals back to France concerning the position of British supply ships in the Channel. From that moment on, they were shot down. This was bad for German morale - a Luftwaffe pilot knew that if he was shot down over the sea near the British coast, he had little chance of being picked up by a German rescue crew, and perhaps would not be picked up at all.. In fact, the British made strenuous efforts to collect all downed pilots, regardless of nationality. If a German pilot was shot down into the sea near the British coastline, it sometimes happened that his comrades would resort to transmitting a rescue call in English, in the hope that it would be picked up by a British monitoring station - and that a (British) launch would be sent out.

Regarding 'islands', I assume you are referring to the welded steel, floating refuges, which were experimentally anchored by the German rescue service just off the French and Dutch coasts ? They were intended to provide shelter for downed Luftwaffe pilots, in an emergency - but they often broke from their moorings and could not be located by aircrews. They were not successful - not a single life was saved by these refuges - however 'advanced'.

Thanks for your information but from the sources and info I have read and recall , pilots who were downed over the channel in 1940 had to hope that they came into contact with a boat or that somebody from their squadron could get a fix.The German pilots were much better equipped with rafts and dye for the sea.So actually...if anything I am somewhat correct and it seems that it is you who is somewhat wrong.

Regards

Skipper

FI-Skipper
04-19-2006, 03:05 PM
Infact here is some evidence of my statements truth:

http://www.edencamp.co.uk/hut9/index.htm

"AIR/SEA RESCUE

It was not until the summer of 1940 that the British seriously considered setting up an air/sea rescue service for pilots who, in the jargon of the time, had been forced to 'ditch'. Pilots who found themselves in the sea during the furious air struggle of the Battle of Britain from July to October 1940, were fished out by an improvised service which came to their rescue with Westland Lysander aircraft dropping rubber dinghies and small motor boats coming out from the shore, but there was no co-ordination and for a pilot, rescue depended too much on luck and fate."

The air sea rescue service wasn't formed until February 1941.Many months after BoB had ended(http://www.cebudanderson.com/downdrink%201.htm)-this page has other interesting things such as how undeveloped the air sea rescue service was during BoB like I previously stated).While it was there...it was minimal and not very efficent or effective.

Skipper

Lodovik
04-19-2006, 03:58 PM
That's some interesting details, FI-Skipper. Specially the latter site, thanks for the link. Shame that the author didn't include his sources, but that's just the internet being itself. Sounds credible, though.

Someday, I'd honestly love to see a BoB sim with a flyable walrus and a complete ASR campaign, especially with the take off problems mentioned in the article (hint, hint, Oleg http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ).
Maybe one of these days I'll put up a sim forum for me and both of the others who'd like to see one. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

FI-Skipper
04-20-2006, 10:23 AM
It would certainly be interesting to try....imagine the tension....trying to sneak in while the dogfight rages over ehad....hopin you won't get spotted and divided on by a numerically superior enemy who is faster and with better armament.Would make for some great online co-ops and indeed add to offline play.

Skipper

DuxCorvan
04-20-2006, 05:00 PM
[unlikely dream]It would be nice to have Do 17, Do 24 and Supermarine Sea Otter and Walrus modeled in the game.[/unlikely dream]