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View Full Version : Rear Gunner In the Sturmovik



RickStocking
12-19-2006, 04:17 PM
Please give the rear gun in the sturmovik a bit more ammo, and make it possible to switch off the AI of the rear gun please.

FritzGryphon
12-19-2006, 04:24 PM
It shouldn't have any more ammo.

As for switching the AI off, you can. Disable autopilot automation (look in your control list for this).

Then jump in the gunner position, turn off the AI, then jump back to the pilot.

RickStocking
12-19-2006, 04:52 PM
I should probably mention that I have IL2-1946

I can turn off the AI while stitting in the rear gun but when I switch to cockpit the AI comes on automatacly. I can't find a fix for that in the control settings Fritz.

And what do you meen when you say ''It shouldn't have any more ammo'' Do you meen it is historically acurate the ammount of ammo it has or simply that it would make the rear gun too potent? Either way it runs out very quick.

Choctaw111
12-19-2006, 05:36 PM
I noted the firing time of the rear gunner in the IL-10 to be about 8 seconds. That is not very much. Is this historically accurate? I think that is what Rick is trying to ask.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Nimits
12-19-2006, 05:39 PM
Do you meen it is historically acurate the ammount of ammo it has

Yep, that is exactly what it means. While any commercial PC flight sim is going to make a few compromises (and maybe mistakes) with flight modelling, no serious combat sim worth anything is going to intentionally model a weapon or ammo load incorrectly. One gets the idea that the gunner was there more for morale purposes than anything else (morale of the pilot that is; rear gunners themselves did not seem to last very long in combat.

VW-IceFire
12-19-2006, 06:41 PM
Originally posted by RickStocking:
I should probably mention that I have IL2-1946

I can turn off the AI while stitting in the rear gun but when I switch to cockpit the AI comes on automatacly. I can't find a fix for that in the control settings Fritz.

And what do you meen when you say ''It shouldn't have any more ammo'' Do you meen it is historically acurate the ammount of ammo it has or simply that it would make the rear gun too potent? Either way it runs out very quick.
Fritz already mentioned it...its called 'Autopilot automation'. There is an option is the key assignments for it. You can set the button to toggle this feature on and off. The downside is that if you jump to a position you have to press A to deactivate the gunner and then A again to reactivate. Good and bad. I prefer to have autopilot automation off so I can do this as I choose instead of the automatic part.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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WWSensei
12-19-2006, 09:56 PM
Unless it was renamed in the 1946 the English option is labeled a confusing "Toggle Level Autopilot" for autoswitching AI on/off.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Tooz_69GIAP
12-21-2006, 10:11 AM
The defensive machine gun in the rear of both the IL-2 and the IL-10 should only have 150 rounds. That is how much they had in reality, and that is how much they have in the game.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

whit ye looking at, ya big jessie?!?!

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Breeze147
12-21-2006, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Tooz_69GIAP:
The defensive machine gun in the rear of both the IL-2 and the IL-10 should only have 150 rounds. That is how much they had in reality, and that is how much they have in the game.
150 rounds...No wonder Backseat Boris is always screaming!!!

Also, for our new players, the Soviets used convicts in the rear gunner position for a very good reason. I believe someone posted that were not expected to last beyond 3 missions.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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alert_1
12-21-2006, 11:37 AM
Rear guner position in IL10 should be more safe for, because contrary to IL2 was armoured..<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

I'm dislectic, so please bear with me...

Haigotron
12-21-2006, 12:04 PM
150 rounds...hardcore i say<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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MadBadVlad
12-21-2006, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Breeze147:
Also, for our new players, the Soviets used convicts in the rear gunner position for a very good reason. I believe someone posted that were not expected to last beyond 3 missions.

Actually that is a common myth. Most rear gunners were well trained in other areas, eg. armourer or engineer, before they became gunners. Also trainee pilots who failed to meet the mark could be offered gunner positions. There may have been some people who survived punishment in a penal battalion who went on to become gunners, but all gunners were certainly not convicts.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Breeze147
12-21-2006, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by MadBadVlad:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Breeze147:
Also, for our new players, the Soviets used convicts in the rear gunner position for a very good reason. I believe someone posted that were not expected to last beyond 3 missions.

Actually that is a common myth. Most rear gunners were well trained in other areas, eg. armourer or engineer, before they became gunners. Also trainee pilots who failed to meet the mark could be offered gunner positions. There may have been some people who survived punishment in a penal battalion who went on to become gunners, but all gunners were certainly not convicts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that ALL rear gunners were from penal battalion, but that SOME were. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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MrQBerrt
12-21-2006, 02:05 PM
150 rounds huh?

Hmm.

Just enoght to shoot off your own rudder if you hit it with every shot.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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VW-IceFire
12-21-2006, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by WWSensei:
Unless it was renamed in the 1946 the English option is labeled a confusing "Toggle Level Autopilot" for autoswitching AI on/off.
Oh yes thats the one. Toggle Level Stabilizer is the actual level autopilot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Choctaw111
12-22-2006, 01:57 PM
The loadout for the rear gunner is 150 rounds. The rate of fire the for the Berezin UB series was between 700 and 800 rounds per minute so the ammunition should last between 11.3 to 12.9 seconds depending on the rate of fire of the gun. When I did a test fire of the rear gunner the ammunition supply was only enough for approximately 8 seconds of continuous fire which is (compared to the 11.3 second figure) 29 percent less and compared to the 12.9 second figure 38 percent less. Looking at these figures it seems that even though the rear gunner does not have very much ammo to begin with there IS definitely a problem with the amount that we are given in the sim. For those that will use and love the Il-10 getting an ammo loadout increased by 38 percent is a very big deal.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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msalama
12-22-2006, 04:09 PM
I believe someone posted that were not expected to last beyond 3 missions.

...which surely was a cretinous line of thinking BTW & IMHO! Because you'll most likely lose the whole crate very soon after losing the backseat guy, don't you?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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joeap
12-22-2006, 04:13 PM
Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I believe someone posted that were not expected to last beyond 3 missions.

...which surely was a cretinous line of thinking BTW & IMHO! Because you'll most likely lose the whole crate very soon after losing the backseat guy, don't you? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Though the pilot had a marginally better chance to survive...certainly so in those field mod Il-2s, that would have been the worst. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

ImpStarDuece
12-22-2006, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Choctaw111:
The loadout for the rear gunner is 150 rounds. The rate of fire the for the Berezin UB series was between 700 and 800 rounds per minute so the ammunition should last between 11.3 to 12.9 seconds depending on the rate of fire of the gun. When I did a test fire of the rear gunner the ammunition supply was only enough for approximately 8 seconds of continuous fire which is (compared to the 11.3 second figure) 29 percent less and compared to the 12.9 second figure 38 percent less. Looking at these figures it seems that even though the rear gunner does not have very much ammo to begin with there IS definitely a problem with the amount that we are given in the sim. For those that will use and love the Il-10 getting an ammo loadout increased by 38 percent is a very big deal.

700-800 RPM would by for a synchronised UB firing through the prop arc, like on a Yak.

An unsynchronised UB, like those on the rear of an Il-2/Il-10 or in the wings of the field mod Hurricane, fired at around 1000-1,100 RPM. So eight seconds of fire would be approximately 133-146 rounds.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Choctaw111
12-22-2006, 07:28 PM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:


700-800 RPM would by for a synchronised UB firing through the prop arc, like on a Yak.

An unsynchronised UB, like those on the rear of an Il-2/Il-10 or in the wings of the field mod Hurricane, fired at around 1000-1,100 RPM. So eight seconds of fire would be approximately 133-146 rounds.

I did not know that the figure I gave was for the synchronized version. Thank you for the heads up. I guess that puts it to rest then...<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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