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View Full Version : TrackIR4 is out, we have been decieved by Naturalpoint!!



Cdn.401GATOR
11-10-2005, 07:42 AM
Naturalpoint has decieved us...

I had been researching and had heard rumours that Naturalpoint might be releasing TrackIR4 but on their own discussion forums they denied it..

I looked into this about 4-6 weeks ago..

Now I get this e-mail in my box this morning:

"
Fortunately, while you were out tanning and barbequing this summer, NaturalPoint was busy in the research lab.

After months of blood, sweat and tears we are proud to say....IT'S ALIVE!!

TrackIR 4:PRO Unveiled
NaturalPoint is proud to announce the TrackIR 4:PRO, the next generation in head tracking technology.


The TrackIR 4:PRO includes full 6DOF capability using NaturalPoint's exclusive Vector Technology. This literally means that users can move their head any direction and have their game view move correspondingly €" instantly providing improved situational awareness in flight and racing sim cockpits, or on the field of battle (see our website for a list of current and upcoming supported games).

We have also given the TrackIR 4:PRO a 46 degree field of view. This is a 30% larger tracking and movement area than its predecessor. Other improvements include a quicker response time and increased resolution using NaturalPoint's Resolution Doubling Technology.

The TrackIR 4:PRO has also been slimmed down to a 1/2" profile, resulting in a lighter, sleeker, more compact design. Its mounting base is now designed to specifically accommodate flat panel monitors.

The TrackIR 4:PRO is available directly from NaturalPoint's own online store and from leading online computer game and peripheral resellers. TrackIR 4:PRO MSRP $179.9.5 Visit http://www.trackir.com/.

Look for the TrackIR 4:PRO to begin shipping late November 2005.

"

They themselves state that they have been working all summer at the top of their ad.. All the while denying that there was any such development in place..

IVJG51_Swine
11-10-2005, 07:56 AM
It's all about generating revenue. They have to keep quiet about progress otherwise no one would purchase current hardware. Then there would be no $$ for research and development. Then there would be no TIR.
I understand the frustration though. I almost just upgraded to a TIR3 and I would have been upset if I got it right before the TIR 4 announcement. With all that being said I think their best policy is just to keep quiet until the new stuff is ready.

SeaFireLIV
11-10-2005, 08:06 AM
This is typical coporate practise. It is considered quite normal to deceive others so as to gain future profits. This is capitalism. You want it, you got it.

BaldieJr
11-10-2005, 08:12 AM
They pulled this with tir3 launch. I bought tir2, and a week later they release ver3.

There really is no reason to not tell a customer to wait a week and spend $10 to get a better product.

But NP thinks I'm made out of money. Good luck to them.

stathem
11-10-2005, 08:20 AM
I didn't own my own PC until the end of 2003, despite being fairly literate due to heavy use of computers at work since 1987.

I always put it off because I knew that there would be a better, faster, cheaper one along in 6 months time.

In the end I bought one and wondered why I'd waited so long.

Ask yourself, does your TIR3 do what you want? If the TIR4 hadn't existed, would you know any different, or be disappointed?

It's still miles better than using a hatswitch.

marc_hawkins
11-10-2005, 08:46 AM
Believe it or not, i've only just got a joystick with a hatswitch, never mind the novelty of twist rudder. Its already making quite a difference for my 'realistic' game play.. never mind the joy of having track IR, sigh.

Owlsphone
11-10-2005, 09:51 AM
The prices just keep climbing too don't they? I might have considered upgrading from my TIR2 for the price of the last one but this is really getting up there.

Grue_
11-10-2005, 10:29 AM
I'd hold on until TrackIR 5 is out personally. I heard they're working on it in their labs http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chef-Scott
11-10-2005, 11:22 AM
I love my new (under 30 days old) TrackIR 3 Pro with Vector Expansion. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
BUT... I really hope that NaturalPoint offers an upgrade path for those of us who would have waited a few more weeks to make our purchases. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Cdn.401GATOR
11-10-2005, 11:34 AM
some companies do give u a heads up.. AMD and Intel for instance provide a roadmap of future upgrades.. Maddox lets us know where the development is going..

Same thing with motherboard and video card manufacturers..

What pissed me off is reading this post that was edit August 29...

I read it before August 29.. and it said something different..

http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?u...t_topic;f=5;t=000227 (http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=000227)


This fellow Warren at the time prior to August 29 was stating that the reason the TIR2 was upgraded to TIR3 was because the original sensor for the TIR2 had become discontinued.. They were able to get a superior sensor and named it the TIR3.. He went on to say how there was no need or work to be in development of a new system.. an outright lie..
If you notice now this post has been reedited...

It's not like they have any competition?

I knew they were up to no good.. That's why I still have my TIR2..

They're lucky they have a monopoly, I probably will end up buying a TIR4 or 5 someday.. But I definitely don't appreciate the outright lying..

Better not to comment than to deceive..

madsarmy
11-10-2005, 11:39 AM
It's a terrible thing when your wallet cant keep up with technology.

Popey109
11-10-2005, 11:43 AM
So who wants to sell me thier trakir 3 cheap? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I still use hatswitch http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

p1ngu666
11-10-2005, 12:05 PM
i remmber askin the natural point guy on comms about future devlopments. silence. that was during crashes 2v2 tournament from months ago.

Worf101
11-10-2005, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by Chef-Scott:
I love my new (under 30 days old) TrackIR 3 Pro with Vector Expansion. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
BUT... I really hope that NaturalPoint offers an upgrade path for those of us who would have waited a few more weeks to make our purchases. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

+1 on that score. Mine is less than 2 months old. I just wrote them a scathing letter complaining about not getting a heads up. I have an LCD, the new version is designed to work better with them. I'm pissed off, really pissed off now. Arrgh I would've waited. I may be standard practices but it don't mean I have to like it.

99th Worf101

willyvic
11-10-2005, 12:17 PM
Griping duly noted. Now either buy it or don't. No sweat off their brow.

WV.

horseback
11-10-2005, 12:29 PM
I got my TIR3 Pro about 6 months ago. I'm very happy with it because it's exactly what I paid for, and it still does very well what I bought it to do.

What if their development teams ran into a few technological 'snags' after announcing to the world at large "Don't bother buying our products for the next six months, because we're going to produce something even better in November of 2005!" What if, after developing the new technology, they found out that the parts they needed weren't available, or worse, that the new stuff wasn't compatible with the systems/games the old stuff was?

Do the words "two more weeks" ring a bell?

I work in the technological development business. The worst thing you can do is tell management or the customer that you're 'about' to get something major accomplished. Everyone has a different idea of what 'about' means in this context, and rather than deal with explaining why you haven't accomplished things to their imagined schedule (and delay your completion date even farther), it's much more efficient to be vague about when the next breakthrough may take place.

Look. If you bought TIR3, and you agreed that the price was fair for the value you've received, what has changed? Have they announced that they will no longer support the 'old' TIR2/3 products, or that you will have to pay a premium for any further software support? Is your 'old' TIR2/3 now rendered useless?

Is this any different from buying a product at store X and then finding out a week later that it was available for 20% less at store Y?

cheers

horseback

TX-EcoDragon
11-10-2005, 12:46 PM
I have been a Hat switch user until I decided to do a trial run on TrackIR 3 Pro w/Vector mod a couple months ago. I ended up keeping it, and I wouldn't go back to a hat, not just for combat sims but for aerobatics, formation, and general aviation simming. I too just got the 3 and feel ever so slighted by there being a new one out now, but after reading the specs changes on the TrackIR4 site I don't feel I'm missing anything as I have no problems associated with the changed areas in the 4. FOV is wide enough on the 3Pro that as it is I move all around when using the 6DOF (more would require a bench seat!), I don't mount it on my monitor anyway so the slimmer design doesn't matter, and it seems to me that the resolution is high enough to not cause any of the troubles I've heard about on some people's older TrackIR units. If those are the only changes, then people without TrackIR should be happy, they can probably get TrackIR3Pro nice and cheap, and get what seems to me to be the same functionality.

TacticalYak3
11-10-2005, 12:59 PM
Personally I see no reason to purchase TIR4Pro. For IL-2 it doesn't offer me anything new for the price. When BOB is released then I will re-consider.

TS!

Troll2k
11-10-2005, 01:23 PM
If you wait to buy equipment because new technology is just a couple of months away you will never buy anything.

marcocomparato
11-10-2005, 02:14 PM
i would like to also speak up to say that i think NaturalPoint has been arguably the NICEST and most SUPPORTIVE of our sim, most other popular sims, and our communities.

as an example, they are footing the bill for the HyperLobby servers and software development....u knew that right?

When nobody in the US wanted to distribute LOMAC:FC, they went ahead and stocked it for us and their not even in that business!

and lastly, i really think that the TrackIR is ALOT CHEAPER than i would have expected to pay for this kind of technology and software. the TrackIR software is really quite good.

carguy_
11-10-2005, 02:18 PM
So what`s new?Ever seen Pacific Fighters trailer?

Bearcat99
11-10-2005, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by BaldieJr:
They pulled this with tir3 launch. I bought tir2, and a week later they release ver3.

There really is no reason to not tell a customer to wait a week and spend $10 to get a better product.

But NP thinks I'm made out of money. Good luck to them.

Im there too............. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

x6BL_Brando
11-10-2005, 03:07 PM
Naturalpoint has decieved us...

I feel myself turning into a melodrama-nazi http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif We should burn all violins and sacrifice those puppies that show any signs of developing adorable big brown eyes......

tagTaken2
11-10-2005, 04:30 PM
Yeah! 8dof!

Fortunately, while you were out tanning and barbequing this summer, NaturalPoint was busy in the research lab.

After months of blood, sweat and tears we are proud to say....IT'S ALIVE!!

TrackIR 4:PRO Unveiled

NaturalPoint is proud to announce the TrackIR 4:PRO, the next generation in head tracking technology.

The TrackIR 4:PRO includes full 8DOF capability using NaturalPoint's exclusive Vector and Time Travel Technology. This literally means that users can move their head in all four dimensions and have their game view move correspondingly instantly providing improved situational awareness in flight and racing sim cockpits, or on the field of battle (see our website for a list of current and upcoming supported games).


Yes, the fourth dimension... TIME!

Move your viewpoint back and forth through the course of a mission!

Now I don't even need to start the engine to see myself getting shot down.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

DaimonSyrius
11-10-2005, 06:03 PM
Stop Press ! ! Breaking News ! ! 9DoF !!

Fortunately, while you were out dangling silly pumpkins, we spent Halloween at our research labs facilities, polishing the latest breakthrough in immersive technologies

After weeks, 9 days actually, of blood, sweat and tears we are proud to say....IT'S ALIVE!!

TrackIR 5:BLINK Unveiled
NaturalPoint is proud to announce the TrackIR 5:BLINK, the next-to-next generation in head tracking technology.

In addition to the wonderful improvements just quoted by tagTaken2, TrackIR 5:BLINK will track your eyelid movements and display a pitch-black shutter effect on your screen everytime you blink! You won't actually be seeing it, because you're just blinking at that time, remember, but this new extended deggree of freedom will make your sim experience so much more immersive, just knowing that your field of vision is being obscured just like the real pilots' FOVs were when blinking! Isn't that realistic?

So everyone hold their horses http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S.

Cdn.401GATOR
11-10-2005, 06:11 PM
Originally posted by marcocomparato:
i would like to also speak up to say that i think NaturalPoint has been arguably the NICEST and most SUPPORTIVE of our sim, most other popular sims, and our communities.

as an example, they are footing the bill for the HyperLobby servers and software development....u knew that right?

When nobody in the US wanted to distribute LOMAC:FC, they went ahead and stocked it for us and their not even in that business!

and lastly, i really think that the TrackIR is ALOT CHEAPER than i would have expected to pay for this kind of technology and software. the TrackIR software is really quite good.

#1: Of course they're supportive of our sim, without this sim they would not have sold hundreds or thousands more TIR's, it's in their self interest..

#2: I've been on Hyperlobby for about 5+ years now and very little in terms of software has changed.. Again it is in their own self interest to support this sim.. The cost to run Jiri's server from the Czech republic has to be peanuts.. Jiri used to do it for free for years before they came along..

#3: Again, more LOMAC users means more sales.. It is in their own self interest that they do this..

#4: The product is a good one, no quarrels there..

Now if they were such nice fellows as is being attested they would have stated that development was being conducted on a new system.. No future release dates need be given.. Those buying TIR3 in the summer would do so in the full knowledge that something better was coming soon..

The reason they don't is that again it is not in their self interest.. Doing so would have slowed down sales of TIR3 and then forced them to sell TIR3 at a lower price once TIR4 came out..

If they did not have a monopoly on these devices they would not be able to use these deceptive practices. They would have had to advertise the fact that new development was taking place inorder to keep people from buying the other guys tracker..

This is what happens in a free market system where you have competition...

tagTaken2
11-10-2005, 06:37 PM
Pull your finger out, Oleg!

Fortunately, while you were out tanning and barbequing this summer, NaturalPoint was busy in the research lab.

After months of blood, sweat and tears we are proud to say....IT'S ALIVE!!

TrackIR 6:PRO Unveiled

NaturalPoint is proud to announce the TrackIR 6:PRO, the next generation in head tracking technology.

The TrackIR 6:PRO includes full 22DOF capability using NaturalPoint's exclusive Vector and M-theory Technology. This literally means that users can move their head in 11 dimensional space-time and have their game view move correspondingly instantly providing improved situational awareness in flight and racing sim cockpits, or on the field of battle (see our website for a list of current and upcoming supported games).

See what might have happened if you weren't such a **** noob!

http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/M-theory

I'd rather be doing anything than studying right now. Does it show?


Originally posted by DaimonSyrius:
Isn't that realistic?

So everyone hold their horses http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

S.

More realistic to expect that upgrade...

jermin122
11-10-2005, 07:09 PM
Actually, I just ordered a TIR 3Pro and Vector Expansion last week.

Jetbuff
11-10-2005, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
I got my TIR3 Pro about 6 months ago. I'm very happy with it because it's exactly what I paid for, and it still does very well what I bought it to do.

...

Look. If you bought TIR3, and you agreed that the price was fair for the value you've received, what has changed? Have they announced that they will no longer support the 'old' TIR2/3 products, or that you will have to pay a premium for any further software support? Is your 'old' TIR2/3 now rendered useless?

Is this any different from buying a product at store X and then finding out a week later that it was available for 20% less at store Y?
Well said! Yeah, it sucks to know you could have gotten the 4 if you held out a while longer but isn't that the case with every upgradable gadget? You could wait forever, buy every new release or hold a nice middle ground upgrading when the need arises.

For me, it was the TrackIR 1 to get rid of the POV hat, then the TIR3 Pro to get better precision (no vector yet) and I'll probably wait on Oleg's BOB and buy whatever current trackIR is available then.

LeadSpitter_
11-10-2005, 10:34 PM
track ir is way over priced I made the mistake of buying tir1 and the stupid 3d glasses along time ago. I wound up selling them on ebay for 50 bucks since they were dust collectors.

Dont get me wrong the new trackir 3 pro and 6dof seems worlds better then the original with panning refreshs but still many have problems from what i hear on comms as well as the forums with alot of lockups when flying and always having to reboot.

for something that cost so cheap to make they are charging way to much money for trackir almost 200 dollars,If they charged 50-100 bucks for everything they would get alot more customers and most likely make more money with a cheaper price and old trackir users who want to upgrade.

ronison
11-10-2005, 11:01 PM
I just purchesed my Trackir 3 Pro Sunday. I live near Corvallis and so called them. Here in Oregon, and many other States in the US, there is a 30 day product return policy for sale items. Being that the Trackir had its price reduced an aditinal $10 sence Sunday I called and asked if there could be something done about the $10 diffrence.

I recieved this Email.....

Hello,

We at NaturalPoint understand your concern regarding your recent purchase of
the TrackIR 3 Pro. If you have purchased your unit within the last 30 days
we will be more than happy to issue you an RMA number, where you can return
the Track3 Pro for a refund and purchase the TrackIR 4.

We can also offer you a $10 coupon (the difference in the TrackIR 3 Pro
purchase price and the sale price) that you can use on your next
NaturalPoint Order.

........

This as I said is normal policy for stores here and I personly am not too upset about the solution. As for thoes that bought theirs prior to the 30 days I can understand the frustration but that is the risk we take when new products are coming up to go on the market. Most people know that when a product starts to drop in price, as the TrackIR has recently, that a new one is coming out soon. I was a bit suprised that it happened so soon but it didnt come as a shock when I got the Email the day after I recieved my new Trackir 3 Pro.

Another thing you could possibly do if you have perchesed the product in the past 30 days is return it, get the refund, and reperches it for the reduced price.

jermin122
11-11-2005, 09:18 AM
But I'm in China right now, budy. The shipping cost will cost me 40+ dollars.

GoGamer-Jason
11-11-2005, 10:06 AM
Here is a link to the announcement I made at SimHQ about our TIR 4 special at GoGamer.com

Maybe this will ease the sting for those that eventually buy a TrackIR 4.

http://www.simhq.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=144&t=001648

Jason

Hawgdog
11-11-2005, 10:17 AM
HA HAA HAA AH HA HA


I'M STILL RUNNING TRACKIR ONE, UNO BABY!!!!

RedDeth
11-11-2005, 06:06 PM
its the same as the car business. if a new model is coming out next week the dealership wont tell you. they have to get rid of on hand stock.

if you think thats wrong your mistaken. they cant let those cars sit on their lot. they have to move them. they cant be expected to take a loss on the products they have because something better is coming along.

this is a free market economy. if you shell out the cash for trak ir 3 then you had good reason. you wanted the product.

if you dont like it anymore thats not naturalpoints fault.

go sell it on ebay fast before everyone realizes trak ir 4 is out and take your losses and buy the newer more expensive product. if you dont have enough cash then i suggest you start liking your track ir 3.

jermin122
11-11-2005, 10:39 PM
Yesterday I went through this link http://www.naturalpoint.com/partners/pacfighters-oct2004.html
which provides a $30 discount off for TrackIR 3 Pro. I remooved 3 Pro from my cart and ordered a TrackIR 4. The discount was still there. Then the price of TrackIR4 became $149.95. Does it mean that I can buy a TrackIR 4 for only $149.95?

Cdn.401GATOR
11-12-2005, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by RedDeth:
its the same as the car business. if a new model is coming out next week the dealership wont tell you. they have to get rid of on hand stock.

if you think thats wrong your mistaken. they cant let those cars sit on their lot. they have to move them. they cant be expected to take a loss on the products they have because something better is coming along.

this is a free market economy. if you shell out the cash for trak ir 3 then you had good reason. you wanted the product.

if you dont like it anymore thats not naturalpoints fault.

go sell it on ebay fast before everyone realizes trak ir 4 is out and take your losses and buy the newer more expensive product. if you dont have enough cash then i suggest you start liking your track ir 3.

Bad example Redeth.. Who expects a car dealership and car salesman to be honest???

But your mistaken.. There are car shows and magazines and TV shows that preview the new cars coming for the next calendar year..

Here is a link to the 2006 lineup... Last time I checked its still 2005..

http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGuides/Section.jsp?sec...ar=2006&aff=national (http://www.cars.com/go/crp/buyingGuides/Section.jsp?section=MYP&subject=MYP&story=mypindex&year=2006&aff=national)

Now yes the dealer won't tell me what exact day the 2006 will be available.. You're right.. But that is not my argument.. You know it is coming eventually.. Naturalpoint denied and obfiscated the fact that there was anything new coming.. That is the deception..


And where is the free market economy with regard to the tracker market? To have a free market you have to have competition, last time I checked Naturalpoint is sitting on top of a monopoly..

You're right in this respect...

Naturalpoint = Used Car Salesman..

Jamz05
11-13-2005, 08:33 AM
TBH,unless youve got a FlatScreen you wont notice any difference..ive had my TIR3Pro with vector expansion for about 6-7 mths.. couldnt fly without it now...

when i see the news the only thing that upsrt me was the look of it now..loks really nice now conpared to my model..

they boast a wider 'seen' angle but again, unless yer 10 ft away from yer monitor you wont notice anything more..

not to mention the price difference http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

TooCooL34
11-13-2005, 09:24 AM
We need a competitor now.