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View Full Version : Will plane breakup speeds be fixed in the patch?



XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 10:45 PM
i always thought the inferior construction of Russian planes made them break up faster than LW planes in a dive, heck even the Il2 manual said a 109 could rely on it's superior construction compared to a Mig, and it still outdove me and wouldn't fall apart.

I hate it when my Dora dives and a La-7 follows happily ever after. And of course i can't pull out anymore since my elevators are fried, but sigh, that's another story..

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 10:45 PM
i always thought the inferior construction of Russian planes made them break up faster than LW planes in a dive, heck even the Il2 manual said a 109 could rely on it's superior construction compared to a Mig, and it still outdove me and wouldn't fall apart.

I hate it when my Dora dives and a La-7 follows happily ever after. And of course i can't pull out anymore since my elevators are fried, but sigh, that's another story..

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 10:59 PM
That's odd, when I fly in an LA7 I start loosing parts of my plane at around 720 km/h while with the Dora I reach 880 km/h and don't loose any parts at all.

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XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 11:03 PM
IAS or TAS?

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 11:05 PM
TAS

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 01:36 AM
I noticed the AI doesn't care about breaking speeds too...
they simply dive from 5000 meters and pull back at 1000, simply as that...

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 08:18 AM
So basicly it's an AI issue and not a plane/bias issue like I already figured it would be.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 09:06 AM
Hmm, I found this test:
For example in this test La-7's work differently. Please note that the testers tell that these values are only a guideline, not a clinical test. However here Dora is only a bit better (as I could expect):

http://sturmoturnee.net/SCT/index.php?sct=syoksyt.php

Hmmm, maybe this is the place to say "its the pilot, not the plane" chant(TM). /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Seriously:
I believe it is a bit irrelevant to tune those high-speed planes because procentual margins go so small that randomization becomes bigger effect; more important would be to tune those ridiculously high divingspeeds of open cockpit planes like I-16 and I-153 compared to especially B-239. For example I-153 doesnt break at all; it just doesn't go any faster.


Edit: Some spelling mistakes

Message Edited on 06/26/0302:24PM by Kannaksen_hanu

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 11:08 AM
For my own defence I have to add that those speeds are really only a guideline. Those tests were made by 3 people and 1-3 tries per plane. As far as I remember all planes had 100% fuel. So not accurate test results!! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 01:05 PM
Been there done this while diving on a bomber, the 109 broke yp at 840, so just for the bias players i used the LA-7 next it broke up at 890.

May you not become a dirt torpedo.

PlatinumDragon...

XyZspineZyX
06-26-2003, 04:10 PM
Dora breaks up around 850 IAS (varies on altitude), I know AI LA7 breaks up sooner because I have had them explode chasing me down. Online none of the LAs or Yaks ever comes close, I easily escape them by diving to 800IAS. 109K4 is slightly better than Dora (I broke up chasing one once and asked him, he said they break around 890 and he should know cause it almost all he flies and he flies them up high).

Nevertheless there have been many good posts showing that many planes have incorrect max dive speeds from all the way back to IL2.

XyZspineZyX
07-01-2003, 08:03 AM
Max dive speed is only part of the problem. The dive acceleration of 'lighter' aircraft like the Yak-3 is an issue. You should be able to out-dive a Yak and extend away with your heavier more powerful Fw190, at the moment the difference is marginal /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

JG5_UnKle

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:04 AM
Here is a related thread to this topic, but the subject matter is not completely obvious from its title:

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=Olegmaddoxreadyroom&id=zvmgz


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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:46 AM
You should be able to out-dive a Yak and extend away with your heavier more powerful Fw190, at the moment the difference is marginal

Yak-3 dive acceleration is considerably better than both the P-47 and FW-190A8, the only mitigating facter being that the Yak-3 blows up at a lower speed.

I had a chart about dives in FB, but I can't find it now. The dive accel (45 degree dive) for Yak-3 is about 20% or so faster than FW-190A8, and FW-190A8 dive accel is about 10% faster than P-47.

Then on the second day, it was made bug free, and He saw that it was good.

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 06:08 AM
AFAIK, the P-47 can reach the highest dive speed of any other fighter in FB. The other day I was trying to get away from the La5FN on my tail. I dove and leveled out at 990km/h at 1000m, when the La5 reached my altitude, I zoomed back to altitude, but during my zoom the the La5 caught up with me without much effort, and with a short burst he cut my wing off. This is ridiculous, and it actually made turn off the game.

Another non favorite of mine is when after a head on pass wiht co-alt/speed, I perform a zoom climb without putting on too much G(which isn't possible anyways in the Fw). The La5 in this case makes a 180 degree climbing high G turn, gets on my six and catches up with me in the vertical, again without any effort, and blasts me with a short burst, tearing my wing off.

This happens all the time, and the appart from the 109's only the Dora can get away with a zoom climb.

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The Ta 152C

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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 07:55 AM
RGR that guys /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Fennec - I was thinking more of the A9 at altitude - but I didn't want to come across as a luftwhiner LOL /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But I agree with you both, people who can't see these issues just fly FB with a blinkered view IMHO /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


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XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 08:39 AM
unkle,ask jara,he did pretty well with his A9 vs my yak3,could only catch him after 10mns....and he got me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 12:34 PM
Just because people score kills in these planes doesn't mean they are modeled properly. I can shoot down a LaGG-3 S66 with 40 20mm hits, but that doesn't mean that is correct. In real life it would have taken about 5-7 on average to blow the plane apart. Same problem with the dive speeds and energy retention in zoom climbs, the lighter fighters have a huge and incredably unrealistic advantage. This is one of IL2/FB's serious shortcommings and is the source of almost all the funky FM's we see.

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As we all know, the Soviet Union had too many fighter pilots during WW2. So Stalin's scientists came up with a brillient way to solve this problem. They would make some of their pilots fly British made Hurricanes. The Hurricane was an uber flying coffin. It was designed to maximize pilot kills by providing nothing but fabric and a few wooden spars around the cockpit. This setup prevented the pilot from escaping easily while at the same time not interfering with enemy bullets and shrapnel trying to pass through it. The rest of the Hurricanes structure was designed to ricochet bullets and shrapnel into the cockpit. And thanks to the cockpits superb design, all of them would pass through the cockpit and the pilot inside with little difficulty. Of course the Hurricane's designers didn't stop there. In order for the Hurricane to become a flying coffin, they had to make it easy to shoot. They did this by making the Hurricane the slowest monoplane fighter in use at the time and even gave it a very bulky shape so that it would be easy to spot and hit. The final feature of the Hurricane was its ability to bury or cremate itself. And because it was made of biodegradable materials, the Hurricane was environmentally friendly after it buried itself. Because of these brillient features, the Hurricane was a perfect flying coffin and helped the Soviets solve the pilot surplus they were suffering.
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Message Edited on 07/02/0306:35AM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 06:37 PM
PB0_Roll wrote:
- unkle,ask jara,he did pretty well with his A9 vs my
- yak3,could only catch him after 10mns....and he got
- me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-

He he he, that's JaRa for ya /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

JG5_UnKle

"Know and use all the capabilities of your airplane. If you don't sooner or later, somebody who does, will kick your ***"


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