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Craddok
11-26-2009, 01:11 AM
First off, I realize other topics have been posted about this, but this post is to clarify what the generally accepted interpretation of ACII's end and The Truth video seems to be.

From what I can tell, everything started with a race referred to as "The Ones Who Came Before" (to simplify things I'll just call them Gods from now on. Make no mistake, however, they are not gods). They were an extremely advanced civilization, but there is no indication that they were aliens, as some believe. They lived on the Earth long before the mankind was created. And they were created. It seems that these Gods used the Pieces of Eden (an invention of theirs, presumably) to create humans (one of the glyph files suggests that they created them by forcing primates to evolve with the Pieces of Eden) to serve them as slaves. This is suggested by two things: the brief image in The Truth of humans working, overseen by a shadowy figure (the god Minerva, according to some official concept art) holding an Apple of Eden (The Piece of Eden that is shaped like a sphere) and by a glyph file containing an article from a medical journal stating that a seemingly useless neurotransmitter had been found in the human brain. The glyph file goes on to suggest that this neurotransmitter is there because mankind was designed to be controlled by the Pieces of Eden.

Eventually one of the gods mated with a human, producing Adam and Eve (whether they were siblings or completely unrelated is unknown and irrelevant) who were basically the original Assassins, or the "The Children of Two Worlds" as one Glyph file puts it. This is why Assassins have such remarkable abilities, like Eagle Vision and unnatural agility. I've heard that Ubisoft said that another attribute of this new race is their immunity to the Mind Control capabilities of the Pieces of Eden, but I cannot find the quote (if anyone has it, post it please). I don't quite understand that since you see plenty of Assassins being controlled by Al Mualim in the first game, and Adam and Eve could easily be immune because they hold a Piece of Eden (and Ezio demonstrates that one Piece can in fact block another during the fight with the Maestro). Anyways, Adam and Eve steal a Piece of Eden and escape with it, either freeing the humans in the process or returning later to do so. This sparks a war between the powerful gods and the innumerable humans.

At some point during this war, a devastating cosmic event happens, and the Earth burns (this event is definitely caused by the Sun - probably an incredibly large solar flare). Humans and Gods alike are nearly killed off entirely, but a few members of each race survive and slowly rebuild. But, for an unexplained reason, the Gods never fully recover and eventually die off, while the humans prosper (and their Assassin protectors). The hologram of Minerva that Ezio meets in the Vault seems to be some kind of AI left behind by the Gods once they had accepted their fate... nothing more than an interactive message, really. The thing that was the most confusing for many was the fact that Minerva talked to Desmond through Ezio. This is a complicated topic and everything I have to say about it is inferred, so I could very easily be wrong. The most likely answer is that the Gods had achieved some level of prescience (that is, the ability to see glimpses of the future) but this power must have been quite limited, or it was not developed until after the catastrophe, because if their prescience had existed beforehand and it had been absolute they would have foreseen the catastrophe and avoided it. This aptitude for prescience seems to be derived from the Gods' apparent tendency to "perceive time differently", rather than our human tendency to see time as absolutely linear and totally inexorable. It is also connected to the Pieces of Eden, somehow. Altair wrote in one of the pages of his Codex that "the Apple is more than a catalogue of that which precedes us. Within its twisting, sparking innards I've caught glimpses of what will be". Whether the Gods had their prescience because of the Pieces of Eden or, more likely, the other way around is unknown. As for the reason Minerva talked to Desmond, she was simply delivering a warning and decided that talking to an Assassin through that Assassin's ancestor was a secure way to communicate.

EDIT: I've also heard some say that there were three people in The Truth video, Adam, Eve, and an unnamed third person from whose eyes we see the whole video. I don't believe this to the case. Firstly, The Animus displays things in third person (though it could be argued that this is for the sake of gameplay and that in the "pure" Assassin's Creed universe this is not the case). Secondly; remember that Subject Sixteen is in fact an Assassin and is therefore a descendant of Adam and Eve, the first Assassins, so he could easily be viewing the memories of either one of them, rather than a third, random Assassin. And third, the camera occasionally does things that a first person camera couldn't do (i.e. zoom out to show the whole complex when Adam and Eve reach the roof, or when the camera flies between the two while they are running fairly close together).

As for the Templars, they seem to have no connection to the Gods other than their use of the Pieces of Eden. They do know about the true origin of humanity (this is revealed through a letter from Abstergo seen in a Glyph file) but they have no direct connection to it.

Hopefully this helps, and hopefully it wasn't completely redundant. Feel free to ask questions or correct any mistakes I've made (or just discuss any viable alternatives to the interpretation above). Thanks to Cornik22 for helping to refine this post and for some addition information.

Azugo
11-26-2009, 02:05 AM
I had a good time reading this... >_<

Cornik22
11-26-2009, 05:12 AM
Excellent job, Craddok! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif In my opinion, it could have been better if the text was structured in blocks of information (like 1- The first civilisation, 2- The truth video, 3- Adam and Eve, ...). This way it should be easier to read.

Anyway, I would like to add some ideas taken from the official guide, "secrets" section. Fell free to update your article with them if you want http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

- The members of the first civilisation were neither gods nor humans (as you already mentioned). In the guide they are described as a different species. If they came from space, other time or reality, or have always been here, we don't know yet.

- Minerva was the last survivor of her species. It was her responsibility to record the holographic message in order to warn Desmond about the future disaster. We don't know when this recording took place, but we do know that she was already dead by the time Ezio entered the vault.

- Minerva tells Desmond that in order to save mankind he has to find the other vaultss. Their locations are revealed in the first AC, in the holo-glove right after Altair defeats Al Mualim. In those vaults he will find information about the future disaster and how to prevent it, and maybe powerful artefacts to success in his mission.

- One hologram shows one of the locations, a Mesoamerican pyramid. It's interesting to mention that while he was kidnapped, subject 16 visited the memories of his Mayan ancestor. That explains the Nazca symbols, a representation of Machu Pichu and the Mesoamerican pyramid he painted with his blood in the Abstergo room.

- Minerva knew about the second catastrophe and Desmond because her species have flashes from the future (or precognitive powers, I'm not sure what is the proper name). She also knew that assassins and templars would recreate the animus, based on technology of her civilisation.

- The "god" controlling humans with a piece of Eden in The Truth video is indeed Minerva, as confirmed by concept art.

Craddok
11-26-2009, 01:17 PM
Cornik, Could you supply a quote from the part of the official guide that talks about the Gods' precognitive abilities? I'd like to add that to the post, but I'd need some confirmation first.

TyronLeRoy
11-26-2009, 02:19 PM
knew about the second catastrophe and Desmond because her species have flashes from the future (or precognitive powers, I'm not sure what is the proper name). She also knew that assassins and templars would recreate the animus, based on technology of her civilisation.

Glad to see someone is on the same line as I am. I hold this to be true of what I saw in the game itself. Nice work, Craddok.

Cornik22
11-26-2009, 04:49 PM
Nice work, Craddok
Hey, you are quoting me! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif


Could you supply a quote from the part of the official guide that talks about the Gods' precognitive abilities?
Sure! Hope this helps! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

First of all, it is explained why Minerva ignores the prophet and address Desmond directly. According to the guide "Ezio's role as prophet is to act as a conduit for Minerva to deliver data to Desmond alone", comparing Ezio to an "answering machine or a biological bulletin board". Considering how important is the message, "its incalculable worth (and the consequences, should it fall in the wrong hands) means that this is actually an ingenious way of communicating secure data from past to future."

Second, Minerva knew about the Animus technology because it is recreated by assassins and templars from "First Civilisation science". She knew that mankind would reach the point of creating such devices, choosing to deliver her message not to Ezio, but "to the first descendant to access his past through memories". Then it is suggested that after the events of AC2 Ezio had a better understanding of what happened in the vault and appreciated that his life was "one thread of a much grander tapestry intended for the eyes of others. Such is the role of a prophet".

Third, "Minerva's direct appeal to Desmond implies that the First Civilisation had powers to foresee the future", and that it's obvious that "her people perceived time differently". Even with that, "the relationship between the First Civilisation and time is not completely clear", because "any capacity for clairvoyance would have at least revealed the catastrophe that befell them. Instead, time seems to have been their greatest enemy in all things".

Craddok
11-27-2009, 12:12 AM
Added a few things I overlooked and edited the fourth paragraph to include Cornik22's information on the Gods' precognitive abilities.

Edengoth
11-28-2009, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Craddok:
to create humans (one of the glyph files suggests that they created them by forcing primates to evolve with the Pieces of Eden)
I'm sorry. I had to stop, drop, and ROFL right there, because that sounded like some straight-up Pokemon. Reminded me of those special elemental stones that would force-evolve certain ones. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

BAMB0
11-28-2009, 12:47 PM
What I took out of that glyph was that the PoE was used to hide the truth and transform human skeletons to primate-like bone structure.

Even though we don't know the full extent of the power of the PoE and that so far we've seen that it's only been able to create images and get into the mind of man. I don't know if we can say the PoE can literally transform a primate into an evolved and full human.

But hey, this is the AC lore. Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

takeno98
11-28-2009, 01:17 PM
Just figured I'd add that it is implied that Cain was the first "Templar" or at least started what would become the Templars in one of the glyphs. After solving the glyph's puzzles (all of which are rotating puzzles that depict Cain killing Abel) 16 says "behold the mark of Cain!" and the Templar Cross appears above each picture.

Dm1les
11-29-2009, 05:17 AM
and just where is the concept art of minerva?

Deity Matrix
11-29-2009, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by Craddok:
I've heard that Ubisoft said that another attribute of this new race is their immunity to the Mind Control capabilities of the Pieces of Eden, but I cannot find the quote (if anyone has it, post it please). I don't quite understand that since you see plenty of Assassins being controlled by Al Mualim in the first game, and Adam and Eve could easily be immune because they hold a Piece of Eden (and Ezio demonstrates that one Piece can in fact block another during the fight with the Maestro).

One idea cocerning your question: Since all the assassin memories relate to a single bloodline that includes Altair and Ezio, among many others, as well as numerous in-game references to the spectacular uniqueness of Altair and Ezio, etc., I believe it can be concluded that only this blood line is endowed with the special abilities you mentioned. Meaning this i the reason for the use of only Desmond and his ancestors in the Animus, as opposed to any random modern-day assassin.
The reason for this is because as Altair elaborates on, Masyaf is a collection of followers of the Creed and people protected by the assassins, and only a select few(perhaps on ly him at the time) have the unique abilities passed down from the original "biological assassins". Case in point: Lucy and her allies are only followers of the Creed, but have no Eagle Vision to use like Desmond does. Pehaps this will change, but I believe my theory is probably the correct one.
Interestingly, if this is the case, that means Sunject 16 and his predecessors are directly related to Desmond(without his knowledge, most likely). Which leads to something else I have been wanting to bring up...
Although of seemingly little consequence, I was wondering how exactly it is that Desmond has the exact same scar on his mouth that Ezio received in the beginning of AC2? Genetics seems impossible, and transmission through the Animus is an idea(since I don"t remember seeing the scar on Desmond's character model in AC1, but throughout AC2), or perhaps there is a deeper meaning for this strange physical likeness...or maybe the designers simply wanted Desmond to have the same look as Ezio...however that doesn't explain the strong cinematic and story line emphasis on Ezio's scar in the beginning of AC2....

Anyway, any thoughts?

Deity Matrix
11-29-2009, 06:51 PM
Bump (so Craddok might get to read this soon) or anyone else wanting dscussion.

Deity Matrix
11-29-2009, 08:04 PM
Anybody? Any thoughts about the scar or any related mysteries?

Bob_Cats
11-30-2009, 03:48 AM
People say Ezio, Desmond and Altair look exactly the same, this is not true.

They all have a scar on their mouth though.

Either the creators of the game stuffed up one of their secret code things but:

Altair has his scar from the beginning of the game (I think).

Ezio gets his scar through his punch up with the Pazzi kid. (I think).

And Desmond has his always. (I think).

Sorry about the I thinks, it's just I'm not quite sure whether Ezio has a small scar at the beginning of AC2, MADE BIGGER by the punch up and so this IMPORTANT FACIAL FEATURE THE SCAR is actually genetic, somehow...

Through a deficiency or just because Altair's is special and decided his babies would have scars on their lips.

Neo_Age
11-30-2009, 08:19 AM
In regards to why Altair's master could control the assassins several possibilities exist.

1. Most of the assassins are not from the Adam and Eve bloodline. Those that are not from this bloodline are simply trained to be the best that they can be and likely end up merely as low to mid level assassins, information gatherers, etc.

2. Altair and the assassins are indeed all from the same bloodline, but because of genetic drift due to generations of human/god hybrids mating and producing offspring with pure humans much of the gifts from adam and eve are significantly watered down. Altair and his immediate descendants likely were genetically fortunate to retain the ability to resist the mind control aspect of the POE's as well as hold on to the physical abilities (though they still are vulnerable to the POE's ability to control the human body).

3. Altair is some sort of mutant that the neural receptor that is used to make humans submit to a POE is slightly different then others. This would explain why the POE still had an effect on him (him seeing things, the POE being able to physically restrain his body) but stops short of getting him to completely submit to its power. This mutation is simply a random occurrence or is recessive.

4. Adam and Eve, Altair, Ezio, etc, all have the neural transmitter but through sheer willpower are able to overcome in part or in whole the power of a POE. This would go along with the theme that society is set up to have its members not think and accept things as they are. By questioning, knowledge and so forth they are able to counter whatever messages the POE sends to the neural transmitters in their brains. In short knowledge is power (literally).

JaySpencer098
11-30-2009, 10:57 AM
Not sure if anyone has already posted this yet, because i can't be bothered reading it all, but for anyone who may want some clues as to where ACIII may lead to, whilst you are playing as Ezio, and you have to rearrange the codex pages to make a map of the world, there are small, silver Assassin symbols. I myself was too busy trying to finish the game, so I did not note them down, but for anyone who hasn't done this part yet, or would like to re-visit it, keep a look out for them.

Z0M813xxDR4U6R
11-30-2009, 12:14 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bob_Cats:
People say Ezio, Desmond and Altair look exactly the same, this is not true.

the truth behind this is that they NEARLY look almost exactly alike with minor differences, i.e. Ezio seems a bit more muscular, while Desmond is leaner and in turn altair in between. plus each chracter has the same scar. (weird)

Craddok
11-30-2009, 09:15 PM
DeityMatrix:
Sorry for taking so long to reply. I'd thought this thread had died already hah. Your theory that Desmond's line is unique may be right. It is indeed suggested that not all Assassin's have Eagle Vision when Desmond uses it to get through the locked door at Abstergo (something Lucy either didn't think to do or, more likely, couldn't do). And we know that the Assassin's aren't a single, pure breed of humans. The ill effects in-breeding would have on them is one reason, and Altair confirms for us in his Codex that Shaun is far from the only Assassin brought in from outside the order: "We are growing larger. More make their way to our fortresses every day"
As for their scar, yeah I noticed that too. It could be a purely aesthetic choice on the part of the developers. Desmond did have the scar in the first game, though. So, unless he gained it at some point during the first game and I just figured he had it from the beginning, transmission through the Animus isn't the cause. At this point we simply don't have enough information to assume it's anything more than an aesthetic choice.

Deity Matrix
11-30-2009, 11:19 PM
Hmmm, strange that they would do that for all of them...seeing as how a scar is a very unusual thing to have in common with anyone, let alone ancestors. I mean, it does look like the models for Desmond and Altair in AC1 are nearly identical in the face, which seems strange to me first off considering that genetic ancestors beyond a few generations almost never look anything like their future descendants, and especially so when land of origin and immigration are considered.

Perhaps there is no reason other than the developers not caring or wanting the ancestors and Desmond to seem to have an intimate connection. It still remains unclear...

Bob_Cats
11-30-2009, 11:56 PM
Also Craddok,

Lucy says 'how did you do that'

It is quite likely this implies that she can not use eagle vision or anything like it.

Desmond replies with 'I don't know'

This I think means that Desmond knows he can do it and has been able to from birth.

In AC1, the game shows that the Animus is the reason Desmond can use eagle vision.

I believe the reason certain people are picked is because they are from Adam and Eve's blood line. (obvious I know just wait)

The Animus can't teach you anything new, it can only make you remember stuff you really didn't know in the first place.

A bit complicated but put it this way, you don't have a memory of your 600 year old ancestor do you.

They are picked due to the fact that they are of that particular ancestors blood line, and that ancestor is a direct descendant of Adam and Eve.
(slightly repetitive, I'm getting there)

So Desmond has the ability to use eagle vision because he could anyway he just didn't know because he didn't know specific details of his ancestors that the Animus can make him re-live (or live, as it is).

J Saint777
12-01-2009, 07:46 PM
Originally posted by Bob_Cats:
So Desmond has the ability to use eagle vision because he could anyway he just didn't know because he didn't know specific details of his ancestors that the Animus can make him re-live (or live, as it is).

Not to dump on your whole thread but it just seems wrong to me. The "Bleeding Effect" is mentioned several times, and it is a symptom Desmond develops more and more as the game progresses. It starts with the Eagle Vision, then evolves into the specter-like images of the Crusades, then gets to the point where he can follow Altair and his bloodline without using the Animus.

These were never abilities Desmond had. He is given them through the Animus. In reality, he's following the same path that Subject 16 fell into. Desmond will soon be overwhelmed with the memories of the past that he will likely go completely insane, unless he learns to control it in a way Subject 16 did not. He also needs to find a way to relay what he saw from 16's messages to Lucy and the other Assassins.

Assassins Creed III should focus on either Desmond using his new skills to find these secret Assassin Vaults, or further use the Animus to pinpoint their exact locations through other memories so Assassin Squads can find them.

The world is coming to an end. No time for messing around in the Animus just for fun.

Grafferu
12-02-2009, 07:09 AM
ok so we're looking at the supreme triad of the "gods" pantheon
we got Jupiter, the principal roman deity, god of the thunderbolt, sky, and storm. He was identified with the etruscan god Tinia and the greek god Zeus.
His wife Juno (identified with etruscan goddess Uni and greek goddess Hera)
their daughter Minerva (etruscan - Menrva, greek - Athena)
ok now, the hologram says she died as Minerva, that means she died during the Roman Empire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
plus she says there were others that turned away from war and protected them (the "gods") and saved them from the fire http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif and desmond must find them (they are still alive http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif )and they left some "work" behind that can save the world...does that mean the "others" were even more advanced then the "gods" ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif
plus we see a Mayan pyramid in the background when she mentions the other temples and Desmond will have to go there in AC3 (senor Desmond, por favor, come to Mexico http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif)
rofl and I loved the way she warned Desmond about "the cross" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

casper13rocks
12-02-2009, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Craddok:
First off, I realize other topics have been posted about this, but this post is to clarify what the generally accepted interpretation of ACII's end and The Truth video seems to be.

From what I can tell, everything started with a race referred to as "The Ones Who Came Before" (to simplify things I'll just call them Gods from now on. Make no mistake, however, they are not gods). They were an extremely advanced civilization, but there is no indication that they were aliens, as some believe. They lived on the Earth long before the mankind was created. And they were created. It seems that these Gods used the Pieces of Eden (an invention of theirs, presumably) to create humans (one of the glyph files suggests that they created them by forcing primates to evolve with the Pieces of Eden) to serve them as slaves. This is suggested by two things: the brief image in The Truth of humans working, overseen by a shadowy figure (the god Minerva, according to some official concept art) holding an Apple of Eden (The Piece of Eden that is shaped like a sphere) and by a glyph file containing an article from a medical journal stating that a seemingly useless neurotransmitter had been found in the human brain. The glyph file goes on to suggest that this neurotransmitter is there because mankind was designed to be controlled by the Pieces of Eden.

Eventually one of the gods mated with a human, producing Adam and Eve (whether they were siblings or completely unrelated is unknown and irrelevant) who were basically the original Assassins, or the "The Children of Two Worlds" as one Glyph file puts it. This is why Assassins have such remarkable abilities, like Eagle Vision and unnatural agility. I've heard that Ubisoft said that another attribute of this new race is their immunity to the Mind Control capabilities of the Pieces of Eden, but I cannot find the quote (if anyone has it, post it please). I don't quite understand that since you see plenty of Assassins being controlled by Al Mualim in the first game, and Adam and Eve could easily be immune because they hold a Piece of Eden (and Ezio demonstrates that one Piece can in fact block another during the fight with the Maestro). Anyways, Adam and Eve steal a Piece of Eden and escape with it, either freeing the humans in the process or returning later to do so. This sparks a war between the powerful gods and the innumerable humans.

At some point during this war, a devastating cosmic event happens, and the Earth burns (this event is definitely caused by the Sun - probably an incredibly large solar flare). Humans and Gods alike are nearly killed off entirely, but a few members of each race survive and slowly rebuild. But, for an unexplained reason, the Gods never fully recover and eventually die off, while the humans prosper (and their Assassin protectors). The hologram of Minerva that Ezio meets in the Vault seems to be some kind of AI left behind by the Gods once they had accepted their fate... nothing more than an interactive message, really. The thing that was the most confusing for many was the fact that Minerva talked to Desmond through Ezio. This is a complicated topic and everything I have to say about it is inferred, so I could very easily be wrong. The most likely answer is that the Gods had achieved some level of prescience (that is, the ability to see glimpses of the future) but this power must have been quite limited, or it was not developed until after the catastrophe, because if their prescience had existed beforehand and it had been absolute they would have foreseen the catastrophe and avoided it. This aptitude for prescience seems to be derived from the Gods' apparent tendency to "perceive time differently", rather than our human tendency to see time as absolutely linear and totally inexorable. It is also connected to the Pieces of Eden, somehow. Altair wrote in one of the pages of his Codex that "the Apple is more than a catalogue of that which precedes us. Within its twisting, sparking innards I've caught glimpses of what will be". Whether the Gods had their prescience because of the Pieces of Eden or, more likely, the other way around is unknown. As for the reason Minerva talked to Desmond, she was simply delivering a warning and decided that talking to an Assassin through that Assassin's ancestor was a secure way to communicate.

EDIT: I've also heard some say that there were three people in The Truth video, Adam, Eve, and an unnamed third person from whose eyes we see the whole video. I don't believe this to the case. Firstly, The Animus displays things in third person (though it could be argued that this is for the sake of gameplay and that in the "pure" Assassin's Creed universe this is not the case). Secondly; remember that Subject Sixteen is in fact an Assassin and is therefore a descendant of Adam and Eve, the first Assassins, so he could easily be viewing the memories of either one of them, rather than a third, random Assassin. And third, the camera occasionally does things that a first person camera couldn't do (i.e. zoom out to show the whole complex when Adam and Eve reach the roof, or when the camera flies between the two while they are running fairly close together).

As for the Templars, they seem to have no connection to the Gods other than their use of the Pieces of Eden. They do know about the true origin of humanity (this is revealed through a letter from Abstergo seen in a Glyph file) but they have no direct connection to it.

Hopefully this helps, and hopefully it wasn't completely redundant. Feel free to ask questions or correct any mistakes I've made (or just discuss any viable alternatives to the interpretation above). Thanks to Cornik22 for helping to refine this post and for some addition information. Minerva hint's that had the power to forsee the destruction but thay were distracted by the war and by the time that thay noticet it was to late to prevent.

Grafferu
12-03-2009, 01:01 PM
I have a hint that the story is heading towards the idea that in 2012 another sun flare is gonna hit the Earth like Minerva hinted, and Desmond must stop it. How ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

AndrosHanarak
12-04-2009, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by Grafferu:
I have a hint that the story is heading towards the idea that in 2012 another sun flare is gonna hit the Earth like Minerva hinted, and Desmond must stop it. How ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Perhaps the temples around the globe hold the information to build a amchine that can stabilize the sun and break this 26k year cicle?

xray_4
12-05-2009, 01:29 PM
I was thinking maybe that the truth video we see is actually subject 16 and a female love interest that are escaping after he finds/steals the apple. Mabye that is how they knew about Desmond, if 16 and Desmond are related that is.

What I don't get is why are the Templars wanting to keep a possible solar flare a secert? I know there thing is all about control and power but what good is that if the Earth is destroyed with everything living on it. Unless they want to be viewed as the worlds saviors.

Mr-Pie
12-05-2009, 01:40 PM
If you remember a long time ago back in AC1 on the floor of Desmond's room in Abstergo, one of the coded blocks of 16's blood states "Artefacts sent to the skies to control all nation, to make us obey a hidden crusade. Do not help them."
The Artefacts are the POE (duh.)and one of Vidic's emails from his PC says on 21/9/2012 they need to launch, possibly to stabilize the sun from the solar flare (possibly 21/12/2012?) but then subliminally control us like in the time of the first civilisation? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

@casper13rocks: Why quote the whole thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Mr-Pie
12-05-2009, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by xray_4:
I was thinking maybe that the truth video we see is actually subject 16 and a female love interest that are escaping after he finds/steals the apple.

Clearly not, as at the end of the truth video they identify each other as Adam and Eve.
Sorry for double post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

xray_4
12-05-2009, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by Mr-Pie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xray_4:
I was thinking maybe that the truth video we see is actually subject 16 and a female love interest that are escaping after he finds/steals the apple.

Clearly not, as at the end of the truth video they identify each other as Adam and Eve.
Sorry for double post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I missed that but I still wonder where this video comes from in the first place. Something 16 found from traveling in his past?

Mr-Pie
12-06-2009, 03:57 AM
Originally posted by xray_4:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr-Pie:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xray_4:
I was thinking maybe that the truth video we see is actually subject 16 and a female love interest that are escaping after he finds/steals the apple.

Clearly not, as at the end of the truth video they identify each other as Adam and Eve.
Sorry for double post http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh I missed that but I still wonder where this video comes from in the first place. Something 16 found from traveling in his past? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
At the start of the Truth he says that he knows the truth of what is happening so thats possible I guess, but it says that his ancestors and his life had become blurred together, so perhaps he saw the truth in one of his visions? After all, we do see how Altair carries on the assassin line in Desmonds Vision... Maybe, because he could hack the Animus, he could access his memory to stick it in the Truth part... humm http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

wason533
12-06-2009, 09:22 AM
impressive!~I just didn't quite figure it out

Craddok
12-07-2009, 12:25 AM
xray_4:
The people in The Truth are Adam and Eve (though not as we know them - see the opening post) and it comes from one of Subject Sixteen's sessions in the Animas (all Animas sessions are recorded on video). He could have accessed that memory on his since he obviously snuck around Abstergo a lot, but since the date displayed at the beginning is classified, it was probably an official Abstergo session. I'm not sure if the Templars even know about the Solar Flare (they didn't access the Vault, after all) but if they did then Mr-Pie's post sounds reasonable enough.

goldnknight22
12-07-2009, 08:34 PM
A few things I just want to touch on:

-The Truth video was from Subject 16's official animus sessions. There's no debate here.

-This means that Abstergo has known about the Truth. And that there was previously an advanced civilization. What they took from it beyond that is unclear, obviously. They may not even understand that Adam&Eve are the cross-breed between the human slaves and the "gods". As I recall, there's nothing else that would truly suggest Abstergo knowing about these "gods". Sure you see a dark figure holding a PoE.. but there's nothing indicating that it is certainly not human. Only from Minerva do we learn about this part.

-Remember that Subject 16 placed the glyphs into the animus data. Abstergo does not know about them, because the memories cannot be obtained without Desmond (or another subject).

-The Templars DO NOT have any knowledge of the solar flares. Neither the one that took place 26k years ago, nor the one that might take place in the future. All they are after is power and control, and they know that the PoE are the key to do so. Having these PoE's is the center of their plans that Vidic talks about with the guys in suits.

-Abstergo DOES know about the "gods" civilization. A LOT more than the bits we get to see from the Truth. There was certainly a lot more depth to the memories that subject 16 experienced about Adam/Eve, and we can infer the Abstergo knows PLENTY about the "Beginning". However....

-They still do not know anything about Minerva revealing herself to Ezio. They know plenty about the beginning, surely, thanks to subject 16. But they don't know any of the information about the task at hand for Desmond.



My question is this: So subject 16 was able to access the memories of Adam/Eve. If Desmond is a descendent of Ezio and Altair, who are descendents of the true bloodline of Adam & Eve, why can't Desmond relive the SAME memories that subject 16 did? If they are of the same bloodline, it all traces back to Adam and/or Eve. Why is there a need for the Truth video when Desmond should have the same capability of accessing these memories? Am I missing something? I thought I had a pretty solid understanding of everything. Let me know what you think.

JudgeQwerty
12-07-2009, 08:47 PM
Originally posted by goldnknight22:
A few things I just want to touch on:
My question is this: So subject 16 was able to access the memories of Adam/Eve. If Desmond is a descendent of Ezio and Altair, who are descendents of the true bloodline of Adam & Eve, why can't Desmond relive the SAME memories that subject 16 did? If they are of the same bloodline, it all traces back to Adam and/or Eve. Why is there a need for the Truth video when Desmond should have the same capability of accessing these memories? Am I missing something? I thought I had a pretty solid understanding of everything. Let me know what you think.

I agree with most of your statements, aside friom the Adam & Eve bit. As for your last question, remember that Desmond would never have had to become Ezio unless 16 had grown obssessed with him in the first place. Otherwise, he would have no reason to.

goldnknight22
12-07-2009, 09:30 PM
Yeah, Lucy knew they had to go back to Italy, because there was something important to be found there.

Wait a minute... so subject 16 was reliving Ezio's memories?? Just like Desmond?

He just didn't get far enough to discover the vault & Minerva? And went crazy before that part?

Gahh. I think I just confused the ish out of myself.

I wish I knew more about the memories subject 16 got to see. How did he know where to stick the glyphs into the animus, and knowing that someone after him would find them there?

JudgeQwerty
12-07-2009, 09:39 PM
Well, hiding the glyphs would probably be the easiest part. He only put them on fanmous hard-to-miss buildings that Ezio came across. Yes, its a video game with fee roam, but a person's life is linear. Ezio goes from Firenze to the villa to San Gimignano back to Firenze back to San Gimignano, then to Forli and Venezia.

As for someone else finding them, he probably just hoped.

goldnknight22
12-09-2009, 03:23 PM
BUMP.

....There's still no making sense of why Desmond wouldn't be able to see the memories of Adam/Eve if he is in fact from that same bloodline (just like subject 16)

Craddok
12-12-2009, 02:27 AM
Goldnknight22:

First off, thanks for touching on those points in your first post. Saves me some trouble.

As for your question: I'm pretty sure that Desmond can access Adam and Eve's memories. If I understand the game correctly then he is descended from them. But so far he hasn't access their memories because he had no need to. The Templars had him relive Altair's memories to find another Piece of Eden, and the Assassins had him relive Ezio's memories to train him as an assassin and to investigate Subject Sixteen's interest in Italy. The Truth is necessary because it points the memory out to Desmond and the Assassins. They'd have never bothered to look at such an ancient and seemingly irrelevant memory otherwise. And we know Subject Sixteen spent a lot of time in Italy... it may or may not have been through Ezio's memories (although he do know from the short-lived Abstergo Animus session that Ezio is Subject Sixteen's ancestor too). We're not sure if he accessed the Vault through Ezio, although Lucy thinks he knew of the Vault, at least. One of the Glyph files suggests that he knows about the impending catastrophe, but that could be from his exploration of memories from the time of the previous catastrophe.

goldnknight22
12-14-2009, 12:04 PM
Ah, yes, those points all make sense. Thanks for replying Craddok. I like when people can actually talk sense....

So that was what I hadn't wrapped my head around yet. That Desmond probably COULD revisit A&E's memories. But you're right, assuming that The Truth isn't viewed until the very end of the game, the assassins wouldn't know to look at those memories. Makes perfect sense.

And I agree, subject 16 probably knew of the vault, whether through Ezio or otherwise, but I think that he was not able to get to that point. Remember, the dude went crazy and wasn't able to control his thoughts. He had to put the clues out there so that someone else could continue. OR, he simply didn't want to continue with the animus sessions, and let Abstergo gain the knowledge that lies within these memories. He was obviously aware enough to be keeping as much information from Abstergo as possible.

Sorry this is a long post. But I have one more thought for someone to respond to:

What is the significance of the black background when subject 16 speaks at the beginning of the glyph puzzles? Looks like a bunch of metal rods or something... is there any reasoning behind this? Or was it just something to put on the screen while Sub 16 spoke?

Thanks for reading. Cheers.

Craddok
12-16-2009, 10:21 AM
What is the significance of the black background when subject 16 speaks at the beginning of the glyph puzzles? Looks like a bunch of metal rods or something... is there any reasoning behind this? Or was it just something to put on the screen while Sub 16 spoke?

As far as I can tell, that's just a random background they threw in so we'd have something to look at while he spoke. But I could be wrong. Maybe someone else has found some significance to it.

Brett_Master5
12-21-2009, 05:43 AM
Craddock and Goldknight22:

There is no indication that Desmond is anyway linked to Adam and Eve at all. Remember the glyph puzzle about the "Gods" having sex with the humans? This means that there were other half-breeds like Adam and Eve. Mythological figures such as Perseus and Hercules could invariably be called Assasins because of this. It just so happened that Adam and Eve were Subject 16's ancestors. I think that Abstergo knew of the truth as in of the glyph files it mentions that they put an ape like skeleton in the desert to cover the truth of human origin, and I think they knew that a catastrophe took place, else the glyph puzzle about the volcano explosion would not have been in the file. Whether Abstergo and the other Templars know of the impending doom is unclear though.

Someone at the start of the thread touched on whether the assassins had resistance to the Pieces of Eden's mind control ability. Well that is a definite ability of the Assassin Bloodline. Else time and again Altair would not have been able to resist the Piece of Eden. Especially at the end of AC1.

One possibility why subject 16 spent time in Italy. He is the descendant of Dante Aligheri. Dante Aliegheri is the one who taught Ezio's great-great grandfather the ways of the Assassins and the about the order to pass onto his sons. So it's quite possible this is how 16 became fascinated with Italy.

Datelus
12-21-2009, 04:33 PM
Ok this could be long....
(I would check some of the stuff out, but ps3 decided it wanted to stop playing games =( )

These are only my opinions/ thought processes.

First: Unless I missed something, what is stopping Desmond from going back to his "The race that came before" (going to use gods from now on... a lot shorter to type) ancestors?

I know by the story standpoint, it most likely would be pointless. Just throwing it out there for input.

2nd: If I remember correctly the animus was basically forgotten technology from the "gods", that humanity eventually figured out how to recreate.

Could this be how they could see the future. (there version allowed them to also go to their descendants.)

3rd: Cain and Abel... Abel was an assassin, who was in turn killed by his brother Cain. Cain then became the first templar.

This supposedly happened long before Altair's time. Is this before or after random people started to follow the assassin's creed?

If its before, could there be a templar out there with eagle vision, ect?


That's all for now, I had another 5-6 things... but forgot about them ><

StrikeEagleOne
12-21-2009, 04:47 PM
Brett_Master5:

You bring up an excellent point regarding the multiple possible bloodlines generated from the mating between the ones we are referring to as "gods" and the humans. In fact, the glyph puzzle entitled "Bloodlines" speaks of "seeds being planted" and "two worlds" coming together, and has you choose five painting all depicting gods mating with humans. Seeing this, it is clear that Adam and Eve are not the only descendants of "God"/human parents, and your theory on other demi-"God" bloodlines is therefore correct (and ingenious, by the way). Realizing that there are multiple half-"God" bloodlines opens up numerous other possibilities and explanations to questions we until now had no answer for, such as why some people are not effected by the mind control of the PoE in AC1 (notably the Assassins who save Altair just before he confronts Al-Mualim). We can infer that these particular Assassins were all descended from other half-"God" bloodlines and their neurotransmitters responsible for responding to the PoE are therefore inhibited.

However, I do believe that there is in fact indication to Desmond's link to the Adam and Eve bloodline. Craddok actually mentioned this as well, but in the beginning of the game Lucy searches for a genetic memory match between Subject 16 and Desmond, and finds one with Ezio. And if Ezio was ancestor to both 16 and Desmond, we can conclude that they are in fact part of the same bloodline (that of A&E). Because of this, I believe that Desmond can also re-live the genetic memory of Adam or Eve as 16 did.

...And with the viewing of 16's Animus session, Desmond would now have reason to re-live this particular memory, to find the truth behind the "Gods" and the birth of humanity as we know it, as well as information about the celestial event that wiped out the "Gods" that could be used to help save the earth back in 2012.

That would be one hell of a setting for AC3... Playing as Adam, the very first "Assassin" in a futuristic civilization from millenia ago... Avoiding the "gods" and discovering the truth behind humanity. I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

Pendragon_082
12-21-2009, 10:29 PM
Alright, Im not sure about this, but you said that ALL Assassins are descendants of Adam and Eve. I do not believe this is the case, I think that there is a family within the Order descended from Adam and Eve, and the rest have joined the cause. This is evidenced as the Piece of the Eden in ACI does affect most Assassins, just not Altair. Also, Altair, Ezio, and Desmond all have the Eagle Vision, but not others, showing a special power in their heritage.

Brett_Master5
12-21-2009, 11:50 PM
I'll answer the Pendragon_082 first because it's the most simplest and shortest answer.

There are two very seperate orders within the Assassins. The first are the Assassins such as Lucy, Shaun, Rebecca, Malik, Machiavelli, La Volpe, et al. They play the role of the help and intelligence in their respective time lines. They are full blooded human beings. They are susceptible to all the powers of all Pieces of Eden. The second group within the Assassins are those from the what is called the Assassin Bloodline. They are the ones with Eagle vision, enhanced agility etc. Ezio, Desmond, Altair, Subject 16, Adam, Eve etc. They can resist some of the powers of the Pieces of Eden due to their lineage back to the Those Who Came Before/Gods or whatever you want to call them.

Now for the long winded answer to StrikeEagleOne. I missed the part about the genetic memory match part http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif. However it is quite possible that neither 16 or Desmond are related to each other directly from Adam and Eve. It's quite possible that the convergence is at Ezio's father and Ezio's mother. I can not say for sure, but it would be my best guess. If Lucy had searched for the match then the "best possible match" would have been Adam and Eve's child not Ezio.

I'm sure there are people out there that would be all like "but his mother would have known she was an assassin." Quite the contrary. Ezio's great great grandfather didn't know of his legacy until Marco Polo and Dante Aligheri mentored him.

Those are my guesses and answers. In my opinion they are quite accurate, but could also be a mile away from the truth.

Bampire
12-22-2009, 02:30 AM
Originally posted by Craddok:
Although of seemingly little consequence, I was wondering how exactly it is that Desmond has the exact same scar on his mouth that Ezio received in the beginning of AC2? Genetics seems impossible, and transmission through the Animus is an idea(since I don"t remember seeing the scar on Desmond's character model in AC1, but throughout AC2), or perhaps there is a deeper meaning for this strange physical likeness...or maybe the designers simply wanted Desmond to have the same look as Ezio...however that doesn't explain the strong cinematic and story line emphasis on Ezio's scar in the beginning of AC2....

Anyway, any thoughts?

I had to comment on this: This is my thoery of why Desmond, Altair, and Ezio have the same facial features and scar. There's a high possibility that these 3 characters are 1 person. Reincarnations, passing on through out centuries into different bodies, and experiences until the right generation. The time where he's truly needed, he's discovering everything within each lifetime given.

Though, that's my personal opinion and thought about that.

OzDavis
12-22-2009, 02:57 AM
Originally posted by Brett_Master5:
If Lucy had searched for the match then the "best possible match" would have been Adam and Eve's child not Ezio. Except that she could have been specifically searching for an Italian, given her statement about how Subject 16 ended up being "obsessed with Italy" (during Desmond's training session outside the animus - right before the dream sequence in Acre).

AssassinJF13
12-22-2009, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Bampire:
I had to comment on this: This is my thoery of why Desmond, Altair, and Ezio have the same facial features and scar. There's a high possibility that these 3 characters are 1 person. Reincarnations, passing on through out centuries into different bodies, and experiences until the right generation. The time where he's truly needed, he's discovering everything within each lifetime given.

Though, that's my personal opinion and thought about that.

I don't think the answer is reincarnation. I got a sense that Assassin's Creed 2 was proving (within their game of course) that science is the truth in this world. They guide you to believe there is no god, only enhanced beings who were worshipped as gods by ordinary people. Also, that last glyph puzzle, the letter from i forget who it was, talked about the truth about the birth of hummanity would cause chaos, and that the truth makes him sick.

Also, the puzzle a picture of a monkey, and you moved your cursor over the monkey's bones and they transformed into a human skeleton, pointing to the theory of evolution, not god.

Then the truth containing Adam and Eve being assassin's, the "Garden of Eden", not being so much of a garden, a factory, where it appears a more advanced civilization produced the pieces of eden.

Along with that, we KNOW that Altair is Ezio's great great great grandfather (idk how many generations), and Dezmond is obviously related to both of them, hence them being his ancestors.

Brett_Master5
12-23-2009, 05:30 AM
There are quite a few reasons for Ezio being chosen I guess.

Also, I have a suspicion and I'm not sure if anyone shares it, however insane 16 is, he had the power to manipulate his ancestors.

Now I know he hacked into the terminal and put in the files and coding, however, the glyphs were in certain spots in Italy. That would mean that the ancestor would have had to do go to the appropriate locations and scribe the symbols into the walls. It's clear that 16 could enter his memories anytime he wanted so it's possible he could have controlled the ancestor then, and when it came time to hack the files into the animus he connected the for the files to those symbols.

As far as the scar on their mouths go, I think it's just a coincedence. I know it was a conscience decision on the part of Ubisoft, but in the game world, it's just coincidence.

Datelus
12-23-2009, 07:58 AM
Also, I have a suspicion and I'm not sure if anyone shares it, however insane 16 is, he had the power to manipulate his ancestors.


PS3 is dead atm so I cannot check...
I thought subject 16 wrote the glyphs into the animus program.
And when they escaped they took the file along with them and loaded it into the new animus. (they had the animus 2.0 already, But IIRC they downloaded something before escaping and loaded it into their animus.)


Edit: I fail at using quote...

P459
12-23-2009, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by Datelus:

Also, I have a suspicion and I'm not sure if anyone shares it, however insane 16 is, he had the power to manipulate his ancestors.


PS3 is dead atm so I cannot check...
I thought subject 16 wrote the glyphs into the animus program.
And when they escaped they took the file along with them and loaded it into the new animus. (they had the animus 2.0 already, But IIRC they downloaded something before escaping and loaded it into their animus.)


Edit: I fail at using quote...

I dont think he manipulated his ancestors. I dont think thats possible.
If I remember right then in one of the glyphs he says: "Hacking into the Animus gets easier and easier"

Xios1986
12-23-2009, 07:41 PM
wow, so theres another discussion... i should have guessed lol...

i recon i'm going to go over sheit loads of different points and write them all down, try and come points of clarity and compile an 'official - unofficial' theory of 'the Creed sheit'

lol

Keeno_x
12-25-2009, 05:59 AM
Hi everyone. This is my first post, but I've been browsing these forums for a while, and this thread specifically caught my eye, as I haven't had AC2 too long and I'm intrigued with this whole conspiracy theory. I've done a bit of investigation myself, and after reading this thread, these are my thoughts.

Obviously the people in the video are Adam and Eve, with the apple, escaping from the "Garden" in where Minerva is using a POE to control the humans. Desmond is directly related to Altair and Ezzy, which is why he's been chosen, as the other Assisins aren't directly related. (This has already been said)

However, the thing that I'd like to contribute to is the part where Minerva warns Desmond about the catastrophe. It only has been fleetingly mentioned on this thread (I think) but I think the event that wiped out the OWCB4 race and the one that Minerva warns of is infact the 2012 theory.


Originally posted by Mr-Pie:
The Artefacts are the POE (duh.)and one of Vidic's emails from his PC says on 21/9/2012 they need to launch, possibly to stabilize the sun from the solar flare (possibly 21/12/2012?) but then subliminally control us like in the time of the first civilisation? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif


The bit in bold intrests me. 21-9=12, no? Which would make the date 21/12/2012, the date in which the mysterious event is supposed to take place. Could this be the catastrophe Minerva is refering to? So was it the 2012 cycle which destoryed the Ancients, and can whatever is in these tombs stop it from happening? The Nazca lines are interesting, could they be connected to this Mayan pyramid mentioned earlier? The are meant to line up with the stars/sun.

Just something to think about, maybe leading to AC3??

Craddok
12-25-2009, 02:32 PM
Keeno_X:
The "modern" plot does seem to have some parallels with the 2012 conspiracy. The events of the "modern" plot do occur in the year 2012, and various emails on Vidic's computer (in AC1) tell us that the world's more or less going to hell. A new plague wiped out 98% of Africa's population. Americans are fleeing the county and are seeking refuge in, ironically, Mexico. The weather has become erratic and dangerous, with hurricanes occurring often and year-round.

That said, Mr-Pie's date was a little off. The emails actually says that the launch date for Abstergo's satellite is December 21, 2012.


And while I'm on the subject of the 2012 thory, I'd like to point out that Abstergo probably does not know about the impending catastrophe. All of AC1's emails suggest that the satellite launch is supposed to give the Templars complete control of humanity. I haven't seen anything to indicate that they know of the solar flare.

Maermaethor
08-06-2010, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by AssassinJF13:

I don't think the answer is reincarnation. I got a sense that Assassin's Creed 2 was proving (within their game of course) that science is the truth in this world. They guide you to believe there is no god, only enhanced beings who were worshipped as gods by ordinary people. Also, that last glyph puzzle, the letter from i forget who it was, talked about the truth about the birth of hummanity would cause chaos, and that the truth makes him sick.

Also, the puzzle a picture of a monkey, and you moved your cursor over the monkey's bones and they transformed into a human skeleton, pointing to the theory of evolution, not god.

The game doesn't indicate that science is the absolute truth. It says that NOTHING is true. They are saying all the religions are wrong, but science is also wrong. We didn't evolve from apes according to this game, we were CREATED by other beings. It says in the glyphs that there is a useless neurowhatever in humans and that the "missing link" was put there by templars, showing that evolution is not the answer either. The thing where it transforms into a human skeleton, you use the piece of eden to do it, which creates ILLUSIONS, pointing to the fact that humans evolving from apes is not real just like all the religions of the world.

Squad14Scouter
08-21-2010, 06:15 AM
Dudes, this is by far the best assassins creed discussion ive read so far :-))))) XD ;-)

HAIL UBISOFT

Caligula__
08-22-2010, 01:44 AM
apparently u can poison Rodrigo Borgia in the last level and then u get his Papal Staff/Staff of Eden, stats are maxed out like Altair's Sword but you can't use the Eden-y powers