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redhornet07
10-26-2008, 12:11 AM
I've had IL2 loaded on the computer for about a month now and I've been "flying" a P51D for about 2 weeks and I've only just shot down my first plane ever. An A5M. Pilot level set on "rookie".

I've been using the quick mission builder to practice takeoff, flying straight and landing. A couple days ago I decided to try fighting another plane and I've mostly got into a bunch of stalls that result in a crashy crash. Tonight, however, I was actually able to shoot down the other plane (by total luck I'll ad).

Well, off to bed to get ready for more flight and combat training tomorrow!

Stingray333
10-26-2008, 12:22 AM
Congrats on your first kill, keep at it! This game is indeed challenging, but keep in mind, the reason this game is so popular, and there are folks on this forum who have been playing it for over 5 years is that level of difficulty, especially when playing against human opponents! If the game was easy, we would all play it for a few weeks, then put it aside!

You are probably at the point where you are about to make a "break through" where you begin start regularly shooting down enemy planes, so don't despair! Keep at it.

If you haven't already, read through the Nuggets Guide to Getting off the Ground: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9121094645

particularly the document "In Pursuit: An Online Pilot's Guide to Aerial Combat" <-- there is an absolute ton of information in that document for the beginner pilot.

Also, you might try experimenting with flying different plane types. I found the P-51 to be quite tricky when I was first starting out. Although it has the potential to be an absolutely devastatingly powerful plane, it has some characteristics that can be tricky, namely its tendency to enter a stall/spin.

Everyone has their favorites of course, but I'd recommend some good planes to try out at the start are the Zero (A6M5) and the BF-109E or BF-109F. These may not be the absolute best planes, but they have pretty forgiving flight characteristics, and, although aren't the "best" in any one category, they are planes that sort of do everything "ok". Particularly the BF-109 with the automatic prop-pitch and mixture control relieve some of the duties of the pilot during combat (and the big ole' cannon it has is nice too!)

Load up missions in the quick mission builder with some bombers with empty guns, so you won't get shot at, and work on hitting them. Then work on bombers that have guns, then work on a few "rookie" enemy planes that maybe are a few years older to your plane and are inferior models, and slowly build up the skill of the A.I. pilot and increase the quality of the planes they are flying.

Keep reading, recording tracks of your flying, critiquing yourself, reading the forum! Keep at it yo,

Stingray

Treetop64
10-26-2008, 01:19 AM
The QMB is the best way to learn to fly and fight in this sim, and quick fun, too.

Friendly_flyer
10-26-2008, 02:32 AM
You've jumped in a the deep end Redhornet. As Stingray wrote, the P-51 is not an easy plane to master. I'd suggest starting up with something a tad more forgiving. If you don't like the Axis planes, the Spitfire (particularly the Mk.VIII) or one of the Russian LaGG marks are very pleasant to fly. Personally I'd recommend the Hurricane Mk.IIc. While it will occasionally stall out on you, it is fairly easy to recover, and the canons do short work of any enemy.

dirkpit7
10-26-2008, 04:03 AM
As has been said, the Mustang is not a good choice for new pilots. If you prefer US planes, you can practice in the P-40. It's easy and pleasant to fly (even noted as such in the game manual) and has adequate performance in the early years of war. It's also similar to the P-51 in many accounts (engine management, armament) and this may help you later with the Mustang.

TheCrux
10-26-2008, 06:57 AM
Very good replies so far.

Look, an aircraft's "on paper" performance stats are far too broadly expressed to make a judgment on. Now, since you're new, I may be assuming things you might think. You may be thinking: Hey, a P-51D can do 437 MPH and the A6M5 Zero can only do 351 MPH....it oughtta' be a walk-over ( hold the "the P-51 won the war cracks wise-guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ) But in the skies where it really happens. when aircraft are most often in very transitional stages of flight....it aint that simple. The P-51's greater speed advantage is to a good measure ( which can vary in itself ) much nullified if you figure you can "bank & yank" ( basically try to follow the Zero's evasive moves with an attempt to keep the gunsight on target ) and you may find your rate of acceleration is slower than a Zero's cannon round velocity.

To put it in more practical terms. I can't count the number of times online while flying an earlier A6M2 Zero that I've bagged "faster" P-40's because as I was chasing them and trying to get within gunsight range and becoming aware they were pulling ahead: They climbed and turned; eliciting a "thank you" from me as he reared up and made it easier for my lower wing oading and better climb to easily close to gun range with him proving such a nice broad target..

By the same token. I've lost count on how many times a well flown Hellcat ran away from my later model Zero...only to come at me later from an altitude and speed advantage with me frantically trying to evade...with the knowledge that if he continued the same tactics; I'm as good as gone if I don't reach my airfieled ( and friendly AA, or friendly fighters. )

Restraint is the name of the game.

Divine-Wind
10-26-2008, 07:03 AM
The P-40 is a great plane... Stable, good firepower, and it just looks awesome. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

LW_lcarp
10-26-2008, 07:27 AM
If your like me why start out with easy planes. Find the hardest plane to fly get good at it and then the others are a breeze to fly. So dont let em talk ya into flying an "easy" plane to fly as most never get out of it.

Xiolablu3
10-26-2008, 07:28 AM
P51 vs Zero is EXTREMELY hard for a new pilot, congrats.

As the Zero turns far better than the P51, its very hard for a new pilot to gain an advantage, as the temptation is just to turn and turn.

Try flying a good turner instead such as the Spitfire IX vs FW190 or 109 for a while. This should be much easier as the SPit can turn tighter than the other 2, and this will let you practice your gunnery.

P51 vs Zero needs quite a large understanding of air combat for the P51 pilot to win, becasue the P51 is not a great turner, adn the Zero is very very manouverable.

For the P51 you need to understand how to use energy/speed/height, which a beginner needs time to pick up.

M_Gunz
10-26-2008, 08:09 AM
Originally posted by LW_lcarp:
If your like me why start out with easy planes. Find the hardest plane to fly get good at it and then the others are a breeze to fly. So dont let em talk ya into flying an "easy" plane to fly as most never get out of it.

They don't all fly the same way so good at some tricky one is not good at every other.

Ditto very much for gunnery.

redhornet07
10-26-2008, 10:20 AM
Wow! Thanks for the encouragement guys! I'm doing more flight training today.

I have tried the P40 and some other earlier planes, but I chose the P51D because it is so difficult to fly. I wanted to improve at a faster rate and I thought that if I can learn to handle a difficult plane then I should be able to handle the others without much of a problem. Maybe I need a re-think on that... The other issue I'm having is that it's quite difficult to have good SA with the way the views are setup. I've got about $100 saved up and when I've got $150 I'm getting TIR4 (with the 3 LED headset clip). I figure that will help enormously, as I'll be able to actually employ some Boom and Zoom tactics (like what is suggested in "In Pursuit") far more easily.

Just to clarify, I shot down an A5M with the non-retracable undercarriage, a "Nate" I think.

Thanks again for all the encouragement and suggestions!

dirkpit7
10-26-2008, 12:01 PM
The codename of A5M is Claude. Nate means Ki-27.

Divine-Wind
10-26-2008, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by redhornet07:
Wow! Thanks for the encouragement guys! I'm doing more flight training today.

I have tried the P40 and some other earlier planes, but I chose the P51D because it is so difficult to fly. I wanted to improve at a faster rate and I thought that if I can learn to handle a difficult plane then I should be able to handle the others without much of a problem. Maybe I need a re-think on that... The other issue I'm having is that it's quite difficult to have good SA with the way the views are setup. I've got about $100 saved up and when I've got $150 I'm getting TIR4 (with the 3 LED headset clip). I figure that will help enormously, as I'll be able to actually employ some Boom and Zoom tactics (like what is suggested in "In Pursuit") far more easily.
I thought TrackIR lowered the price on their TIR4s a while ago? Maybe it was just a limited-time offer, or maybe I'm just plain wrong. I wish I had the headset clip myself (And an over-the-top headset to use it with...), as it is I get to put on a hat and look funneh if I want to use the TIR. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

F0_Dark_P
10-26-2008, 06:13 PM
Why just fighters?, bombers is the way to go! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

So be a real man, fly a bomber!

P.FunkAdelic
10-26-2008, 06:13 PM
I managed to shoot down human pilots rather quickly after starting to fly IL-2. In just a week of being online I had a handful of kills. But then I was reading like a monster for weeks before I ever had the game in hand or installed.

I realized early on that the hardest part of flying is overcoming the many great intellectual barriers that we confront when flying that are totally alien to anything else. This 3 dimensional environment, while we hear about it all the time and think we get it, really is hard to get used to. Also energy management is such a crucial element. Knowing how to keep fast, stay high, not burn out your engine, and still get a kill, all keeping that in mind... that takes forever practically.

Then I also went the other way, not turning and burning but flying high in a 109 and BnZing it. Maybe I'll find in the end that I have good energy management but terrible turning instincts.

But read as much of the stuff these guys link you to as you can. Read it again after a few weeks. So much you think you know you don't understand til you've been in a few situations that suddenly put a light over your cockpit and make you realize your mistakes.

redhornet07
10-26-2008, 07:52 PM
I thought TrackIR lowered the price on their TIR4s a while ago? Maybe it was just a limited-time offer, or maybe I'm just plain wrong. I wish I had the headset clip myself (And an over-the-top headset to use it with...), as it is I get to put on a hat and look funneh if I want to use the TIR. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

The price has been lowered. They offer a package now where you get TIR4 bundled with the LED headset clip for $149.99. Killer deal.

Thanks again guys. I just can't beleive this sim. The last time I was seriously flying sims was with the Aces series from Dynamix, and my God how things have improved. For the better part of the 90's and early 2000's I got distracted with space "sims" like the Wing Commander series and Star Wars, etc. When I saw a couple of videos on Youtube about this sim called IL2, my WW2 flight passion was reignited. I don't think I'll go back to space "sims" again.

Jaws2002
10-26-2008, 08:28 PM
Congratulations on your first kill. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif
Many thousands will follow!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Just keep at it. Read, fly, record tracks, watch them from external view to have a better understanding what was going on around you, or by how much you missed that shot. It helps a lot.

Another thing about situational awareness. fly in the widest mode. Use the zoom only to identify a plane or when you have a clean shot. You get a better feel of the speed in wide view and can get metter deflection shots.

Ah BTW. Do they argue about the flight models on the Space "sims" too? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Good luck and have a lot of fun!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Skoshi Tiger
10-26-2008, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:

Ah BTW. Do they argue about the flight models on the Space "sims" too? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yes! and the proto torpedoes on that X-Wing are porked!!!!

redhornet07
10-28-2008, 10:26 PM
Well, well, well!

Taking some of your suggestions, I just tried an FW190 and now I know what some of you are on about! Very nice to fly and the firepower, holy moly! Veeeeeeeerrrrrrryyy easy to get addicted to!

I just went online for the first time as well, didn't do so hot. I shot up an enemy ship, got hit with some AA and limping my way back to my airfield I was gunned down. And it was a Blast!

I'll be doing ALOT more offline practice before I go back online.

Man, this sim is just amazing!

Xiolablu3
10-28-2008, 11:21 PM
Good job mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


The thing about most online servers is that its all about what difficulty settings the servers have.

SOme have 'no cockpit'(I think its ctrl-F1 to switch it off?) and externals (F keys) and padlock (f6,f7)

SOme have externals on but cockpit on.

SOme have full realistic settings where track IR and other 'gadgets' are used by most of the flyers.

na85
10-28-2008, 11:54 PM
Originally posted by redhornet07:
I've had IL2 loaded on the computer for about a month now and I've been "flying" a P51D for about 2 weeks and I've only just shot down my first plane ever. An A5M. Pilot level set on "rookie".

I've been using the quick mission builder to practice takeoff, flying straight and landing. A couple days ago I decided to try fighting another plane and I've mostly got into a bunch of stalls that result in a crashy crash. Tonight, however, I was actually able to shoot down the other plane (by total luck I'll ad).

Well, off to bed to get ready for more flight and combat training tomorrow!

As it was quoted to me back when I first started:

Once you've mastered the art of actually flying, taking off, landing, and all the engine stuff and you're ready to work on marksmanship, there are 2 planes that will serve you well.

The Hurricane Mk 2b will teach you to place your shots well, and to aim for a specific part of the plane. It has scads of ammo for those .303's but they don't pack a lot of punch. To succeed in the hurri mk2 you have to get in real close and be surgical with your aim.

Then, the Hurricane Mk 2c will teach you to conserve your ammo. With 4 Hispano 20mm's you can rip just about anything to shreds with a half-second burst, especially using your newly-learned aiming skills.

M_Gunz
10-29-2008, 02:23 AM
Ha! Early Yak has served both purposes since before FB!

jayhall0315
10-29-2008, 08:39 PM
Redhornet - Most of the replies you have received have good advice in them. I have written a guide specifically to help out new guys with online dogfighting in IL2. I even dedicated a little section to working with American planes (which are very challenging for new guys). You can find the guide here:

http://files.filefront.com/IL2+Dogfighting+Final38pdf/;12167152;/fileinfo.html

Needless to say, most Americans have heard about how great the P51 and Corsair are, and expect them to perform superbly in-game when in reality they are some of the more difficult airframes to fly well in IL2. You also have to remember how and why major US airframes were used in the war which does not equate well with the low level (sub 3000 meters) turning contests that often develop on many HL servers.

Jay

looma_krappy
10-29-2008, 09:27 PM
remember - IL-2 online is like life
you choose your own path, and everyone learns how to be a good pilot by different means. You don't have to fly Yak's or Hurris or whatever to get good, I mean, I learned how to fly online in a Jets server using a 162C with howitzers... and howitzers cant hit anything beyond 300m so yeah

and also, not all planes are equal but each has its own way of flying and each also has the potential to shoot many aircraft down

choose your mount and stick with it

and hopefully you won't be another of the multitude of the take-the-easiest plane to fly/kill with type