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View Full Version : Were CIA involved in LSD experiment on the French?



AndyJWest
08-24-2010, 10:44 AM
One for the conspiracy nuts, no doubt, but an interesting story:
Pont-Saint-Esprit poisoning: Did the CIA spread LSD? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-10996838)


Nearly 60 years ago, a French town was hit by a sudden outbreak of hallucinations, which left five people dead and many seriously ill. For years it was blamed on bread contaminated with a psychedelic fungus - but that theory is now being challenged.

...

Doctors at the time concluded that bread at one of the town's bakeries had become contaminated by ergot, a poisonous fungus that occurs naturally on rye.

...

That view remained largely unchallenged until 2009, when an American investigative journalist, Hank Albarelli, revealed a CIA document labelled: "Re: Pont-Saint-Esprit and F.Olson Files. SO Span/France Operation file, inclusive Olson. Intel files. Hand carry to Belin - tell him to see to it that these are buried."

F. Olson is Frank Olson, a CIA scientist who, at the time of the Pont St Esprit incident, led research for the agency into the drug LSD.

berg417448
08-24-2010, 11:05 AM
Let me guess...he has a book to sell.

R_Target
08-24-2010, 04:14 PM
Payback for Le Car.

LW_lcarp
08-24-2010, 04:19 PM
Yes they did. Everything that has gone wrong for the past 40 years is because of the CIA and American Government.

JG53_Valantine
08-24-2010, 04:41 PM
Yep, I can fully agree with that one lcarp!

Why just today I was wiping my backside and my finger broke through the paper - it is obvious that some CIA agent whittled down that specific part in order to cause said event!
V

Bearcat99
08-24-2010, 11:02 PM
They say that this is what also caused the hysteria that resulted in the Salem witch trials..

x6BL_Brando
08-25-2010, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
They say that this is what also caused the hysteria that resulted in the Salem witch trials..

Really? I had no idea that the CIA was operating back then!

B

Monty_Thrud
08-25-2010, 03:09 AM
No, the French have always been a bit wacky.

Licking hallucinogenic Frogs?.

Bearcat99
08-26-2010, 10:34 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
They say that this is what also caused the hysteria that resulted in the Salem witch trials..

Really? I had no idea that the CIA was operating back then!

B </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

not the CIA... the ergot fungus in the rye.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Only nop one kn ew what was happening.. so they assumed it was witchcraft..

Salem Witch trials caused by ergot poisoning? (http://www.hbci.com/%7Ewenonah/history/ergot.htm)

WTE_Galway
08-26-2010, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
They say that this is what also caused the hysteria that resulted in the Salem witch trials..

Really? I had no idea that the CIA was operating back then!

B </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

time travel .. ask raaid about it

ROXunreal
08-27-2010, 03:28 AM
"which left five people dead and many seriously ill"

LSD does not make people "ill" after its effects have worn off, nor does it cause muscle spasms, like ergot does.

"It was terrible. I had the sensation of shrinking and shrinking, and the fire and the serpents coiling around my arms,"

Fire of the serpents coiling around arms = vasoconstriction = ergotism.


Though this is not to say that there was no conspiracy, the CIA gave hundreds of people LSD, PCP and a lot of other drugs against their will or without their knowledge, which left a few people dead. Google MKULTRA.
It's one of the few conspiracies that are actually true and have been proven so.

AndyJWest
08-27-2010, 04:29 AM
LSD does not make people "ill" after its effects have worn off, nor does it cause muscle spasms, like ergot does.

True enough. As I understand it, Ergotamine, the active ingredient in the ergot fungus, may be used in the synthesis of LSD - perhaps it was a contaminated batch?

I tend to be wary of conspiracy theories, but as you say, there is strong evidence of CIA involvement in LSD 'experiments' on unknowing victims. I'd have to classify this as a 'maybe' on the evidence we have, with straightforward ergot poisoning seeming as likely. This doesn't explain the CIA document referring to 'burying' Pont-Saint-Esprit files though...

ROXunreal
08-27-2010, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">LSD does not make people "ill" after its effects have worn off, nor does it cause muscle spasms, like ergot does.

True enough. As I understand it, Ergotamine, the active ingredient in the ergot fungus, may be used in the synthesis of LSD - perhaps it was a contaminated batch?

I tend to be wary of conspiracy theories, but as you say, there is strong evidence of CIA involvement in LSD 'experiments' on unknowing victims. I'd have to classify this as a 'maybe' on the evidence we have, with straightforward ergot poisoning seeming as likely. This doesn't explain the CIA document referring to 'burying' Pont-Saint-Esprit files though... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just think it's far more likely that it was a simple ergot poisoning than a covert CIA experiment in a friendly country gone wrong via impure LSD. I also think that if the "burying Pont-Saint-Esprit files" part is true, it may only mean that the CIA was investigating the incident. Maybe they suspected the soviets for doing such an experiment or were just curious about what went on there? Who knows...it would be much easier for the CIA to do such an experiment in some remote village on their soil than do it in a foreign country...

stalkervision
08-27-2010, 08:42 AM
Oh another "conspiracy theory" the cia never experimented on people with lSd. They certainly didn't develop a "heart attack gun" that leave no traces either.

Conspiracies blah ! No such thing. People actually say the shooting of president Lincoln was a conspiracy TOO ! It was just john wilke Booth. Silly people.

Kennedy conspiracy NONESENSE ! Watch..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XY02Qkuc_f8

Julius Caesar's assassination?

another conspirator's silly theory. Made up by Shakespeare to sell more seats at his plays. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Friendly_flyer
08-27-2010, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by ROXunreal:
I also think that if the "burying Pont-Saint-Esprit files" part is true,


Considering the risks, costs and legality of giving unsuspecting civilians comparable doses of LSD, it would not be surprising if CIA bought up those files. This is what is called a "natural experiment" in natural science, and is the same reason scientists flock to newly formed volcanic islands, forest fire sites and industrial accidents.

ROXunreal
08-27-2010, 10:36 AM
Yeah, only too bad that MKULTRA had little to do with actual science. It's like unit 731 "research", completely useless, illegal *and* at a great cost in both resources and people's lives, a bunch of dimwits with too much power and resources, with an "hey lets do this and watch what happens" approach. Very few of them, if any, were actual scientists that actually understood what scientific research is about.
MKULTRA was just a waste of a good drug.