PDA

View Full Version : Damn spitfires!



Adseh
04-12-2006, 03:52 PM
Whats the trick to fighting the bloody things, they're so easy to fly and good at everything so how do you kill them, they climb well, good guns, good speed, good turning.
even zoom and boom just end up out turning you atlast second then shooting you
the best tactics for shooting planes like that and yak3p and la7 etc
i know la7 is bad at high alt but what about spit, its good at everything

slipBall
04-12-2006, 04:06 PM
What you need is a very large fly swatter, or fly paper http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VW-IceFire
04-12-2006, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by Adseh:
Whats the trick to fighting the bloody things, they're so easy to fly and good at everything so how do you kill them, they climb well, good guns, good speed, good turning.
even zoom and boom just end up out turning you atlast second then shooting you
the best tactics for shooting planes like that and yak3p and la7 etc
i know la7 is bad at high alt but what about spit, its good at everything
This is precisely why the Spitfire was one of the best fighters of WWII (not THE best...but one of them). The Spitfire did pretty much everything well. It was just as fast as its contemporaries, it was eventually well armed, it was able to turn quickly, the clipped wing variants rolled fast enough, and it was good at low, medium, and high altitudes. As several veteran Spitfire pilots pointed out...the great difference between the Spitfire and the 109 was that any idiot could fly the Spitfire. True historically and true in the sim.


That said...there are some weaknesses you can exploit. The roll rate at high speeds is poor at best so flying a fighter with a high roll rate can sometimes manage to flick away in a high speed dive. Its also not the toughest plane so light battle damage, although sustainable, is going to increasingly prevent the Spitfire from being a capable fighter. Finally, its often flown by new and inexperienced pilots online so you can leverage pure skill over them in many cases. But do fear the more experienced Spitfire pilots as they are a true threat to anyone flying any plane.

Its hard to say exactly what the best strategy for you is as I don't know what your flying but the best moves in both the 109 and the 190 is twofold:

1) Fly as a team and not by yourself...use team tactics to single the enemy out and attack them repeatedly or to help clear each others tails when a Spitfire tries to get around on it.

2) Use slash attacks from above with superior energy. This was a common Luftwaffe tactic with both the FW190 and the Bf109. Although both types can theoretically stay and fight a protracted engagement...the method of attack is always in the vertical leveraging superior energy/speed to prevent the Spitfire(s) from gaining altitude or being able to go onto the offensive.

In general...if you fly it right...the Spitfires will never have the opportunity to get more than a few passing shots at you as you fly past. Your situation is dire and you've made some mistakes when you find yourself low and slow with a Spitfire.

I tend to feel that, when I'm doing things right, that the Spitfires have no chance and that the whole state of affairs is sort of "unfair", but that is WWII combat tactics at its finest and when it comes right down to it...you want to use the method that puts you the least at risk.

The art of energy fighting and the bomm and zoom technique are not easily mastered for most pilots. You'll find yourself suckered in at some point...I still do get suckered in sometimes...I usually pay for it and I sit back and realize the exact turning point where I made the critical mistake and allowed him to leverage his advantages against my weaknesses.

Remember that the BNZ is often done with the element of surprise...in the absense of that you have to play the game where you are forcing the Spitfire to keep turning to evade. Every turn reduces his energy as he expends it making the turn. Meanwhile you need to ensure that every move you make is a very considered and controlled one where you burn the least amount of energy. As the fight continues his E decreases while yours is maintained. Sooner or later he will be low on E and an easy target...OR...you'll correctly manage to land a deflection shot with a solid burst of gunfire (a technique that works best on the FW190s with the heavy guns and wide spread of fire). This is of course even better when the Spitfires are trying to evade a co-ordinated attack as they are forced to evade more than one bandit...often giving advantage to one of the attackers to score hits.

Adseh
04-12-2006, 05:16 PM
hmmm eevrytime i end up BNZ i just get caught i'll dive down he'll flip round and end up climbing faster than i did :S
damn buggers!
just need more height i guess, but i cant see bugger all in the fw190 cockpit they are such hard planes to use

danger13
04-12-2006, 05:47 PM
try outflying the pilot and not the plane...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

VW-IceFire
04-12-2006, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Adseh:
hmmm eevrytime i end up BNZ i just get caught i'll dive down he'll flip round and end up climbing faster than i did :S
damn buggers!
just need more height i guess, but i cant see bugger all in the fw190 cockpit they are such hard planes to use
Right...this used to be my problem as well...the things I found myself doing wrong were:

1) Diving straight down to attack the enemy

2) Not positioning myself very well to attack from the rear quarter

3) Attempting to pull straight into a vertical climb immediately following the attack

4) Following the Spitfire too much into a turn or other evasive manuever

I think for you it may be number three that is getting you. It sounds like your probably attacking and then pulling as quickly away as possible. This ironically puts you at a disadvantage because while your rapidly turning your energy into altitude again...your also nose up at a high AoA (angle of attack) and soon your zoom climb will be over and he'll be able to sustain climb upto you.

What you want to do is extend first and then climb. Usually I mix this up by attacking...then pulling gently into maybe a 20 degree climb at the most...then I steepen it a little to get up and away and then circle for another attack. The other problem with the vertical climb away is that your very suddenly introducing a high AoA position which bleeds energy quickly...particularly in a FW190 which has very high wingloading. You want to be smooth and controlled when you do this.

To further throw the Spitfire off...I'd suggest a half roll as you extend just to put yourself quickly but gently on a different heading so he both has to pull up AND roll into a new position.

Again...the wingman is critical here. If the Spitfire does elect to try and climb up...your wingman should be ontop of him to blast the Spitfire as he's now climbing and is presenting his large wing profile (which makes a surprisingly easy target).

tigertalon
04-12-2006, 05:51 PM
If you fly 109s:

most of them can outclimb contemporary spits (by a smal margin tough) and are in general faster. Outclimb him (climb at around 270kph), when he is falling back, start slightly pulling back on stick, so even increasing angle of climb and loosing speed. Ingame 109 has great low speed handling, so spit will stall before you will. Then swoop down on him.

Train on 109F4 vs SpitMkV, then move on to G vs IX.

Brain32
04-12-2006, 06:43 PM
Well IceFire gave some great advices, but there are some desparation moves that in my case often end up not to be so desparate. First like Ice said if you face an expirienced Spit pilot - run. There is apsolutley nothing you can do in any Axis plane. Co-alt engagements are a big NO again you have no chance unless he is a noob. Never dive strait down becuase Spit will keep up in firing range with you(historically? I don't think so). Anyway when things go bad force head-ons if you are a good shot you have a good chance of taking it down. Slowing down and getting it into rolling scissoring fight can also do the trick, neither will work against Spit pilots that know what are they doing.
Also forget about shotting it down by geting on it's six, that is impossible, blind(FW) or not so blind(109) deflection shot is the way to do it. Some of my basic Spit engagement rules are:
1. Don't engage at co-alt unless at extreme speed(600kph+)
2. NEVER climb with the Spit, NEVER turn with the Spit(45 degrees is OK but not more)
3. Bounce by going slightly under it first, because the feckers can see you in their make-up mirror.
4. Always assume they have twice as much energy than you have, even if it doesen't make sense, you will live longer.
All in all, Spitfire is the worst nightmare you can encounter in late war WesternFront scenario, 109's are really pesky when you play on Red with American planes or Tempest, but Spits eat them alive and ask for more. However, there is no greater pleasure than completely destroying a Spitfire in a duel and often, due to improper use not so hard as I described here.

VW-IceFire
04-12-2006, 06:53 PM
Brain: Regarding the dives between the FW190 and the Spitfires...if you compare the FW190A-3 or A-4 in the early channel front campaigns the Mark V was not likely able to keep up. Not so much in the initial dive but in the protracted run as the V's top speed was not nearly as good and its dive, while good, was not as good over the long term.

With the Spitfire IX the dives are very close. Historically...read The Big Show or Winged Combat and you'll see why two things are true:

1) Spitfire pilots were reluctant to dive with FW190s

2) That they could dive with FW190s and still score the kill

Pierre Closterman got really frustrated from the sounds of it in one of the chapters and chased the FW190 from a high altitude fight all the way down and then shot him down at the bottom. The trouble with doing this is that it leaves you low, further away from home territory (deeper into occupied France or Belgium or whatever), and much lower on fuel after the chase. A virtual pilot doesn't care...but a real pilot might.

Brain32
04-12-2006, 06:58 PM
I've read that story, but like you say, eventually caught him down not staying in firing range throughout the dive only loosing it at the end like we have in game, it's the initial dive acceleration that seems rather strange to me, I learned I can't count on that "advantage" long time ago so it's really not a big deal but I'm kinda suspicious about it...

VW-IceFire
04-12-2006, 09:18 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
I've read that story, but like you say, eventually caught him down not staying in firing range throughout the dive only loosing it at the end like we have in game, it's the initial dive acceleration that seems rather strange to me, I learned I can't count on that "advantage" long time ago so it's really not a big deal but I'm kinda suspicious about it...
Initial dive acceleration should go to the lighter plane with lots of horsepower (i.e. the Spitfire IX). By the end of the dive the heavier plane will gather momentum. Thats how it was explained to me anyways...makes sense. If you dive away with any plane hot on your six its going to be a problem regardless of the weights involved. Usually diving away in combat didn't mean they were already chewing you up.

All of that aside, I do agree with what you said above. Spot on...Spits are tough opponents and ones flown by experienced pilots are something to fear.

gomer68
04-12-2006, 11:42 PM
Might be ot but, spits are not invincible.
The phrase axis aircraft does not include the Japanes aircraft that have been added to the game.

I've played against a number of folks online who used them and they can be killed.
The dificulty depends on the crate that you fly and the pilot of the spit.

Take an of A6M variants and the spit is reduced to using only boom and zoom tactics.

Fight at low extremely low altitudes and even that is severely constricted.

And you can also take steps to force the spit pilot to bleed off his/energy and minimizing his/her vertical advantage.

Badsight.
04-13-2006, 01:13 AM
Spits have very nassty guns , but they are not strong in the DM

beating a better performing plane with an inferior is not easy when the guy using the better plane is also a good pilot

the more you persist (& pay attention) the more tricks you will learn

you will die lots , but you will learn

another similer type of fight is P-40's v Zero's

jermin122
04-13-2006, 01:22 AM
Skilled spitfire can cope with at least 3 blue fighters at one time. Even noob spit can fight 2 blue fighters simultaneously. Except maxspeed, all the other performances are among the best. It is overmodeled and blue fighters are castrated and Oleg is unwilling to touch it. This is the very reason that so many pilots has left this game.

jermin122
04-13-2006, 01:27 AM
Originally posted by Badsight.:
another similer type of fight is P-40's v Zero's

Compared to Spit, Zero overheats easily and its acceleration isn't good.

AFJ_Locust
04-13-2006, 01:32 AM
Spits are cannon fodder just like yaks & la7

You have to be patient

Dont dive repetedly on the same ac only 1 or 2 dives if you dont get him then its your bad, extend away & reclimb, use 35/45 degree dives alwayes stay fast & learn to shoot blind.

a good G2 pilot can kill any spit any day of the week. well maybe not 25# LOL

AFJ_Locust
04-13-2006, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Skilled spitfire can cope with at least 3 blue fighters at one time. Even noob spit can fight 2 blue fighters simultaneously. Except maxspeed, all the other performances are among the best. It is overmodeled and blue fighters are castrated and Oleg is unwilling to touch it. This is the very reason that so many pilots has left this game.

Personaly i think your Insane, Just today I took FWA6, 100% fuel, flew for 45 minuts & killed 5 spits, YOU must SUX if you think German ac are undermodled your flying them wrong.

Max.Power
04-13-2006, 01:45 AM
Ugh, jermin, do we have to turn every thread requesting tactics and techniques (to help him increase his skill playing the game) into a huge whine-fest (which helps nobody)?

And it's quite obvious to anyone with any sort of idea what they are talking about that you should also be paying attention to the techniques listed here. I fly FW's exclusively, and I seldomly have any trouble tackling spitfires. Even in co altitude enguagements, there are things that you can do to minimize your disadvantage. Unfortunately, none of them involve deploying your combat flaps opening your radiator and pulling your pants down for him. Sometimes getting the kill may take longer than 10 minutes. Sometimes it's just better to avoid the contest initially and stalk the other guy, sometimes it's better to try to take him to terminal dive velocity to negate his energy advantage and then work him from there. Spitfires are tough opponents, but they are far from something to lose sleep over.

FA_Whisky
04-13-2006, 02:15 AM
Use a Mustang III. Its so much faster that you can run away whenever you want and attack whenever you want. You just need to aim very good.

Adseh
04-13-2006, 11:27 AM
Thanks for that guys
so in other words, if a spit is higher than me, dive and run like hell :P
otherwise always gain height, dive and then fly kinda level for a bit to keep speed, maybe turn and then climb at 45 odd degrees turn and shoot again
i shall keep on trying, thanks for the tips!
if anyone has any good recordings of fights that would be nice

gthgrrl4game
04-13-2006, 11:32 AM
Spits are good.
But they can be taken.
At least the AI ones.
In a Veltro, Fw Anton, Raiden, or Gustav.

HellToupee
04-13-2006, 04:22 PM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Skilled spitfire can cope with at least 3 blue fighters at one time. Even noob spit can fight 2 blue fighters simultaneously. Except maxspeed, all the other performances are among the best. It is overmodeled and blue fighters are castrated and Oleg is unwilling to touch it. This is the very reason that so many pilots has left this game.

disagree i fought a n00b spitfire pilot in a mc205, he was in a Vc, with 1000meters advantage i won easy, i could outturn and everything because he couldnt fly the plane in turns without spinning :P

VW-IceFire
04-13-2006, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Skilled spitfire can cope with at least 3 blue fighters at one time. Even noob spit can fight 2 blue fighters simultaneously. Except maxspeed, all the other performances are among the best. It is overmodeled and blue fighters are castrated and Oleg is unwilling to touch it. This is the very reason that so many pilots has left this game.
I haven't seen anyone I know leaving this game because they think Spitfires are overmodeled or German planes are under. Not one. Just hyping up a viewpoint I think.

No way that a newbie Spitfire pilot can go up against 3 Luftwaffe fighters. You have to have newbie pilots all around to produce that sort of behavior. I've seen it...its stupid. You probably haven't seen a good Focke Wulf driver as they are nearly untouchable. Particularly if your a newbie Spit driver and haven't mastered some of the finer techniques of air combat. Infact, there is maybe 15% of online pilots I see that actually have ACM mastered or show an understanding of it. The rest are either completely oblivious or are only somewhat aware of basic techniques.

Case in point...most online pilots think the break turn is the best way to avoid enemy fire and its virtually the only tactic they use.

slipBall
04-13-2006, 05:36 PM
As with all air combat, surprise, and position, determine much of the battle. Any aircraft is vulnerable, including a spit http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Max.Power
04-13-2006, 06:26 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Case in point...most online pilots think the break turn is the best way to avoid enemy fire and its virtually the only tactic they use.

I love those guys... I just love them. They are the reason why I'm fat. I actually whisper at the drivers of aircraft in high-speed pursuits "Come on! Turn hard! Come on, I know you want to! Do it! Do it for me!"

AFJ_Locust
04-13-2006, 10:39 PM
couldnt fly the plane in turns without spinning


This is a fact,,high AOA left hand turn climb is very hard for spits to follow.

pourshot
04-13-2006, 11:17 PM
I have been flying the 109 a lot lately against people I know are around my own skill level and have found I can kill spits with no more effort than any other fighter in this game, I can even kill them when they start behind me with a E advantage but then I have spent a lot of time in spits and know it€s weak points.

My suggestion is to fly what your enemy flies and learn what works best for each plane and try to avoid those situations.

Jumoschwanz
04-13-2006, 11:47 PM
Fly on full-real servers and attack with an advantage and with surprise, just like they did it in WWII. It is a waste of time screwing around with a spitfire in any kind of turn-fighting or equal footing unless he has no wingman and you are a top ace.

The Spit has more guns than the Messers, and every one of the Spits guns is more deadly than the axis counterpart, so the spit pilot does not have to be as good as the 109 pilot in gunnery and because of it's better rate of turn he does not have to be as good as the axis pilot in the handling of his craft either.

tigertalon
04-14-2006, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by jermin122:
Skilled spitfire can cope with at least 3 blue fighters at one time. Even noob spit can fight 2 blue fighters simultaneously. Except maxspeed, all the other performances are among the best. It is overmodeled and blue fighters are castrated and Oleg is unwilling to touch it. This is the very reason that so many pilots has left this game.

Err.. one of my recent sorties with Fw... seemed like a cat and mouse play. The reason I don't find flying Fw exciting any more...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/aegeeaddict/Somebody_said_Fw_is_undermodelled.jpg

raaaid
04-14-2006, 07:02 AM
the spits turn well but you still can beat them with the 109

which are way overmodelled in my opinion are the yaks and las those are imposible to dogfight with the k4

RAF74_Poker
04-14-2006, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by jermin122:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Badsight.:
another similer type of fight is P-40's v Zero's

Compared to Spit, Zero overheats easily and its acceleration isn't good. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hogwash !
Zero will run all day long at 105% w/ rad open - never overheat.
Close rad to catch up ... open and drop to 99% and it will cool within 20 secs.

VW-IceFire
04-14-2006, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
the spits turn well but you still can beat them with the 109

which are way overmodelled in my opinion are the yaks and las those are imposible to dogfight with the k4
Do you want to know why you can't dogfight them in the Bf109K-4? Because the K-4 is the heaviest 109 in the book with the greatest amount of weight and with an extremely powerful engine. The K-4 is a energy fighter...its not a dogfighter. Thats why if you dogfight you loose against a much lighter La-7 or Yak-9U.

The K-4 is faster than both of those above 2000m and can outclimb any propeller aircraft in the game. Performance in terms of speed, firepower, and climb became most important to the 109 line. The wing size scarcely changed through the whole series so it got progressively more heavily loaded. So how on earth can you get away saying that the Yak-9 or La-7 is overmodeled because you can't dogfight them in the worst dogfighter of the 109 series?

To beat both of those types...energy tactics MUST be used. Same as against the Spitfire.

Maraz_5SA
04-14-2006, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by gomer68:
Might be ot but, spits are not invincible.
The phrase axis aircraft does not include the Japanes aircraft that have been added to the game.

I've played against a number of folks online who used them and they can be killed.
The dificulty depends on the crate that you fly and the pilot of the spit.

Take an of A6M variants and the spit is reduced to using only boom and zoom tactics.

Fight at low extremely low altitudes and even that is severely constricted.

And you can also take steps to force the spit pilot to bleed off his/energy and minimizing his/her vertical advantage.

That is true, any aircraft can be shot down, all depends on pilots. A n00b in a Spitfire is still a n00b.

Yesterday on Zeke vs Wildcat (Malaya map) I engaged a Spitfire Mk V with My A6M2, he was on the deck having expended much his energy chasing another aircraft, while I was higher and as fast as a Zero allows.

I shot him down easily though I am not a good fighter pilot (I am mainly a bomber guy), because he tried to dogfight instead of trying to outrun me.

So a n00b pilot (or a pilot who makes mistakes) is dead in a Spitfire, as he should be, just like in any other aircraft.

Maraz

Brain32
04-14-2006, 11:51 AM
Personally guys reading your comments I wander were do you play so I can come there and pwn some Spits. Try to tangle with the PFS boys(best Spitfire pilots and overall excellent pilots) or 602nd boys not to metion other I meet every day. If we were braging with our scores let me mention that I was a top Mk9HF pilot on warclouds for a long time, now I'm second and I really wander how long will it take for me to reclaim first place. My last sortie in a plain Mk9e resulted with kills of a Dora,A8 and 109g6AS. Co-alt with Dora, and joined effort of gustav and anton with alt advantage. I score much better with the Spits than with the 109's and FW's and my loss rate is lower so much about speed advantage lol. Who knows, since v403 I completely dedicated to the Tempest so maybe I loosed the touch with the FW's...
I think many of you guys often meet spits t'n'b on the deck and then you simply dive on them, what if they are flying around at 5,6,7k? I fight them that high quite often...
I stay by my claim - they are unsufficiently "punished" for high AoA manouvering I will not even mention the Spit25 which is a total joke of a plane...

This is a fact,,high AOA left hand turn climb is very hard for spits to follow.
Please, oh, please evade my Spit like that, pretty please http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif
Now don't get me wrong here, I consider their basic capatibilities(speed,turn,climb even dive) to be correct, but energy retention - you is wrong be sure. That is all IMO I'm not asking for correction or anything even close to that, it's just my personal opinion. I still have a right to have my own opinion right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Adseh
04-14-2006, 02:22 PM
so can you guys explain some simple tactics in how to get the most speed out of ur plane,
such as does opening the radiator slow you down?
i know setting the trim level speeds you up which i now deal with, but whats a good prop pitch to use, is it a good idea to use 100% in dogfights presumably 100% is best for climbing but whats good for normal flying and fighting etc
just throw in any information you can please http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and recordings!

EiZ0N
04-14-2006, 02:56 PM
I've played this game for years now, and I still know so little of what there is to know.

I'll try and tell you what I know, then I have a few questions of my own.

If you're flying a fast heavy plane (BnZ plane/ Boom and Zoom), climb all the time, and keep your altitude advantage. Dive gently on enemies, and regardless of whether you hit or miss, after your pass bring the plane back up to retain your energy advantage. Position yourself again, and keep going for it. If the dude evades alot, and you are going to miss, don't get into a heavy turn with him, you'll waste your energy. Just shoot past and back up, and remember that if you keep your height advantage, you are safe.

If you're flying something like a spit, you can generally get into turnfights with people and have a good chance. Personally, I fly everything like a BnZ plane nowadays, only I'll allow myself to be suckered into a turnfight if I'm flying a plane like a spit, whereas if I were flying a big heavy fighter I would rarely get pulled into a turn fight.

Closing radiator gives you more power but your engine will get hotter. I generally climb after takeoff on total full power with radiator closed, but by the time I meet an enemy, my engine is hot and struggling. This is bad, but I'm too impatient to takeoff and climb on more gentle engine settings. If you can, avoid getting your engine too hot before you even meet anyone.

If your engine is overheating, and you're not fighting, turn off WEP/Boost, wack it on about 80% throttle, and open the radiator, and keep cruising around on those speeds for a while after engine goes normal.

If you're desperately fighting someone and your engine is hot, just try to forget about it for a few minutes. If the battle is hectic and you going to be battling for a while, you MUST open your radiator and slow down a bit, or risk losing the battle by having your engine die on you (one of the most frustrating things to happen I think).

That's what I do ^ but I'm only an average pilot, I don't pretend to be a pro, I've just learnt to do those things above. If anyone can tell me how to improve those tactics, I'll be appreciative http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

My question is, Combat Flaps... What's the purpose of these? I always thought that losing speed was bad, and lowering flaps = losing speed, so... what situations do you use combat flaps in? I've never ever used them, mainly because I don't know when I should. In a turn fight?

Also, why do I see so few Tempest pilots online? I've been flying this thing like crazy recently, I love it!

AFJ_Locust
04-14-2006, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Now don't get me wrong here, I consider their basic capatibilities(speed,turn,climb even dive) to be correct, but energy retention - you is wrong be sure. That is all IMO I'm not asking for correction or anything even close to that, it's just my personal opinion. I still have a right to have my own opinion right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Brain32, When I dive from 15000ft onto a spit thats at 10000ft normaly they turn so hard that they spin the ac out of control loosing plenty of energy, If I didnt wound them beyond fighting ability they normaly start to climb up I hold a high aoa left hand turn, I myself am on the edge of stalling at some point, they keep pushing the envelope then POP they spin out of control again, this is when they die.

Belive it.

Im not talking about fighting a spit at co alt, doing that is risky and envolves too much dam running in the FW.

VW-IceFire
04-15-2006, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by EiZ0N:
My question is, Combat Flaps... What's the purpose of these? I always thought that losing speed was bad, and lowering flaps = losing speed, so... what situations do you use combat flaps in? I've never ever used them, mainly because I don't know when I should. In a turn fight?

Also, why do I see so few Tempest pilots online? I've been flying this thing like crazy recently, I love it!
Combat flaps....the reality is that only a few planes actually had combat flaps. A few FW190s, the P-51s, P-38s, Ki-84s, Ki-43's, the N1K-1J and 2J and not much else. That said, some pilots did use flap settings to tighten turns but largely at their own risk of doing damage to the flaps. Also some Wildcat pilots took advantage of the system that protected their flaps from harm by flicking the flap toggle in tight turns.

Combat flaps I hardly use these days. But if I do its only for say 5 seconds or less...if your in a tight sustained turn with a 109 and you've got lots of speed in a Mustang for instance...the combat flaps bring the nose around quicker allowing you to make a shot you otherwise never would have had. They have to be used smartly.

As for Tempest pilots...I know, its surprisingly barren out there...no matter where I go. For about 48 hours after it was made available everyone was flying it. I think everyone thought that since it looked like a Spitfire it should fly like one too....they got disappointed when they basically found a Focke Wulf in RAF markings and moved back to the Spitfire. Personally I love it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

It just suits my style of flying perfectly. I've gone on more than one rampage shooting down several aircraft in the space of only a few minutes.

EiZ0N
04-15-2006, 07:47 AM
I know, it's such a great plane. I honestly prefer it to the spit. My survival rate is also considerably higher with a Tempest.

It also looks really cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The engine can be a bit annoying though, I've had it conk out on me a couple of times in fights. I need some kind of data on how long the thing can run overheated, or what temperature to keep it below, or something.

VW-IceFire
04-15-2006, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by EiZ0N:
I know, it's such a great plane. I honestly prefer it to the spit. My survival rate is also considerably higher with a Tempest.

It also looks really cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The engine can be a bit annoying though, I've had it conk out on me a couple of times in fights. I need some kind of data on how long the thing can run overheated, or what temperature to keep it below, or something.
In game tests show that its 2 minutes after the overheat message comes on that the engine dies. Play with the prop pitch a bit when running on WEP to solve that problem.

Brain32
04-15-2006, 11:14 AM
@EiZON try 90%pp,90%throtthle and rads at 4 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
I still hope we get the higher(11lbs) boost for it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EiZ0N
04-15-2006, 02:11 PM
Ooh, numbers, I like numbers.

Can you elaborate on that a little? Are you saying that's what you recommend when your engine is running hot? Is that with WEP off?

Icefire, that 2 minutes figure is interesting. I could swear I've run my engine overheating for considerably longer than 2 minutes without causing permanent damage to my engine. Maybe it depends on the map? (I've always been under the impression that some maps are hotter than others, but I could be making that up)

VW-IceFire
04-15-2006, 02:36 PM
Every map is different...temperatures and air densities and the whole deal.

Remember that the overheat system is fairly simple. If you can cool it down for even 1 second so that the overheat message goes away...then the timer is reset to 2 minutes again.

EiZ0N
04-15-2006, 02:52 PM
Really? :S

I think I've grossly misunderstood the way overheating worked in this sim.

I thought that the harder you whipped your engine, the faster the temperature would go up (and the higher it would go).

I don't spend much time looking at temperature gauges in the sim, but I assumed that you got an overheat message when your engine hit a certain temperature (say X degrees), and that as long as you exceeded X degrees there was some kind of 'health' for your engine that, upon getting low enough, would seize up.

I also assumed that the hotter your engine was, the faster it would overheat.

I guess I'm completely wrong? So, you overheat when the engine hits a certain temperature, then you just need to cool it to below that temperature then you get another 2 minutes?

This is raising more questions for me... how does engine damage work with regards to overheating and loss of coolant and such? I'd always thought (from what I perceived I'd experienced in the sim) that engine overheating had caused me to lose power, made my engine sound unhealthy, but the engine remained functioning once I kept it cool (albeit sounding nasty and seemingly producing less power).

I thought I'd had my tempest engine overheating for approaching 10 minutes, and still not had it sieze up on me if I cooled it off, but now you mention 2 minutes :S

HellToupee
04-15-2006, 03:40 PM
u should get just under 5minutes of overheat in tempy

HellToupee
04-15-2006, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jermin122:
Skilled spitfire can cope with at least 3 blue fighters at one time. Even noob spit can fight 2 blue fighters simultaneously. Except maxspeed, all the other performances are among the best. It is overmodeled and blue fighters are castrated and Oleg is unwilling to touch it. This is the very reason that so many pilots has left this game.

Err.. one of my recent sorties with Fw... seemed like a cat and mouse play. The reason I don't find flying Fw exciting any more...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v662/aegeeaddict/Somebody_said_Fw_is_undermodelled.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

5 kills in 63 hits :O

Max.Power
04-16-2006, 09:43 PM
From what I can tell, every bit of damage on an engine counts towards affecting your engine performance, and a damaged engine will accumulate more damage per engine revolution (perhaps also according to other factors). As you overheat the engine above a certain point, you have a chance to damage the engine every instant that it's overheated after a certain length of time/ above a certain temperature. So, riding the engine on verge of overheat, or just above that point is unlikely to accumulate engine damage, but once it does, it will continue to damage itself until it siezes.

And Brain32, that anecdote of you whiping the skies of aircraft in your spitfire 9 sounds like you were up against a Dora pilot with little experience. Fighting a spitfire at co altitude is a disadvantageous position for the dora. Staying and fighting with you under those conditions was a poor decision.

Lucius_Esox
04-18-2006, 12:46 PM
Hmmm, is the Spitfire the most hated plane in the game,,,?


Hope so, I bet axis pilots didn't like it too much either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

nearmiss
04-18-2006, 01:16 PM
I made a test.

I went into the FMB and built a simple mission. I placed 6 of the most Uber fighters in a straight run climbing race. They all started at the same time had enough time to get to max speed and then they started their climb to 12 Km.

P51-D, Spit IXE, BF109K, LA7, BF109G/AS,Yak3

The P-51D jumped ahead fast and furious, but began to peter out against serious competition from the Spit IXE, BF109K and LA7 before they reached 5KM.

That darn Spit went to 12KM way before the pack and ran off and left them when it flattened out at 12Km.

The Yak3 was out of the running at 4K alt.

If you kept the max altitude under 4K the P-51D and the La7 were always above and ahead of the pack. The Spit almost caught them at the finish (across the Kuban Map)

The Spit was the player aircraft so I could read the instruments on it. That darn thing never over-heated, it just kept going up up up at 4-5 bars on the attitude indicator. All I can say is... If that thing can cut it in a Furball at low levels as well, it's gotta be the most Uber aircraft NOW.

I normally fly Luftwaffe so needless to say, I was just amazed. The difference in performance as compared to the other aircraft was like night and day.

Sure a good pilot makes the difference, but a good pilot in the SPIT has gotta be a tough combination to beat.

I'm not sure we need the XIV http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

jermin122
04-19-2006, 03:50 AM
I mostly fly 109 and usually fly at WC. The spit issue has been discussed millions of times in WC forum, so I wont repost any view and evidence here, pls refer to the spit posts in WC. There are many tracks of me and my squad mates. We have tested spit vs 109 with many super aces, e.g. BlackBird, pinker. And none of them can beat our spit25 in a 109. If any of you still think spit is not uber, pls do a one on one with me. I fly spit, you fly 109. But before you make your decision, I recommend you read papafly's post of zoom climb test first.

Lucius_Esox
04-19-2006, 04:54 AM
Hmm,
Everything so subjective. I know a couple of pilots who would, I believe take down 95% of Spits, flying 109's on Warclouds, and yes I do fly there regularly.

So they wouldn't be able to take the top 5% of pilots down like Blacbird et al,, so what! Maybe the Spitfire really was a Uber aircraft in many respects! Ban it I hear people say,, oh thats already happened to the 25 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

People commenting on tracks, graphs etc, do so imo in a mostly totally random way. With a vaneer of authenticity. I know one thing if scientists and designers of "real" aircraft were doing this, in this way, they would get laughed at.

I honestly think in a hyper competitive environment (despite what I hear people say) like online d/fighting, especially at Warclouds, people will use every edge they can get bar cheating to get their OWN interests served.

jermin122
04-19-2006, 05:14 AM
What do you mean by 95%? I killed spit25 too, but only when its energy is much more less than me, if he is 500m lower than me with the same air speed, I can hardly zoom outclimb it even I am in a K4C3. If a performance test is subjective and a totally random way in your eyes, I have to doubt your logics.

stathem
04-19-2006, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by nearmiss:
I made a test.

I went into the FMB and built a simple mission. I placed 6 of the most Uber fighters in a straight run climbing race. They all started at the same time had enough time to get to max speed and then they started their climb to 12 Km.

P51-D, Spit IXE, BF109K, LA7, BF109G/AS,Yak3

The P-51D jumped ahead fast and furious, but began to peter out against serious competition from the Spit IXE, BF109K and LA7 before they reached 5KM.

That darn Spit went to 12KM way before the pack and ran off and left them when it flattened out at 12Km.

The Yak3 was out of the running at 4K alt.

If you kept the max altitude under 4K the P-51D and the La7 were always above and ahead of the pack. The Spit almost caught them at the finish (across the Kuban Map)

The Spit was the player aircraft so I could read the instruments on it. That darn thing never over-heated, it just kept going up up up at 4-5 bars on the attitude indicator. All I can say is... If that thing can cut it in a Furball at low levels as well, it's gotta be the most Uber aircraft NOW.

I normally fly Luftwaffe so needless to say, I was just amazed. The difference in performance as compared to the other aircraft was like night and day.

Sure a good pilot makes the difference, but a good pilot in the SPIT has gotta be a tough combination to beat.

I'm not sure we need the XIV http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

I take it you had the Spit as the player a/c and were letting the AI control it?

If that's the case, try doing the same with a Tempest and watch the Temperature gauges like a hawk...you will note the AI can run that notorious overheater flat out and the gauges never move.

stathem
04-19-2006, 05:28 AM
In any competitive collection of people,animals, machines or virtual aircraft, one thing will always be the 'best'. Put Schumacher in the best F1 car and he will be unbeatable. What you going to do, ban that one? and then the next best? and so on?

So the Spit IX at +25lb was it. So what? Where's the rule that says the fliers of a Luftwaffe persuasion must have the 'best'?

So now the Dora9 is the 'new best' on warclouds. Some would say, and with good justification, that it always was. Shall we whinge and gripe and moan until that's banned?

Maybe we'll all end up flying Gladiators. Actually that sounds like a lot of fun.

jermin122
04-19-2006, 05:58 AM
Why we buy and play this game? Well, we, human beings play games to entertain ourselves, to relax ourselves, to make pleasures. If all a game gives us are indignant and unhappy feelings, e.g. continuously be shot down due to A/C performance gap, not skills problem and this situation won't be changed in a long period, some of us of course will lose faith of this game and leave eventually. One side play happily while the other side painfully, you can imagine their feelings--just like the "whinners" cried in the forum. From the number change of each side, one can easily tells which side is "really" porked. Recently the num of blue pilots descends rapidly. Some of them had changed to the red side, but more of them just left this game because of their faith of the German fighters.

Lucius_Esox
04-19-2006, 06:11 AM
Ermm,
My logics are about referencing EVERY piece of material pertaining to a test so I, the observer (technician/designer/scientist) can make their own judgements as to usefullnes/validity.

This is precisely what is done in any serious endevour whether it be scientific or academic.

It would give everyone the view of where the source information came from and would certainly put a few noses on here out of joint if people cared to check.

Oleg I believe is a scientist, but he is also a businesman. I think he is a scientist first though. I do wonder how and why the Spitfire basically imo gets slandered so much. That doesn't bother me of course, sticks and stones http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

What does bother me is why an aircraft, which was around in appreciable numbers, is not included in certain servers planesets which are meant to be historical..

Playbalence??? It was too good in real life so we are not having it here, and as Stathem says what about the Dora then????

Using this argument to say the 262 should also be included,, ok. Maybe some way of putting aircraft into planesets based on an average chance of encountering one then?

Whinging about an aircrafts "supposed" unreal superiority, when in fact IT COULD BE TRUE, without "real" facts, is just a tad shy of cheating imo.

Make enough noise and someone will listen though.

You quoted the Warclouds forums. There are quite a few very intelligent responses on how to deal with the 25's, most of them viable in my experience http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

Getting away from proving things as much as possible, for which I neither have the time or the inclination, I would say..

something stinks

Lucius_Esox
04-19-2006, 06:19 AM
Do you know what gets me. We are meant to be playing a "sim" and there is some assumption that everyone should have a fair chance, why?

It certainly wasn't like that in real life.

So basically I'm only happy when it's relatively easy to kill something.

There are many who espouse the prowess of blue pilots over red one's lol,, prove it then in supposedly inferior machines.

For sure some dohttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Von_Rat
04-19-2006, 07:26 AM
first off i never had problem killing spit25s, i didn't want them removed from wc, and i said so in their forums.

now that being said, the problem was people stopped playing. you can use all the arguments you want, call them whiners etc, but you can't force people to play. sort of the same thing happened when 262s were banned from most servers, red side left because they didn't want to fly against it.

i agree that d9 has always been best prop fighter. but it takes a certain kind of pilot to be good in it. you put a tnb guy in it, all he'll do is die. thats why its not whined about like the spit, which practically anybody who can fly half way decent can do good in it.


btw the planes that red side did whine the most about imho, the k4 the g2 the ta and the very limited 262 were removed along with the spit25 from wc.

jermin122
04-19-2006, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
Ban it I hear people say,, oh thats already happened to the 25 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif


Guess what? A spit25 cost us one K4C3, one K4, one 262, one Do335, one Ta152. Not a bad deal, isn't it? I'd rahter swap spit25 with these planes.

However, removing spit25 and other A/Cs from the planeset isn't a good solution. What we need is Oleg's tuning of the FM. Let a BnZ fighter be a BnZ fighter, let an E-fighter be an E-fighter. Pretty easy huh? I believe it is within the present PC hardware's ability.

Brain32
04-19-2006, 08:54 AM
So now the Dora9 is the 'new best' on warclouds. Some would say, and with good justification, that it always was. Shall we whinge and gripe and moan until that's banned?
Spit25 huh? Are we going to bring this back again? Well in the similar manner as Von Rat, I have no problems shooting down any FW or 109 in a plain MkIXe or HF, how about that?
Stathem, you are a very reasonable guy and I know I flew with you many times, and all of you guys that fly in the same time zone as me also know I fly both sides(although mostly Red). Why was so difficult for some of you to understand that Spit25 was just TOO MUCH, yes I could shoot it down, that's not the point. The point is that if two equally skilled players would meet Spit25 would win 100% of time, the biggest gap being on the newer guys with less expirience, second thing, I don't know under which name you play Lucius_Esox or at which time, but I was sick and tired playing on the server with vastly outnumbered oposition that could barely hold it's own on the maps. If you like sightseeing I recommend FS2004, I hear it's good.
And just for the record I thing Spit25 is modelled slightly optimisticly in our game and regarding the "energy model"(zoom, dive, E-retention) now where does one find docs for that huh?
I mean speed,turn,climb,roll is ok, I can even "buy" the overheat model(highly suspicious) but all that is OK, but "energy model".


Do you know what gets me. We are meant to be playing a "sim" and there is some assumption that everyone should have a fair chance, why?
Sightseeing!!! That's why.

stathem
04-19-2006, 09:04 AM
I know you think that Brain, and you're entitled to. I don't want it back, in fact I never flew it in anger.

But I'm glad it's there, even if only in the hangar, because

a) it illustrates to people who used to disparage the Spitfire exactly what a '45 Spit was capable of.

b) it gives the leverage to remove the planes which make the US planes and Tempest uncompetitive.

I wrote what I wrote because the incessant whines of some of the fanatical blue flyers are beginning to grate.

Lucius_Esox
04-19-2006, 11:36 AM
Ok Brain, point taken about the sightseeing thing,, that makes me a little sad though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Wouldn't it be good if people tried to improve their skills instead,,,

I fly as Noddy and haven't been on there as much recently because of other commitments. I virtually fly the Spit all the time although not the 25 when it was available, well only about 10 sorties.

I fly it because I like the plane and honestly would fly it still if it was inferior, we all got our favourites http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The truth about how realistic the various fm's are, how will we ever know?

There are some might mighty biased people out there and I suppose that is what really get's me.

Von_Rat
04-19-2006, 12:21 PM
Using this argument to say the 262 should also be included,, ok. Maybe some way of putting aircraft into planesets based on an average chance of encountering one then?

if your talking about a late war server, heres some interesting numbers from the book last year of the luftwaffe.

serviceable aircraft on apiril 9th 1945 for luftflotte reich. thats the luftflotte charged with the air defence of germany.

"389 serviceable fighters, of which just over a hundred were jet propelled."

the exact numbers of serviceable fighter aircraft given are...

101,,, bf109

89,,, me262

22,,, me163

175,,, fw190

2,,,,, ta152

so if your talking a very late war scenerio the odds of you running into a jet over germany weren't that much less than running into a 109, at least in luftflotte reichs area of responability.

if you add in luftwaffenkommando wests 76 bf109s you have 177 109s on the west front versus 89 262s. so the odds of seeing a jet on west front very late war are still pretty good compared to 109s.

note,,, these are servicable numbers, if you use avaiable numbers, the number of 262s goes up quite a bit.


it seems to me that on late war west front servers the 262 has much more of a right to be included than the ta152 does. and probaly as much right as the dora. but on the late war servers i fly on most allow ta and dora. none that i know of now allow the 262. gee i wonder why. could it be that its because the 262 is perceived as unbalancing the server, but the ta and dora does not.

maybe if people would increase their skills both the 262 and spit25 would be allowed.

stathem
04-19-2006, 12:58 PM
Noddy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Say hello to eShark for me, he's pretty local to me.

Sintubin
04-19-2006, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by AFJ_Locust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jermin122:
Skilled spitfire can cope with at least 3 blue fighters at one time. Even noob spit can fight 2 blue fighters simultaneously. Except maxspeed, all the other performances are among the best. It is overmodeled and blue fighters are castrated and Oleg is unwilling to touch it. This is the very reason that so many pilots has left this game.

Personaly i think your Insane, Just today I took FWA6, 100% fuel, flew for 45 minuts & killed 5 spits, YOU must SUX if you think German ac are undermodled your flying them wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hehe realy

you took FW190 and shot 5 spits hmmm

LET ME SAY LIER http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

In noob server yes

not in real ))

tel me how did you do it

when they didned saw you maybe yes in 1 pas

Sintubin
04-19-2006, 01:27 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jermin122:
Skilled spitfire can cope with at least 3 blue fighters at one time. Even noob spit can fight 2 blue fighters simultaneously. Except maxspeed, all the other performances are among the best. It is overmodeled and blue fighters are castrated and Oleg is unwilling to touch it. This is the very reason that so many pilots has left this game.
I haven't seen anyone I know leaving this game because they think Spitfires are overmodeled or German planes are under. Not one. Just hyping up a viewpoint I think.

No way that a newbie Spitfire pilot can go up against 3 Luftwaffe fighters. You have to have newbie pilots all around to produce that sort of behavior. I've seen it...its stupid. You probably haven't seen a good Focke Wulf driver as they are nearly untouchable. Particularly if your a newbie Spit driver and haven't mastered some of the finer techniques of air combat. Infact, there is maybe 15% of online pilots I see that actually have ACM mastered or show an understanding of it. The rest are either completely oblivious or are only somewhat aware of basic techniques.

Case in point...most online pilots think the break turn is the best way to avoid enemy fire and its virtually the only tactic they use. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have

manny of them

Spit is overmod... like it our not

VW-IceFire
04-19-2006, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Sintubin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AFJ_Locust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jermin122:
Skilled spitfire can cope with at least 3 blue fighters at one time. Even noob spit can fight 2 blue fighters simultaneously. Except maxspeed, all the other performances are among the best. It is overmodeled and blue fighters are castrated and Oleg is unwilling to touch it. This is the very reason that so many pilots has left this game.

Personaly i think your Insane, Just today I took FWA6, 100% fuel, flew for 45 minuts & killed 5 spits, YOU must SUX if you think German ac are undermodled your flying them wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hehe realy

you took FW190 and shot 5 spits hmmm

LET ME SAY LIER http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

In noob server yes

not in real ))

tel me how did you do it

when they didned saw you maybe yes in 1 pas </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The first time I went and seriously flew on WarClouds I flew with three other pilots flying FW190D-9s and we collectively shot down 9 Spitfires for 0 losses. I call BS...

MrMojok
04-19-2006, 03:55 PM
I think you guys should make it so that if you fly Red in a late-war server, you have only like a 2% chance of seeing a Blue plane. You could fly each night for weeks and never see anything to shoot.

Max.Power
04-19-2006, 05:05 PM
I think it's a question of knowing the performance envelopes of the aircraft you are flying vs. the aircraft you are flying against. The spit25 is a low (alt) boosted, high pressure variant and it gasps for breath at high alt. It would be safer to assume that if you were encountering a spitfire at high altitude that it was a mk9 HF, but the fact remains...

I have no problem shooting down spitfires unless I'm bounced at a disadvantage. Then the task becomes an excercise on how to reduce the energy deficit. A lot of the problem I think that people are having is with situational awareness, and I'm not just talking about where the enemy is in relation to you.

Lucius_Esox
04-19-2006, 06:58 PM
Say hello to eShark for me, he's pretty local to me.


Will do m8. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif He seems to fly most of his time on the Winds of War server now, well it is the FA server I suppose.

Me, I still prefer Warclouds but I must say it quietly oherwise I will get sacked from the FA... Ohh http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I think Sparx has got the icons just right, and dare I say the planeset is pretty balenced now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif lol.

Von Rat,
I make you right. In Ray Holmes book Sky Spy he talks about dodging 262's,, and KOMETS, in his sorties over Germany in 1945.

Fascinating reading seeing how he dodged the b.u.g.g.e.r.s in his PR Spit.

Also in it he decribes how 163's were launched as the Spits were flying over the top of them and guided on to them by radar. They just accelerated up underneath them and bang, Spit pilot never even knew what hit em. A lot of PR planes were lost this way in 1945.

I think it would be an excellent idea to have some maps made up to reflect the true makeup of the aircraft flying late war.

Trouble I think the idea is to have some sort of consistancy in the planesets so people always got the chance of their fav ride, also probably a lot of work for someone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Of course there is also the issue that the LW might be a little outnumbered. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

It's probably not feasable anyway because I dont believe there is anyway to set the planesets up to accomodate this,,, maybe in BOB though

EiZ0N
04-19-2006, 07:24 PM
I think the solution is have limited numbers of specific aircraft in a map.

The Battle-fields server does this I think. I like it very much, but it can be a bit buggy (I got kicked for some reason even though I'd had my plane since before there were zero left).

A fully working system like that would be great.