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Unknown_Target
02-13-2006, 08:52 AM
Hey everyone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I was hoping some people could share their tips for getting that bandit off your six (preferrably if you're in an allied plane, I fly the F6F). I usually fly by the idea that if they're on your tail, you're dead, but I would like some small ray of hope http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I used to be able to pull some slick maneuveris in the MiG 3 to get them off me, but the Allied aircraft aren't maneuverable enough/dont have the right energy properties for the same tricks to work.
Oh, also: how the heck do you beat the Spit? In online DF, if I'm in anything but a super maneuverable jap plane, the spit toasts me. Tips?

Thanks!

MrQBerrt
02-13-2006, 09:09 AM
This probably isn't what you're looking for, but the best thing is a wingman. Let your buddy have a nice easy kill and get your 6 cleared at the same time.

x6BL_Brando
02-13-2006, 09:36 AM
but the Allied aircraft aren't maneuverable enough/dont have the right energy properties for the same tricks to work.
Oh, also: how the heck do you beat the Spit?


Make your mind up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

IronKestrel
02-13-2006, 10:18 AM
Against humans, it's useful to remember they can't see you if you go below their noses on forced cockpit servers.

With AI, you can jink and fake and possibly fool them into breaking off. A lot depends upong the aircraft involved, of coure.

If anyone is 100m on your 6, you're in trouble. Best to avoid getting in that situation entirely!

Heavy_Metal1982
02-13-2006, 10:30 AM
You can always try for an overshoot. But it really depends on the situation. Is your opponet diving on you? you can try to scissor... I've never really been able to get that down properly http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

Diablo310th
02-13-2006, 10:44 AM
If your'e in a Jug and have altitude....split S. If you have a FW or Me and at high speed u can possibly do a sharp pull up to evade a shooting solution on his part. Zoom up and hammerhead down back onto him.

Unknown_Target
02-13-2006, 10:52 AM
MrQ: Yea...when I'm in a small server, I can usually pick up a wingman. Most of the time, however, I'm alone (airquake, unfortunately http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif)

Brando: Sorry, should have clarified http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The American planes that I fly (mostly the F6F-5) aren't maneuverable enough. The Spit is like this angelic being that never loses E and outturns almost anything http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Iron: Yea, I usually try to use that. I have a great story of where a guy strafed me on takeoff, missed, and I took off and stalked him for 10 miles, hiding in his blind spot, before he slowed down for his landing approach and I caught up and shot him down.

Heavy Metal: I need help with scissoring too...IIRC doesn't it give the more maneuverable aircraft the advantage?

Diablo: Will that work in an F6F? I find that the zoom climb in that A/C is lacking, and with this patch, the aircraft (in general) are more prone to flopping around like a dead fish than being positively controllable at such a low speed. Is there a special/proper way to keep stick control once you hit that low speed mark?

Treetop64
02-13-2006, 11:01 AM
Well, if you're flying an F6 you need to avoid a turning fight at costs. NEVER get in a fight in this plane unless you have the clear altitude advantage, and a wingman to cover your backside.

Attack an enemy plane ONLY when you are diving down on him, and make only one turn to follow his evasive turns. You will need to be proficient in deflection shooting to make this tactic work, however, and sometimes you will have to fire "blind", meaning deflection shooting while your target is concealed by the nose of your aircraft. Once you fly a particular plane enough times, you'll get the feel on how to do this.

If you follow these steps, and he still manages to get behind you, you should have built enough speed during your dive to pull away from him without having to employ any energy-sapping fancy maneuvers. Besides, trying to turn with a far more maneuverable foe will end up having yourself shot down.

Unknown_Target
02-13-2006, 11:12 AM
Ah, alright. I was told somewhere that the F6F was good at turning...maybe only compared to American Pacific fighters http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
So I should use the same tactics as I do in the F4U (my old ride)?
Also, what should I do in a low alt/low speed situation? Run and pray they can't shoot straight? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Diablo310th
02-13-2006, 11:24 AM
Diablo: Will that work in an F6F? I find that the zoom climb in that A/C is lacking, and with this patch, the aircraft (in general) are more prone to flopping around like a dead fish than being positively controllable at such a low speed. Is there a special/proper way to keep stick control once you hit that low speed mark?

Not sure how teh Hellcat will handle it. The trick is to have lots of speed when you try it. When you zoom up stay on the edge of a blackout and don't wait till you reach stall speed to start the turn downward. I have found if I do that I have negated my advantage in zoom by allowing teh enemy ac to catch me with their acceleration advantage. I haven't flown the Hellcat in awhile so I'm not sure how well it zooms.

Treetop64
02-13-2006, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Unknown_Target:
Ah, alright. I was told somewhere that the F6F was good at turning...maybe only compared to American Pacific fighters http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
So I should use the same tactics as I do in the F4U (my old ride)?
Also, what should I do in a low alt/low speed situation? Run and pray they can't shoot straight? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The F6, F4, P47, indeed most late war American fighters turn very well, but only at speed. The faster they go, the better they turn (to a point, obviously). This counters a lot of the European aircraft, which turn extremely well at low speeds, but become increasingly sluggish the faster they go (beyond a point).

The key to winning a fight, or at least dictating the terms of the fight, in an American aircraft is to keep your speed up. Your speed at your lowest kinetic E-moment ideally should not drop below 200 mph, but at this stage you should have plenty of altitude, hence plenty of potential energy in store.

Unfortunately, if you're low and slow, and you get bounced, everything has conspired to work against you. You have little kinetic energy, and virtually no potential energy, while your foe has plenty of both. The best thing to do is to keep yourself out of that situation in the first place!

Unknown_Target
02-13-2006, 04:15 PM
Well, after some testing, some of the techniques worked. I've started to treat the Hellcat more like the Corsair, and have gotten better results; i.e. when a bad guy is on my six, just gunning the throttle and extending. Only problem is on BnZ; the aircraft kicks about so much because of the 50s, its impossible to score any hits. I just end up spraying and praying. Pointers for keeping it under control?

Treetop64
02-13-2006, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by Unknown_Target:
Only problem is on BnZ; the aircraft kicks about so much because of the 50s, its impossible to score any hits. I just end up spraying and praying. Pointers for keeping it under control?

Practice, practice, and more practice. There is no "quick fix" in getting good at scoring hits. It takes a whole lot of time and patience to just get competent at hitting what you're shooting at. It's never easy.

But I tell ya, once you get the hang of it, it is extremely rewarding to see those little "flashes" (and those big "bangs" from cannon fire) from the rounds connecting on the guy you're shooting at! It is so rewarding because you have to work so long and hard to get to the point where you can actually hit something.

This sim rewards hard work and preseverance. It is certainly not for those looking for instant gratification.

Unknown_Target
02-13-2006, 06:19 PM
I'm not hoping for instant gratification, I was just hoping for a way to keep the bronco under control http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I usually kick the rudder around a bit, but that only helps in some scenarios.

Treetop64
02-13-2006, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by Unknown_Target:
I'm not hoping for instant gratification, I was just hoping for a way to keep the bronco under control http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I usually kick the rudder around a bit, but that only helps in some scenarios.

My bad, Target. I wasn't implying that you were looking for instant gratification. Sorry... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Unknown_Target
02-13-2006, 07:13 PM
No problem, it's all good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

littlemosquito
02-13-2006, 08:34 PM
This is what I do lol I just break away really sharp to make it diffilcult for the bandit to aim at me lol, turn say he is making a right turn onto your tail you break right really sharp lol but not too hard on your stick though ! lol watch your back all the time though !! keep him in sight !! look in your rear mirror or something or look back if you don't see him ! he is directly on your six you're dead ! lol

JG52_Cyanide
02-14-2006, 07:42 AM
(un)fortunately there is no "perfect" way of getting that enemy of your six.

Suppose he has more energy and is trying to boom and zoom you: turn to a patch 90 degrees of him and try for a reversal when he tries to follow. (scissors).

When he is really close, it sometimes helps to throw the stick forward and apply full rudder....he will miss his initial pass.

Just last night I was in a slow scissoring fight with a P39 (I was in a 109) and because he had more E, he tried a high yoyo.....I threw throttle to '0 and put full flaps and made him overshoot on his diving pass......straight into my gunsight http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif but that was sheer luck.

Best way is to be unpredictable

Diablo310th
02-14-2006, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by Unknown_Target:
Well, after some testing, some of the techniques worked. I've started to treat the Hellcat more like the Corsair, and have gotten better results; i.e. when a bad guy is on my six, just gunning the throttle and extending. Only problem is on BnZ; the aircraft kicks about so much because of the 50s, its impossible to score any hits. I just end up spraying and praying. Pointers for keeping it under control?

use short 1 sec. bursts

Saunders1953
02-14-2006, 10:51 AM
My tests have shown that harsh language is not effective.

I love the scissors. It's a real thrill right above the treetops. If you can get a little height advantage while scissoring, you can often roll to the inverted position to keep better track of a more manueverable aircraft.

When that fails, out comes the ineffective harsh language.

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-14-2006, 11:08 AM
It also depends on which type of aircraft you have on your 6. If it's the typical F6F(you) vs A6M(him) then the things to remember are:

You're faster, but he accelerates better. Keep up your speed

You roll much better than he does at high speed so a high-speed scissor is an excellent way to turn the tables

(as Diablo said) use short bursts. Your control will be better and if you've maintained your speed/Energy you'll simply wear him down after even a few strikes. Then you can go in for the kill.


TB

tisoy505
02-14-2006, 11:52 AM
Thought I would just chime in, I heard a british ace say he used to use rudder trim one way or the other while in fligt, he looked like he was going straight but obviously he wasn't. This seems to work for me with (mostly with less experienced guys or tough angled shots), the other thing is if they come up fast on you, wiggle a bit, then full flaps, landing gear(if dire cicrumstances) and pull up about 45 deg, they may score a few hits, but should cruise by, then full throttle (landing gear should still be cycling), gear up, flaps up, and prey a teamate jumps in, or that you can zoom away, remeber he'll have the E advantage still and will circle back around. Good luck, it doesn't always work, but a Hellcat can take a few punches and keep going.

...and about shooting, like already mentioned keep your bursts short, you'll get'em it's all about patience. **** Bong(top american ace) said he was a horriable shot so he would fly up so close he couldn't miss then let loose.

-Good luck

Fatalvision
02-14-2006, 04:05 PM
It is usually me on his 6.

There is no manuever worth trying other than Ctrl-E as I usually only open fire when I'm really close.

Thanks for the mention tho.

-Slash-