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Wedge598
05-04-2007, 07:48 AM
For my first Campaign I'm using unlimited ammo as I try to hone my dogfighting skills so I don't have to worry about running out.

The problem is I don't really want unlimited bombs. I got to wondering when I ran my first bombing mission if the flight model assumes I have the bombs attached indefinitely or does the model change once I drop the first ones?

In the mission I need to engage the enemy fighters after the bombing run but I was thinking that the plane still felt sluggish. When I went to an external view I could still see bombs attached. Am I at a big disadvantage with unlimited ammo in this situation?

WWSpinDry
05-04-2007, 07:53 AM
Originally posted by Wedge598:
Am I at a big disadvantage with unlimited ammo in this situation?
Yes

Pollack2006
05-04-2007, 07:58 AM
Just drop to the deck and entice the enemy fighters to follow you. Then pump that bomb release button for all you're worth....you should rack up a good score.

Deadmeat313
05-04-2007, 08:00 AM
Using unlimited ammo will IMO teach you some bad habits which you will later need to unlearn. You might be better just taking the plunge in limited ammo.

Go with a kite that has plenty of ammo to play with (like the Bf-109) and you should be ok.


T.

Chris0382
05-04-2007, 08:08 AM
I use unlimited ammo as I play offline. Yes we are at an dis-advantage. Autopilot actually rolls the plane sending bombs in every direction at times and tries to dump them for the ride back.

It seems the AI never runs out though.

Also when coming in for landing you have to be extra careful as anything but a perfect landing seems to cause the bombs or rockets to go off. You'll learn how to land real good.

Huxley_S
05-04-2007, 08:12 AM
It's a pretty big flaw in the game that unlimited ammo also means unlimited bombs, and that leads to the problems you're having and also having to land an aircraft with bombs attached.

Really, a campaign is not the best scenario to learn dogfighting skills because you're spending most of your time flying from A to B and very little time actually dogfighting.

If you want to set up some interesting dogfight scenarios try Mission Mate...

http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=8

You're better off playing these kinds of missions with unlimited ammo and campaigns with settings at Realistic, but with external views, padlock and speedbar enabled.

DKoor
05-04-2007, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by WWSpinDry:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wedge598:
Am I at a big disadvantage with unlimited ammo in this situation?
Yes </div></BLOCKQUOTE>x2

WWSpinDry
05-04-2007, 08:29 AM
The one time I believe unlimited ammo is useful is during bombing practice--especially dive bombing. There are oddities, like when some aircraft have bombs in different positions for multiple normal drops and so you never get to those mount points, but in general it's useful to be able to make multiple passes onto the same target point to hone your approach. Never strafe at that time, though, because you get unrealistic feeling for how much ammo you can use per pass. Any time you practice with MGs or cannon go back to limited ammo.

Aside from that one, limited application I really believe using unlimited ammo is a bad, bad idea, even for beginners.

Huxley_S
05-04-2007, 08:42 AM
Aside from that one, limited application I really believe using unlimited ammo is a bad, bad idea, even for beginners.

That's a good point. You need to get into the habit of using short, controlled bursts.

With unlimited ammo you are just going to spray and pray and not learn much.

Wedge598
05-04-2007, 08:52 AM
All good points. And honestly I know the issues with learning bad habits. Which is why I'm trying to use short bursts and play as if I do have limited ammo. It's just that I was thinking that for my first campaign I wouldn't risk running out so I'd try it with umlimited.

Now that I'm 5 missions in I almost think I could have done alright with limited ammo anyway. I'm just trying to have fun mostly but I'm also trying to be as realistic as I can without compromizing that fun.

At the moment I'm just using a couple other cheats, the heads up tags and full icons on the map. I'm sure most of you will cringe knowing that I'm using the aircraft tags to help me find my enemies easier in the sky but I'm not yet convinced even at 1680x1050 resolution I can see the other aircraft well enough to identify them clearly from any reasonable distance.

As I'm getting more experience I'm going back to quick missions to test my skills with some of those cheats turned off. As I get more comfortable I'll start some campaigns without them.

Chris0382
05-04-2007, 09:27 AM
A lot of times in these Offline Campaigns you get Mission Complete before you engage the enemy. At that time your faced with 20 bombers 5 - fighters (some of which are those impossible to kill aceswith physics defying manuevers)and you want to clean house as much as possible. Thats when unlimited ammo comes in handy.

Can you really clean up good with limited ammo in a situation like this?

Huxley_S
05-04-2007, 09:49 AM
At the moment I'm just using a couple other cheats, the heads up tags and full icons on the map. I'm sure most of you will cringe knowing that I'm using the aircraft tags to help me find my enemies easier in the sky but I'm not yet convinced even at 1680x1050 resolution I can see the other aircraft well enough to identify them clearly from any reasonable distance.

Learning with icons is a good idea. It takes a while to learn how to identify aircraft without them. The main give-away of course is the tracer fire, blue for axis and red for allied.

flyingloon
05-04-2007, 09:57 AM
using a higher res will actually make the planes less visible in the sky. someone will no doubt give a better explanation, but i think the game is optimised for 1024x768 or similar, and as planes at a distance are represented by dots of only a few ( 4 i think) pixels, it means having a higher resolution will make them near impossible to see.
edited for typos

SithSpeeder
05-04-2007, 10:18 AM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
It's a pretty big flaw in the game that unlimited ammo also means unlimited bombs, and that leads to the problems you're having and also having to land an aircraft with bombs attached.... I wouldn't call this a flaw...I would call it as-designed. But your other points are valid in that a campaign is NOT a good place to run unlimited ammo.

But as the original poster noted, he probably could have been successful in the first 5 missions with limited ammo.

YMMV.

* _54th_Speeder *

Huxley_S
05-04-2007, 10:22 AM
I wouldn't call this a flaw...

It would be better to have unlimited ammo / unlimited bombs as separate options IMO. Not that I would dream of using either! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

simel1959
05-04-2007, 10:54 AM
So far I only use unlimited ammo in my campaigns that use yak fighters,because all versions of the yak only carried 9 seconds of ammo.where as other planes carry much more.I learned of this from the stormovik essentials link under cockpit/ammo reference link.One of the planes that holds the most ammo is the IL2.many times I have succesfully taken on 109's in the IL2,blasting away at longer ranges[between 45-30 on the distance meter] with my cannon and blowing them out of the sky,What a HOOT!Just make sure you have got rid of any external bombs or rockets as they will slow your IL2 way down

ddpairborne59
05-04-2007, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Huxley_S:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Aside from that one, limited application I really believe using unlimited ammo is a bad, bad idea, even for beginners.

That's a good point. You need to get into the habit of using short, controlled bursts.

With unlimited ammo you are just going to spray and pray and not learn much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Half the fun when running out of ammo (sometimes "only" just low on ammo) is heading home after the misson and facing the other challenges such as avoiding enemy fighters lurking about, flak, and a safe pancake.

Xiolablu3
05-04-2007, 12:46 PM
I used ot play with unlimited ammo when I first started, if you ewant to learn dogfighting quick then get online onto the 334th server.

Bearcat99
05-04-2007, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Wedge598:
For my first Campaign I'm using unlimited ammo as I try to hone my dogfighting skills so I don't have to worry about running out.

The problem is I don't really want unlimited bombs. I got to wondering when I ran my first bombing mission if the flight model assumes I have the bombs attached indefinitely or does the model change once I drop the first ones?

In the mission I need to engage the enemy fighters after the bombing run but I was thinking that the plane still felt sluggish. When I went to an external view I could still see bombs attached. Am I at a big disadvantage with unlimited ammo in this situation?

In a campaign ... yes. IMO campaigns should be run with as much realism as you can handle, and regardless to what other settings you may use as far as views, icons etc..... realism starts with limitted ammo, fuel and full CEM functions enabled. From there is is a matter of personal tastes and hardware.

If I am not mistaken the FM does not change when you drop the bombs because as soon as you drop one.. you have another. It would be nice if the ammo load functions could be individually set.



Originally posted by Deadmeat313:
Using unlimited ammo will IMO teach you some bad habits which you will later need to unlearn. You might be better just taking the plunge in limited ammo.
Go with a kite that has plenty of ammo to play with (like the Bf-109) and you should be ok.
T.


Originally posted by Wedge598:
All good points. And honestly I know the issues with learning bad habits. Which is why I'm trying to use short bursts and play as if I do have limited ammo.

Yes and no. I would say that all depends on how you use unlimited ammo. IMO UA is actually best when used for target practice, along with invulnerability. If all you are doing is trying to work solely on marksmanship.. As long as you take note on when you get hit and what you are doing... and more importantly shoot as if you had limited ammo.. Short bursts, except for the surefire killing one... and always finish any marksmanship practice session with limitted ammo and full vulnerability . That tells you what you have learned and keeps your mind on the loadout. Picking up a plane that carries more ammo can be counter productive. It is best to pick your primary mount first and then do the same with the other planes you prefer to fly, and finally some that you really just dont crae for at all.