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rhinomonkey
09-28-2007, 04:35 AM
great story!

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0926tomcruise-CR.html

R_Target
09-28-2007, 06:19 AM
Everyone's a critic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Lubcke
09-28-2007, 06:20 AM
Originally posted by rhinomonkey:
great story!

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0926tomcruise-CR.html

What's great about some ******* farting in inappropriate time?

Bearcat99
09-28-2007, 06:27 AM
Comedians will have a field day with this one for sure...

Friendly_flyer
09-28-2007, 06:30 AM
For once I quite agree with Mr. Cruise.

EiZ0N
09-28-2007, 06:55 AM
How stupid, trying to fire him.

Tom Cruise is an idiot.

BorisGruschenko
09-28-2007, 07:36 AM
Well, you know, an OT8 (operating thetan 8) is capable of controlling his entire physiology - including the gastro-intestinal system. So no farting if not required. No mercy for lesser beings, I suppose.

bigbossmalone
09-28-2007, 09:03 AM
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa226/bigbossmalone/0720valkyrie.jpg
'Ve vill not make fun of ze Fuhrer...'
Herr Cruise 'von Buttplug'
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Cajun76
09-28-2007, 09:08 AM
The silence was filmed and now Cruise and the producers will go through the footage to identify the culprit, who is likely to be fired.

Seems like they should take a moment to realize the inherent freedom they're trying to punish. Must be a great actor if he's playing an anti-Nazi.

leitmotiv
09-28-2007, 09:56 AM
Obviously the miscreant is a closet Nazi, and his displacement of gas was a political act. He must be ferreted-out, brought to justice, reeducated, and serve time for possession of poisonous ideas. Enemy of the State. Thought Crime via arse. No mercy. Also, act was an act of disrespect towards the greatest actor in the world. For this the miscreant should be shot.

MEGILE
09-28-2007, 11:05 AM
Leitmotiv, have you seen equilibrium?

Korolov1986
09-28-2007, 11:30 AM
The guy who farted should be shot.

We rarely ever get to hear Tom Cruise with his mouth shut, and he had to ruin it.

NIMITZ1967
09-28-2007, 11:51 AM
Mercey SAKES!!! Breaking wind in the sacred presence itself........im suitably appalled for the sake of all those WW2 German vets who may have had the same reaction as Tom to ze fartung noise....Sp**** Milligan once quipped in "Rommel ,Gunner Who" " VEE vill sho zem who is MASTER of ze fartung noise!"...,.Mind you , this is the same comedian/veteran of Desert war and Italy who asked in a previuos book "Had we, the ordinary layabouts, beaten the formidable German Army?"....He stated this in his diary, observing Afrika Korps prisoners having "rassberrys" and "farting noises" blown at them with cries of "Ein riech, Ein volk, Ein ********!!!!!!".....powerfully funny stuff, Spike Milligan. (His tombstone in Sydney reads "I told you I was sick"..) a truly funny veteran. Cruise should wake up to himself....he sounds like one of those Julius Hiede style characters from Sven Hassels eastern front period books...Julius was the sections "resident Nazi who would be regularly baited by the more cynical members of Svens Company. Porta and Kliene tried to kill Julius on many an occasion....im sure Nicol Kidman would like to do the same thing (HAVE YOU SEEN the great job done by the makers of COLD MOUNTAIN?...their version of Petersburgs "Battle of The Crater" does complete justice in the time allowed, and has a shot of Lees Troops CLAMOURING to get a shot at the struggling mass below...WHAT A FILM

Waldo.Pepper
09-28-2007, 12:17 PM
Stauffenberg was willing to sacrifice his life to get Hitler. I too am willing to make a sacrifice. If I ever get the chance to fart on Tom Cruise, I'm taking it.

BSS_Goat
09-28-2007, 01:28 PM
Waldo, you are a true patriot.

Swivet
09-28-2007, 01:31 PM
LOL.....ever fart in church?...Yes...but it was a SBD, and i had the whole pew to myself then..Hmm "pew" kind of an oxymoron in this case http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif....Hey, when ya gotta go, ya gotta go!..But there must be some level of control in that particular situation, like honoring the dead in silence. To try and fire the guy is rediculous....Fired over a fart,,plueeeasee http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

carguy_
09-28-2007, 01:38 PM
Why fire the guy?Just kick his a$$ and forget the whole thing.

leitmotiv
09-28-2007, 01:39 PM
Nope, ain't seen Equilibrium, M, but it looks like a corker!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/

berg417448
09-28-2007, 02:17 PM
Maybe he though the fart was a signal to Xenu!

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23414203-...n+attack'/article.do (http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showbiz/article-23414203-details/Tom+Cruise+building+'%A35m+bunker+to+protect+again st+alien+attack'/article.do)

DrHerb
09-28-2007, 02:54 PM
Theres a comment I wanna post but I think its a little too non P/C to post, so Im gonna walk away from this one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

NIMITZ1967
09-28-2007, 03:00 PM
ummm....just for those interested(should there be any at all) The quote from spike, last word was a@s@h&l#

Choctaw111
09-28-2007, 03:06 PM
There are some things that you just HAVE to hold off and wait till you let 'er break loose. THAT would be one of those times.

DrHerb
09-28-2007, 03:17 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EpUBGntcp0

Messaschnitzel
09-28-2007, 03:33 PM
Hey Tom!

Pull my finger.

Daiichidoku
09-28-2007, 04:06 PM
from Wiki:

"Referring to Cruise in an interview for Süddeutsche Zeitung, Stauffenberg's eldest son Berthold, a retired German Bundeswehr general stated, "He should leave my father alone. He should go climb a mountain or go surfing in the Caribbean. I don't give a hoot as long as he keeps out of it." . One of the family's principal objections is Cruise's support for the Church of Scientology . Filming started almost on the exact anniversary of the failed assassination, on 19 July 2007 in Brandenburg"

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2007, 04:41 PM
Cruise may be a loon. Or perhaps a tomato sandwich

But in the year 2007, if they can make Tom Cruise look like he's average height, then you'd think they could edit a little "poot" out of an audio track, now wouldn't you?

SeaFireLIV
09-28-2007, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Choctaw111:
There are some things that you just HAVE to hold off and wait till you let 'er break loose. THAT would be one of those times.

Agreed.

M2morris
09-28-2007, 04:56 PM
It's a bodily function that sometimes can't be controlled. For example: In 2002 after a change of command ceremony in Afghanistan our new battalion commander called all of us NCOs into a briefing room so he could introduce himself. He had his staff prepare the room with a couple dozen or so metal folding chairs and we sat in silence as he cooly and calmly strolled from side to side as he spoke to us, told us where he is from, what kind of commander he is, what his expectations of us are, and answered any questions, etc. Durring his answere to a question from one of the Sergeants the LTC paused to find the right response, sort-of rung his hands for a moment while he was in thought, and then, without warning that moment of silence was interupted by a LOUD screaching high pitched fart that rang out from the *** of a petite pretty female SFC from S-1 sitting two seats in front of me. It ECHOED. It made the metal chair she was sitting on vibrate. All she could do was put both hands over her deeply reddened face. She was so embarrassed she was almost in teers, but we couldnt hold back from chuckling, and then later, laughing reall hard to ourselves. It was THE worst time to fart. I felt bad for her. I think Tom Cruise may be going over board, but if the guy did it on purpose well then thats different.

SeaFireLIV
09-28-2007, 05:08 PM
Actually, M2morris, you`re tale reminds me of a training session in karate where we were doing some sit-up crunches. One relatively new girl only about a week in suddenly farted right in the middle of it - LOUD. Everyone heard it. I could feel the redness all over her face!

She never came back again. I often wondered if it was because of the embarrasment of the fart.

If it had happened to me I would`ve shrugged it off taken the laughs and forgot about it.

p.s. No one laughed in her presence at the time.

M2morris
09-28-2007, 05:24 PM
Oh I have farted while doing situps too, cant help that, just except it and keep goin. I just say "hey I farted so what, what you lookin at?."
But I dont ever remember not being able to hold it til later just standing or sitting around.
My beer drinking cousin Larry tho is a different story. Once while in a cessna he had us all getting sick almost and forced us to open the windows.

HuninMunin
09-28-2007, 05:36 PM
Chuck, do you realise that this didnt occur during shoot but before during a minute of silence in remembrence of the plotters?
I can understand Cruise' reaction.

turnipkiller
09-28-2007, 06:08 PM
Sometimes you can't hold it. It's quite amazing the pressures the body can generate. I'm sure Tom will tell all on his next visit with Oprah. I hope she farts while he is talking though. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-28-2007, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by HuninMunin:
Chuck, do you realise that this didnt occur during shoot but before during a minute of silence in remembrence of the plotters?
I can understand Cruise' reaction.

Nope. And to be honest, I don't care. I'll tell you why

Who is Tom Cruise? Right, an actor

Just an actor. And one who apparently thinks he's got some right to place himself near a subject that he has no business getting close to. Is he a friend of the plotter's families? Is he a family member?

Not that I know of! So he chooses to get mad. Who the hell is Tom Cruise to get all up in arms about his little pet project? Nobody. he doesn't represent anyone, but he takes it upon himself to stand in for somebody who can, by the way he acts

He's nobody in this case, and he doesn;t have the right to be mad. He has just as much right to get mad about it as you or I do. I don't care if it's his project. Hell, he's getting paid, right? He's not a special human being, it's not his prerogative, He's a hollywood nobody, his fame means nothing here, and he's butting into personal matters he doesn't have a right to, if you ask me

heywooood
09-28-2007, 06:58 PM
whatever happened to rolling with the punches...so now Nazi-like intolerance will commemorate this film?

whenever people get too self-important or whatever its just so rediculous.

Tom Cruise is a product of the '80s in every sense so he should never be taken seriously.

bigbossmalone
09-28-2007, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
..and he's butting into personal matters ...
That pretty much sums it up.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

M2morris
09-28-2007, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by BBB462cid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HuninMunin:
Chuck, do you realise that this didnt occur during shoot but before during a minute of silence in remembrence of the plotters?
I can understand Cruise' reaction.

Nope. And to be honest, I don't care. I'll tell you why

Who is Tom Cruise? Right, an actor

Just an actor. And one who apparently thinks he's got some right to place himself near a subject that he has no business getting close to. Is he a friend of the plotter's families? Is he a family member?

Not that I know of! So he chooses to get mad. Who the hell is Tom Cruise to get all up in arms about his little pet project? Nobody. he doesn't represent anyone, but he takes it upon himself to stand in for somebody who can, by the way he acts

He's nobody in this case, and he doesn;t have the right to be mad. He has just as much right to get mad about it as you or I do. I don't care if it's his project. Hell, he's getting paid, right? He's not a special human being, it's not his prerogative, He's a hollywood nobody, his fame means nothing here, and he's butting into personal matters he doesn't have a right to, if you ask me </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Exactly man the guys just an actor, who cares wht he thinks, just because he goes ballistic about someone cuttin loose a little flatuance. The guys an attention-loving world figure wannabe. what a maxi rich tweeb.

roybaty
09-28-2007, 08:22 PM
This still make me laugh:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KrzIaRwAMvc

mortoma
09-28-2007, 08:26 PM
Who says the guy did it on purpose in the first place?? Such things can be quite accidental and come on suddenly with no control over it. Especially when you're over 40 years of age. I should know....lol!!!!

But anyway since it's not able to be proven that this person did it on purpose, he should not be fired. One time just as I came to the front of a meeting of about 20 people, to give a short speech in a small room I accidentally ripped one very loudly. And was quite embarrassed to say the least. Certainly I didn't do that on purpose, nobody would in their right mind.

mortoma
09-28-2007, 08:37 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Choctaw111:
There are some things that you just HAVE to hold off and wait till you let 'er break loose. THAT would be one of those times.

Agreed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Disagreed!! Maybe when you are younger you may have an easier time telling when this unfortunate function may be coming on and also be more able to hold it back. But as you age it can come on quite suddenly, with no warning. And even when you feel it coming on, you may have less control over those much older and looser muscles than you did when you were younger. I hate to be this blunt and candid but it needs to be said. Oh well, you'll find out when you get older.

Plus it needs to be said that Tom Cruise is a total jerk, who rides a high horse.

mortoma
09-28-2007, 08:41 PM
Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
For once I quite agree with Mr. Cruise. I quite disagree, feel free to read my two posts on the subject.

HayateAce
09-28-2007, 09:46 PM
Even better is the avatar of the 2nd commentor:

http://www.azcentral.com/members/User/Hammerhead

http://s.azcentral.com/home/File-/picture/7145/1/0/

knightflyte
09-29-2007, 04:19 AM
Originally posted by EiZ0N:
How stupid, trying to fire him.

Tom Cruise is an idiot.

AND THE PRODUCERS.

Sorry Tom gets enough flak for acting like an idiot when it comes to post partem woman and their choice of medications.
An ***hat who farts in a moment of silence is disrespectful. If he really had a gas attack come on he could have discreetly walked away, hold it for 30 seconds or god forbid say excuse me afterwards.

MEGILE
09-29-2007, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by M2morris:
It's a bodily function that sometimes can't be controlled. For example: In 2002 after a change of command ceremony in Afghanistan our new battalion commander called all of us NCOs into a briefing room so he could introduce himself. He had his staff prepare the room with a couple dozen or so metal folding chairs and we sat in silence as he cooly and calmly strolled from side to side as he spoke to us, told us where he is from, what kind of commander he is, what his expectations of us are, and answered any questions, etc. Durring his answere to a question from one of the Sergeants the LTC paused to find the right response, sort-of rung his hands for a moment while he was in thought, and then, without warning that moment of silence was interupted by a LOUD screaching high pitched fart that rang out from the *** of a petite pretty female SFC from S-1 sitting two seats in front of me. It ECHOED. It made the metal chair she was sitting on vibrate. All she could do was put both hands over her deeply reddened face. She was so embarrassed she was almost in teers, but we couldnt hold back from chuckling, and then later, laughing reall hard to ourselves. It was THE worst time to fart. I felt bad for her. I think Tom Cruise may be going over board, but if the guy did it on purpose well then thats different.

Amusing story.

Asuming it wasn't maliciously released, given the benefit of the doubt, then you just have to put it down to one of those things.
Really is it this much to get upset about?

I agree with chuck, but further IMO I don't think anyone has the right to be angry, let alone cruise or the Pope himself.

But that's just me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

MEGILE
09-29-2007, 04:27 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Nope, ain't seen Equilibrium, M, but it looks like a corker!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0238380/

I like it... it is in it's imperfections that it is a great movie IMO.

Bo_Nidle
09-29-2007, 07:50 AM
I would question the minutes silence for these so-called "anti-nazi heroes" in the first place.

This was not an underground movement of anti-nazi resistance opposing Hitler from when he initially came to power in 1933. (I am aware that Claus von Stauffenberg was apparently NOT a Nazi and I am also aware of the savage purge of the military that followed the attempt).

These were Military officers who could now see which way the wind was blowing and it was only then that they decided to try and eliminate a leader that they had been quite happy to follow while they were rampaging victoriously across Europe from 1939 up to 1944 when this incident took place.

This attempt only came so they could try and sue for peace with Hitler out of the way.

I would venture that if the tide of the war had been going in Germany's favour in 1944 that NO such attempt would ever have been made by them.

While I do not dispute that killing Hitler was the morally right thing for them to do, the attempt came a little too late and with the wrong motives to be regarded with the apparent respect that Mr Cruise is affording it.

Perhaps the rebellious crewmember recognised this and his breaking of wind was a contrary comment upon this IMHO somewhat hypocritical minutes silence.

Bewolf
09-29-2007, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
I would question the minutes silence for these so-called "anti-nazi heroes" in the first place.

This was not an underground movement of anti-nazi resistance opposing Hitler from when he initially came to power in 1933. (I am aware that Claus von Stauffenberg was apparently NOT a Nazi and I am also aware of the savage purge of the military that followed the attempt).

These were Military officers who could now see which way the wind was blowing and it was only then that they decided to try and eliminate a leader that they had been quite happy to follow while they were rampaging victoriously across Europe from 1939 up to 1944 when this incident took place.

This attempt only came so they could try and sue for peace with Hitler out of the way.

I would venture that if the tide of the war had been going in Germany's favour in 1944 that NO such attempt would ever have been made by them.

While I do not dispute that killing Hitler was the morally right thing for them to do, the attempt came a little too late and with the wrong motives to be regarded with the apparent respect that Mr Cruise is affording it.

Perhaps the rebellious crewmember recognised this and his breaking of wind was a contrary comment upon this IMHO somewhat hypocritical minutes silence.

In all honesty, those folks, whatever motives they had, stood in the old prussian tradition and were willing to sacrifice their lives for what they thought was the right thing, no matter how late it was, that is remove Hitler, sue for peace, as such sparing millions of ppl their lives. Most deaths in WW2 occured from the middle of 44 and 45. And they indeed paid the final price for this attempt. You also fail to notice that there were not only miliatary leaders involved in this, but also high ranking officials from back from the Weimar Republic, as such those beeing in a democratic tradition. This was not a small circle but a rather huge one, one that finally managed to overcome their "order is order no matter what" attitude.

I think those people should be honored. The message you send out is that there is no sense in trying to eliminate a cruel dictator just because you have the wrong motivation in the eyes of other countries. That's not only highly ignorant, but also a huge support for such regimes.

SeaFireLIV
09-29-2007, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
I would question the minutes silence for these so-called "anti-nazi heroes" in the first place.

This was not an underground movement of anti-nazi resistance opposing Hitler from when he initially came to power in 1933. (I am aware that Claus von Stauffenberg was apparently NOT a Nazi and I am also aware of the savage purge of the military that followed the attempt).

These were Military officers who could now see which way the wind was blowing and it was only then that they decided to try and eliminate a leader that they had been quite happy to follow while they were rampaging victoriously across Europe from 1939 up to 1944 when this incident took place.

This attempt only came so they could try and sue for peace with Hitler out of the way.

I would venture that if the tide of the war had been going in Germany's favour in 1944 that NO such attempt would ever have been made by them.

While I do not dispute that killing Hitler was the morally right thing for them to do, the attempt came a little too late and with the wrong motives to be regarded with the apparent respect that Mr Cruise is affording it.

Perhaps the rebellious crewmember recognised this and his breaking of wind was a contrary comment upon this IMHO somewhat hypocritical minutes silence.

If you were lying bleeding to death in the gutter and a man saw you and walked by because he was afraid of the thugs, but then 5 minutes later came back and picked you up, tried to help you, but was beaten to death by the thugs himself, would you then berate him for not helping you the first time round?

Cajun76
09-29-2007, 08:34 AM
Basically, I think the frustration stems from the fact that he's making this "drama" instead of Top Gun WWII.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v30/Cajun76/monty.jpg
I fart in his general direction!

HotelBushranger
09-29-2007, 09:12 AM
Originally posted by roybaty:
This still make me laugh:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KrzIaRwAMvc

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif That's bloody good!

knightflyte
09-29-2007, 11:29 AM
SPIT TAKE. Gawd! Time for the quicker picker-upper. "POWERRrrrr!!!!!"


You can barely hear it over Tom's laugh but I swear I hear Orpah say, "Don't taze me, Bro!"

(we need a spit take smiley on the forum by the way)

carguy_
09-29-2007, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
I would question the minutes silence for these so-called "anti-nazi heroes" in the first place.

Maybe not heroes, but people who gave their life for the right cause.Probably a close to a milion people would live throught the war if they ever succeeded..




These were Military officers who could now see which way the wind was blowing and it was only then that they decided to try and eliminate a leader that they had been quite happy to follow while they were rampaging victoriously across Europe from 1939 up to 1944 when this incident took place.

This attempt only came so they could try and sue for peace with Hitler out of the way.

If Hitler won Stalingrad I`m sure they wouldn`t try this.However the fact that they died trying deserves a moment of silence,don`t you think?Do you know what happened to the leader of this initiative?He was hung on a hook,imagine how it feels.I`m aware that if 3rd Reich had peace earlier then they would keep some lands,some benefits.The alternative of the outcome might have produced many other negative results although there would be no fighting till the last soldier,no wortless sacrifice of people who just wanted to live.If you ask me, the earlier the peace,the less death,the better.




While I do not dispute that killing Hitler was the morally right thing for them to do, the attempt came a little too late and with the wrong motives to be regarded with the apparent respect that Mr Cruise is affording it.

10 months before end of the war is enough of a timing.Enough of worthless deaths,enough of atrocities that we know took place until May `44.I believe the old German military movement never wanted to invade the way the nazis told them too.I believe the outcome of the Warsaw uprising might have been different.




Perhaps the rebellious crewmember recognised this and his breaking of wind was a contrary comment upon this IMHO somewhat hypocritical minutes silence.

I don`t care what was his motives.If he couldn`t hold off,he should go somewhere else,period.There are few things more disrespectful than disrespect for the dead moreover SHOWING that disrespect.
People may believe what they wanted to believe.Stauffenberg showed that Hitler did not have every German behind him,he and his men were the voice of those wanting to shut down the war.

We all may be wondering how it all would have turned out in the end.
We are however obliged to respect or at least STFU when a moment of silence if performed for those who died trying to do the right thing.

Waldo.Pepper
09-29-2007, 03:36 PM
If you were lying bleeding to death in the gutter

If Tom Cruise was the guy in the ditch bleeding to death, I'd help him. But I'd fart on him first.

Bewolf
09-29-2007, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by carguy_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
I would question the minutes silence for these so-called "anti-nazi heroes" in the first place.

Maybe not heroes, but people who gave their life for the right cause.Probably a close to a milion people would live throught the war if they ever succeeded..




These were Military officers who could now see which way the wind was blowing and it was only then that they decided to try and eliminate a leader that they had been quite happy to follow while they were rampaging victoriously across Europe from 1939 up to 1944 when this incident took place.

This attempt only came so they could try and sue for peace with Hitler out of the way.

If Hitler won Stalingrad I`m sure they wouldn`t try this.However the fact that they died trying deserves a moment of silence,don`t you think?Do you know what happened to the leader of this initiative?He was hung on a hook,imagine how it feels.I`m aware that if 3rd Reich had peace earlier then they would keep some lands,some benefits.The alternative of the outcome might have produced many other negative results although there would be no fighting till the last soldier,no wortless sacrifice of people who just wanted to live.If you ask me, the earlier the peace,the less death,the better.




While I do not dispute that killing Hitler was the morally right thing for them to do, the attempt came a little too late and with the wrong motives to be regarded with the apparent respect that Mr Cruise is affording it.

10 months before end of the war is enough of a timing.Enough of worthless deaths,enough of atrocities that we know took place until May `44.I believe the old German military movement never wanted to invade the way the nazis told them too.I believe the outcome of the Warsaw uprising might have been different.




Perhaps the rebellious crewmember recognised this and his breaking of wind was a contrary comment upon this IMHO somewhat hypocritical minutes silence.

I don`t care what was his motives.If he couldn`t hold off,he should go somewhere else,period.There are few things more disrespectful than disrespect for the dead moreover SHOWING that disrespect.
People may believe what they wanted to believe.Stauffenberg showed that Hitler did not have every German behind him,he and his men were the voice of those wanting to shut down the war.

We all may be wondering how it all would have turned out in the end.
We are however obliged to respect or at least STFU when a moment of silence if performed for those who died trying to do the right thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My honest kudos.

MB_Avro_UK
09-29-2007, 06:09 PM
Hi all,

The casting of TC was at fault. Why him?

Hugh Grant would have been perfect http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Best Regards & Mfg,
MB_Avro.

LEBillfish
09-29-2007, 07:27 PM
Well, either way you want to look at it....
.
.
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.
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.
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.
.
.

.
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.

that just stinks...

huggy87
09-29-2007, 08:36 PM
When I saw this headline I thought Tom Cruise had his fart culprit offed:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21051755/

"Man in Tom Cruise shakedown case found dead"

For them to call it a "shakedown" it must have been some growler, thought I!

heywooood
09-29-2007, 09:31 PM
yeah - I thought the same thing Huggy...


these days in Hollywood anything is possible

Bo_Nidle
10-01-2007, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Bewolf:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by carguy_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
I would question the minutes silence for these so-called "anti-nazi heroes" in the first place.

Maybe not heroes, but people who gave their life for the right cause.Probably a close to a milion people would live throught the war if they ever succeeded..




These were Military officers who could now see which way the wind was blowing and it was only then that they decided to try and eliminate a leader that they had been quite happy to follow while they were rampaging victoriously across Europe from 1939 up to 1944 when this incident took place.

This attempt only came so they could try and sue for peace with Hitler out of the way.

If Hitler won Stalingrad I`m sure they wouldn`t try this.However the fact that they died trying deserves a moment of silence,don`t you think?Do you know what happened to the leader of this initiative?He was hung on a hook,imagine how it feels.I`m aware that if 3rd Reich had peace earlier then they would keep some lands,some benefits.The alternative of the outcome might have produced many other negative results although there would be no fighting till the last soldier,no wortless sacrifice of people who just wanted to live.If you ask me, the earlier the peace,the less death,the better.




While I do not dispute that killing Hitler was the morally right thing for them to do, the attempt came a little too late and with the wrong motives to be regarded with the apparent respect that Mr Cruise is affording it.

10 months before end of the war is enough of a timing.Enough of worthless deaths,enough of atrocities that we know took place until May `44.I believe the old German military movement never wanted to invade the way the nazis told them too.I believe the outcome of the Warsaw uprising might have been different.




Perhaps the rebellious crewmember recognised this and his breaking of wind was a contrary comment upon this IMHO somewhat hypocritical minutes silence.

I don`t care what was his motives.If he couldn`t hold off,he should go somewhere else,period.There are few things more disrespectful than disrespect for the dead moreover SHOWING that disrespect.
People may believe what they wanted to believe.Stauffenberg showed that Hitler did not have every German behind him,he and his men were the voice of those wanting to shut down the war.

We all may be wondering how it all would have turned out in the end.
We are however obliged to respect or at least STFU when a moment of silence if performed for those who died trying to do the right thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My honest kudos. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Five years,1939 to 1944, of unprovoked and unspeakably savage aggression. Tens of millions dead in Europe and Russia. Then when it becomes clear that the noose is closing around Germany they decide the games up and THEN take action to try and stave off the imminent destruction of Germany that they can see on the horizon when the allies cross the Rhine.

I would have more respect if they had taken Der Fuhrer out at the beginning of the nightmare rather than at the start of the final act.

I have enormous respect for the individuals that died fighting for freedom. The opposite applies to individuals who attempt damage limitation against a regime that they blindly followed until the going got tough rather than making a stand from the beginning out of moral courage.

The line between the two appears to have become uncomfortably blurred the more time passes since WW2.

Friendly_flyer
10-01-2007, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
I quite disagree, feel free to read my two posts on the subject.

I agree with most about Mr, Cruise and his virtues as a person and his choice of "life philosophy", also, breaking a bit of wind is can happened to anyone (I'm guilty of a few things myself). Firing the guy is over the top too. However, if we for a moment assume the man did it on purpose, it would have been rather bad form, and I would have been cross too.

Apart from that I'd taken almost any the opportunity to break wind in Mr. Cruises general direction too.

-HH- Beebop
10-01-2007, 03:53 PM
Three pages on Tom Cruise and a fart?

Oleg, we need a patch release....PLEASE!

JZG_Thiem
10-01-2007, 04:32 PM
Bo_Nidle: what you fail to see is that quite a few of the conspirators opposed Adolf even before he attacked Poland, even more when they saw what happened at the start of Barbarossa. It was not easy for them to gather and get something running. The slightest mistake or misjudgement when talking to someone about this could lead to execution. You may want to blame them all for waging an unjust war, but you can blame only a few for being some sort of "opportunist" (at least thats how i understand you).

Thinking that they only "turned around when things were going bad for germany" is surely a gross oversimplification and folklore. Read up on Stauffenberg himself, he didnt want to kill Adolf because of germany being close to submisison, but because he got informed about atrocities.
Like most of his comrades he was a PRUSSIAN officer, educated in a particular way. Read also up on the mindset of prussian officers. Their education for sure told them that Adolfs was way over the top. Some ignored that - like Keitel or Jodl- some didnt, like Stauffenberg and lots of conspirators.

As far as i know, the first attempts (by military) to kill him were in 1942 or early 1943 (Adolf left a museum too early). Consider also that this kinda stuff needs some preparation. At those times it can hardly be argued that the war was already lost to germany, especially comparing to the situation of mid 1944 and the scale of the defeat as it was obvious.

Bewolf
10-02-2007, 01:52 AM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:

Five years,1939 to 1944, of unprovoked and unspeakably savage aggression. Tens of millions dead in Europe and Russia. Then when it becomes clear that the noose is closing around Germany they decide the games up and THEN take action to try and stave off the imminent destruction of Germany that they can see on the horizon when the allies cross the Rhine.

I would have more respect if they had taken Der Fuhrer out at the beginning of the nightmare rather than at the start of the final act.

I have enormous respect for the individuals that died fighting for freedom. The opposite applies to individuals who attempt damage limitation against a regime that they blindly followed until the going got tough rather than making a stand from the beginning out of moral courage.

The line between the two appears to have become uncomfortably blurred the more time passes since WW2.



Yeah, Hollywood strikes again.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~gduncan/assassination_attempts.html (http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Egduncan/assassination_attempts.html)

How I love those armchair moralists judging about everything without ever even attemtping to read up on the subject or living under conditions these men faced. Pathethic.

Bewolf
10-02-2007, 02:06 AM
double post

Bo_Nidle
10-02-2007, 01:12 PM
I have read up on aspects of this incident and have been aware of its existence for many years so while I in no way profess to be an expert on the subject I am not an ignoramus either.

I know that Von Stauffenberg was not a member of the Nazi party however he was initially committed to following Hitler arguing that the German soldier swore an oath of allegiance to the person of Hitler not to the German presidency.

His unit took part in the invasion of Poland and he expressed support for this act and the subsequent occupation of that country. He also voiced his support for the use of Polish slave labour for the benefit of Germany and his admiration for the efficiency of the Nazi war machine at this time.

It was not until around 1943 and the savage practices of Hitlers regime were coming to light that he took on the role of active anti-Nazi conspirator having already been approached once by anti-Nazi factions and turning them down.

So I stand by my original assertion that far from being oppressed reluctant subjects of the Hitler regime this man and the majority of the German people were loyally following an individual that they believed would progress Germany from its battered post WW1 past to the ruling power over the western world and Von Stauffenberg only took the action he did when it finally became obvious, even to him, that the entire endeavour was nothing short of criminal insanity and leading Germany into a catastrophe.

I regard the sacrifices these men made as being the least they could do considering the havoc wreaked upon civilisation by them.

And finally on this topic I would add this: To my knowledge Hitler, Himmler et al never personally took anyones life. The lives lost to this evil were taken by "normal, decent" German people carrying out their orders. While I in no way hold the subsequent generations of the German people in any way responsible for the actions of their predecessors, the act of applying "revionist" history must cease. It is a period of the most extreme shame in any nations history but it is nevertheless a fact and the facts should not be twisted to make them a little more palatable.

Kurfurst__
10-02-2007, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by rhinomonkey:
great story!

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0926tomcruise-CR.html

I hope Mr. Cruise did not sustain serious injurious in the accident! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Bewolf
10-02-2007, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Bo_Nidle:
I have read up on aspects of this incident and have been aware of its existence for many years so while I in no way profess to be an expert on the subject I am not an ignoramus either.

I know that Von Stauffenberg was not a member of the Nazi party however he was initially committed to following Hitler arguing that the German soldier swore an oath of allegiance to the person of Hitler not to the German presidency.

His unit took part in the invasion of Poland and he expressed support for this act and the subsequent occupation of that country. He also voiced his support for the use of Polish slave labour for the benefit of Germany and his admiration for the efficiency of the Nazi war machine at this time.

It was not until around 1943 and the savage practices of Hitlers regime were coming to light that he took on the role of active anti-Nazi conspirator having already been approached once by anti-Nazi factions and turning them down.

So I stand by my original assertion that far from being oppressed reluctant subjects of the Hitler regime this man and the majority of the German people were loyally following an individual that they believed would progress Germany from its battered post WW1 past to the ruling power over the western world and Von Stauffenberg only took the action he did when it finally became obvious, even to him, that the entire endeavour was nothing short of criminal insanity and leading Germany into a catastrophe.

I regard the sacrifices these men made as being the least they could do considering the havoc wreaked upon civilisation by them.

And finally on this topic I would add this: To my knowledge Hitler, Himmler et al never personally took anyones life. The lives lost to this evil were taken by "normal, decent" German people carrying out their orders. While I in no way hold the subsequent generations of the German people in any way responsible for the actions of their predecessors, the act of applying "revionist" history must cease. It is a period of the most extreme shame in any nations history but it is nevertheless a fact and the facts should not be twisted to make them a little more palatable.

Kay, I will point to a few flaws in your arguments.

First of all, you make the biggest mistake of all hobby historians..Applying modern western world standarts (in theory) to a completly different timeframe and region.
That is not apolagistic, this is fact. The prussian officers did not stand in a tradition of democracy and liberty, questioning their superiours orders. But, they did not stand in a tradition of extermination and senseless slaughter of civilians either. So exptecting them to be concious about these modern values is kinda out of touch. These people still lived within the framework of their own culture, which was not modern, but neither babaric. Now if you feel obliged to critizse this culture in itself, feel free too. There is a lot to be desigered there. There were even debates of it beeing the root of all the evil once. Another topic, though.

That does not take away from the fact that these people felt obliged to act, completly against their own code of honor and oathes and with good intentions. In 44 they could have just have sit out the war and lived. The end was forseeable.
Instead they risked, and lost their lives, for to safe Germany from complete destruction, but also out of fear for its reputation. I'd say that is usually described as "patriotic", and I am just assuming you are aware of the exact definition of this word. What you do not like is that they did not sacrtifice their lives out of pure compassion or respect for those beeing alive, not out of altruistic motives.

I frankly don't care out of which drive they "didn't" do it. The fact is, they acted in the first place. And they were not the first. And millions could have been saved. If those facts are not enough for you, the knights not shiney enough, but some theories about their motives, then I'd really advise you to stay away from such topics.

The rest of your topic strays into a completly different direction.

LEXX_Luthor
10-02-2007, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rhinomonkey:
great story!

http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0926tomcruise-CR.html

I hope Mr. Cruise did not sustain serious injurious in the accident! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It was probably a WW2 history buff "protesting" Tom Cruise films.

Or maybe Tom Cruise did it. I always avoided his films.

Gibbage1
10-02-2007, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:
Three pages on Tom Cruise and a fart?

Oleg, we need a patch release....PLEASE!

+1, and many many more.

djetz
10-02-2007, 04:01 PM
People change their minds. People can reform. A person can atone for past sins.

A person can believe one thing - especially if they're raised in a society that promotes that thing - and then, with greater knowledge and wisdom, end up realising they were wrong.

Plenty of Germans stuck with what they were told till the bitter end. Some became wiser, and some of those had the courage to realise there was a greater moral law than the oaths they'd sworn.

Staufenberg atoned. Yes, he fought for Nazi Germany, and then he died fighting against it. I think the man deserves respect because he had the guts to admit he'd been wrong. All too many people will never do that under any circumstances.

For a person who knows right from wrong from the outset, who has a working set of ethics, the choice is reasonably simple. For a person who comes to realise they were misled, or who develops ethics from experience, it's harder to do the right thing.

So while I admire the people who fought the Nazis from day one, I believe the people who came to understand they were on the wrong side deserve respect as well.