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View Full Version : Muzzle flash correct in brightness, but slow to fade



XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 04:48 PM
Lots has been written about the muzzle flash, particularly from cannon, most of it just insulting.

The other day I was playing back a track at 2x and 4x speed and noticed that the cannon flashes looked more realistic that way (I'm a soldier so have fired a large caliber weapon or two).

It dawned on me that the size and brightness of the flash is spot on, but that it hangs around a bit too long.

Could it possibly be sped up just a touch?

Give it a try and see if it doesn't work...

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 04:48 PM
Lots has been written about the muzzle flash, particularly from cannon, most of it just insulting.

The other day I was playing back a track at 2x and 4x speed and noticed that the cannon flashes looked more realistic that way (I'm a soldier so have fired a large caliber weapon or two).

It dawned on me that the size and brightness of the flash is spot on, but that it hangs around a bit too long.

Could it possibly be sped up just a touch?

Give it a try and see if it doesn't work...

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 06:14 PM
<span style="font-size:30px;">BUMP!</span>

Listen to the man, please! (Largest thing I ever fired was a 120 mm gun.)

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Message Edited on 11/13/0306:15PM by plumps_

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 06:25 PM
I don't remember much flash at all from the machine gun that I have fired - (GPMG and a long time ago so my memory is probably faulty).

Oleg has said before that he can't easily change the muzzle flash so maybe this could be a good solution?

Neat idea anyhow.

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She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 06:29 PM
I have experience in firing a .50 cal and 40MM guns on board a ship. During normal daylight I have never observed gunflash of an observable level...smoke yes but not a lot and when hand firing the .50 cal have only lost eye contact with the target due to recoil....
I have never fired these guns at night so I know little of flash at night.....except for the Arctic in June, or Antarctic in December.

"Nothing difficult is ever easy"

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 08:05 PM
Well, the photos I've seen of guns on WWII aircraft show the bright flashes as big as what we see in the sim - and usually when firing a .50 you're so focused on target that the really quick flash is unnoticeable.

Plus the noise and recoil seems to overwhelm all other sensations.

Since the flash itself is one of the early code items, changing it too much is very difficult (or at least from what I gathered on other threads on this topic).

It might not even be possible to speed up how long it remains. However, if you could make it 1/4th the duration that it is now it would be not only representative, but have the added bonus of a very cool nighttime appearance.

Again, to see this, take a P-39 and fire the cannon continuously while making a track. Now play it back at both 2x and 4x. If you've fired a .50 it will dawn on you that you've seen this before - but more subtle (50 cal is smaller than the cannon in the nose of the P-39).

Do the same in darkness and it's just as neat.

If it can't be done, oh well, guess I'll just keep enjoying the sim as much as I have since IL-2. What a rocking time, every time, and a bad day with the sim is better than the best day on the golf course!

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 08:33 PM
From what I have seen the muzzle flashes are right on as they are now for night fighting, but too bright or at least last too long for day fighting.

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 10:06 PM
In addition to firing the .50 cal and 40MM I have watched others fire the weapons....still no observable gun flash in daylight conditions. Overcome by the ambient light.
Even the P-38 with 4 .50 cal and 1 20MM in the nose did not have flash supressing cones unless they were doing night fighting. In daylight they did not need them even with the guns directly in front of the pilot.

This may not be possible to model in the sim and it only is a problem with aircraft carrying nose mounted guns...
The worse of course is the Me 262.....but I've never fired a 30MM.

"Nothing difficult is ever easy"

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 10:15 PM
To heck with the usefulness of the flash at night, during the day it's useless, looks stupid and flat out blinds the pilots flying planes with nose mounted guns. God help the VVS gang when the P-38 arrives.

Summary:

FB and it's over modeled muzzle flash, is like meeting a beautiful women for the first time, but when she smiles, you notice she's got a big clump of green something or other stuck in her teeth, and she's to dam stubborn to take it out.

You jump her bones anyway, but that teeth thing makes you want to gargle for a week!

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 10:43 PM
hmmm 7yr infantry here im sure iv fired 8000-10000 rds at least of m-2 hb and i sure as hell never saw that blast during the day .. at night thats different . but you cant no way tell me that thats the way a heavy mg looks .no way.....this is my only thing iv ever said bad about il-2 or fb..hell im near a oleg fanboy

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XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 11:17 PM
"Well, the photos I've seen of guns on WWII aircraft show the bright flashes as big as what we see in the sim - and usually when firing a .50 you're so focused on target that the really quick flash is unnoticeable."

Its not a matter of how th eeye focuses, its how fast the flash is in real life. Photography is TOTALLY different.. using a still photo as an example of how a flash should "look" is a bad idea if you understand how things work.

You would never perceive a flash that large in real life because your eye isn't quick enough..

So, it might actually be there, but its NOT what a human would see.. so I'd prefer they be toned down to more realistc HUMAN levels so I don't miss any of the awesome action while I'm getting hits on someone..

XyZspineZyX
11-13-2003, 11:34 PM
how about landing lights will at least they get fixed? Its easy just make them not light up during day.

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XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 12:52 AM
jtasker, I've seen photos too. Lot's of them. Stills and video. Never noticed anything like the flames in FB. Now if the idea of shortening the amount of time the flash is visible is sound and get's rid of the flash, then I'm all for it. But I don't think that'll do it.

What we're realy talking about here 6 to 8 foot long flames here. As for film and the human eye? Go with the human eye. We're flying not taking pictures.

Speaking of pictures.

http://home.alltel.net/dhasso/Pics/P51SM.gif


http://home.alltel.net/dhasso/Pics/P47SM.gif


And to repeat once again, the effect of the flames on an aircraft equiped with nose guns blinds the pilot and is absolutely horendous. Had this effect exisited in real aircraft, then designers, regardless of who's side they were on, would have stuck to strictly wing mounted weapons. If Oleg says he's seen these flames on the real thing then he must alot better eye sight then the rest of us, or he was sipping some reay nasty vodka.

As you know, I recently tried to revive the effort to get Oleg to fix this obvious blemish, but he refuse's to respond to it or change it. Perhaps he likes the effect. Why? I don't know. I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but the muzzel flashes, at least at their current size are pretty Mickey Mouse if you ask me. They ought to be reduced by 75 to 80 percent to make them a bit more digestable.

Finally, if you think I'm a muzzel flash whiner, wait until the P-38 is released, and all the allied flyers get a load of that. Then you'll see some whining.

S!

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 01:16 AM
yay1::
-- If Oleg says he's seen these flames on the real thing
-- then he must alot better eye sight then the rest of us,

That may be a possibility. Differences in humanoid eyesight are much larger than we expect.

Some people can see 30 stars in the Pleides star cluster on a dark night. The ancient Navies of the Med (don't even think about it) selected special people with perfect eyesight to see ships that nobody else aboard could see.

Perhaps Oleg is one of the few who can detect flash events happening in much shorter time intervals than most.

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 01:45 AM
So given that the muzzle flash can't be modified in size or intensity, as Mr. Maddox has hinted at, perhaps speeding them up will lessen the effect of what's in the sim.

Geez, y'all, rather than just whine, let's try to improve what we have.

No wonder this place has a reputation of being a snake pit.

Did anybody who's griping try what I suggest?

XyZspineZyX
11-14-2003, 02:50 AM
Speed it up. If possible.

Maybe 4X?

XyZspineZyX
11-16-2003, 12:09 PM
I'm with you Dart /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

If Oleg can't deal with modifying graphic then maybe duration is at least a possible answer? As I am no games developer I don't know how hard this would be.

Anything to stop this Arcrade BS though :

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