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View Full Version : What the hell did you guys do to the Bf-109K4?



XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:14 AM
My gosh fellas, i cant understand why this aircraft has changed to much. Its like flying a whole new airplane now. The speed is crapy. I cant turn with a 190. lol and everything seems to pass right by me like im some old lady going 45 on the freeway. What the hell is going on? Is this accurate?

P4-2.4Gig
1GigPC2100 DDR Ram
SoyoDragon Ulrtra Mobo
8X AGP Slot
GF-4Ti4600pny
20"Monitor
40GigHD
58xCDRW-Drive
DVDRom-Drive
SB-Live 5.1
DX-9.0
XP-PRO
So he tells me, "I ban the Me262 cause its turn rate is over modeled and it dosnt stall"... Then he takes off from his base in a Hurricane.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:14 AM
My gosh fellas, i cant understand why this aircraft has changed to much. Its like flying a whole new airplane now. The speed is crapy. I cant turn with a 190. lol and everything seems to pass right by me like im some old lady going 45 on the freeway. What the hell is going on? Is this accurate?

P4-2.4Gig
1GigPC2100 DDR Ram
SoyoDragon Ulrtra Mobo
8X AGP Slot
GF-4Ti4600pny
20"Monitor
40GigHD
58xCDRW-Drive
DVDRom-Drive
SB-Live 5.1
DX-9.0
XP-PRO
So he tells me, "I ban the Me262 cause its turn rate is over modeled and it dosnt stall"... Then he takes off from his base in a Hurricane.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:20 AM
Is this accurate?



No.

JG27_Arklight
"Taking out the garbage since release"

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:22 AM
Not accurate? According to who?

Please provide us with charts, tracks, pics, stats, etc, etc.

PLease spare us personal observations without facts supporting them.

http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:22 AM
Think they went a bit too far http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif they should neuter lag7 and yak3 too, at least make them stall and spin a bit and before anyone flames me wheres the excelent low speed flight characteristics the 109 had cos in FB they disapeared think the vvs A/C got em instead.


Message Edited on 08/14/0308:25AM by johno__UK

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:28 AM
johno__UK wrote:
- Think they went a bit too far /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif they should neuter
- lag7 and yak3 too, at least make them stall and spin
- a bit and before anyone flames me wheres the
- excelent low speed flight characteristics the 109
- had cos in FB they disapeared think the vvs A/C got
- em instead.


I repeat:
Please provide us with charts, tracks, pics, stats, etc, etc.

Spare us personal observations without facts supporting them.
Pretty please with sugga on top.

http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 09:29 AM
Vengeanze wrote:
- Not accurate? According to who?
-
- Please provide us with charts, tracks, pics, stats,
- etc, etc.
-
- PLease spare us personal observations without facts
- supporting them.
-
- http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg



Ok, start the game and go to the Objects menu and look at the speeds and such for the K4.





JG27_Arklight
"Taking out the garbage since release"

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:15 AM
the k is deadly, there is something severly wrong with the 190s tho, thier movement online is just crazy you can probally skywrite in chinese with the 190s now. Ven I demonstrated this for many im sure you seen it too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

the 190s are my favorite plane too look at my sig since day 1 and im being honest about it

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter



Message Edited on 08/14/0309:32AM by LeadSpitter_

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:30 AM
vengeanze, what is it "stapler"?



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:46 AM
well, what with its speed?

the object viewer indicate 580kph at sea level... Yes, it's correct in game...

you can't turn with it?

at what altitude, at what speed, what turning rate did you get?

personnally, i wasn't in time for the turn rate of the focke wulf A9 or D9, i did get only a complete turn in 29s for the first, and 25s for the second...

however, i was able to make my 22s complete turn with the K4, as indicated by the object viewer...

i think i must practice those sustained turns with the focke wulfs...

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:47 AM
He`ll get over it, like we did with I16,,,



"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:50 AM
A stapler is a h√¬§ftapparat. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Here's a pic of a 1968 Swingline. Unfortunately not red which happens to be my favorite colour.

http://www.virtualstapler.com/gallery/images/g_1968swingline.jpg


http://members.chello.se/ven/milton.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:57 AM
http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/front/my-stapler.jpg


<center> http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 11:21 AM
thnks /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

that sig is hilarious



<center>http://www.kurita.sk/PRIVATE/pictures/sig_il2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 11:23 AM
They fixed it.

kajr



http://63.76.89.105/IL2/images/IL2AirRacing.gif (http://63.76.89.105/IL2)

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 11:24 AM
Cappadocian_317 wrote:
- <img
- src="http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/fron
- t/my-stapler.jpg">
-
-
-
- <center> <img
- src="http://www.322squadron.com/banners/Giobanner.
- jpg"> </center>
-

We want a Stapler Sim from Oleg...please /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

++ 88.IAP_Manuc ++

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 11:55 AM
Me and a squad mate did some quick testing yesterday, we found that the K4 can only be out-climbed by the dora (all altitudes). The dora is also one of only two aircraft which can achieve a higher speed (sealevel), the other is the La-7.... they both do approx. 585km/h IAS. The K4 does 570km/h. As for turning rates, the K4 will out-turn any Fw190 (except at high speeds).

So from this we know that the K4 and G6/AS may be porked, but surely not by much. They also have an Mk108 cannon up their snout, which in my oppinion wraps up the case.



Also, because the flight model has been fixed (it is now possible to stall), winning a dogfight will not just depend on which aircraft you happen to be sitting in. Happy times are ahead of us!

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:13 PM
The 109 was supposed to be crap at high speeds and now it is.
The 190 was supposed to have light controls at high speeds and now it has(too much maybe?).
the 190 was supposed to be the German a/c the Allies feared the most and guess what, now they do /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ?
Most experienced pilots wouldn't find the pre-patch K-4 much of a challenge, it was that good.
After getting over the shock of the patch changes can you perhaps find a way to still get an advantage over the Russians?
If you think a K-4 was supposed to be able to beat a well flown Dora though I'll have to disagree with you.
If it's no longer the Uber a/c it was against the 190s I believe that to be correct.
Nobody likes to see his fav a/c toned down.
But maybe you'll have to exploit what's good in the bird now, like it's aces did.

<center>http://users.compulink.gr/ilusin@e-free.gr/bf109[2)1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 12:14 PM
the Thread topic is : " What the hell did you guys do to the Bf-109K4? "

it looks like a question to me , soo.......

A : " They fixed it "

if you dont like the answer ............. Too Bad

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 01:51 PM
CGReload wrote:
-
- What the hell did you guys do to the Bf-109K4?

kajr wrote:
-
- They fixed it.

- kajr


Eh heh heh... Superb answer.





Message Edited on 08/14/0302:13PM by AeroBob

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 02:07 PM
Fixed it like you fix a misbehaving dog? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The K4 was barking all the time, so we had him fixed.

AeroBob wrote:
- WUAF_Badsight wrote:
-- A : " They fixed it "
- Eh heh heh... Superb answer.

Zayets
08-14-2003, 02:14 PM
I,personally,think is a conspiracy. I think somebody who hates RBJ (he claims that he fly the K4 , being an ace) , toned down the K4. At this time I realy don't know if is just revenge or just for the fun of it. I will continue investigation and I will keep you guys posted.
FYI , I never flown K4 , nor I have a wish to fly it now. Just when I browsed through all planes I took it for a spin. Just not my type ...


Zayets out

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 02:34 PM
Zayets wrote:
- I,personally,think is a conspiracy. I think
- somebody who hates RBJ (he claims that he fly the
- K4 , being an ace) , toned down the K4. At this
- time I realy don't know if is just revenge or just
- for the fun of it. I will continue investigation and
- I will keep you guys posted.
-
- FYI , I never flown K4 , nor I have a wish to fly
- it now. Just when I browsed through all planes I
- took it for a spin. Just not my type ...
-
-
- Zayets out

If you discover the worldwide conspiracy of communism or some little green men from mars during your investigation..please let us know ... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

++ 88.IAP_Manuc ++

Zayets
08-14-2003, 02:42 PM
VVS-Manuc wrote:

- If you discover the worldwide conspiracy of
- communism or some little green men from mars during
- your investigation..please let us know

Stay tuned to this , as soon I will find info I will publicly release them. What a heck! Is a free world! Wait a minute! Last one saying that finished killed by the execution squad.
Anyway , I don't see RBJ coming here to praise his beloved toy , or to cry because was broken apart. Wait , I can see him coming ... err , nope , is not him.


Zayets out

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:20 PM
One thing that really annoys me in the bf-109, all makes, is the exploding oil can. Somehow every time I get even a 'slight' hit, I get oil all over my windshild. Even if the bf-109 did have a magical bullet 'attracting oil resoivore, wouldn't it splat in other directions on occasion?

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:31 PM
GreySaber14 wrote:
- One thing that really annoys me in the bf-109, all
- makes, is the exploding oil can. Somehow every time
- I get even a 'slight' hit, I get oil all over my
- windshild. Even if the bf-109 did have a magical
- bullet 'attracting oil resoivore, wouldn't it splat
- in other directions on occasion?

Yes, it's a bit of a problem.
But since the 109 has an enclosed canopy it doesn't mess up my make up.
Trouble is when I open the canopy for a smoke.
I was once smoking myself to cancer enjoying the flight and all and suddenly I heard loud bangs.
Next thing I knew I looked like an oil worker who had just struck (or perhaps had been struck) by oil.
Well, it turns out I was bounced by out of the sun by BIll Clinton who was happily advertising his 'smoking sucks' campaign and who had managed to hit my oil reservoir with an expertly placed 7.62mm shell.
Thankfully , my vitals were unheart by the Clinton attack, or by cancer for that mutter , and was able to just make it home/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<center>http://users.compulink.gr/ilusin@e-free.gr/bf109[2)1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:42 PM
Been flying the K-4 quite a bit online in the last day or so and I haven't noticed anything prohibitive about it. I had a very nice chase with a Yak-9 and an La-7 online across one of the bigger maps and I was keeping with...pulling turns, and gaining altitude. No problems.

All of the planes feel a little different than before and I've seen alot of guys having trouble even getting them off the ground for whatever reason (or dogfighting without stalling into the ground). So I think everyone just needs to lighten up on the controls abit and find the limits of the aircraft as they are presented now.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 03:47 PM
If you where really flying the K4 and using it in the best method you would feel the change in 1.1B, and i dont have tracks, pics, charts, i know that i flew the 109 for a LONG time and was pretty good in it, now it FEELS bad, and i am not the only one feeling that!

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:20 PM
I do not know what you are smoking Christos but I would sure like having some of it ! LOL !!!


Christos_swc wrote:
- Yes, it's a bit of a problem.
- But since the 109 has an enclosed canopy it doesn't
- mess up my make up.
- Trouble is when I open the canopy for a smoke.
- I was once smoking myself to cancer enjoying the
- flight and all and suddenly I heard loud bangs.
- Next thing I knew I looked like an oil worker who
- had just struck (or perhaps had been struck) by oil.
- Well, it turns out I was bounced by out of the sun
- by BIll Clinton who was happily advertising his
- 'smoking sucks' campaign and who had managed to hit
- my oil reservoir with an expertly placed 7.62mm
- shell.
- Thankfully , my vitals were unheart by the Clinton
- attack, or by cancer for that mutter , and was able
- to just make it home

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:41 PM
I agree, and if anyone thinks it is right then some vvs planes eg L7 need bringing into line too...

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:42 PM
Manos1 wrote:
- I do not know what you are smoking Christos but I
- would sure like having some of it ! LOL !!!

Actually, after smoking for some 9 years I quit the thing on June 4.
Haven't touched it since.
This experience was back when Clinton was president and I was a fanatic smoker.
I'm into other things now/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

PS1:I'm a pharmacist so what I'm smoking is a complex formula that you can't have/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif
PS2:R' you Greek too?
PS3:US people got their corrected P-47 roll rate yet or what?

<center>http://users.compulink.gr/ilusin@e-free.gr/bf109[2)1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:48 PM
I support Vengenze....


Pretty please with sugar on top....now clean the....


You can't please all the people all the time.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:49 PM
You guys still turnfighting VVS on the deck? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Take them up and make them suffer. If they wont go there...annoy the living crap ouf of them..they will come up eventualy...then make them suffer. BTW spiral climb still work like magic...and maybe Dora will outclimb K4 on the steep climb...she can`t handle a spiral climb at all. So there...nothing can keep up with K4 on vertical IMO. Except jets of course.
Needless to say that many things are depending on settings that you fly with. On FR or close to it servers all planes are almost equal...it`s a matter of who sees who first. And with new MK108 your enemies better pray that they will be the first ones to notice your attack from above /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Just my 02c


Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:52 PM
Christos_swc wrote:
- Thankfully , my vitals were unheart by the Clinton
- attack, or by cancer for that mutter , and was able
- to just make it home<img


I don't believe cancer damage is properly modled in this patch. -jim-

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:56 PM
Vengeanze wrote:
- Not accurate? According to who?
-
- Please provide us with charts, tracks, pics, stats,
- etc, etc.
-
- PLease spare us personal observations without facts
- supporting them.
-

Well
Let me think....
According to Oleg Madox in the Game IL2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles Ver 1.0!
He said that in the game FM, now it is completly different according to Oleg Madox in the Game IL2 Sturmovik Forgotten Battles Ver 1.1b!

So if have two differents FM for one single plane how can i believe what version is right or worng, cause u said that???
or u want it?

LOL

I preffer wait to see those things revised before believe in any angry Kid. The same way he gave an answer to FW190 Whinners why cannot he answer thi?

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 10:57 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
On FR or close to it
- servers all planes are almost equal...it`s a matter
- of who sees who first. And with new MK108 your
- enemies better pray that they will be the first ones
- to notice your attack from above

Yep, on FR you need 30 mm.
Even a G-6 with 30mms will do.

<center>http://users.compulink.gr/ilusin@e-free.gr/bf109[2)1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 11:01 PM
Do you want a faster, better turn, roll, dive rate plane or a more realistic flight model?

My P-40 seems to roll a little slower now, if thats more accurate to the real thing then so much the better.



btw thanks for the patch guys, looking forward to the expansion pack.


Hoki

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 11:40 PM
You'll adjust to the best sim ever created.

All Flight models now are accurate. to within limits.


I't actually feels like flying instead of the arcadish feel

Of most other sims.

If you want to turn tighter you need to use flaps and throttle. and in some planes pitch control.

I'm and 80 WWII vetern and i flew the p47 and It feel just as i remember. also flew the a 109K that was shot down and refurbished and it all seem pretty close to what i remember


Although Altimerz has set in and I'm delusional All is ok with the world Of FB.

XyZspineZyX
08-14-2003, 11:43 PM
griego wrote:
- You'll adjust to the best sim ever created.
-
- All Flight models now are accurate. to within
- limits.
-
-
-
- I't actually feels like flying instead of the
- arcadish feel
-
-
-
- Of most other sims.
-
-
- If you want to turn tighter you need to use flaps
- and throttle. and in some planes pitch control.
-
-
- I'm and 80 WWII vetern and i flew the p47 and It
- feel just as i remember. also flew the a 109K that
- was shot down and refurbished and it all seem pretty
- close to what i remember
-
-
-
- All though Altimerz has set in and I'm delusional All
- is ok with the world Of FB.
-
-
-
All though this may seem to be sarcasm . The new patch has really grown on me and I really like it.

The only thing As far as planes go the me262 feels heavier than the jug. on my FF stick. and that as we know shouldn't be right.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 12:09 AM
Skyhawk44 wrote:
- If you where really flying the K4 and using it in
- the best method you would feel the change in 1.1B,
- and i dont have tracks, pics, charts, i know that i
- flew the 109 for a LONG time and was pretty good in
- it, now it FEELS bad, and i am not the only one
- feeling that!

You think it's a problem because it was better in 1.0? If you're going to complain about flight models, cite the differences between the game and real life figures - don't whinge just because it's changed.


johno__UK wrote:
- I agree, and if anyone thinks it is right then some
- vvs planes eg L7 need bringing into line too...

Again - give us some facts, quotes, figures about the real life aircraft and prove that the VVS planes need 'bringing into line'. Just because they don't fly how you want them to, doesn't mean they aren't right.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 12:17 AM
MUahahhahaha no more freaking rookie k4

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 01:08 AM
muhahhaha

"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

MicroSoft Most Wanted
http://www.angelfire.com/empire/the-aztek-eagles/oleg.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 04:35 AM
Bnej_03 wrote:
- Fixed it like you fix a misbehaving dog? -
- The K4 was barking all the time, so we had him
- fixed.



NOW THAT'S FUNNY......
We just had our dog fixed.... he ain't so ummmm.... misbehaved now.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 05:22 AM
Hey, if you bothered to read all the posts before the patch, you'd notice that they put out clear evidence that the 109K4 was way too fast.

The 190 Dora was a lot faster than the K4 in reality and so was the La-7.

So get used to it.

The K4 still climbs better than anything out there, so use that and learn to fly it for its positives. Up over 10,000 ft not too much can deal with it either.

It also still outturns the 190s at slow speeds.

XyZspineZyX
08-15-2003, 07:59 AM
JimboJake wrote:

-
- The 190 Dora was a lot faster than the K4 in reality
- and so was the La-7.
-
-

Here are some numbers for the Dora

Horizontalgeschwindigkeiten
Fw190D-9 with Jumo 213A-1

These numbers are taken from a chart produced by Focke-Wulf Flugzeugbau G.M.B.H dated March 11, 1945 Gewicht - 4,270 kg Flaecheninhalt - 18.3 m2 Bewaffnung - 2 x MG131 und 2 x MG 151 mit ETC 504 For speeds without the ETC 501 ordanace rack add 8 km/h (5 mph) below and 12 km/h (7.5 mph) above critical engine (6.5km). Since the ETC 504 had a slightly better drag coefficient I would estimate speed penalty of about 6km/h (3.7mph)to 10km/h(6.2mph).


0.0km

568kph - Start - u Notleistung (B4) -- Take off/Emergency

615kph - Sonder - Notleistung (C3) /Special Emergency

640kph - Sonder - Notleistung mit A Lader als Bodenmotor (Special Emergency with Compressor as Base-Engine)

606kph - Sonder - Notleistung (B4) mit Laderdruckerhoehung mit MW50 u. 1.8ata.

549kph - Steig - u Kampfleistung (B4) -- Combat/Climb


3.1km

627kph - as noted in the above table

663

691kph

654kph

609kph


7.0km

674kph - as noted in the above table

685kph

672kph

675kph

662kph

If you want speeds for other altitudes

http://jagdhund.homestead.com/files/DoraData/horizontalgeschwindigkeiten.htm

Where is Issy or Huckie with simular data for the K-4 for comparison?

------

To who ever said that the Oleg proved his modelling is correct, an Inuit could sell you a freezer at the North Pole./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif His proof was nothing but a cluge job that did not prove anything.

http://www.stenbergaa.com/stenberg/crandall-stormclouds2.jpg


Message Edited on 08/15/0303:05AM by MiloMorai