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BigKahuna_GS
08-09-2005, 01:39 AM
S!

The Lone Eagle was truely an amazing pilot. Had Lindberg not so vehemently opposed Americas's involvement in WW2, Lucky Lindy could have been a very high scoring Ace. As it was Lindy unofficialy shot down enough enemy aircraft while flying in the Pacific to be an ace while flying with the Marines in Corsairs and P38's with the USAAF.

This is how Lindberg streched the legs on the P38 in the PTO, almost the exact opposite of the training new P38 pilots recieved in the ETO.

Interesting read:

http://www.475thfghf.org/Lindbergh.htm


The second and critical passage made by the group concerned fuel consumption. With additional fuel cells in the J model P-38, Satan's Angels had been making six and one-half and seven-hour flights. On I July Lindbergh flew a third mission with the group, an armed reconnaissance to enemy strips at Nabire, Sagan One and Two, Otawiri, and Ransiki, all on the western shore of Geelvink Bay. Already Lindbergh's technical eye noticed something. After six and one-half hours flying time, he landed with 210 gallons of fuel remaining in his Lightning's tanks.

Two missions later, on 3 July, the group covered sixteen heavies on a strike against Jefman Island. Lindbergh led Hades Squadron's White Flight as they wove back and forth above the lumbering B-25s. After the attack the Lightning's went barge hunting.

First one, then two pilots reported dwindling fuel and broke off for home. MacDonald ordered the squadron back but because Lindbergh had nursed his fuel, he asked for and received permission to continue the hunt with his wingman. After a few more strafing runs, Lindbergh noticed the other Lightning circling overhead. Nervously the pilot told Lindbergh that he had only 175 gallons of fuel left. The civilian told him to reduce engine R.P.M.'s, lean out his fuel mixture, and throttle back. When they landed, the 431st driver had seventy gallons left, Lindbergh had 260. They had started the mission with equal amounts of gas.

Lindbergh talked with MacDonald. The colonel then asked the group's pilots to assemble at the recreation hall that evening. The hall was that in name only, packed dirt floors staring up at a palm thatched roof, one ping pong table and some decks of cards completing the decor. Under the glare of unshaded bulbs, MacDonald got down to business. "Mr. Lindbergh" wanted to explain how to gain more range from the P-38s. In a pleasant manner Lindbergh explained cruise control techniques he had worked out for the Lightning's: reduce the standard 2,200 rpm to 1,600, set fuel mixtures to "auto-lean," and slightly increase manifold pressures. This, Lindbergh predicted, would stretch the Lightning's radius by 400 hundred miles, a nine-hour flight. When he concluded his talk half an hour later, the room was silent.
The men mulled over several thoughts in the wake of their guest's presentation.

The notion of a nine-hour flight literally did not sit well with them, "bum-busters" thought some. Seven hours in a cramped Lightning cockpit, sitting on a parachute, an emergency raft, and an oar was bad, nine hours was inconceivable. They were right. Later, on 14 October 1944, a 432nd pilot celebrated his twenty-fourth birthday with an eight-hour escort to Balikpapan, Borneo. On touching down, he was so cramped his crew chief had to climb up and help him get out of the cockpit.

The group‚‚ā¨ôs chief concern surfaced quickly, that such procedures would foul sparkplugs and scorch cylinders. Lindbergh methodically gave the answer. The Lightning's technical manual provided all the figures necessary to prove his point; they had been there all along. Nonetheless the 475th remained skeptical. A single factor scotched their reticence.

During their brief encounter, MacDonald had come to respect Lindbergh. Both men pushed hard and had achieved. Both were perfectionists never leaving things half done. And both had inquisitive minds. John Loisel, commanding officer the 432nd, remembered the two men talking for long periods over a multitude of topics beyond aviation. If, as MacDonald had informed his pilots, better aircraft performance meant a shorter war, then increasing the Lightning's range was worth investigating. Lindbergh provided the idea, but it was MacDonald's endorsement, backed by the enormous respect accorded him by the group, that saw the experiment to fruition. The next day, the Fourth of July, Lindbergh accompanied the 433rd on a six-hour, forty-minute flight led by Captain "Parky" Parkansky. Upon landing, the lowest fuel level recorded was 160 gallons. In his journal entry Lindbergh felt ". . . that the talk last night was worthwhile. " The 475th had lengthened its stride.

___

BigKahuna_GS
08-09-2005, 01:39 AM
S!

The Lone Eagle was truely an amazing pilot. Had Lindberg not so vehemently opposed Americas's involvement in WW2, Lucky Lindy could have been a very high scoring Ace. As it was Lindy unofficialy shot down enough enemy aircraft while flying in the Pacific to be an ace while flying with the Marines in Corsairs and P38's with the USAAF.

This is how Lindberg streched the legs on the P38 in the PTO, almost the exact opposite of the training new P38 pilots recieved in the ETO.

Interesting read:

http://www.475thfghf.org/Lindbergh.htm


The second and critical passage made by the group concerned fuel consumption. With additional fuel cells in the J model P-38, Satan's Angels had been making six and one-half and seven-hour flights. On I July Lindbergh flew a third mission with the group, an armed reconnaissance to enemy strips at Nabire, Sagan One and Two, Otawiri, and Ransiki, all on the western shore of Geelvink Bay. Already Lindbergh's technical eye noticed something. After six and one-half hours flying time, he landed with 210 gallons of fuel remaining in his Lightning's tanks.

Two missions later, on 3 July, the group covered sixteen heavies on a strike against Jefman Island. Lindbergh led Hades Squadron's White Flight as they wove back and forth above the lumbering B-25s. After the attack the Lightning's went barge hunting.

First one, then two pilots reported dwindling fuel and broke off for home. MacDonald ordered the squadron back but because Lindbergh had nursed his fuel, he asked for and received permission to continue the hunt with his wingman. After a few more strafing runs, Lindbergh noticed the other Lightning circling overhead. Nervously the pilot told Lindbergh that he had only 175 gallons of fuel left. The civilian told him to reduce engine R.P.M.'s, lean out his fuel mixture, and throttle back. When they landed, the 431st driver had seventy gallons left, Lindbergh had 260. They had started the mission with equal amounts of gas.

Lindbergh talked with MacDonald. The colonel then asked the group's pilots to assemble at the recreation hall that evening. The hall was that in name only, packed dirt floors staring up at a palm thatched roof, one ping pong table and some decks of cards completing the decor. Under the glare of unshaded bulbs, MacDonald got down to business. "Mr. Lindbergh" wanted to explain how to gain more range from the P-38s. In a pleasant manner Lindbergh explained cruise control techniques he had worked out for the Lightning's: reduce the standard 2,200 rpm to 1,600, set fuel mixtures to "auto-lean," and slightly increase manifold pressures. This, Lindbergh predicted, would stretch the Lightning's radius by 400 hundred miles, a nine-hour flight. When he concluded his talk half an hour later, the room was silent.
The men mulled over several thoughts in the wake of their guest's presentation.

The notion of a nine-hour flight literally did not sit well with them, "bum-busters" thought some. Seven hours in a cramped Lightning cockpit, sitting on a parachute, an emergency raft, and an oar was bad, nine hours was inconceivable. They were right. Later, on 14 October 1944, a 432nd pilot celebrated his twenty-fourth birthday with an eight-hour escort to Balikpapan, Borneo. On touching down, he was so cramped his crew chief had to climb up and help him get out of the cockpit.

The group‚‚ā¨ôs chief concern surfaced quickly, that such procedures would foul sparkplugs and scorch cylinders. Lindbergh methodically gave the answer. The Lightning's technical manual provided all the figures necessary to prove his point; they had been there all along. Nonetheless the 475th remained skeptical. A single factor scotched their reticence.

During their brief encounter, MacDonald had come to respect Lindbergh. Both men pushed hard and had achieved. Both were perfectionists never leaving things half done. And both had inquisitive minds. John Loisel, commanding officer the 432nd, remembered the two men talking for long periods over a multitude of topics beyond aviation. If, as MacDonald had informed his pilots, better aircraft performance meant a shorter war, then increasing the Lightning's range was worth investigating. Lindbergh provided the idea, but it was MacDonald's endorsement, backed by the enormous respect accorded him by the group, that saw the experiment to fruition. The next day, the Fourth of July, Lindbergh accompanied the 433rd on a six-hour, forty-minute flight led by Captain "Parky" Parkansky. Upon landing, the lowest fuel level recorded was 160 gallons. In his journal entry Lindbergh felt ". . . that the talk last night was worthwhile. " The 475th had lengthened its stride.

___

F19_Ob
08-09-2005, 02:31 AM
thanks...very interesting read. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

BigKahuna_GS
08-09-2005, 12:17 PM
S!

http://brooksart.com/Lindysecret.jpg
Lindbergh's Secret
Charles Lindbergh flying an un-authorized combat mission with the 475th. FG.

http://images7.fotki.com/v118/photos/1/133612/1448590/Emerau-vi.jpg
Charles Lindbergh (2nd from left) on Emirau Island May 1944

http://images7.fotki.com/v117/photos/1/133612/1448590/dippywinged-vi.jpg

http://www.web-birds.com/5th/475/plane-3.jpg

http://www.charleslindbergh.com/images/cl7.jpg
Thomas McGuiree and Charles A. Lindbergh

http://www.charleslindbergh.com/images2/DEN-03_large.jpg


--

PBNA-Boosher
08-09-2005, 12:34 PM
If we could only lean mixture in game, like it would help though, the maps aren't large enough for it to matter.

Low_Flyer_MkII
08-09-2005, 04:58 PM
Great read - gotta bump this one.

Atomic_Marten
08-09-2005, 05:12 PM
I was reading some stories on how McGuire was making jokes out of Lindberg... but Lindberg did not remain indebted. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

BTW wasn't the Lindberg the only civilian in ww2 that has shot down enemy aircraft (IIRC Ki-46)?

Nice read Kahuna thanks.

LStarosta
08-09-2005, 05:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PBNA-Boosher:
If we could only lean mixture in game, like it would help though, the maps aren't large enough for it to matter. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, bummer. Other things need leaning though.

Slickun
08-09-2005, 05:56 PM
Hey, good stuff ,Kahuna.

Did not know about his Corsair experiences. Where to find out?

McGuire was, apparently, a jerk. Oh well. A certain amount of cockiness is almost required in a good fighter pilot.

MEGILE
08-09-2005, 05:57 PM
Most interesting.

SkyChimp
08-09-2005, 06:00 PM
My grandfather was in the US Army stationed in the Panama Canal Zone in January 1928 when Lindberg arrived on his Latin and South American Goodwill Tour. My grandfather got to follow him around and snapped many photos. Whe he died, I inherited the collection. Here are just two of them:

http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/lindy1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/lindy4.jpg

wayno7777
08-10-2005, 12:21 AM
Sweet pics, SkyChimp! Wish I could come over to the house to see the rest....

Bumpage...

Slickun
08-10-2005, 07:59 AM
Great, great photos, SC!

I graduated HS from the Canal Zone! Wonder where Lindy flew into. Was Howard AFB even around back then, I wonder.

jensenpark
08-10-2005, 08:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SkyChimp:
My grandfather was in the US Army stationed in the Panama Canal Zone in January 1928 when Lindberg arrived on his Latin and South American Goodwill Tour. My grandfather got to follow him around and snapped many photos. Whe he died, I inherited the collection. Here are just two of them:

http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/lindy1.jpg
http://members.cox.net/us.fighters/lindy4.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice Chimp...can you put up some more?

Thanks!

BigKahuna_GS
08-10-2005, 11:03 AM
S!

Terrific photos Chimp !
Please post more if you have them.

My dad graduated from Penscola in 38'. Boyington was still a flight instructor there at the time. My dad would later have an opportunity to fly with the Blacksheep in the Solomons but had turned it down. He had seen Boyington off base in Pensacola on several occasions liquered up and was concerened about Boyington's drinking, leadership style and combat effectiveness. Boyington proved to be a great combat leader and pilot, but he never was quite able to shake his drinking problems. I think my dad regretted his decision not to fly with the 214, but would not comment about it much.

Back to Panama, my dad passed thru the Panama Canal on one of the early aircraft carriers. While in Panama, most of the pilots explored the area taking it all in. My dad said he had the best beer and cigars while in Panama.

My dad just took his last flight-he was 91y/o. His wits were aharp to the end but his hearing was gone. He was a great guy and I'll miss him alot. I have 30 years of USMC photos to go thru. I am the last of 5 kids he had (late 40's).



http://www.475thfghf.org/Aces/Aces.htm



We dedicate this page of our website to the "Aces" of the 475th Fighter group. These are the special men who achieved the status of fighter ace by personally destroying five or more enemy aircraft in air to air combat. The stakes in the game they entered were high, and many of the aces listed here themselves became victims. Some were killed in action, some were fortunate enough to have survived, to return and fight another day. A listing of these gallant warriors follows.
Not listed here are those who may not have become aces but whose contribution to this unit's record of 547 air to air combat victories should not be ignored. Also, all pilots flew the very dangerous missions involving dive-bombing, low level skip-bombing and strafing. They destroyed innumerable aircraft on the ground, sunk watercraft, and performed the important role of fighter escort for bomber and transport aircraft. Bomber crews loved to look up and see twin tailed P-38s providing that protective shield against intercepting enemy fighters. It must be realized that these flyers would not have been so successful without the superb support of the ground personnel working under the most deplorable conditions. The achievements of these Non-Commissioned Officers and enlisted men were held in awe by the pilots. From the aircraft crew chiefs to the other personnel working in armament, hydraulics, communications and supply, they managed to keep the P-38 a finely tuned, lean, mean, fighting machine from engine performance to gun bore-sighting. So to all personnel of the 475th Fighter Group, America salutes you for your sacrifices, heroism and dedication in defending these United States of America during this most trying time in our history.


To see a short biography of each ace, click his name.

Name Score
Allen, David W 8
Brown, Harry W 7
Champlin, Frederick F 9
Condon, Henry L II 5
Czarnecki, Edward J 6
Dahl, Perry J "PJ" 9
Dean, Zach W 7
Elliot, Vincent T 7
Fisk, Jack A 7
Forster, Joseph M 9
Gresham, Billy M 6
Harris, Frederick A 8
Hart, Kenneth F 8
Ince, James C 6
Jett, Verl E 7
Kirby, Marion F 5
Lent, Francis J "Fran" 11
Lewis, Warren R 7
Loisel, John S 11
Lucas, Paul W 6
Lutton, Lowell 5
MacDonald, Charles H 27
Mankin, Jack C 5
McGuire, Thomas B Jr 38
McKeon, Joseph T 6
Monk, Franklin H 5
Morriss, Paul V 5
Nichols, Franklin A 5
Pietz, John Jr "Rabbit" 6
Purdy, John E "Jack" 7
Reves, Horace B "Bo" 6
Roberts, Danny T 14
Smith, John C 6
Smith, Meryl M 9
Summer, Elliot 10
Tilley, John A 5
Wenige, Arthur E 6
Wire, Calvin C "Cal" 7








___

p1ngu666
08-10-2005, 11:33 AM
how much fuel did those p38s carry anyways?

BigKahuna_GS
08-10-2005, 12:28 PM
S!


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">pling--how much fuel did those p38s carry anyways? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The ducting for the intercoolers was removed from the leading edge of the wing and relocated under the prop in the chin scoop. This gave the P38J/L extra wing tanks and duration for 11 1/2 to 12 hour missions or about 2500-3000 miles for the P38L. An internal fuel capacity of 410 gallons could be increased to 1,010 gallons with two external drop tanks.

The recon version had a duration of 14 1/2hrs and 3,750 miles.

On a "ridicules/funny" note there have been some 190/109 fans trying to post that they had the same combat radious as the big 3 USAAF fighters P38,P47,P51.


__

LStarosta
08-10-2005, 12:34 PM
Where's the pic where old Charlie gets a Nazi medal?

SkyChimp
08-10-2005, 08:38 PM
Here's a few more that I happen to have scanned:

http://www.allaboutwarfare.com/files/uploads20/1100982158zphht.jpg

http://www.allaboutwarfare.com/files/uploads20/11009821628naht.jpg

http://www.allaboutwarfare.com/files/uploads20/1100982168cpwet.jpg
"X Spike" in the upper right shows the location of my grandfather's brother, who name was Spike http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Spike took these from his vantage point:
http://www.allaboutwarfare.com/files/uploads20/1100982213zj0s.jpg

I've got quite a few more, and several good shots of the Spirit of St. Louis. I'm not posting those as I may sell the rights to use them to an author.

p1ngu666
08-10-2005, 09:04 PM
****, i wouldnt wanna fly for 14 hours http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
where did the extra fuel in teh recon version go? thought the cameras went in the nose, replacing the guns..

and kahuna, im sure u know its only teh 109 with teh longer range than the big 3 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
revised history tells us this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

on teh serious side, u can see the downside of extra fuel/its storage. the american planes tended tobe bigger and heavier, mostly effecting ROC and turn. they where ofcourse still potent.

chimp those pics dont load for me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif