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general_kalle
03-15-2010, 06:44 AM
http://englishrussia.com/?p=11...ia.com/?p=11522]look (http://englishrussia.com/?p=11522%5BURL=http://englishrussia.com/?p=11522%5Dlook) at this beast[/URL]

would love to see this thing aktually fly

TinyTim
03-15-2010, 07:28 AM
It did "fly".

http://orbitalvector.com/Aquatic/Surface%20Effect%20Watercraft/lun%20ekranoplan.jpg

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/aerodynamics/ground-effect/km01.jpg

They even tested firing missiles during flight. Imagine a salvo of 6 SS-N-22 Sunburns fired from a 550kph speeding "ship".

http://www.airforce.ru/en/ekranoplanes/lun.jpg

Metatron_123
03-15-2010, 08:28 AM
Yep that is one of my favourites. Be aware that you have posted photos of two different designs. The sleeker one is the 'famed' Caspian Sea monster. What a great vision for sea travel, damn, we are too western, if we weren't, every other teenager would have posters of these monsters in his room...

JtD
03-15-2010, 09:38 AM
I saw a couple of documentations of this thing on TV. Just great machines, love them!

yuuppers
03-15-2010, 09:41 AM
Lots of photos,
http://igor113.livejournal.com/51213.html

DuxCorvan
03-15-2010, 09:50 AM
Ekranoplans. I love the concept.

Choctaw111
03-15-2010, 02:20 PM
The Caspian Sea Monster was quite an achievement.
I had read quite a bit about this thing over the years.

Choctaw111
03-15-2010, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by yuuppers:
Lots of photos,
http://igor113.livejournal.com/51213.html

Awesome photos http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
I haven't seen this thing so close up before.

Odirroh
03-15-2010, 03:38 PM
Sorry, if already known...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUTWWsh6iGA

Odirroh

JtD
03-15-2010, 03:44 PM
What's sad to see is how it is left to rust outside. But then if you look at the surroundings, it is quite understandable.

PanzerAce
03-15-2010, 07:48 PM
There are also smaller ekranoplan designs currently operating as island ferries in Alaska IIRC. The problem with them is that they aren't nearly as well understood as boats or planes, so there is more trial and error needed. Also, last I checked they weren't classified as either aircraft (since they can't actually fly out of ground effect, or atleast "pure" WIGs can't), but they also aren't boats.

Ba5tard5word
03-15-2010, 08:14 PM
You can see them in Google Maps satellite maps.

Go to Google Maps and put either of these in the search bar:

4252?54?N, 4739?24?E

or

55.851676,37.456178

DKoor
03-15-2010, 08:23 PM
Wow. What a waste.

horseback
03-15-2010, 08:30 PM
The US ought to build a few for use on the Great Lakes, to protect us from Canada's Health Plan.

cheers

horseback

Treetop64
03-16-2010, 05:51 PM
Would love to see that restored to a safe operating condition. Can't imagine how hugely expensive that would be, though...

Phil_C
03-20-2010, 09:30 AM
I had just been reading on avweek, and a few other sites that there are are a few new ideas for the concept... one being long range passenger transport..


i always thought it was flippin cool looking machine.

Monty_Thrud
03-20-2010, 11:00 AM
When i win the Lottery, i'm having one of these to live on...luxury Yacht...PFFFT!...MOVE OVER I'M COMIN THROUGH!

Love 'em.

mortoma
03-23-2010, 06:47 PM
I'm not impressed with it at all. So what, it's big! That's about all it is. Does not appear it was capable of getting out of ground ( water ) effect. Show me a video of it flying at altitude and I'll believe it was something special. But even then, there's nothing technologically marvelous about it, even if it could fly at altitude.

TheGrunch
03-23-2010, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
I'm not impressed with it at all. So what, it's big! That's about all it is. Does not appear it was capable of getting out of ground ( water ) effect.
Erm...isn't that why it's called a ground-effect vehicle? It's meant to be used like a really fast boat.

Ba5tard5word
03-23-2010, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by mortoma:
I'm not impressed with it at all. So what, it's big! That's about all it is. Does not appear it was capable of getting out of ground ( water ) effect. Show me a video of it flying at altitude and I'll believe it was something special. But even then, there's nothing technologically marvelous about it, even if it could fly at altitude.

Puh-leeze, you just don't like it because it's Communist! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

AndyJWest
03-23-2010, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
I'm not impressed with it at all. So what, it's big! That's about all it is. Does not appear it was capable of getting out of ground ( water ) effect. Show me a video of it flying at altitude and I'll believe it was something special. But even then, there's nothing technologically marvelous about it, even if it could fly at altitude.

Puh-leeze, you just don't like it because it's Communist! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ask him who first put a man into space...

(and for the record, being the awkward b*****r I am, I don't accept that what went on in the Soviet Union was 'communism'. That is way off topic, however)

Wildnoob
03-23-2010, 11:31 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:

Puh-leeze, you just don't like it because it's Communist! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

na85
03-24-2010, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by mortoma:
I'm not impressed with it at all. So what, it's big! That's about all it is. Does not appear it was capable of getting out of ground ( water ) effect. Show me a video of it flying at altitude and I'll believe it was something special. But even then, there's nothing technologically marvelous about it, even if it could fly at altitude.

Um it's called a ground-effect vehicle for a reason.

VXB77016
03-24-2010, 08:15 AM
I've always wondered what the turning performance of a GEV is like. I can't imagine it being especially nimble (even by ship standards). I wonder how many ship lengths it requires to turn through 180 degrees while at speed?

JtD
03-24-2010, 12:23 PM
Hehe, nice question. Never thought of that. Monty_Thruds "MOVE OVER I'M COMIN THROUGH!" apparently has more than one meaning. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

AndyJWest
03-24-2010, 12:42 PM
I should think the high-speed turning characteristics of these beasts was pretty grim. On the other hand, I don't think they were designed for dogfighting! If they are intended for moving large amounts of stuff from A to B, High speed 180 degree turns aren't much of a requirement.

b2spirita
03-24-2010, 01:32 PM
Id guess they were pretty poor also, but i think they could fly out of ground effect too so i guess in theory they could gain altitude to make a sharper turn.

JtD
03-24-2010, 01:48 PM
You guys don't really have to guess, if you start with wiki on ground effect craft, you can find a lot of links that will deal with a lot of aspects of these craft. For instance, the Caspian Sea monster would use the rudder for turning. Since at top speed it would be going in excess of 600 km/h, you can imagine that it would take a while to complete a 360. I'd call it navigating, not maneuvering.

Bremspropeller
03-24-2010, 01:55 PM
Does not appear it was capable of getting out of ground ( water ) effect.

******* GROUND-EFFECT-vehicles http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

b2spirita
03-24-2010, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by JtD:
You guys don't really have to guess, if you start with wiki on ground effect craft, you can find a lot of links that will deal with a lot of aspects of these craft. For instance, the Caspian Sea monster would use the rudder for turning. Since at top speed it would be going in excess of 600 km/h, you can imagine that it would take a while to complete a 360. I'd call it navigating, not maneuvering.

But wiki's down... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Ba5tard5word
03-24-2010, 02:34 PM
Boom n' zoom!

Bremspropeller
03-24-2010, 02:47 PM
So those SS-missiles are actually for clearing it's way - now I got it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

TS_Sancho
03-24-2010, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Does not appear it was capable of getting out of ground ( water ) effect.

******* GROUND-EFFECT-vehicles http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

M_Gunz
03-24-2010, 04:35 PM
It can also settle on the water and turn as a boat. With pumps fore and aft the thing could turn in place
though I dunno if it's got them. I wonder how hard to do a pure yaw turn in something like that?

M_Gunz
03-24-2010, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Does not appear it was capable of getting out of ground ( water ) effect.

******* GROUND-EFFECT-vehicles http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What's wrong with G-E-Vs?
How bad you feel about boats?

VXB77016
03-24-2010, 06:33 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
It can also settle on the water and turn as a boat. With pumps fore and aft the thing could turn in place
though I dunno if it's got them. I wonder how hard to do a pure yaw turn in something like that?

Ah ha! I'll bet you're right. Hadn't thought of pump thrusters. Good call.

M_Gunz
03-24-2010, 07:09 PM
And if you carried enough water up in ground effect, they could still thrust then.

VXB77016
03-24-2010, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
And if you carried enough water up in ground effect, they could still thrust then.

Yeah, you're right, because you need to take water on for ballast and trim anyway, and at that size what's an extra ton or two for steerage?

irR4tiOn4L
03-25-2010, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mortoma:
I'm not impressed with it at all. So what, it's big! That's about all it is. Does not appear it was capable of getting out of ground ( water ) effect. Show me a video of it flying at altitude and I'll believe it was something special. But even then, there's nothing technologically marvelous about it, even if it could fly at altitude.

Puh-leeze, you just don't like it because it's Communist! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ask him who first put a man into space...

(and for the record, being the awkward b*****r I am, I don't accept that what went on in the Soviet Union was 'communism'. That is way off topic, however) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My Grandpa never failed to point out it was 'Socialism', at least in the Czech context.

and lol at this ship not being special. A 600kmh+ ship that supposedly operated under radar (airborne ones at least) and could close and fire with ship killing missiles on sea borne horizon-limited ship radars so rapidly they would have no chance to respond is pretty 'special' if you ask me.

Having said that, i bet it appears on airborne radars these days though, defeating its point

M_Gunz
03-25-2010, 01:01 AM
Originally posted by irR4tiOn4L:
My Grandpa never failed to point out it was 'Socialism', at least in the Czech context.

He is right from a world wide context, from Marx's book itself. As long as there is a central
government it is Socialism. True Communism has no controlling authority nor can there be any
competing nations as without central authority you don't have military capability.
What is supposed to hold it together? Good will and wishes? The scheme is unworkable to get
past Socialism but it makes great promises to get poor people to revolt and then hand their
fate over to new masters.
My parents were livid that we were taught about Marx in school. They had no idea what we learned
but that never ever stopped them from jumping straight to wrong conclusions just as parents do
today.

general_kalle
03-25-2010, 03:45 AM
back on topic please

http://sonicbomb.com/v1.php?vi...pian%20Sea%20Monster (http://sonicbomb.com/v1.php?vid=aircraft/ekranoplan_km.wmv&id=500&ttitle=The%20Caspian%20Sea%20Monster) http://sonicbomb.com/v1.php?vi...pian%20Sea%20Monster (http://sonicbomb.com/v1.php?vid=aircraft/ekranoplan_km.wmv&id=500&ttitle=The%20Caspian%20Sea%20Monster)

irR4tiOn4L
03-25-2010, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by irR4tiOn4L:
My Grandpa never failed to point out it was 'Socialism', at least in the Czech context.

He is right from a world wide context, from Marx's book itself. As long as there is a central
government it is Socialism. True Communism has no controlling authority nor can there be any
competing nations as without central authority you don't have military capability.
What is supposed to hold it together? Good will and wishes? The scheme is unworkable to get
past Socialism but it makes great promises to get poor people to revolt and then hand their
fate over to new masters.
My parents were livid that we were taught about Marx in school. They had no idea what we learned
but that never ever stopped them from jumping straight to wrong conclusions just as parents do
today. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Propaganda is something that the West often doesnt realise it experiences, but it is still there. Sometimes it is organic, convictions that are rarely challenged. Many were taught to come to knee-jerk reactions in the depth of the Cold war.

The reality is, as usual, a little different. There were advantages, both sides of my family concede that even though one of my granfathers, a fighter pilot, left the air force, stepped out of the party and remained openly religious, and the other refused to join it, making them both persona non grata (a stigma my father had to work a year in the mines to overcome - by the twisted logic of the day, this made him proletariat and redeemed his position).

The fact is that a very large proportion of people in the first half of the 20th century believed in Communism. WWII was in many ways an ideological showdown of the three major systems (fascism, communism, democracy) of the day, and one that continued between the victors in the Cold War. It would be a mistake for the West to assume that because the Soviet Bloc collapsed, that this made their ideology 'right'.

Our world gets ever more complicated each day. Democracy, Capitalism, Theocracy, Communism, Fascism - these are ideas designed under prior paradigms in a simpler time. These systems do not exist in a pure form and it is unlikely we will see a showdown between them again.

However, it will be future ideas, future conceptions of a state that mask their complexity to our ideals and time that will challenge our ability to overcome our differences. Technocracy, Extremism, Excessive relativism or eco terrorism - perhaps the ideals we will fight for in the future.

Our successors will also no doubt describe our ideals, in due course, as simpler and vain, perhaps the product of naivety. Yet that might be a world where ideas of choice, determinism and the machinery of our minds may be what is explored and things we entirely dislike today like subliminal messaging or manipulation of the mind through advertising and propaganda may be what our successors describe as 'our naivety'.

How naive we were to think we could make independent choices they might say - when you ponder this, perhaps Marx's transgressions are not so grave after all. He operated in a different time, we cling onto ours just as much


Originally posted by general_kalle:
back on topic please

http://sonicbomb.com/v1.php?vi...pian%20Sea%20Monster (http://sonicbomb.com/v1.php?vid=aircraft/ekranoplan_km.wmv&id=500&ttitle=The%20Caspian%20Sea%20Monster) http://sonicbomb.com/v1.php?vi...pian%20Sea%20Monster (http://sonicbomb.com/v1.php?vid=aircraft/ekranoplan_km.wmv&id=500&ttitle=The%20Caspian%20Sea%20Monster)

Apologies, i got a little carried away!

VXB77016
03-25-2010, 03:58 AM
Nice post, irational.

M_Gunz
03-25-2010, 12:04 PM
I don't think that west or east are so different with knowing propaganda. There are some smart cookies in west.
Find a copy of Brave New World and see what Huxley had to say.

irR4tiOn4L
03-25-2010, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
I don't think that west or east are so different with knowing propaganda. There are some smart cookies in west.
Find a copy of Brave New World and see what Huxley had to say.

Dont remind me!

Required reading in school here in Aus.

msalama
03-26-2010, 05:33 PM
So what, it's big!

Patriotic Yank. Gun. Foot. Shot through. Enuff said http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif