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View Full Version : Just some thoughts from a wandering, rambling idiot...



Alahmnat
01-24-2005, 02:55 AM
I know there's been a lot of complaining going on in this community ever since the moment Mudpie was revealed as being a realtime game. For the most part I've been relatively quiet about it, too, because I really don't like getting involved in such debates. However, with End of Ages being realtime and the dissenting reaching yet another crecendo, I feel I need to voice my opinion on this subject, and for the sake of argument, I'll discard the fact that Cyan has spent the last 6 years transitioning into realtime and probably doesn't have a large enough staff artists with enough experience making pre-rendered graphics anymore to make such a project feasible... and just to be really nice I'll ignore the fact that the only reason we're getting this game probably at all is because Cyan is making use of their now-unusable assets from Uru Live, which would be even harder to re-build at pre-rendered quality than it would be to just start from scratch.

Speaking as someone who has getting into the gaming industry on his "to do" list, Uru was a game that I found very impressive. Mind you I'm not someone who is quickly put off by seeing individual faces on a sphere or noticing that when you turn your head your avatar's neck pinches up in the back, but in my mind those things are secondary to establishing the reality of a person or place. What makes or breaks an environment for me is not solely the graphics, as it seems to be with a sadly large number of people these days. What makes or breaks it is how well each polygon and each texture and each sound effect and musical element is used in the scene. 100 polygons used wisely is better than 1000 used because the engine will allow it. I think the Plasma engine and the demand for a more widely-accessible game has put the onus of storytelling squarely on Cyan's shoulders. If the story doesn't work, or it's missing entirely, or it just makes no sense, then it doesn't matter how many polygons you're putting on the screen, how many pixel shaders and meta-balls and NURMS/NURBS surfaces you're using, what level of bump- and displacement-mapping you can support... the game falls apart like a house of cards. Story, not graphics, are what hold games together. Why else would things like Final Fantasy and Zelda (I'm speaking the originals here, not the latest and greatest releases) have been hailed as wonderful games? The graphics were horrid! Now, I certainly won't argue that graphics empower the storyteller to tell larger and more intricate, elaborate stories, but as in the movie industry, I feel that the graphics should complement the story and be there for a reason, not try to push the story forward by themselves, or worse, just be there for the sake of being there (a fair comparison example: Return of the King versus Attack of the Clones).

Believe me, I know from experience that people can argue over the presence of a story in Uru, and I would prefer not to get into that too much here, largely because it's extremely late and I have my own worlds to be building at the moment. However, suffice it to say that when I walk through the worlds of Uru, I get a sense of reality, of place, and of history that I find very hard to get in many other games (if any) that have better graphics, and I'll tell you why: to many other developers, graphics are key. They're what drive the industry forward and make the money to create more games. Story is something that often comes only after the engine has been finalized and they want to know what to do with it. For Cyan, however, story is king. Everything they do, every place they construct, has history embedded in it, because they know the story of that place so well they can convey it just through the dust and cracks and holes and moss growing on the walls. No, Uru may not have all the glitz and glamor of Half-life 2, but IMHO, Cyan doesn't need it to tell good stories (which is what Myst has ALWAYS been about) and create places that look and sound like you could step through your monitor and really be there. I actually honestly think that giving Cyan the Half-life 2 engine would be a distraction... it would certainly distract me! I'd be too busy rigging elaborate Rube Goldberg machines to play out through Havok to make sure that the light sifted through this window and fell on the desk, highlighting the journal of the main character, which would tell the player of his woes and troubles.

I know that realtime is often railed against, especially in this community, because after a period of time it starts looking less and less "real", that the places you visit just look and feel "dated" by advances in technology. To that I say go stick Myst (the original, not Masterpiece Edition) in your computer and tell me how weird it is walking around (or perhaps more correctly, clicking around) 8-bit worlds made of terrains with color maps so low-res you can see the individual pixels, rounded surfaces covered in facets, and bump-mapped water that would make any modern-day developer cringe, not to mention the nightmarish quicktime video compression and 8-bit mono sound. Yet Myst continues to sell 11 years after its original release despite its incredibly dated-looking graphics while other pre-rendered games from the same period (Lighthouse, Timelapse, Connections, Frankenstein, Jewels of the Oracle, Robot City, The Journeyman Project, my list could continue...) have slipped into somewhere between relative and total obscurity, laughed off in many cases because of their crude graphics and bulky interfaces (not to mention the puzzles, but that's another point entirely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). Even some places in Riven are starting to lose their polish for me, and that's a long time coming, believe me. Pre-rendered games can and do become just as dated as realtime games. It's what the developer chooses to do with the technology they have at their disposal at that time that determines whether a game will stand out or fade into obscurity. Cyan has a history of making games which defy the computer game's typical lifespan by infusing them with characters, stories, and environments that transcend the limitations of their technology. How else can you explain how popular Manhole became with its literally two-bit graphics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif?

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it... Cyan's games need to be experienced firsthand before they can be outright dismissed. If after playing Myst, Riven, Manhole, Spelunx, Cosmic Osmo, or Uru you find it's not your cup of tea, then so be it. But I'll bet that if you actually gave it a chance, you might find something more worth your while than just another shiny new video game that you'll install for the pretty engine and remove to make room for the next one just as fast.

I look forward to seeing what Cyan has in store for us in End of Ages. I know a lot of folks here, especially those in the Uru crowd, are dieing to see what Ages they have left over from uru Live's development. But honestly, that's not important to me. I'm looking forward to End of Ages because I want to see how Cyan is going to wrap up the wildest (and longest!) ride I've ever been on. Where it takes me isn't important, because I know that no matter where it is, I'll actually be there, experiencing that world for myself so much that I'll dream about it when I finally drag myself off to bed. I want to know what characters are in it, I want to know what's gone wrong this time, and I want to know what we get to do to help these characters that have become closer to being my friends than is probably healthy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, because for me, the story is king, and I'm glad that at least one game developer in the world realizes that. If I can have fantastic graphics as well, that's just icing on the cake.

Now, with all of that said, I will speak to my personal opinion on the graphics themselves. When I play a game, I look for how the developers did things. It's just what I do, being so avidly interested in the field. Often times I can see exactly how things were done and could demonstrate to someone else how to do it. However, what has regularly attracted me to Cyan's work is that I have a hard time figuring out how they did very much of anything. What impresses me most about the graphics in Cyan's games, as well as Team Revelation's offering, is that I couldn't tell you how they did half of the stuff in there. It's just beyond my ability to discern (this is something I probably shouldn't be admiting since I'm gonna be looking for a job in March, hehe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). Places like Jungle Island, Haven, Gahreesen, Ahnonay, and to a lesser extent Spire, Serenia, Tomahna, the rest of Riven, Kadish Tolesa, and Ae'Gura just blow my mind, and they do so not just because of their beauty, but because I know (and more often than not simply can't fathom) how much work and dedication went into bringing those places to life.

Now then, as I mentioned earlier, it's quite late and I have my own worlds to get back to building, but I just wanted to voice my opinion on this whole thing by trying to remind everyone that in the end, what's most important is the story, not the pretty pictures http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Alahmnat
01-24-2005, 02:55 AM
I know there's been a lot of complaining going on in this community ever since the moment Mudpie was revealed as being a realtime game. For the most part I've been relatively quiet about it, too, because I really don't like getting involved in such debates. However, with End of Ages being realtime and the dissenting reaching yet another crecendo, I feel I need to voice my opinion on this subject, and for the sake of argument, I'll discard the fact that Cyan has spent the last 6 years transitioning into realtime and probably doesn't have a large enough staff artists with enough experience making pre-rendered graphics anymore to make such a project feasible... and just to be really nice I'll ignore the fact that the only reason we're getting this game probably at all is because Cyan is making use of their now-unusable assets from Uru Live, which would be even harder to re-build at pre-rendered quality than it would be to just start from scratch.

Speaking as someone who has getting into the gaming industry on his "to do" list, Uru was a game that I found very impressive. Mind you I'm not someone who is quickly put off by seeing individual faces on a sphere or noticing that when you turn your head your avatar's neck pinches up in the back, but in my mind those things are secondary to establishing the reality of a person or place. What makes or breaks an environment for me is not solely the graphics, as it seems to be with a sadly large number of people these days. What makes or breaks it is how well each polygon and each texture and each sound effect and musical element is used in the scene. 100 polygons used wisely is better than 1000 used because the engine will allow it. I think the Plasma engine and the demand for a more widely-accessible game has put the onus of storytelling squarely on Cyan's shoulders. If the story doesn't work, or it's missing entirely, or it just makes no sense, then it doesn't matter how many polygons you're putting on the screen, how many pixel shaders and meta-balls and NURMS/NURBS surfaces you're using, what level of bump- and displacement-mapping you can support... the game falls apart like a house of cards. Story, not graphics, are what hold games together. Why else would things like Final Fantasy and Zelda (I'm speaking the originals here, not the latest and greatest releases) have been hailed as wonderful games? The graphics were horrid! Now, I certainly won't argue that graphics empower the storyteller to tell larger and more intricate, elaborate stories, but as in the movie industry, I feel that the graphics should complement the story and be there for a reason, not try to push the story forward by themselves, or worse, just be there for the sake of being there (a fair comparison example: Return of the King versus Attack of the Clones).

Believe me, I know from experience that people can argue over the presence of a story in Uru, and I would prefer not to get into that too much here, largely because it's extremely late and I have my own worlds to be building at the moment. However, suffice it to say that when I walk through the worlds of Uru, I get a sense of reality, of place, and of history that I find very hard to get in many other games (if any) that have better graphics, and I'll tell you why: to many other developers, graphics are key. They're what drive the industry forward and make the money to create more games. Story is something that often comes only after the engine has been finalized and they want to know what to do with it. For Cyan, however, story is king. Everything they do, every place they construct, has history embedded in it, because they know the story of that place so well they can convey it just through the dust and cracks and holes and moss growing on the walls. No, Uru may not have all the glitz and glamor of Half-life 2, but IMHO, Cyan doesn't need it to tell good stories (which is what Myst has ALWAYS been about) and create places that look and sound like you could step through your monitor and really be there. I actually honestly think that giving Cyan the Half-life 2 engine would be a distraction... it would certainly distract me! I'd be too busy rigging elaborate Rube Goldberg machines to play out through Havok to make sure that the light sifted through this window and fell on the desk, highlighting the journal of the main character, which would tell the player of his woes and troubles.

I know that realtime is often railed against, especially in this community, because after a period of time it starts looking less and less "real", that the places you visit just look and feel "dated" by advances in technology. To that I say go stick Myst (the original, not Masterpiece Edition) in your computer and tell me how weird it is walking around (or perhaps more correctly, clicking around) 8-bit worlds made of terrains with color maps so low-res you can see the individual pixels, rounded surfaces covered in facets, and bump-mapped water that would make any modern-day developer cringe, not to mention the nightmarish quicktime video compression and 8-bit mono sound. Yet Myst continues to sell 11 years after its original release despite its incredibly dated-looking graphics while other pre-rendered games from the same period (Lighthouse, Timelapse, Connections, Frankenstein, Jewels of the Oracle, Robot City, The Journeyman Project, my list could continue...) have slipped into somewhere between relative and total obscurity, laughed off in many cases because of their crude graphics and bulky interfaces (not to mention the puzzles, but that's another point entirely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). Even some places in Riven are starting to lose their polish for me, and that's a long time coming, believe me. Pre-rendered games can and do become just as dated as realtime games. It's what the developer chooses to do with the technology they have at their disposal at that time that determines whether a game will stand out or fade into obscurity. Cyan has a history of making games which defy the computer game's typical lifespan by infusing them with characters, stories, and environments that transcend the limitations of their technology. How else can you explain how popular Manhole became with its literally two-bit graphics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif?

I've said it before and I'll continue to say it... Cyan's games need to be experienced firsthand before they can be outright dismissed. If after playing Myst, Riven, Manhole, Spelunx, Cosmic Osmo, or Uru you find it's not your cup of tea, then so be it. But I'll bet that if you actually gave it a chance, you might find something more worth your while than just another shiny new video game that you'll install for the pretty engine and remove to make room for the next one just as fast.

I look forward to seeing what Cyan has in store for us in End of Ages. I know a lot of folks here, especially those in the Uru crowd, are dieing to see what Ages they have left over from uru Live's development. But honestly, that's not important to me. I'm looking forward to End of Ages because I want to see how Cyan is going to wrap up the wildest (and longest!) ride I've ever been on. Where it takes me isn't important, because I know that no matter where it is, I'll actually be there, experiencing that world for myself so much that I'll dream about it when I finally drag myself off to bed. I want to know what characters are in it, I want to know what's gone wrong this time, and I want to know what we get to do to help these characters that have become closer to being my friends than is probably healthy http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif, because for me, the story is king, and I'm glad that at least one game developer in the world realizes that. If I can have fantastic graphics as well, that's just icing on the cake.

Now, with all of that said, I will speak to my personal opinion on the graphics themselves. When I play a game, I look for how the developers did things. It's just what I do, being so avidly interested in the field. Often times I can see exactly how things were done and could demonstrate to someone else how to do it. However, what has regularly attracted me to Cyan's work is that I have a hard time figuring out how they did very much of anything. What impresses me most about the graphics in Cyan's games, as well as Team Revelation's offering, is that I couldn't tell you how they did half of the stuff in there. It's just beyond my ability to discern (this is something I probably shouldn't be admiting since I'm gonna be looking for a job in March, hehe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif). Places like Jungle Island, Haven, Gahreesen, Ahnonay, and to a lesser extent Spire, Serenia, Tomahna, the rest of Riven, Kadish Tolesa, and Ae'Gura just blow my mind, and they do so not just because of their beauty, but because I know (and more often than not simply can't fathom) how much work and dedication went into bringing those places to life.

Now then, as I mentioned earlier, it's quite late and I have my own worlds to get back to building, but I just wanted to voice my opinion on this whole thing by trying to remind everyone that in the end, what's most important is the story, not the pretty pictures http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

donna_marie
01-24-2005, 03:39 AM
Hi, I think you have just touched on the very thing that all myst fans have in common, the love of the story, the chance to be a part of an ongoing story of a family. With wonderfull places to visit and experiences to be had, is it any wonder the games have stayed alive so long. The creaters of these wonderfull games have filled my life with the joy of exploring new worlds solving twisted puzzles, for many years. I only hope they continue to do so. I greatly admire the tallent that goes into creating the myst series of games. A big thank you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

kitzingmarko
01-24-2005, 04:07 AM
Is it an official fact that Myst V will contain the left overs of Uru Live?

GadrenURU
01-24-2005, 04:43 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kitzingmarko:
Is it an official fact that Myst V will contain the left overs of Uru Live? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well, the Ages of Toldemer and Noloben (which were going to be in Uru Live) will be in EoA, so yes, EoA will contain "left-overs"...


Alahmnat, thank you for this great post...this is exactly how i feel, and how annoyed i am with those that whine but have never given it a chance.

kitzingmarko
01-24-2005, 07:07 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GadrenURU:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kitzingmarko:
Is it an official fact that Myst V will contain the left overs of Uru Live? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well, the Ages of Toldemer and Noloben (which were going to be in Uru Live) will be in EoA, so yes, EoA will contain "left-overs"...


Alahmnat, thank you for this great post...this is exactly how i feel, and how annoyed i am with those that whine but have never given it a chance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thank you.

Tweek
01-24-2005, 07:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GadrenURU:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kitzingmarko:
Is it an official fact that Myst V will contain the left overs of Uru Live? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well, the Ages of Toldemer and Noloben (which were going to be in Uru Live) will be in EoA, so yes, EoA will contain "left-overs"...


Alahmnat, thank you for this great post...this is exactly how i feel, and how annoyed i am with those that whine but have never given it a chance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would be careful what you say here as you may give people false hope. As for Todelmer yes it seems likely it will be in EoA. As for Noloben it hasnt been confirmed it will be in the game. It could just be recycled content the cove put into another new age that could be called Bob. There are significant differences between the EoA Cove image and the Noloben shots which leads me to wonder if it really is noloben or a new age with noloben area's in it.

Tweek

JennyH
01-24-2005, 07:32 AM
Well said Al!!

kitzingmarko
01-24-2005, 09:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tweek:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GadrenURU:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kitzingmarko:
Is it an official fact that Myst V will contain the left overs of Uru Live? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
well, the Ages of Toldemer and Noloben (which were going to be in Uru Live) will be in EoA, so yes, EoA will contain "left-overs"...


Alahmnat, thank you for this great post...this is exactly how i feel, and how annoyed i am with those that whine but have never given it a chance. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would be careful what you say here as you may give people false hope. As for Todelmer yes it seems likely it will be in EoA. As for Noloben it hasnt been confirmed it will be in the game. It could just be recycled content the cove put into another new age that could be called Bob. There are significant differences between the EoA Cove image and the Noloben shots which leads me to wonder if it really is noloben or a new age with noloben area's in it.

Tweek <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well it was not my hope that they would reuse the old content. I just want to know. In the end it does not matter at all, because it will be new for us either way.

Mowog
01-24-2005, 10:11 AM
Excellent observations, Alahmnat. I find it significant that Myst spawned three rather good novelizations. Not just generic fantasies based on the Myst characters, mind you, but good, gripping stories built around the D'ni legends as described in the games. And since they came from the same source (Rand, more or less), there was a continuity between the books and the games that made the games, especially Uru, that much more real. Yes, there were some discontinuities. The location of the Cleft has been discussed to death. But having read the books, it was just a little eerie to climb down into the Cleft and see Anna's handiwork on the stone walls, Atrus's sleeping chamber, the workroom, etc. And then to finally make it down to the Cavern and explore Ae'gura... splendid! To fantasize that I was walking streets that once thronged with hundreds, in a city that was the seat of an ancient civilization, was amazing. To explore the City with others was magical.

So yes, the story rules.

iofthemourning
01-24-2005, 11:54 AM
Alamnhat has hit the nail on the head. As with all truly great works of fiction, the characters and events in the Myst stories present us with more than just the opportunity to play a pivetal role in exhilerating adventures...they allow us to escape to worlds that are literally like nothing we have ever seen. To come back out of that fantasy into the real world is just as exciting as entering it...we look at things differently...The Myst stories help us more readily appreciate nature, art, science, culture, the nature of power...

Does anything else in the history of video games come close?
No.
Does it matter if it's in realtime 3D, prerendered or dot matrix?
No.



PS. Okay, dot matrix would be a bit of a let-down.

"I feel nothing...
I am nothing."
Catherine, 'Riven'

Mysthints
01-24-2005, 01:27 PM
Great post, Alahmnat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Reading some of the negative posts, I've felt like writing much the same thing...now I'm glad I didn't. I'm with you 100% too--the story is why I love Myst so much. Personally, I've found that Uru draws me back more than even Myst IV, because if I can walk anywhere, and look at anything, it just reinforces the incredible reality of the worlds, making the story seem amazingly real. But in the end, it doesn't really matter.

One of the reasons I'm not freaking out after hearing that Myst V will be Cyan's last Myst game (not that I'm not holding out hope for something D'ni-themed in the future), is that know how good they are at making ledgendary adventures and I'd love to see what else they could dream up... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

DudeMiester
01-24-2005, 09:44 PM
I feel that graphics are equally important as story, sound, gameplay, etc. Each is a component of the experiance, and each makes a significant contribution to the whole. I feel that a game cannot be considered a "must buy" or "amazing" unless it pushes frontiers in all of these areas. Sure it may be incredibly difficult, but the end product is worth it. So while Myst V may be mind-blowing in its story, if that's the only place it excels, then it is not "amazing" imho. It is not a complete experiance.

Then again information is too spare as this point to make a truely accurate judgement in any of these areas. However, I think the story aspect is a given, and from the few sceenshots the visuals look decent, but it's really too early to tell. I need more information.

ximo
01-26-2005, 09:06 AM
Thank you Alahmnat... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I started talking about game graphics with some friends yesterday, and I haven't been able to explain yet why the ages of Uru seem so "physically real" to me. When I walk in Teledahn, seeing the shadows turning around objects, I really feel like I'm there. When it rains in Kemo, I must force myself to think: "you're not really getting wet!" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Because every little thing makes sense, just as in Riven and in every other Uru age.
Because the story of Myst and Uru is not an excuse for the games; it's what gives birth to them.

Whitch2
01-26-2005, 03:28 PM
Uhmmmm....yeah! What Alah said. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Well done, Alahmnat! http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0903/Which2/smilies/yelclap.gif

mszv
01-26-2005, 07:05 PM
Alah always does such great posts!

The problem is with "story" versus "backstory". There's a rich backstory, the worlds. However, in some of the games, the "story", what happens in the games, the characters, the plot, what happens in the game - it is very light. Now I love Myst, and I think the story worked fine, and it was appropriate to the game, but it was light. Good thing it was a "classic" family dynamic thing going on, not too hard to pick up on. Uru also had a rich backstory, but the story, in terms of characters and what happened (even for a first person "wander around" game) was not well worked out at all, in my opinion. Now perhaps in an online game (one with more to do) that would have worked, but as a solo player game, I think there were problems. Not that I didn't like the game (Uru), I do, quite a lot, and I like the worlds. Sometimes I just go into the game and wander around - it's lovely and very evocative.

I think Myst IV has a excellent story, to go with the backstory of the worlds. There are characters you get to know (though not too much, it's still a lovely first person wander around) game, a plot (things happen), emotional content (I cared about the characters) and there is an ending. I love Myst Revelation. However, I think it's only right that the final game in the series is going to be developed by Cyan (the creator of the original Myst) and not Ubisoft (the creator of Myst IV Revelation - they licensed the rights from Cyan.

I'm looking forward to see what happens with Myst V. It's a chance to close out the series. I'm looking forward to seeing what Cyan can do, the Cyan of today. I should explain. Although it's the same company (Cyan, the creator of Myst, Riven and Uru), I don't think the Cyan of Myst, the Cyan of Riven and the Cyan of Uru is the same company, exactly. Key players from the Myst days and the Riven days aren't there. There's also lots of people who weren't there in the Myst days or the Riven days. That's how companies are, companies change, people move on. What I really want to to see is if the Cyan of today can do a "story". I know they can do the graphics and the sound (Uru was beautiful) but the "story" thing, that's the challenge.

On why people buy the games - I don't think most people bought Myst for the story - they bought it because of the beautiful worlds you got to wander around in, as if you are there. Myst isn't generally seen, in any other site I've been to, or any review I've read, as having much of a story.

On realtime - agree with your there. Not that I didn't love Myst Revelation, but I think realtime is the way to go.

Well,gee, you can see I don't agree with everything Alahmnat said, but he has such good comments.

mszv
01-27-2005, 11:32 AM
Well, let's have someone else comment here. I bet more people agree with Alahmnat the "disagreeing a bit" me!

Mysthints
01-27-2005, 12:19 PM
Like I said, Uru does draw me back more due to it's realtime worlds, but I think mszv has a point about Uru's lack of game-story. When friends asked me about Uru--"what do you do...solve puzzles so you can...solve more puzzles?" I didn't really feel like I could say you were unlocking a great "story"...at least not in the sense you were in Riven or Revelation. But this was a story that was originally intended to evolve over months and years. So I'm excited that, with (hopefully) a single-player adventure in mind from the start, Cyan can put together a really great story. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But as for most people buying Myst games because of the graphics they see online or on the cover, after looking at the screenshots, I don't think Cyan will have any problem in that department. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Mr Zebe D
01-27-2005, 03:36 PM
Stories are to all intents and purposes closed - they have a beginning, a middle and the end. URU was only meant to be the beginning, the character presentation if you like, the Prologue the next chapter, and substription URU Live the story beyond that.

What URU is isn't what it was meant to be. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Mowog
01-28-2005, 09:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Like I said, Uru does draw me back more due to it's realtime worlds... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Funny, that's been my experience too. As spectacular and challenging as Myst IV has been, I usually find myself linking back down to the Cavern in "Until Uru" instead, to visit with friends, even though there's no "game" anymore as such, and most of our conversation runs along the lines of "What's going on?" "Not much." "Sure is laggy down here tonight."

I think Myst V is going to be amazing, however they do it. The Myst saga has meant so much to Cyan that I'm sure the closing chapter will be a great story, and well worth the wait; if for no other reason than it's been designed from the start as a closing chapter, and isn't being forced upon them.

Dark Screen
01-30-2005, 01:39 AM
I don't find the individual games to have really great stories. It's the books that make the story. I read the books back in the days when they were coming out and they were high quality. The games together with the books makes the story awesome. I remember playing Uru and I went to various places and saw things I had read about. One example was when the cleft had rain, I was hoping/looking for flowers and then there they were.

I play the Myst games for everything. The graphics are a large reason for me to play Myst games. The other major reason is the puzzles. After playing Uru, I didn't want to see another pre-rendered Myst game ever again. Myst IV was pre-rendered and that made me sad. I got frustrated when I missed places to click and just got lost because of the "teleporting" between nodes. 3D environments are much better. Uru had and still has great graphics.

I'm very tired of reading people say comments along the lines of "Uru isn't a Myst game." What do you call it then? I find this rediculous. It has the name Myst in the title and it has characters from the Myst games. It's called "Uru: Ages Beyond Myst." The expansion pack: "To D'ni" is obviously related to Myst. Many more things could be said but they aren't needed to prove that it's a Myst game. All I really needed to say was the title. If anyone still thinks Uru isn't a Myst game, I'd like to know why. Also, you somehow have to convince me everything I just said is false.

Zymmin
01-30-2005, 09:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Screen:
If anyone still thinks Uru isn't a Myst game, I'd like to know why. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am in total agreement

Uru was more like any game that dealt with the D'ni than any other. The original, was awesome but only dealt with the D'ni tangentially , I thought. Uru brought me into the story so much more - although I have to say that "Live" certainly contributed to that.

Walking through the Ages that the D'ni live in and dealt with the D'ni directly, rather than the two "bad boys" emmersed me into the story much much more than any other. It made me feel like an archeologist!

I really like Riven too which did much of the same. Exile dealt with the D'ni but only with one man's revenge, again, what Sirrus and Achenar did.

Uru brought back the historical aspect of the D'ni and drew me in as a member rather than a nameless apparition.

Playing devil's advocate though, I do understand where some didn't like the avatar aspect. The transition to a freely moving "person" that could go anywhere left you with a "where should I go?" "what do I do" aspect that maybe some hard-core Myst fans were uncomfortable with. It took me some getting used to. Some of tehe cartwheels that we had to go through to do some things were poorly thought out nad executed, but overall it was an excellent experience. As as I think Rand Miller said in the begining of Uru (and I am paraphrasing here) "Try 3rd person, we think you will like it".

And I would like to say to some fellow Mysters that are more than unpleased with the decision to develop this in 3D - please don't compare Uru or EoA to Max Payne. That is an asinine comparison. I understand that you don't like realtime, but that ad hominim attack is similar to comparing Einstein to Dennis Rodman.

Dark Screen
01-30-2005, 12:57 PM
Can anyone direct me to where I can find the official word that Myst V is being developed in realtime 3d? Everyone seems to know that it is in realtime and I can't find the official word.

Games can not be perfect for everyone. People have different opinions. Uru contained a few things I didn't like but so do the pre-rendered Myst games. I prefer 1st person but I loved having the option for 3rd person. More options = more fun. The character customization was geared towards the multiplayer aspect but even when that failed, I still liked customizing myself.

My friends that haven't been big Myst fans from the beginning don't like pre-rendered games (I don't like them much anymore). They call it 2d and don't really even consider playing it. They were much more into real myst and Uru due to the free movement. So if you want to think about getting the more typical gamer to like Myst games, it needs to be 3D. The pre-rendered images were used back in the day because that was the only way it could be done. Now realtime 3d can look very good as demonstrated by Uru. Even Real Myst has decent graphics. When real myst came out, the graphics were exceptionally good. The snow effect was awesome!

I'd like to add the following about me liking Myst games largely becaue of the graphics. It's more the enviroments/Ages that I like so much. This is largely done by the graphics. It also includes music and sound effects. The puzzles and how various parts of the Age work also adds to the quality. Each age seems to have some sort of a cool theme. Mechanical objects also rock. Basically, I like everything. I need to go replay all the Myst games now.

Tweek
01-30-2005, 01:51 PM
I'm not sure if there is an offical "yes its reltime" statement however screenshots show its realtime and it has been stated that its using plasma 2.1 which is an updated version of the engine that Uru uses.

I love Uru tis my fave game of the D'niverse I was weary about the controls but after previewing the game I found the controls fine. The only issue I get with navigating the avatar is down to lag on UU.

Tweek

Mysthints
01-30-2005, 02:47 PM
Well, if you look at the official press release (http://www.ubi.com/US/News/Info.aspx?nId=1940) from Ubisoft, it says "Myst V: End of Ages advances the graphical beauty and detail of its worlds with a fully immersive 3D environment". Rand says: "To complete this circle of Myst we've embraced the idea of something old and something new. New in regard to pushing forward in areas of interface and technology." After seeing how long Cyan has been working toward this technology, and after hearing how passionately and excitedly Rand speaks about being able to use realtime 3D to make Myst come alive, it's a given. Plus, look at the screenshots. No complaints here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif !

mszv
01-30-2005, 05:18 PM
On the avatar thing (you control a person walking around), since Uru was originally a multiplayer game, you had to have an avatar - a representation of you for other people to react with. I have my doubts as to whether they would have done the avatar thing for a solo player game - I don't think an avatar would have been needed if you were the only person who got to see it.

Yes, I think that Uru is a game in the Myst series, but there are fans who don't think so. I think it's because the time period is different, and Uru was originally multi-player. All the other games in the Myst series are solo player games, as is the current version of Uru.

As far as I can tell, from everything I've read, Myst V is real time 3D (yippee!). It's 1st person, right? You know, I don't remember reading that anywhere, but that's what I thought it was - no avatar.

GadrenURU
01-30-2005, 06:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As far as I can tell, from everything I've read, Myst V is real time 3D (yippee!). It's 1st person, right? You know, I don't remember reading that anywhere, but that's what I thought it was - no avatar. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

we don't know either way...i personally doubt that Myst V will have an avatar (althought i certainly would not be opposed to the idea)...

Mowog
01-30-2005, 06:56 PM
I have some peculiar feelings about the graphics. On the one hand, I really enjoy the striking realism of Myst IV. On the other hand, I like the not-quite-so-realistic imagery in Uru.

Let me go back a few years. Okay, a LOT of years. I went to grade school during the 1960s, back when classroom audio-visuals were either filmstrips or overhead projections. I remember many times when the teacher would be preparing to present a filmstrip or something, she would bring up the first image and focus it. As a kid who was into technical stuff, I always thought that was fascinating. Seeing that colored image on the screen was way cool, and sort of mysterious. But when the teacher dialed-in the focus, the image lost most of that fascination. Suddenly, I could see the picture all-too-clearly, as well as the dust and scratches on the filmstrip, and the image became merely a blown-up frame on an acetate filmstrip, and not nearly so interesting. I hope you get what I'm talking about... when it became too realistic, it was less interesting somehow. It left less to the imagination.

Another thought; think of Claude Monet. Years ago there was an exhibition of his work at our local art museum, and I went and enjoyed it very much. I stood for a good while absorbed in his famous water lilies. Now anyone could have captured a similar scene with a camera, blown it up large, framed it, and hung it in a museum. But it wouldn't have drawn the kind of crowd that came to see the Monet works. Monet's interpretation of realism was where the magic was. That interpretation, working in concert with our imaginations , made the scene something more than real. Better than real, really.

I think that Cyan is really good at getting the "better than real" effect with their visuals. They aren't photographic, but there's a certain impressionistic quality to their best work that does more for me than photorealism could. Myst IV, for example, is strikingly real. Ubi went to great lengths to bring the worlds to life, and I applaud them. But there was something about the spare simplicity of the original Myst that was like that blurry filmstrip frame to me. It was a little better than real! The same with Uru... the render-on-the-fly images weren't quite as polished as the pre-rendered scenes in Myst IV, Riven, Exile, etc. But perhaps it was that slight lack of perfection that made them a bit impressionistic to me, and therefore very appealing.

Someone (Orson Welles?) once referred to radio as "the theater of the mind." His audio dramas laid a framework, and your imagination filled in the rest. The same goes for a good book, too. Conversely, the same does NOT go for television or film, where the whole thing is laid out in its entirety, leaving your imagination with not much to do. How many of us went to see the Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings films mainly to compare the film's scenes with the ones we'd built in our imaginations when reading the books? Cyan, at their best, makes us use not only our deductive reasoning, but also our imaginations. Their worlds become real as we explore them, but only because we have to contribute our imaginations to the effort.

Ah well, enough rambling.

Ni Cahlas the Young
02-03-2005, 10:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Screen:
If anyone still thinks Uru isn't a Myst game, I'd like to know why. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not so much because people don't like Uru that they say it's not a Myst game, but simply because it follows a very different storyline (not directly dealing with Atrus and his family) and the gameplay is very different, having an avatar and all. That's all there is to it. So I'll say Uru isnt a Myst game and still like it for what it is.

Tweek
02-03-2005, 10:27 AM
Uru isnt a Myst game. Its more of a spin off.

Interface and graphics dont make a myst game myst. Its more the spirit of the game which makes it what it is.

Uru is without a doubt my favorite game of the D'niverse if Myst V tops that then that would be fantastic.

Tweek

Dark Screen
02-05-2005, 01:11 PM
"Uru isnt a Myst game. Its more of a spin off."

I don't even know what else to say, I can't even comprehend how you are saying this. Do you also believe Half-Life 2 isn't a Half-Life game? Are you going to claim DVD's aren't DVD's? Black isn't actually Black?

If Uru isn't a Myst game, neither are Myst II, Myst III, or Myst IV. Thats a complete lie though.

Is there a way to hide stuff on this thread(spoilers)?

Alahmnat
02-05-2005, 02:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Screen:
"Uru isnt a Myst game. Its more of a spin off."

I don't even know what else to say, I can't even comprehend how you are saying this. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You have to realize the people (myself included) who say that Uru isn't a Myst game diferentiate between what's widely considered the Myst story and the wider universe that Myst fits into. Uru is a game that fits into Myst's larger universe, but because the game is set 200 years after Myst, Riven, Exile, and Revelation, and because you are no longer taking up the same role as in the Myst games (your part as the ubiquitous stranger has been replaced by your part as a random extra http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif), and because Atrus is little more than a footnote in Uru rather than a major character, many consider it to be less related to Myst than any of the direct sequels, which deal directly with helping Atrus get out of some embarassingly ridiculous jam time and time again (you'd think the man would eventually run out of skeletons in his oversized walk-in closet... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

So no, Uru is not a Myst game even though it shares the same universe. A lot of people refer to that universe as the "Myst Universe" and therefore count Uru as a Myst game, but generally speaking, the people who count Uru as a thing apart call that larger universe the "D'ni Universe" or "D'niverse", of which both Myst and Uru are related but seperate parts. The story narrative, setting, characters, and your role in the story are distinctly different between the two games, which is cause enough for people to draw a line between the two.

And just for the record, no, there are no spoiler tags on this forum.

Dark Screen
02-05-2005, 02:26 PM
It's still a Myst game though. "So no, Uru is not a Myst game..." You need to reword that saying because it still isn't true and doesn't make sense.

Which of the games let you go to Myst? Uh-oh...

Mysthints
02-05-2005, 04:47 PM
I can see why I lot of people see Uru as a spin-off. In a way it is, because it wasn't Myst IV. But in my opinion, anything connected to the D'ni universe is a "Myst" game. It's what Myst is about. But the core series revolves around Atrus's family, yet leaving Uru strongly connected to the main series because of Yeesha's presence throughout the game. But if you only count games where you go save Atrus from another calamity, you may not be counting Myst V either. I think Cyan's probably as tired of that as we are. I'd consider a true spin-off something connected to the D'ni universe, but revolving around different people. But that's just me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif.

ivanxuereb
02-05-2005, 11:31 PM
When you install uru one of the message on the screen while installing says that uru is the latest saga in the Myst series.

Alahmnat
02-06-2005, 01:46 PM
Marketing is the last thing I would ever consider reliable... the back of the original Myst box has a letter from Atrus that makes the game look like a murder mystery http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif.

Tora_Neko
02-06-2005, 06:36 PM
Way to go Al! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif That's it exactly! Story is key and graphics just help. Yup yup! Honestly, I don't understand the argument. I don't know the difference between pre-rendered and realtime. I only care about the story. Graphics are cool, and better graphics are cooler, but I don't know the technical terms, and have never really cared what the difference is. The only difference I saw between myst and RealMyst was the addition of weather and day/night. It was cool at first, then got annoying. The reason I got realMyst was for the addition of the Rime Age, not because it was a different type of graphics or whatever.

"Uru isn't a Myst game" is misleading. Alahmnat and Ni Cahlas both have some really good points. Most of the argument stems from two facts: 1)Uru has a 3rd person avater, and 2)There is a 200-250 year gap between the deaths of the Myst/Riven/ect characters and 'us' in Uru. Like Alahmnat said, there is a Myst Universe and an Uruverse percieved within the greater D'niverse. Like 1st person vs 3rd person, whether Uru is or isn't a Myst game is all matter of opinion really.

GadrenURU
02-06-2005, 07:35 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Screen:
It's still a Myst game though. "So no, Uru is not a Myst game..." You need to reword that saying because it still isn't true and doesn't make sense.

Which of the games let you go to Myst? Uh-oh... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that was an odd statement on your part...some people have certain beliefs that it is or isn't, and saying that "It's still a Myst game though." doesn't tell much.
these kind of statements are making this debate devolve into a "yes it is-no it isn't" thing...

anyway, i seem to remember the Cyan people themselves trying to distance Uru from the rest of the Myst series...so it was the creators' hopes that it would not be a "Myst game". i'll try to find some sources.

GadrenURU
02-06-2005, 07:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Screen:
It's still a Myst game though. "So no, Uru is not a Myst game..." You need to reword that saying because it still isn't true and doesn't make sense.

Which of the games let you go to Myst? Uh-oh... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that was an odd statement on your part...some people have certain beliefs that it is or isn't, and saying that "It's still a Myst game though." doesn't tell much.
these kind of statements are making this debate devolve into a "yes it is-no it isn't" thing...

anyway, i seem to remember the Cyan people themselves trying to distance Uru from the rest of the Myst series...so it was the creators' hopes that it would not be a "Myst game". i'll try to find some sources.

EDIT: here's some from the Uru Complete Chronicles strategy guide:

"He [Atrus] was never planned to be anything in Uru at all," says Rand. "We only wanted thin lines of connecion between what Myst was and what Uru was ... "

[RAWA taking about Yeesha] Bringing in a completely new major character with ties to the past also lets Cyan take Myst forward into Uru without inviting direct comparisons between the two experiences .... Uru is the beginning og something new for Cyan...

Dark Screen
02-06-2005, 10:59 PM
"...whether Uru is or isn't a Myst game is all matter of opinion really. "

"...these kind of statements are making this debate devolve into a "yes it is-no it isn't" thing..."

It's a fact, you people can't handle it. Thats all it is, is a yes or a no.

Is it also a matter of opinion that 1 = 1? If you want to be an idiot(Do you think you are a philosopher?), then yes it's an opinion. I think of it as a fact though.

I quit. I can't even convince you guys of facts/logic.

It's known that there are differences between Myst and Uru but it's still a Myst game. Yes it's on the side but it's still a Myst game.

Sequels don't count either then with your logic because it's not the exact same story as Myst and didn't happen at the exact same time. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Just remember, I told you Uru IS a Myst game.

Alahmnat
02-07-2005, 12:34 AM
And the creators say it isn't. The name-calling from you will stop now, Dark Screen, because it's both rude and inappropriate to be calling people stupid idiots. I'm done discussing this because it's completely tangental to the thread topic and it's started evolving into name-calling. Any further and I'll just lock it.

Mysthints
02-07-2005, 12:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Any further and I'll just lock it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, it's almost nearing that point. It's beyond me how something so trivial can spiral into a huge debate like this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif. It's just a game, guys.

Dark Screen
02-07-2005, 05:02 PM
Yeah, it's a very nice Myst game. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I don't think I called anyone a stupid idiot. If I did, sorry. I only called someone and idiot IF they believed 1 was not equal to 1. It's foolish to believe 1 != 1, therefore a person who believes this could be considered an idiot.

When/where did the creators say Uru isn't a Myst game?

The official site even says:

"From Cyan Worlds, the makers of Mystâ® and Rivenâ"ž˘, Uruâ"ž˘: Ages Beyond Myst is the next chapter of the Myst franchise and the most immersive and ambitious Myst experience ever created. "

Those quotes in the strategy guide also confirm it's a Myst game. They just says it's on the side yet still connected to Myst. Just not as greatly as the other Myst games(thinly).

GadrenURU
02-07-2005, 05:13 PM
right, since it's thinly connected, and isn't a direct sequel, it's a spinoff. i agree with you that it is part of the Myst franchise, but only in the sense that all D'ni-related things are part of it.

here's another quote of Rand Miller, just for fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif :

Tiscali: What does URU bring to the Myst series
RM: We consider it a spin-off rather than a sequel, although the core story remains. The main thing is the real-time 3D graphics, which was a tough decision for us in terms of not wanting to lose the beauty of the original Myst visuals. Then there is the online version, which adds a consistent world and new challenges. The online version allows players to continue the offline game, and experience unique adventures and worlds. People are used to fresh content from newspapers and TV and we can offer that with URU: Live.

Jnathus
02-07-2005, 05:48 PM
I read somewhere (I can't remember the source) that Cyan didn't want Myst anywhere on the URU box. They just wanted it to be called URU. However, it was called URU Ages Beyond Myst so that people could draw a connection.

I like Cyan's approach. Keep the style, but paint something else .. so to speak. (maybe that's the wrong metaphor). I (for one) wanted to see the D'ni or Myst storyline evolve sooner rather than later.. or at least end before it becomes a joke because of how many sequels it has.

Thinking for a second.. I wonder if Cyan wanted "the sequel to Myst" to be on the Riven box.

GadrenURU
02-07-2005, 05:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Thinking for a second.. I wonder if Cyan wanted "the sequel to Myst" to be on the Riven box. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

i remember hearing somewhere that a Cyanist was saying that they didn't.

Dark Screen
02-07-2005, 07:33 PM
Do you really think it will become a joke after 5 sequels and a side game? I think the whole culture they created allows for tons of sequels/sidegames and so far I like all of them. Of course some are better than others but all are cool.

mszv
02-07-2005, 08:39 PM
In every Myst game series forum I've ever been on (and I use the term "Myst game series" loosely) there has been intense passionate debate on whether Uru was a game in the Myst series. Is it in the series, is it a spin-off, is it just marketing that Myst is on the box? So, as long as we don't insult each other - everyone here is in good company! You can be a fan no matter what opinion you hold.

And, because I'm watching, and loving the series "House" (no, it's not a home improvement show) - after one of his outrageous comments he says, quoting a song "you say tomato, I say tomato" (put a different pronounciation on "tomato" each time). Maybe it applies here!

sillyeagle
02-07-2005, 09:38 PM
Wow! Some interesting thoughts in this thread. Speaking as a person who never played a computer game in her life until URU, I can tell you that I have been delighted and yes.. stunned.. at the graphics in ALL the Myst series games. URU was my first experience, and I actually just sat there, totally immersed in listening to the background music and looking at every single detail when I got to the mushroom age.

Once I completed URU and the xpack... I couldn't wait to go back and play the entire Myst series from the beginning. Was it the same? Of course not. Was I equally as impressed with the older games as I was with URU? You betcha!

The fact that any group of folks have such talent that causes me to get totally immersed in playing a game, to the detriment of my 'regular' life is astounding to me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Do I care how they did it? No. They are afterall, games. Each is a work of art unto itself, in my opinion, to be appreciated for their individuality as related to storyline, puzzles, etc.

Everytime I think I want to learn programming, even in my old age, I have to stop and tell myself that I don't have enough life left in me to ever reach a level that it takes to put ANY of these games together... so I'll just have to die an 'end user'. LOL And now that I've disovered these wonderful 'adventure' type games, I hope they keep making them. I'll certainly continue to enjoy them each for what they are. A wonderful, fascinating trip outside of real life. Whether it's 1st or 3rd person. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Jnathus
02-07-2005, 10:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dark Screen:
Do you really think it will become a joke after 5 sequels and a side game? I think the whole culture they created allows for tons of sequels/sidegames and so far I like all of them. Of course some are better than others but all are cool. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
No. I don't think it will be a joke after 4 sequels. However, if they KEPT making sequels and we reached a point where we're on Myst 12 . . it would've definitely become a joke, and the formula would've probably become a bit stale. Myst III and Myst IV took the static imagery to new heights, and I enjoyed both thoroughly. However URU started the D'ni universe's story in a different direction / angle, and I was glad to see that. We needed a 'new beginning,' instead of rehashing or adding to Atrus' troubles.

Mysthints
02-08-2005, 02:43 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>URU started the D'ni universe's story in a different direction / angle, and I was glad to see that. We needed a 'new beginning,' instead of rehashing or adding to Atrus' troubles. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm definately with you there. I think Myst could continue for a good while if Cyan adopted a "Final Fantasty" approach. Not that I want an RPG, but to make every game (or nearly every game) a new experience, with a different story and different characters--but still in the D'ni universe, of course. There's a lot of potential here. Of course, I'll grant Cyan a nice break before letting them decide whether or not they want to continue the saga... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Jnathus
02-08-2005, 03:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mysthints:
Of course, I'll grant Cyan a nice break before letting them decide whether or not they want to continue the saga... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>A nice . . SHORT . . break. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I don't want those creative fires to die down.

Mowog
03-27-2005, 07:19 PM
Here I go bumping a thread that had just about died down, but I don't think this was mentioned before: I personally think that all of the Myst installments would have been built in realtime 3D if the technology had been available when they were originally created. If I correctly understand what I've read elsewhere, Cyan always had realtime 3D in mind from day one, but the state of the art prohibited its use until they began work on Uru. They invested so much time and effort in Uru because that's where they wanted to be all along, and the advances in 3D gaming had at last progressed to the point that they could finally develop in realtime 3D. And now that they're there, they aren't going back to 2D... because this is where they've always wanted to be.

Mysthints
03-28-2005, 07:25 PM
That's where they want to be, and that's where I want them to be. I'm glad Cyan can finally realize their dreams. With some higher-quality textures and a little engine boost, Myst V's going to be awesome. Keep up the good work, Cyanists.

G0L4
03-29-2005, 01:42 AM
I just wanted to add to this realtime versus prerendered theme that a parallell can be found in the console-game resident evil series. It resently switched from pre-rendered (though 3rd person) graphics to a new and original 3rd person realtime 3d perspective. I am very impressed with the way thay have handled things. When in "shooting mode", instead of the hero being in the middle and covering up for the view you have an "over the shoulder" perspective which is great. The hero is also placed out on the left side of the widescreen perspective. It becomes very immersive and movie-like.

I think a similar move could be perfect to brush up the myst series (when in "investigate the mechanism" mode). The 3rd person placed out on the left side with his/her hand reaching out to touch things when the mouse button is clicked I think would work great. Of course I would much rather ponder myst enigmas than shoot zombies in my spare time so hopefully this will become a better game than Revelation.

Dark Screen
03-29-2005, 07:58 AM
Myst V is 3d so I'm 99% sure it will be better than Myst IV: Revelation.

mszv
03-29-2005, 09:07 AM
Well, I don't know about "better" (though I love 3D), maybe "different". I just happen to really like Myst IV.

I am so glad that Cyan, the originators of the series, gets to end the series, and that the game will be in realtime 3D.

For what it't worth, I consider Uru to be part of the Myst series. But, if you want to say "spinoff", that's OK with me too!

sparks455alive
04-09-2005, 02:49 AM
hello, first post and probably not my last, here goes...please correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Yeesha write Uru, after her father(Atrus) finished teaching her the "art"?

Mysthints
04-09-2005, 12:05 PM
Er...Yeesha didn't write "Uru", that's just the name of the game (it means "underground city" if I remember right). However, Yeesha did write Relto, your home Age in Uru. She cast aside many of the old rules of the Guild of Writers, enabling her to do what many previously considered impossible.