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Scharnhorst1943
02-27-2007, 02:44 PM
I have been running IL2 with a GeForce 5500 video card. I am wanting to upgrade, and was wondering what the difference in performance would be between a GeForce 7600 card versus a GeForce 7800 card. Would the berformance boost be significant, or are they fairly comparable? Actually, the main reason for upgrading was to inhance my choppy SH3 performance, but I am trying to decide which card to go with.

I was thinking that I would save a little money and go with the 7600, but I wanted some informed opinions.

Xiolablu3
02-27-2007, 03:09 PM
Both are good cards and more than ample for both games.

You will see a big improvement with either from a 5500 which is a poor card. (All the 5xxx series were bad cards, I have a 5900 ultra which is the only card from the series which is fair to middle, but the PIxel shader 2.0 support on all the 5xxx series is unusable, its appalling. It was a con for them to say they supported shader 2.0)

WHat is the price difference for you between the two cards?

VW-IceFire
02-27-2007, 03:42 PM
The best solution here might actually be the 7900GS which I think tends to have a MSRP around $229 (can probably be found for cheaper). Its a better performer than the slightly cheaper 7600 series but without the price tag of the 7900GT or 7950GT. Its a middle of the road sweet spot by most reviews I've read.

JG6_Oddball
02-27-2007, 04:12 PM
"A chain is as strong as it's weakist link" what CPU,MB nad RAM are you running?
S!

Scharnhorst1943
02-27-2007, 04:25 PM
I am running a
AMD 2800+
2.08Ghz
728MB RAM
GeForce5500 graphics card.

I found a 7600 for $130 and free shipping as apposed to $209 for a 7800. So I can save almost $100 by going to the 7600. I am wondering is the extra $100 really going to make $100 worth of difference?

Bear in mind I need a AGP card, so that might affect things a little bit.

Xiolablu3
02-27-2007, 04:36 PM
I would say that the 7600 would be fine for that system mate.

The money that you will save, put away for a new 64 bit system next year.

I bought a Athlon 64 3700+ for 35 yesterday. I have a motherboard coming from ebay that was 25, I can use my existing PC3200 RAM, so I just need a PCI Express Gfx card, for around 80-100. - I have a 64 bit system for around 160.

Keep the money you save from the Gfx card and upgrade to 64 bit (Athlon 64 if you want a bargain, or Core2 duo if you want very fast performance) and PCI Express next year. Your 7600 will do just fine until then http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Now that COre2Duos are out, normal Athlon 64's are absolute bargains, with 3500+ for around 35 and 4000+ for 50. These will be about double the speed of our Athlon Xp chips. YOu just cant beat them for bang-for-buck.

Scharnhorst1943
02-27-2007, 04:43 PM
Thank for the quick and valuable advice! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Now I know which one to buy. I just have to wait for it to ship http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

I guess it is what I deserve for being impatient.

dugong
02-27-2007, 06:16 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
The best solution here might actually be the 7900GS which I think tends to have a MSRP around $229 (can probably be found for cheaper). Its a better performer than the slightly cheaper 7600 series but without the price tag of the 7900GT or 7950GT. Its a middle of the road sweet spot by most reviews I've read.

I got my BFG OC 7900 GS for about $149 after rebate at New Egg. The card rocks.

Xiolablu3
02-27-2007, 06:19 PM
If you can get the 7900GS for only 15 dollars more, Scharnhorst, you may be better off buying that card?

Check the P&P isnt adding alot too tho. I always list prices WITH P&P, after all, its costing you that much, no sense in conning yourself that its cheaper.

horseback
02-27-2007, 06:37 PM
I got the 7900GT 256Mb card for under $250 at a place called PCClub last November, and we're seeing them for even less around here (Southern Cal) these days.

Shop around before you buy.

cheers

horseback

Scharnhorst1943
02-27-2007, 09:09 PM
Maybe this is a dumb question, but are PCI and AGP compatible or the same thing?

Because I need an AGP card and not ATI. However, I don't know if ATI and PCI express go hand in hand, or am I mixing it all up? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Scharnhorst1943
02-27-2007, 09:13 PM
This is the card I was thinking of getting:

GeForce AGP 7600 (http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.asp?sku=202944516&SearchEngine=NexTag&SearchTerm=202944516&Type=PE&Category=Comp&Gad=0&dcaid=15894)

There is not something horibly wrong with this brand is there? It was the Cheapest 7600 card I could find online, but It is as good as any other, right?

Xiolablu3
02-27-2007, 09:40 PM
ATI is a brand name, like Nvidia. There should be no reason why you cannot buy an ATI card, their cards are just as good as Nvidia.

PCI,AGP and PCI Express are buses.

PCI is very old, no motherboards use PCI graphics cards anymore. although all motgherboards have PCI slots for things like sound cards and modems. If you look under your AGP slot (always the top slot, offset a little from the others and usually brown but sometimes red) there will be 4 or 5 PCI slots for various things.

AGP was a replacement for PCI slots for your graphics cards because PCI was not fast enough. This is hte slot you have.

PCI Express is the new replacement for AGP and is even faster, although at the moment not many games will actually see any benefit from it. You have to have your graphics settings on very very high to see any benefit from PCI Express and be playing a very demanding game. It will be a while before PCI Express slots are used properly.

For each of these, think of PCI as a thin hose pipe, AGP as a normal hose pipe, and PCI Express as a wide hose pipe. The graphics data is water. PCI/the thin hose pipe can only fit so much water down it at once, meaning that there is a bottleneck and as such its slow.

AGP is a wider pipe, and is wide enough to fit todays games graphics data through it with no real slowdown or bottleneck.

PCI Express is a very wide hose pipe, but games do not flow water/graphics data fast enough to fill even AGP, never mind this very wide pipe yet, so there is not much benefit from having PCI Express right now. Make sure you get it on your next upgrade tho.


XFX are a good make, you should have no problems at all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Make sure you use either the supplied drivers or the Nvidia reference forceware drivers. Update your drivers often.

VW-IceFire
02-27-2007, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by Scharnhorst1943:
Maybe this is a dumb question, but are PCI and AGP compatible or the same thing?

Because I need an AGP card and not ATI. However, I don't know if ATI and PCI express go hand in hand, or am I mixing it all up? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif
Mixing it up mate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AGP and PCI are connections on your computers motherboard. AGP used to be all the rage and PCI before it. Now to make things complicated the PCI Express is the latest and greatest.

nVidia (lower case n, upper case V http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) and ATI are graphics card makers that compete for dominance in the 3D market. Both make cards for AGP and PCI Express.

You can get 7900GS's for AGP without any trouble. Infact they are usually the same price or $10 more at the worst.

Scharnhorst1943
02-27-2007, 10:42 PM
Alright. I got it now.

I just needed someone to explain what was what. Thanks for the info and clarifacation.

Scharnhorst1943
02-27-2007, 10:57 PM
Well, here is the one I got. I decided to go with the 512MB instead of the 256.

http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.asp?sku=202922179&Sea...mp&Gad=0&dcaid=15894 (http://www.buy.com/retail/Product.asp?sku=202922179&SearchEngine=NexTag&SearchTerm=202922179&Type=PE&Category=Comp&Gad=0&dcaid=15894)

Hopefully it will turn out alright.

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-28-2007, 08:08 AM
Even though the 7600GS doesn't have the same horsepower as the 7800 or 7900, without upgrading your processor or RAM, this card will run just fine. Your CPU will likely still be a bottleneck.


TB

WOLFMondo
02-28-2007, 08:20 AM
Current best bang for buck card is an ATI X1900XT. Nvidia 7900GTX's are also good bang for buck but I went through three of them and they all had issues with OGL games like IL2.

You won't be dissapointed with the 7900GS but beware, it is the budget version of that chip so it will not last you as long as a 7900GTX or GT.

Personally Id' get the ATI X1900XT though, price+performance.

Chris0382
02-28-2007, 08:24 AM
it is the budget version of that chip so it will not last you as long as a 7900GTX or GT.

Couldnt be any more accurate than this statement

Red_lightning1
02-28-2007, 10:34 AM
I have been a nVidia fanboi since the Geforce 2 days but I have to agree with Wolf.

I will be upgrading my GFX card in the next few weeks. I was going to save up for the whole core duo/pci-e bells and whistles system parts to go with vista/Dx-10 but since vista will take at least a year to iron out plus waiting on the gaming industry using DX-10 (BlackShark IIRC will be DX9 as well as BoB and fighterOps) I decided to upgrade my card to give my system a bit of oomph until then.

After reading the horror stories about flakey 7800/7900's and the countless bugs with the drivers in sims such as lock-on I was dreading getting a nVidia again but a ray of sunshine appeared when I heard of the AGP version of the X1950.

Tests carried out by Toms Hardware on a New card/old system containing a XP 2500+ strengthened my position on the change to the ATI card. No point on nuking my perfectly good system (P4 3.2 EE @ 3.8/ 2 gig RAM) ATM when it will perform that bit better (at least until Vista/DX-10 matter) that it does now, though no complaints with this 6800 Ultra. It has served me well the past 2 years.

So in conclusion (and I can't believe I'm actually going to say this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif) go for the ATI. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

OlavFalco
02-28-2007, 11:43 AM
I have a 7600GT and it handles pretty much anything you throw at it on 1024 x 768 with full AA and Ansiotropic filtering, both SH3 and IL2 look bloody wonderful on it.

And for the price you really cannot go wrong mate!

Scharnhorst1943
02-28-2007, 12:29 PM
Originally posted by OlavFalco:
I have a 7600GT and it handles pretty much anything you throw at it on 1024 x 768 with full AA and Ansiotropic filtering, both SH3 and IL2 look bloody wonderful on it.

And for the price you really cannot go wrong mate!

What kind of performance do you get whith options like 3d gunners on ships and perfect water? Do you get perfect water and does it run smothely?

Is my system so decrepid and old that I will get perfect water with the card, but have it be choppy because of my computer and not the card?

just wondering.

badatit
03-01-2007, 12:33 AM
Sorry I didnt get here sooner.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143045
This is three times the card. Actually more, due the fact that the core and mem speeds have been bumped up. Performance falls somewhere between the 7800GT and the 7800GTX.

It does 256-bit transfer rate @32GB/s (these numbers are for a card running stock speeds)
Compared to the one you
listed 128-bit transfer rate @12.8GB/s

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/132
Note the important role that the memory interface plays. A high memeory transfer rate is the key to performance.
Steve_V put this link in a thread some time ago. I refer to it often.

Scharnhorst1943
03-02-2007, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by badatit:
Sorry I didnt get here sooner.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16814143045
This is three times the card. Actually more, due the fact that the core and mem speeds have been bumped up. Performance falls somewhere between the 7800GT and the 7800GTX.

It does 256-bit transfer rate @32GB/s (these numbers are for a card running stock speeds)
Compared to the one you
listed 128-bit transfer rate @12.8GB/s

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/132
Note the important role that the memory interface plays. A high memeory transfer rate is the key to performance.
Steve_V put this link in a thread some time ago. I refer to it often.

Nuts! I tried to cancell my order, but it already shipped. I am looking at the unopened box now. I can either keep this card, or return it to get the 6800.

Before I do, what are the main differences in performance between these two cards. I kind of looked at that data chart link, but I don't fully understand it. Could someone please explain what all that means and exactly what the difference in speed, graphics, exc...

badatit
03-03-2007, 07:46 PM
Didnt mean to leave you hanging, I've been out of town.

Type of Memory DDR2 or DDR3
DDR2 uses 2.5 volts
DDR3 uses 1.8 volts (some as low as 1.5volts)
DDR3 draws less power and generates less heat.
Plus, it scales better (in case you decide to overclock).
As far as stock performance goes, you probally wouldnt notice a comparable difference...between indentical cards sporting DDR2 or DDR3 respectively.

The difference in the interface has little to do with speed.
But allows for more graphical data to flow.

If your still setting on that card , go ahead and open it up (you made a good choice).
With your system spec's, the performance between the two cards is probally a coin toss.
Enjoy

More links to looka at
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/02/06/the_best_gaming_...the_money/page7.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/02/06/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/page7.html)
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6153327/index.html
http://www.computing.net/gaming/wwwboard/forum/7482.html

Scharnhorst1943
03-03-2007, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by badatit:
Didnt mean to leave you hanging, I've been out of town.

Type of Memory DDR2 or DDR3
DDR2 uses 2.5 volts
DDR3 uses 1.8 volts (some as low as 1.5volts)
DDR3 draws less power and generates less heat.
Plus, it scales better (in case you decide to overclock).
As far as stock performance goes, you probally wouldnt notice a comparable difference...between indentical cards sporting DDR2 or DDR3 respectively.

The difference in the interface has little to do with speed.
But allows for more graphical data to flow.

If your still setting on that card , go ahead and open it up (you made a good choice).
With your system spec's, the performance between the two cards is probally a coin toss.
Enjoy

More links to looka at
http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/02/06/the_best_gaming_...the_money/page7.html (http://www.tomshardware.com/2007/02/06/the_best_gaming_video_cards_for_the_money/page7.html)
http://www.gamespot.com/features/6153327/index.html
http://www.computing.net/gaming/wwwboard/forum/7482.html

badatit, thank you immensely for the links, as well as the advice. You have helped me out greatly. Also you have given me something to consider when buying my future computer.