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View Full Version : NOOOOO! SHIV is RUINED! -RUINED I TELL YOU!



JU88
11-09-2006, 01:53 PM
Well for me its ruined anyway.
According to people over at subsim the devs have confirmed that once again there will be no AI submarines (in SHIV)

Whilst I appreciate that they have tight deadlines to meet I still wonder...
why oh why is it so hard to write some AI for subs? Its not like its never been done before (SH 1 & 2 spring to mind)
It also means that once again modders will have no way to add other subs in the game later, unless they give them ship AI and 'Virtual torpeedos' like SH3..
Did they learn nothing from SH3?

So once again we play as the only submarine in the whole wide world.
Well thats just made me a whole lot less bothered about rushing out to buy SHIV.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Bitterly dissapointed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/sig-1.jpg

A 'must have' feature
Fully operational AI subs are as important as AI ships and planes -They were there-. Please dont repeat SH3's biggest Short coming in SHIV.
Thank you

JU88
11-09-2006, 01:53 PM
Well for me its ruined anyway.
According to people over at subsim the devs have confirmed that once again there will be no AI submarines (in SHIV)

Whilst I appreciate that they have tight deadlines to meet I still wonder...
why oh why is it so hard to write some AI for subs? Its not like its never been done before (SH 1 & 2 spring to mind)
It also means that once again modders will have no way to add other subs in the game later, unless they give them ship AI and 'Virtual torpeedos' like SH3..
Did they learn nothing from SH3?

So once again we play as the only submarine in the whole wide world.
Well thats just made me a whole lot less bothered about rushing out to buy SHIV.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Bitterly dissapointed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/sig-1.jpg

A 'must have' feature
Fully operational AI subs are as important as AI ships and planes -They were there-. Please dont repeat SH3's biggest Short coming in SHIV.
Thank you

madsarmy
11-10-2006, 01:31 AM
I personally wont be in a hurry to buy SHIV. I get the feeling it wont be leaps ahead of what we have now.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/tommybomb/IL2sig.jpg?t=1169195545
Even the Hun makes a pretty poor fighter with his head buried in a handkerchief!
Captain G. Mainwaring
http://www.dadsarmy.co.uk/

madmaxr4
11-10-2006, 01:41 AM
In the interviews they tell about missions with multiple targets and the better graphic. I dont see any mention to the add of others compartments or any of the things that we asked in the wish list.

I feel the game will be a lot similar to SH3. Just
a better graphic and the pacific theatre http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
I hope they will show me im wrong.

Dietrich-34.F
11-10-2006, 01:42 AM
I'm sure the reason for no AI subs is that of AI torpedoes in SH3. And the reason for no AI torpedoes in SH3 whether from Allied Subs or Swordfish/Avenger torpedo bombers is that they kill instantly.

There was one battle between a british sub and a german U-boat during WWII, and the brits got a torpedo hit on the U-Boat. The Norwegians recently found the two separate halves on the sea bed.

SH3 (and SH4) are games, and the majority of players (with the notable exception of the esteemed and honourable JU88) would be dismayed to receive a message on the screen with no warning saying "U-Boat destroyed - Later, the enemy reports that one of their submarines has sunk a sub/u-boat in the area.".

respectfully,<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-- Dietrich
http://www.34thflotilla.com/flotilla/dietrich.jpg (http://www.34thflotilla.com)

Josef_Reiter
11-10-2006, 02:21 AM
Ok, I give, I might as well pose this question since were all moaning here... did they at least fix how we die, instead of going to U-boat destroyed screen?

JU88
11-10-2006, 07:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dietrich-34.F:
I'm sure the reason for no AI subs is that of AI torpedoes in SH3. And the reason for no AI torpedoes in SH3 whether from Allied Subs or Swordfish/Avenger torpedo bombers is that they kill instantly.

There was one battle between a british sub and a german U-boat during WWII, and the brits got a torpedo hit on the U-Boat. The Norwegians recently found the two separate halves on the sea bed.

SH3 (and SH4) are games, and the majority of players (with the notable exception of the esteemed and honourable JU88) would be dismayed to receive a message on the screen with no warning saying "U-Boat destroyed - Later, the enemy reports that one of their submarines has sunk a sub/u-boat in the area.".

respectfully, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see your point, but think about SH3 a minute...

Mines

Fog + high Time compressions

both cause INSTANT death.

hosile torpeedos would be no worse than these.
I think they didnt have AI torpedos because they didnt have time/ couldnt be bothered, and that the 'instant death' scenario was just a lame excuse.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/sig-1.jpg

A 'must have' feature
Fully operational AI subs are as important as AI ships and planes -They were there-. Please dont repeat SH3's biggest Short coming in SHIV.
Thank you

Goose_Green
11-10-2006, 09:34 AM
Reading these comments I'm starting to get suspicious of the whole game. It may appear that the only thing they will do is spruce up the graphics and sound and not really extended the game to what SH3 was missing, like the AI subs, extra compartments to wander about and interact in or any of the other things the community has cried out for.

It makes no sense when the excellent game of IL2 can improve over time while the underwater cousin seems to sink into the abyss.

I really hope this game can outlive expectations otherwise I will still keep patrolling in the Atlantic and not the Pacific. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Goose_Green/sig1copy.jpg

Dietrich-34.F
11-10-2006, 12:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by JU88:
I see your point, but think about SH3 a minute...

Mines

Fog + high Time compressions

both cause INSTANT death.

hosile torpeedos would be no worse than these.
I think they didnt have AI torpedos because they didnt have time/ couldnt be bothered, and that the 'instant death' scenario was just a lame excuse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Excuse, perhaps, but "lame" excuse is probably a bit harsh. The same went for "SQUID" (or whatever that late-war anti-u-boat weapon was called). I explicitly remember them speaking about it in a pre-release interview with the devs.

Your other "instant death" scenarios are true enough. But in the case of fog, you can go deep and stay quiet.

With mines, it is a shame that you have no intelligence to figure out where they "might" be. So, you have a valid point there.

Time compression is a really nasty one. I agree. And yes, combined with fog it can be instant death.

Still, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but given that SH4 is a commercial enterprise, they will be wary about spending developer effort on something that they think will have little return in the mass games market.

In an ideal world, there would be "check boxes" on the difficulty screen.

[ X ] Mines
[ X ] Enemy subs

and the time compression would drop back to x1 more effectively.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

-- Dietrich
http://www.34thflotilla.com/flotilla/dietrich.jpg (http://www.34thflotilla.com)

Hoatee
11-10-2006, 01:22 PM
The impression I get of SHIV is that it is going to be SH3 set in the Pacific. And the only difference (but a nonetheless important one to some) will be is that you get to sail for the Allies. It's not surprising considering the choice for an SHIV over the more popular Destroyer Command 2. But is strange considering that the IL2 series and SH series (yikes,even DC!) is owned by the same company. Perhaps it indeed is all the fault of 'these marketing types' who appear to have a lesser understanding of war and politics and history. These are not games gentlemen. There is much more money to be made if history was respected a bit more.

Nevertheless, the disappointment I express above will not prevent me from buying SHIV. If one enjoys playing SHIII, there is no reason to suspect that one will not enjoy playing SHIV. It's just a pity that more is not done to combine the games somehow into a virtual WWII arena.

JU88
11-10-2006, 01:48 PM
@Dietrich-34

I dont think AI subs would need to be optional for the novice players...

When mentioning AI subs (hostile ones) People automatically visualise being torpedoed out of the blue by a sneaky submerged sub..
The reality is (much like your player sub,) enemy subs will travel on the surface 95% of the time and dive when they spot an enemy (in this case thats you)

So it will only beable to spot you when you can spot it also, so its unlikley you or watch crew would miss it before it slips below the waves. Call it a 50/50 chance over who spots who first.
Then once its submerged, its got to get into a decent attack position to have any hope of hitting you with torpedos.

And lastly your watch crew should be able to see and report the incoming torpeedo wakes, possibly giving you enough time to manouver out of their path - we all know only too well that torpedos only work when the victim doesnt see them coming.

So in practice - AI subs would more likley prove easier targets for you, that you would for them.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/junkers88/sig-1.jpg

A 'must have' feature
Fully operational AI subs are as important as AI ships and planes -They were there-. Please dont repeat SH3's biggest Short coming in SHIV.
Thank you

GerritJ9
11-10-2006, 04:01 PM
Dead WRONG if you believe that IL2FBPF is owned by UBI- they do NOT! IL2FBPF is actually owned and developed by a Russian company called 1C and UBI only have the contract to distribute it outside of the Former Soviet Union. Distribution/sales in the FSU are handled by 1C. See 1C's website www.1c.ru (http://www.1c.ru)

Ju88- if it becomes possible for AI subs to be added at some stage, Dutch subs should be added first. There were NO RN subs in the Far East for quite some time after the Pacific War broke out and in the early stages the Dutch subs were far more successful than the US subs were. Unfortunately about half of the modern Dutch subs were lost while defending the Malay Barrier- O16, O20, K.XVI, KXVII, K.XVIII and the obsolete K.VII.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The KNIL is dead. Long live the KNIL!

3.JG51_Molders
11-10-2006, 07:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GerritJ9:
Dead WRONG if you believe that IL2FBPF is owned by UBI- they do NOT! IL2FBPF is actually owned and developed by a Russian company called 1C and UBI only have the contract to distribute it outside of the Former Soviet Union. Distribution/sales in the FSU are handled by 1C. See 1C's website www.1c.ru (http://www.1c.ru)

Ju88- if it becomes possible for AI subs to be added at some stage, Dutch subs should be added first. There were NO RN subs in the Far East for quite some time after the Pacific War broke out and in the early stages the Dutch subs were far more successful than the US subs were. Unfortunately about half of the modern Dutch subs were lost while defending the Malay Barrier- O16, O20, K.XVI, KXVII, K.XVIII and the obsolete K.VII. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know its owned by Maddox Games but I said it is "marketed" by Ubisoft.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Kapitan Zur See Jager
Kommandant, Gruppe Leiser-Jager, 8th Flotilla (http://8thflotilla.bravehost.com/)
http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2228/sh3signature11awb8yz8.jpg
Leutnant Zur See Oskar Harmann (http://www.geocities.com/jager_sh3/Oskar_Harmann.html), U-11, 30th Flotilla, Constanza @ 100%.
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madsarmy
11-11-2006, 03:42 AM
You don't have to tell Molders about IL2 history.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/tommybomb/IL2sig.jpg?t=1169195545
Even the Hun makes a pretty poor fighter with his head buried in a handkerchief!
Captain G. Mainwaring
http://www.dadsarmy.co.uk/