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View Full Version : A community poll on 6DoF and how you fly the sim..



Bearcat99
02-20-2011, 11:27 AM
Mysticpuma made a poll at 1C more as a request to TD and a poll of the overall community..

Could 6-DoF ever be available in 4.2 if players could forgive small graphic glitches (http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showthread.php?t=18722)

In that vein I am asking basically the same question here but with a few added twists. Now it is a given that if all the cockpits have to be repainted we more than likely will not see 6DoF implemented in the sim any time soon if at all, it is just too much work. But I'd like to get some opinions.. also on if you even use TIR or some other head tracking and if you do use it.. have you tried it in the mod form. I would also like to know just how you fly the sim, modded, unmodded.. do you fly more of one than the other etc?

In your post should you choose to, please state your answers to the polls if you have no problem doing so.

arthursmedley
02-20-2011, 12:40 PM
6DoF enabled in the stock game? Oh yes please TD!!! The main reason I started out using mods was to enable this. Are there gaps, holes, glitches? I've never really noticed. I've spent lots of time getting my Trackir 4 set up correctly and I fly almost entirely on-line.

I can't see how 6DoF is some sort of cheat as I've seen a few claim. I'm too busy looking out the back seeing who is filling me full of lead to find any fleeting gaps in the cockpit floor!

Also, I think trackir use is grossly underestimated and if enabled by TD would do more to unify the community than anything else I can think of.

KG26_Alpha
02-20-2011, 12:58 PM
No

I sense some paranoia here about 6DoF

Its totally unrealistic.

JtD
02-20-2011, 01:07 PM
You can sum this complex poll up for me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Would you rather have

<STRIKE> a) 6DoF</STRIKE>
or
b) something useful?

I mean, what % of the players is wearing silly hats when sitting in front of the PC in the first place? 1? 5? Maybe even 10?

W32Blaster
02-20-2011, 01:20 PM
I mean, what % of the players is using silly specialised Hardware like rudder and hotas sitting in front of the PC in the first place? 1? 5? Maybe even 10?

And that 10 % are freaks, since it is possible to fly with keyboard and mouse.

Wake up, its 2011 and we have Hotas and rudder and TIR and we want to use it to get maximum gameplay and immersion!

arthursmedley
02-20-2011, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by JtD:


I mean, what % of the players is wearing silly hats when sitting in front of the PC in the first place? 1? 5? Maybe even 10?

Well I can think of about 35 in my squad alone. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Erkki_M
02-20-2011, 01:44 PM
I'd like to have it the way its done in AHII: buttons/mouse for those who dont have head tracking devices, and fairly restricted. No pushing head out of the cockpit while you turn 4-5G...

skarden
02-20-2011, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by JtD:


I mean, what % of the players is wearing silly hats when sitting in front of the PC in the first place? 1? 5? Maybe even 10?

Surely he's fishing?

TheFamilyMan
02-20-2011, 01:58 PM
A useful sidebar poll:

Is the 6dof mod the primary reason you started using mods?

My answer: yes!

thefruitbat
02-20-2011, 02:01 PM
me too.

T_O_A_D
02-20-2011, 02:02 PM
6Dof is the initial reason I even tried the Hacked versions of the game.

The 109 had cliping in the rear wing root for years, without 6dof, and it took the modding community to address that.

So what, if we have a bit of clipping on other aircraft at this point.

And from my experience, I've found no clipping that aids in my situation awareness, just untidy rendering.

Heck I noticed yesterday after all these years the FW190 struts shadow is disconnected from the aircraft shadow. This game isn't perfect, and very long on the tooth. So whats the difference at this point.

From what I understand, a large majority of TD started out in this venture they now have as part of the contributing Modder community anyway.

I say they should step up and fix it, the best they can. If nothing more than to incorporate it, as is into the stock version.

Olegs next game, with the experience gained from IL2 can be perfect. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

M2morris
02-20-2011, 02:08 PM
I say put it in there and let the whiners whine while we work out any glitches.



(It is the year 2036)

Topic: IL2 and retina software glitch.


"I am having trouble with my TIR 12. It seems that the retina-scan 7DOF software is acting up because when I move my eyes around nothing happens. When I turn my head to the left I can look and still lean my head out the cockpit and put my face into the propeller blast,but still there is no eye-tracking going on, only head movements are being detected. I have tried re-installing, but no luck. Does anybody have any idea whats wrong.?"

Mysticpuma2003
02-20-2011, 02:18 PM
Cheers BC, I was going to link to my Poll, but you got here first, much appreciated.

I asked the initial question because it just seems crazy that TIR has been around for years, simmers love to use it (those who have it), or even use a Webcam tracking solution and yet, even though it exists in the "Voldermort-he who shall not be named" MODS, it seems that requesting it is like saying "I'm just going to buy a Broomstick and Hat at the local store in Salem!"

Also, the option you added re. excellent Mods I agree with totally. Some of the developments in P-51's have been brilliant as have the cockpits in the P-47 (hang your head in shame stock '47). Also smoke and fire effects (HolyGrail Plutonium take a bow) as-well as tracer now ricocheting and smoke from tracer along with smoke from gun pots behind the wing. All subtle but totally, totally immersive!

I know MODS are frowned on by purists, but by voicing an opinion in a Poll at-least those that we consider viable can get a possible chance of being added to future patches.

If you look at my thread at the 1C forums, you will see that Bearcat has put some great points forward, including the fact that we don't need a 'Gazillion' 109/190 variants, the stock game is the unifying IL2 install, but additions such as tracking, tracer bounce, smoke effects, 109 wing-root fixes, 190 Bar fixes, etc,etc, should surely get a chance of being included as they have been long-standing irritations that can be fixed if the "One Small Step for IL2 Users, one Giant leap for 1C/TD" can be taken.......but I don't need to land a P-47 on the moon just yet!

Cheers, MP

WTE_Galway
02-20-2011, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by W32Blaster:
I mean, what % of the players is using silly specialised Hardware like rudder and hotas sitting in front of the PC in the first place? 1? 5? Maybe even 10?

And that 10 % are freaks, since it is possible to fly with keyboard and mouse.

Wake up, its 2011 and we have Hotas and rudder and TIR and we want to use it to get maximum gameplay and immersion!

I fly with my wii mote http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

tomtheyak
02-20-2011, 03:54 PM
Originally posted by KG26_Alpha:
No

I sense some paranoia here about 6DoF

Its totally unrealistic.

You flown small cockpit a/c Alpha?

I'm guessing not cos then you'd realise what your saying is frankly wrong.

Straps can be loosened, and whilst a good tight lap belt is a priority to keep you in your seat, loosening shoulder straps is a must to be able to peer round the framing or back over the tail, lean forward to adjust instruments - particularly the Spitfire, where the compass bowl is situated down in front of the joystick - IIRC the spitfire had a two length shoulder strap adjustment, one tight the other allowing more freedom of movement for just such eventualities. Indeed, more than one Spit pilot forgetting to tighten it found the gunsite was the first thing to remind him of his oversight in the event of a sudden stop!

Bearcat99
02-20-2011, 07:58 PM
Originally posted by Mysticpuma2003:
Cheers BC, I was going to link to my Poll, but you got here first, much appreciated.
I asked the initial question because it just seems crazy that TIR has been around for years, simmers love to use it (those who have it), or even use a Webcam tracking solution and yet, even though it exists in the "Voldermort-he who shall not be named" MODS, it seems that requesting it is like saying "I'm just going to buy a Broomstick and Hat at the local store in Salem!"

Also, the option you added re. excellent Mods I agree with totally. Some of the developments in P-51's have been brilliant as have the cockpits in the P-47 (hang your head in shame stock '47). Also smoke and fire effects (HolyGrail Plutonium take a bow) as-well as tracer now ricocheting and smoke from tracer along with smoke from gun pots behind the wing. All subtle but totally, totally immersive!

I know MODS are frowned on by purists, but by voicing an opinion in a Poll at-least those that we consider viable can get a possible chance of being added to future patches. If you look at my thread at the 1C forums, you will see that Bearcat has put some great points forward, including the fact that we don't need a 'Gazillion' 109/190 variants, the stock game is the unifying IL2 install, but additions such as tracking, tracer bounce, smoke effects, 109 wing-root fixes, 190 Bar fixes, etc,etc, should surely get a chance of being included as they have been long-standing irritations that can be fixed if the "One Small Step for IL2 Users, one Giant leap for 1C/TD" can be taken.......but I don't need to land a P-47 on the moon just yet!
Cheers, MP

Not a problem Neil.. and I agree with everything you said. Unlike some others in this thread I am not going to **** their choice to not use mods for whatever reason they have done so. That is their prerogative but let us be clear about one indisputable fact.

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">MODS HAVE BEEN MORE BOON THAN BANE TO THIS SIM.</span>

That is a fact. People can say what they want and the purists can still go on and on about things they know nothing about (If you have never tried mods then you really can't render an informed opinion as to their veracity or lack therof..), but the fact remains that there have been more great improvements to this sim as a result of it's being hacked than any of us expected when this all jumped off.

The fact that:

A)We never did see the rampant cheating online that was expected by most of the folks who were anti mod initially, myself included.

B)Some of the mods were actually good functional improvements to the sim, like the radiator bi directional mod (addressed by TD by putting the radiator on an axis), the minimap mod, one which removed that hokey frame and another which allowed for bidirectional zooming on the minimap and the briefing map), the animated flag mod.. (I think that is one of the most underrated mods out.. but it is great and it doesn't hit the resources at all), the skinmod which allowed you to set default skins accordingly.. and to this day I just love it when I can fly overhome plate and see rows of Redtail Mustangs parked on the tarmac, the splashscreen mod, all the ones Neil mentioned.. and I could go on for a bit.

C)Team Diadalos is made up of many former modders... Zuti's MDS mod (one of the greatest of all the mods if you ask me.. I can't tell you how many times folks have wished they could do what Zuti now makes possible ..) has been incorporated into the sim for crying out loud..

.... says a lot about the impact that mods have had on this sim. I am glad that it was so positive and that my personal misgivings about mods based upon past experience were proven unfounded.


I sincerely believe that if there is to be any unity .. or let me rephrase that... the best chance for any unity in this sim must and should come from 1C/TD.. The mod community will only be able to unify but so much. At some point it is going to get ridiculous. How many variants of aircraft do you need before it gets just totally unmanageable. Right now in the UP2.01 we have 53 variants of the 109 and 31 variants of the 190.. (as opposed to the 15/9 versions in the stock sim ... that means that there are 38 modded 109s.. and 22 modded 190s... ) I would be willing to wager that if 1C/TD were to seriously consider implementing more of the already existing mods into the sim particularly some of the ones mentioned by Neil & myself.. and perhaps a few of the modded planes.. like some of the ones that have few variants in the stock sim, like some of the Japanese planes or American planes.. and a few others.. more people would fly stock.. or at the very lest the stock sim could become the standard which everyone would go by. There will be those who will always fly modded.. there will be those who will always turn up their noses at mods.. regardless of the facts... but 1C/TD is in a unique position right now to really bring this sim around. I hope that they all see this opportunity and use it for what it is. The 6Dof could be tightened up a bit in the stock sim.. but it needs to be implemented.

PB4Tazman
02-20-2011, 08:03 PM
I wish that we could get the sounds in the stock game upgraded to what the mods have shown is possible. When I do try to fly the stock version, I find the generic engine sounds really negatively effect the sense immersion for me. Between 6DOF and upgraded sounds, I would vote for sounds.

Just my 2cents!

Cheers,

PB4Tazman

AngeloEvs
02-20-2011, 08:21 PM
Voted 'yes' for 6DOF Stock.
A small handfull of people will say NO for reasons that lack any substance and, laughably, some based on the premise that it isn't 'realistic'. Dear oh dear, the sim is riddled with features that are totally 'unrealistic' even in 'full realism'.
The good news for these guys is that they can stick with 2DOF in CoD, the bad news is that it supports 6DOF and I know which I will be using!

PhantomKira
02-20-2011, 08:50 PM
Have never used 6DOF, would love to see it as a stock option, preferably glitch free, or at least reduced. More aircraft in stock? Of course! What a silly question. At the moment, I fly mostly modded (4.09), some stock (4.10).

Ministry of Silly Hats, anyone? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif (Not for me, I'm a headset type.)

RSS-Martin
02-20-2011, 09:41 PM
Well not going to say what I voted for in the poll as I am sure I will get a bashing from some.
On the other hand this topic is almost out dated with CoD at the door step. For me as of release date even though I do like the PTO very much it will be only CoD then, as I hate those frankenplanes, very few really well made mod planes, but those one can count on one hand.
As to CoD I very much hope critical parts will be locked so that amature tampering is not possible. But I guess that is wishful thinking as some will just think the harder to break the more of a challenge to do exactly that.

Lurch1962
02-20-2011, 10:13 PM
I currently fly modded only, mainly because 6DoF is so VITALLY important to situational awareness. From an aesthetic standpoint I don't greatly mind any of the current see-through polygons, although it does slightly distress me that in some planes there are such large gaps toward the rear that I'm enjoying an unrealistic advantage in visibility. But again, this is all secondary to the ability to be able to see around the cockpit framing, not to mention the other little benefits afforded.

And yes, I have a whole slew of other mods on the go, too!

Where any existing mod is demonstrably better/more realistic, I do believe it should be incorporated.

Bearcat99
02-21-2011, 07:09 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Well not going to say what I voted for in the poll as I am sure I will get a bashing from some.
On the other hand this topic is almost out dated with CoD at the door step. For me as of release date even though I do like the PTO very much it will be only CoD then, as I hate those frankenplanes, very few really well made mod planes, but those one can count on one hand.
As to CoD I very much hope critical parts will be locked so that amature tampering is not possible. But I guess that is wishful thinking as some will just think the harder to break the more of a challenge to do exactly that.

I am not talking about any of the frankenplanes.. Only variants of planes that are in the sim and are well made.. Perhaps the F-86 & Mig 15 as well..

b34856
02-21-2011, 07:16 AM
I'm kind of confused.... What is "6DoF"?

Bearcat99
02-21-2011, 07:21 AM
Originally posted by b34856:
I'm kind of confused.... What is "6DoF"?

6DoF (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frKBONgBpDY&feature=related)

RSS-Martin
02-21-2011, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Well not going to say what I voted for in the poll as I am sure I will get a bashing from some.
On the other hand this topic is almost out dated with CoD at the door step. For me as of release date even though I do like the PTO very much it will be only CoD then, as I hate those frankenplanes, very few really well made mod planes, but those one can count on one hand.
As to CoD I very much hope critical parts will be locked so that amature tampering is not possible. But I guess that is wishful thinking as some will just think the harder to break the more of a challenge to do exactly that.

I am not talking about any of the frankenplanes.. Only variants of planes that are in the sim and are well made.. Perhaps the F-86 & Mig 15 as well.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well I would be more for the Lancaster, otherwise I am fairly anti jet, and rather early war. But for me online IL2 1946 is dead, just waiting for CoD to come out.

Persecutor_352
02-21-2011, 09:07 AM
Online IL2 is hardly dead. Check the AKAFA campaigns, for example.

CoD, if it ever comes out (2 more weeks, be sure, anybody?) will, I think, not replace IL-2 for a *long* time. Too few planes, too restricted an arena, no matter how good it will be.

If you've ever tried 6DoF, you cannot possibly go back to flying without it. Doing so would be a lot like trying to fly with an 8-point hat switch after flying with TrackIR.

The "realistic" arguments are the height of silliness. Please, this is a simulation -- nothing here is real. The question that should be asked is not "is it real" .... rather "does it add to the immersion and entertainment value of the game?"

I'm surprised at the large percentage of voters in this poll who fly the stock game, otherwise the vote here is about what one would expect. Do I personally care whether 6DoF is accepted by Team DD? Not a whit! I've got the mods, and it's already there. So do each of you, should you choose to use it. If not, so you've exercised the power of choice. Nice option; glad we have it.

b34856
02-21-2011, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by b34856:
I'm kind of confused.... What is "6DoF"?

6DoF (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frKBONgBpDY&feature=related) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ah,thanks. So is this what you get when you buy something like TrackIR?

Persecutor_352
02-21-2011, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by b34856:
...
Ah,thanks. So is this what you get when you buy something like TrackIR?
That's correct, b ..... if the game you are running supports TrackIR and 6DoF. Some sims support TrackIR but don't implement 6 D(degrees)oF(Freedom); IL-2 in its stock form falls into this category. 6DoF was added to IL-2 with the mods.

Woke_Up_Dead
02-21-2011, 02:45 PM
I would like 6DoF only if it can be used with a combination of keyboard/mouse/joystick so that I won't need to buy TIR to enable it.

KG26_Alpha
02-21-2011, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by tomtheyak:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KG26_Alpha:
No

I sense some paranoia here about 6DoF

Its totally unrealistic.

You flown small cockpit a/c Alpha?

I'm guessing not cos then you'd realise what your saying is frankly wrong.

Straps can be loosened, and whilst a good tight lap belt is a priority to keep you in your seat, loosening shoulder straps is a must to be able to peer round the framing or back over the tail, lean forward to adjust instruments - particularly the Spitfire, where the compass bowl is situated down in front of the joystick - IIRC the spitfire had a two length shoulder strap adjustment, one tight the other allowing more freedom of movement for just such eventualities. Indeed, more than one Spit pilot forgetting to tighten it found the gunsite was the first thing to remind him of his oversight in the event of a sudden stop! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes I fly, but not WW2 high powered aircraft pulling high G's and fighting for my life.

The Sutton Harness used by RAF allowed the pilot to lean forwards.
As did Luftwaffe pilots with a similar system.

But this has nothing to do with the unrealistic 6DoF views allowed in IL21946 modded versions being asked for into stock IL2 1946.

Bearcat99
02-21-2011, 09:08 PM
Originally posted by KG26_Alpha:

But this has nothing to do with the unrealistic 6DoF views allowed in IL21946 modded versions being asked for into stock IL2 1946.

Well you are obviously coming into this whole discussion with previously held biases and either have not read what I said or chose to ignore it and continue on it your chosen train of thought.

Ba5tard5word
02-22-2011, 12:38 AM
I fly modded but I don't use 6DoF. I don't like how it works in the modded Il-2 game, the way it "sticks" when you move forward and back at certain points. Do you get used to this? It just feels annoying to me, I'd rather just use the stock three sets of seat position, which work fine for me. Plus it seems like it would take a while to get used to 6DoF, it's very disorienting to me since I'm not used to it. I'll try it in COD though. So yes I suppose I'd like to see it in Il-2 if it was implemented correctly.

ROXunreal
02-22-2011, 07:28 AM
NO! because it's CHEATING and people using it are NOOBS!



I'm kidding. I don't use head tracking but even I see the importance of 6dof in realism, immersion and whatnot and I want it in the stock game as well, for that far day in the future when I actually get myself some form of head tracking.

Bearcat99
02-22-2011, 06:53 PM
Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
I fly modded but I don't use 6DoF. I don't like how it works in the modded Il-2 game, the way it "sticks" when you move forward and back at certain points. Do you get used to this? It just feels annoying to me, I'd rather just use the stock three sets of seat position, which work fine for me. Plus it seems like it would take a while to get used to 6DoF, it's very disorienting to me since I'm not used to it. I'll try it in COD though. So yes I suppose I'd like to see it in Il-2 if it was implemented correctly.

Mine doesn't do that.. I have to admit though.. I still have zoom on my stick.. I mainly zoom in to look at things like gauges or stuff on the ground.. When I do lean forward.. like if I am in a razorback.. or a 109 or Zeke.. mine is smooth.. Perhaps that is a setting thing. When I first got TIR I hated it... I sent my TIR 1 back.. and then I got TIR 2 about a year later and it gave me fits.. but I missed the date to send it back.. so I just kept it.. I dusted it off about a year later and fiddled with the settings and got it working great.. I skipped TIR 3 because IL2 which is basically the only sim I was flying at the time didn't support 6dOF so it was moot.. When TIR 4 came out I got WoVII & FSX and TIR4.. but it was the mods in IL2 and WoP that really made me appreciate 6DoF..

Choctaw111
02-22-2011, 08:17 PM
I think that 6DOF is THE single thing I like best about the modded sim.
My close second favorite would be the more realistic sound.

Bearcat99
02-22-2011, 08:34 PM
Me too... I like some of the other stuff as well... but the 6DoF, the sounds.. and the Med map was what made mt take a harder look.. I think that if TD & the same guys who made some of the new Mustangs got together.. good things would happen for the sim..

FourShades
02-24-2011, 07:22 PM
I have never really understood the attraction to "realistic sounds" myself. Sure the original engine sounds were a bit like a lawnmower, but if we are talking realism then I suspect all we would hear in cockpit (outside the headphones) is an enormous racket and NOTHING else.

Mind you, I always fly with cockpit on, externals off, so maybe I don't often get in situations where sound changes make a real difference.

The thing about mods, whether made by TD or by third parties, is that they add richness to the game. Some of them raise the popularity, some raise the fidelity; not many mods do both. Take the TD radio nav mod released recently. That is brilliant stuff that really helps us understand the airmanship required in a WW2 environment. But what percentage of the community is going to use it, when the dominant mode of DF-based flying basically ignores navigation altogether?

I know I'll be using radio nav as standard from now on! We need people like TD and others adding fidelity to the game to keep it credible.

Cheers,
4Shades

Ba5tard5word
02-24-2011, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ba5tard5word:
I fly modded but I don't use 6DoF. I don't like how it works in the modded Il-2 game, the way it "sticks" when you move forward and back at certain points. Do you get used to this? It just feels annoying to me, I'd rather just use the stock three sets of seat position, which work fine for me. Plus it seems like it would take a while to get used to 6DoF, it's very disorienting to me since I'm not used to it. I'll try it in COD though. So yes I suppose I'd like to see it in Il-2 if it was implemented correctly.

Mine doesn't do that.. I have to admit though.. I still have zoom on my stick.. I mainly zoom in to look at things like gauges or stuff on the ground.. When I do lean forward.. like if I am in a razorback.. or a 109 or Zeke.. mine is smooth.. Perhaps that is a setting thing. When I first got TIR I hated it... I sent my TIR 1 back.. and then I got TIR 2 about a year later and it gave me fits.. but I missed the date to send it back.. so I just kept it.. I dusted it off about a year later and fiddled with the settings and got it working great.. I skipped TIR 3 because IL2 which is basically the only sim I was flying at the time didn't support 6dOF so it was moot.. When TIR 4 came out I got WoVII & FSX and TIR4.. but it was the mods in IL2 and WoP that really made me appreciate 6DoF.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, really? Maybe I didn't phrase it right, when I move in it's like it "jumps" a bit when you get to certain points, I think where the edges of the pre-existing three-stage views start and end. I've seen vids by Fruitbat where it did this when he was using 6DoF--move forward a bit and it "jumps" or "sticks" at certain points as you move forward and back. It just feels crummy and uncomfortable to me.

Bearcat99
02-24-2011, 08:23 PM
Yeah that's just it though.. I don't lean forward much.. I use the zoom macro.. but when I do lean in I didn't notice that.. that doesn't mean that it doesn't happen though..

Treetop64
02-24-2011, 10:34 PM
On a side note, just wanted to thank BC for putting up what is, for once, a sensible poll. Really got tired of the stupid little "do you fart on Tuesdays or Thursdays", or similarly unimportant or uninteresting polls of late...

klemlao
02-25-2011, 03:05 AM
"I mean, what % of the players is wearing silly hats when sitting in front of the PC in the first place? 1? 5? Maybe even 10?"
Are you a fashion victim or do you want a better game? I use TIR4 with the headset clipon led but you can use something like a golfing visor with the reflective patches. Or you could go full switch and get a leather flying helmet http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

"Its totally unrealistic."
I do think that the 'range' of movement in the mods 6DOF may need looking at and restricting in some cases but it isn't "totally unrealistic." whereas the standard views are.

"b) something useful?"
Like more obscure aircraft or multi-variants of existing types while outdated viewing techniques persist? Who will want non-mods when they have experienced 6DOF in CoD?

IL-2 will continue for a long time while SoW (can't call the whole series CoD) catches up in theatres and aircraft.

"I would like 6DoF only if it can be used with a combination of keyboard/mouse/joystick so that I won't need to buy TIR to enable it."
Yes, of course it should. Some people can't afford or don't want to splash out on TIR.

"But this has nothing to do with the unrealistic 6DoF views allowed in IL21946 modded versions being asked for into stock IL2 1946"
See my comments above

"I fly modded but I don't use 6DoF. I don't like how it works in the modded Il-2 game, the way it "sticks" when you move forward and back at certain points"
I agree but I set my fore-aft movement very low (Z axis?), almost zero and just enough to allow movement to the instrument panel, and I use Zoom on a roller wheel on my throttle and before that a button that cycles through the three main zoom levels. Some things can't be perfect but they can improve immersion and take us a little closer to realism than a head stuck in a frame.

"I have never really understood the attraction to "realistic sounds" myself."
I don't know if you fly mods but the sound of that Merlin is streets ahead of the standard sound when it goes by. You could argue about whether it is PERFECTLY accurate or could REALLY be heard but if we ARE going to hear it lets hear it like that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
02-25-2011, 06:13 AM
Originally posted by klemlao:
"I have never really understood the attraction to "realistic sounds" myself."
I don't know if you fly mods but the sound of that Merlin is streets ahead of the standard sound when it goes by. You could argue about whether it is PERFECTLY accurate or could REALLY be heard but if we ARE going to hear it lets hear it like that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

+1

The R2800 sounds PDG too... So does the Benz on the Me-109

FourShades
02-25-2011, 07:11 AM
streets ahead of the standard sound when it goes by

There you go, that's why it is not important to me, I never sit around watching planes fly past.

Cheers,
4Shades

gothkrieger
02-25-2011, 11:10 AM
So what is 6DOF really about. I get some idea from the posts but I am new to this sim and still have a lot to learn about it.

klemlao
02-25-2011, 12:38 PM
6 DOF means 6 degrees of freedom. You aren't just restricted to rotating your head up/down and rotating left/right from a fixed point in the cockpit. You can also move your head Sideways (laterally) left/rght and vertically Up/Down and can see around or above/below canopy struts, look down over the stick, e.g. at the Spitfire compass, and around the edge of your seat back instead of your head just swivelling where it is at a fixed point on the centreline and staring at the head rest.

gothkrieger
02-25-2011, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by klemlao:
6 DOF means 6 degrees of freedom. You aren't just restricted to rotating your head up/down and rotating left/right from a fixed point in the cockpit. You can also move your head Sideways (laterally) left/rght and vertically Up/Down and can see around or above/below canopy struts, look down over the stick, e.g. at the Spitfire compass, and around the edge of your seat back instead of your head just swivelling where it is at a fixed point on the centreline and staring at the head rest.


Were all these movements possible by a pilot that is strapped in his seat or does it allow movements that would be beyond that?

kimosabi79
02-25-2011, 02:26 PM
The modded game 6DoF is exaggerated but it's exaggerated in terms of being able to use stock IL-2's zoom functions. 6DoF allows you to use all the movement vectors you have IRL. Stock IL-2 does not have all the vectors.

gothkrieger
02-25-2011, 03:49 PM
So what you are saying is that the movements are natural but the zoom is exagerated, do I have that right?

thefruitbat
02-25-2011, 04:14 PM
Originally posted by gothkrieger:
So what you are saying is that the movements are natural but the zoom is exagerated, do I have that right?

only in the sense that zoom is exaggerated in il2 full stop, ie wide, normal, gunsight. 6 dof just carries this over, but you manipulate it by moving your head a bit closer to the track ir sensor, instead of pressing a key.

gothkrieger
02-25-2011, 04:27 PM
So its kind of a track ir mod then?

thefruitbat
02-25-2011, 05:33 PM
yes, although there is a mouse version as well.

you can see me using 6dof on this vid, all movement done by my head tracking.

at no point to i loose visual contact with my opponent, due to the ability to look around the cockpit bars.

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gothkrieger
02-25-2011, 08:35 PM
That looks great but I guess I will not worry about it until I get a track ir. Certainly an advantage in a fight.

Romanator21
02-25-2011, 11:48 PM
I voted "no" because at this point, most aircraft cockpits are optimized for the fixed pivot point. If the head moves with 6DOF then holes appear.

The problem with holes is not that they give an advantage (which they don't) but that it looks shoddy, half-a$$ed, however you want to call it.

A newcomer especially will be put off by the graphical "glitches".

And yes, I have tried out mods and the 6DOF - I decided not to keep them.

Some have proposed an option. That's OK as long as it can be set by the server, and there's an obvious disclaimer that appears if selected. ("Warning 6DOF is only a work in progress" etc...)

Besides, I see no problem with the mouse.

kimosabi79
02-26-2011, 05:25 AM
I see no problem with 6DoF and head tracker either. You guys are exaggerating the cockpit glitches to no end. It's NOT a huge problem! I agree that using a mouse/hat etc. with 6DoF is useless, it's the ever growing TrackIR/Head tracker crowd that can fully utilize the immersiveness of 6DoF, and we are constantly growing in numbers. Take another look at the poll.