PDA

View Full Version : China or not China?



nicolas10
08-21-2005, 03:16 AM
Hello, hello, how are you? Wow you look great this morning... give yourself a hand.

Hum it's been a while since I last posted in there, but I was wondering if there was any plans for a China map. I'm not talking about that BS map that people claimed was Burma when PF came out, but a REAL one.

All the planes are there to simulate an AVG campagin, which I've been longing for for about 20 years (ok at least 15). And now there will soon be a Ki 21... I mean... isn't that a big enough hint?

Oh and when do we get a D12?

Nic

Targ
08-21-2005, 03:52 AM
Fneb..

nicolas10
08-21-2005, 04:15 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif

Targ
08-21-2005, 05:10 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

nicolas10
08-21-2005, 05:14 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Targ
08-21-2005, 05:16 AM
So waz up home chicken?
Long time no post!

crazyivan1970
08-21-2005, 07:04 AM
China map would be nice...

How the hell are you nic? I thought you`ll never find us http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chuck_Older
08-21-2005, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by nicolas10:
Hello, hello, how are you? Wow you look great this morning... give yourself a hand.

Hum it's been a while since I last posted in there, but I was wondering if there was any plans for a China map. I'm not talking about that BS map that people claimed was Burma when PF came out, but a REAL one.

All the planes are there to simulate an AVG campagin, which I've been longing for for about 20 years (ok at least 15). And now there will soon be a Ki 21... I mean... isn't that a big enough hint?

Oh and when do we get a D12?

Nic

Well, we need Ki-27 and Ki-21 as well as maps for an authentic AVG campaign. The Fokker we should be getting will do an admirable job of simulating the Ki-27, and the Kuban map does a nice job of giving a Rangoon-like feel. Balaton map does OK for Yunnan, and the lake is a good stand-in for Dianchi despite being the wrong shape, because there is an airfield on a distinct plateau just north of the lake. At least one other map we have is a good for central Burma because of the many river tributaries, and wilderness areas which look like jungle, and one spot isn't a bad "Magwe" because a road runs through it, there's a town on the river, and an airfield is right close by. One of the online maps is a good "Salween gorge". We also have two Russian bombers which do an OK job of standing in for missing IJA types

there's no need to wait for an AVG campaign for one second longer, you have potentially three that I know about that exist right now

Obelix has done a nice AVG campaign but last I talked to him, it wasn't quite brought up to 4.01m standard yet- it's a bit old, but he was working on it and it may be done. He also hinted that he was doing a more realistic one as well. I don't have a URL handy for them, however

I have an AVG campaign that is rooted in fact but I did change a few things because it was more effective that way in my opinion. Toungoo isn't in the right place, and neither is Loi-wing. I moved some dates for more drama, like you actually fly a mission on July 4th 1942. Of course in real life the AVG was disbanded on the 4th but it isn't dramamtic. It's a semi-fictional campaign. It was made with 3.04m but everything works in 4.01, with a few twists. It had been designed to be fun over realistically hard, and now in 4.01m some missions are harder than I wanted them to be. With new clouds, visiblity is practically nill in a few missions and while I can easily argue that it really happened in Burma/China that lousy weather was a killer, I didn't want to frustrate players with that type of thing. I have seriously considered it, and it is likely I will want to update the campaign with more missions and more correct aircraft when they become available

I'm fond of shamelessly exploiting my own efforts so here you go: http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Chuck_Older
08-21-2005, 07:36 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/AVGW2a.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/announce2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/announce3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/announce4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v441/Chuck_Older/bigger.jpg

Chuck_Older
08-21-2005, 07:44 AM
My campaign is available at the Il2 site, I'm told, as well as here:

http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_campaigns_wtcf.htm

and here:

http://www.flying-legends.net/php/downloads/listings.ph...e_number=2&cat_id=28 (http://www.flying-legends.net/php/downloads/listings.php?page_number=2&cat_id=28)

I wish i knew the URLs for Obelix's stuff, you might try asking here:

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=127

I'm not trying to show up Obelix at all, by the way, I suspect his campaigns are superior to mine in realism

Chuck_Older
08-21-2005, 07:50 AM
Oh-

Leadspitter, Hammerd, and Obelix all do top-notch AVG skins for the Hawk 81 although I had a hard time finding P-40E skins, and modified one to represent the first squadron. Couldn't locate the artist's name though, I tried for months

I used Hammerd's basic AVG skin because he did the default H81A-2 skin which is quite lovely although strictly speaking not perfect, because it has elements of all three squadrons on it. I asked for and was granted permission to alter the skin he had released to more accurately represent the 3rd Squadron's planes. I also use some of Leadspitters stuff. Box weasel's Ki-43 skins are very nice and also included, as well as some other skins

nicolas10
08-21-2005, 09:57 AM
I've dled your stuff and I'll try it out soon. As much as I'm sure you've done great things, using a wrong map to simulate always does spoil it to me. It's just not the same. I knew about Obelix's stuff. I even tried to skin a DC3 for him at some point when I wasn't banned from checksix-fr.com

Nic

Chuck_Older
08-21-2005, 11:18 AM
No choice but to use the wrong maps. The right ones don't exist. What can you do? Either make do, or go without. To do an AVG campaign properly, we would need maps much larger than we currently have. Heck, I could have you go to Africa to pick up P-40Es if I had the right map! Hanchow today, Hanoi tomorrow and Hong Kong the next...if we had the maps.

The inflight map has the wrong names...but the view out of the cockpit won't http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

nicolas10
08-21-2005, 12:53 PM
You forgot a fourth option:

You complain relentlessly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Dtools4fools
08-21-2005, 02:39 PM
A real China map... zooming over the rice terraces of the TRed River Valley... a real Burma map...diving into the gorges of the mighty Irrawaddy between Bahmo and Katha...a real Philippine map... sinking the Japanese supply fleet hiden between the cliffs of the islands of the Calmaian group....

*just dreaming*

At least we got Singapore/Malaya map... bare a$$ naked without the jungle, but at least it is a one Asia map...

****

rockgardenlove
08-21-2005, 03:55 PM
I'm thinking a good looking jungle would be impossible to render...games like cfs2(dont start il2 vs cfs war please)cover alot of terrain but the ground moddelling is horrible. I think there would be major quality sacrifices for a china map. That is just my opinion though.

Dtools4fools
08-21-2005, 04:14 PM
Large regular forests do for me as jungle. Point is more that there is way too little jungle/forest on maps like Singapore. Countries like the Philippines had around 90% of forest cover at the end of WWII. Today its down to 15-20% http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Burma, Malaya and Indonesia went similar ways from 45 til today.
****

Chuck_Older
08-21-2005, 09:28 PM
So Long as the "Forgotten Sideshow" is not forgotten

Chinese and US volunteers- your efforts are not forgotten or in vain http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif CATF, AVG or USAAF

Tater-SW-
08-21-2005, 09:30 PM
Exactly. Just dumb in the map department. Making the maps look far better than they do whould have actually taken LESS, not more effort. Dump most of the roads. Dump 90% of the rivers once they get 500-1000m inland. Cover almost everything else with jungle (large forest) right down to the beach. More steep hills to the water, place simple grass strips with no buildings (some NG strips are like this) where fields were and let them get dolled up on a per-mission basis. DONE.

Less is more.

tater