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View Full Version : Rudder pedals now essential?



dazza9806482
07-21-2005, 01:09 AM
Hi all

Been slowly helping my noob mate to get into FB, having nice one on one DF's. He is absolutely loving it- another convert!

Ive noticed something ominous (for me anyway)- i love the 4.01 patch but i had a shot on the YAK 9UT for the first time in a while and found i couldnt fly it.

its turning circle was far reduced as the plane veered into a slow stall during a hard turn, however i noticed i could hold this and correct with rudder.

problem? well despite lots of you saying they are essential- i dont have rudder pedals

twisty stick- which until then had be adequate

i mean not ideal obviously, but it had never noticably affected basic skills with a plane.

however now i realised that the harmony of control unattainable while simulataneously moving the stick and wrenching you wrist might be serious detriment for certain planes.

also- i know that many will say rudder pedals are vital for the PC pilot, and always have been- and im sure thats true but i dont have the money and cant justify it. its only now ive noticed a serious basic restriction tho.

so i began to think- maybe 4.01 makes rudder pedals essential.... and expensive http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

as to why i noticed this on the yak i could only think this is because of its low weight and high power- so u get a substantial torque effect at low speeds- but i am really out of my depth with that comment

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

any opinions? rudder pedals users and non-users especially

FritzGryphon
07-21-2005, 01:11 AM
I use X45, with the rocker for rudder.

By no means is it ideal, but it's a step above twisty stick, and you can get the HOTAS for less money than pedals alone.

Though, I have never tried the successor to the X45, whatever it is.

AerialTarget
07-21-2005, 01:25 AM
Ask Fooltrottel for a detailed diagram of his cheap, simple home-made pedals. All you need is a cheap joystick and an hour or two of work.

Tully__
07-21-2005, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
...I have never tried the successor to the X45, whatever it is. It's the X52 and it's a twisty again.

han freak solo
07-21-2005, 06:55 AM
I'm guilty. I bought pedals due to 4.01. Before that, my twisty was plenty good.

After about 3 weeks of pedals, they are second nature to me now. The game is relatively easier to me due to the pedals. But, I'm still not an Ace by any means.

F19_Ob
07-21-2005, 08:34 AM
I also have a twist-stick.
As others I think it's a bit problematic but I got better results by adding lots of "filtering" in the ingame sticksettings.
The movements become smoother although a bit slower but it wont hamper the range of movement.

Due to medical problems I can't use rudderpedals without pain but I tested a
Thrustmaster Hotas cougar throttle and stick and I mapped rudder to a wheel (for the thumb) on the throttle wich allowed very precise ruddermovements without the rudder wanting to return to center, wich causes the swinging to the sides.

At first it felt a bit strange to operate rudder with the thumb but after 30mins I could maneuver better and more precice than I can do with my twist-stick.
So this is a stick I would buy if i could afford it.
I still think the twiststick is ok with the filtering and i'll stick with it.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

HoneySeeker
07-21-2005, 08:39 AM
I bought myself a set of SIMPED F16 USB pedals to celebrate two years of not smoking. A month later, 4.01m came out.

Luck? Synchronicity? Who cares? Either way, they're indispensible now.

lbhskier37
07-21-2005, 08:55 AM
It's not just a coicidence that real planes have rudder pedals and not a twistly little plastic stick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

F19_Ob
07-21-2005, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by lbhskier37:
It's not just a coicidence that real planes have rudder pedals and not a twistly little plastic stick http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

The twist rudder isn't a bad idea. The main problem is that the twist often have a too short range to travel wich forces miniature movements by the pilot wich also is affected by the spring that centers it again.
If the twist range was greater more precise movents would be the result and the "centering" would not have as big impact.

Well what I think.

knightflyte
07-21-2005, 09:15 AM
The difference between flying twisty stick and rudder peddles is the difference between two children playing with cardboard swords and olympic fencers.

I had Saiteks X45 and never loved the rocker rudder. It 'worked' but wasn't optimal. "Get rudder peddles" I'd hear from the forum. So I didn't listen and bought a Saitek evo Force. Twisty stick AND force feedbac. Mmmmmmm. Control was better for me. I didn't have problem with centering, but trimming a 109 isn't fun on twisty stick.

Enter 4.01..... I used twisty for 3 weeks. I thought I was getting a good grip of models and control. Suddenly it seemed everyone was getting peddles and I caught the fever. I'm glad I did.

Rudder peddles have put so much MORE enjoyment into the game. The precision....THE FEELING...it's hard to explain that one, but you'll know it when you feel it. The parrying and thrusting that I find natural now is a far different feeling than with twisty stick. I DON'T know if it's 4,01 related or just another avenue of the sim opened to me, and I'm excited about it.

IF you CAN afford peddles I recommend them. If not, then I had better feeling and less control issues with twisty stick.

dazza9806482
07-21-2005, 10:24 AM
Good points guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I would love pedals, but:

they can be quite expensive (and im not DIY minded)

i cant fit them in my wee room

my girlfriend would finally leave me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

still i appreciate they would be my next purchase for sure.

thanks for filtering tip, OB, i will try that, sounds like a good idea

han freak solo
07-21-2005, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by knightflyte:
Rudder peddles have put so much MORE enjoyment into the game. The precision....THE FEELING...it's hard to explain that one, but you'll know it when you feel it.

Maybe, we as humans need to use our feet for things. Cars, motorcycles, tractors, aircraft, etc. all have something for our feet to do. It's only natural, no? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

jugent
07-21-2005, 01:02 PM
I have used pedals all the time. They where essential in IL2, quite vital in fact.
In FB their influence became less important.
In PF patch 4.01 the yaw is more significant but I dont think that it influence the top-speed, aerial gunnery and curving as much as it did in IL2.
By the way, aerial gunnery was much harder in Real Life ive read, because it was hard for the pilot to keep his head at the right position.

VF-29_Sandman
07-21-2005, 02:07 PM
u could surf e-bay for pedals. i have a pair of ch pedals on the way that i got at a steal as well as the x-52 and track ir-3. just gotta be quick on the draw to win the auction. just remember that, if u bid on an item, ur entering into a contract to buy. if not serious about getting it, dont bother.

BrotherVoodoo
07-21-2005, 02:31 PM
You can also buy yourself a reletivly cheap usb steering wheel with pedals. That is what I use and it seems to work just fine. I think I only paid 40$ for my logitech set.

GT182
07-21-2005, 06:38 PM
I've been using a Cougar HOTAS for over 2 years now after having a twist stick and an X45. Now don't get me wrong as I'm no ace either but the rudder pedals make a difference in flying. And they don't take up any more room than your feet do. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif It's having a place to keep them when hot flying, which is usually under a bit further back under the desk.

I would suggest one essential piece of hardware tho.... a Tracker IR. It makes flying as real as can be. And if I had to choose between buying that or rudder pedals first... the Tracker would win. But seeing I have a Cougar HOTAS, the the rudder pedals are a must too.

AerialTarget
07-21-2005, 09:45 PM
No, rudder pedals are the most essential thing after a joystick. TrackIR helps immensely, but is not a necessity as rudder pedals are. Ask a real pilot if he'd rather have his rudder stop working or have to fly in a neck brace, and I think he'll choose the latter!

When I got rudder pedals (back in my Red Baron 3D days), I instantly doubled my success rate (and I mean within a day). When I got TrackIR a few weeks ago, I merely raised my success rate by perhaps half.

knightflyte
07-21-2005, 11:05 PM
What makes Track IR so sucessful ISN'T because it makes you a better shooter or get more kills. It's because Track IR improves the immersion factor so dramatically.
I've got rudder peddles a few weeks now, and would be hard pressed to give up the peddles. Peddles HAVE increased the enjoyment significantly.

Given the choice of Track IR or rudder peddles I'd KEEP Track IR. Intangables, like freeing up buttons... to situational awareness... to seemingly insignificant things like checking guages automatically with a head bob (just like driving your car) make Track IR a must have.

Flying with Track IR transforms the experience, while flying with peddles transforms the flying.

I think to get the BEST enjoyment from a flight sim is to have a HOTAS rudder system. Having had all other variables including a gamepad proves it to me.

AerialTarget
07-21-2005, 11:23 PM
TrackIR only does three things for me. Firstly and most importantly, it lets me transition my view smoothly. This means that I don't lose an airplane between views, or because the sudden jerking motion disoriented me. Secondly, it allows me to look behind me, and everywhere else, much more quickly than with keys. Thirdly, because of the second point, I check my six more often, because I don't take as long to do so and therefore do not deviate as much from my flight path.

But it isn't necessary. Rudder is. Without rudder, you're a flying target!

Schutze_S
07-22-2005, 02:51 PM
I'm using a cheap MS sidewinder racing wheel,the peddles can be set to combined mode and used as a rudder control.They feel fine.

You can dismantle the wheel bit so all you have left is a small circuit board and wheel rotating pod.Works a treat for an extra slider control. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Flying with peddles adds great control IMHO I couldn't imagine going back to a twisty JS.

For me the answer to your question is Yes they are essential

Udidtoo
07-22-2005, 03:19 PM
Another really cheap alternative is to watch Ebay for some of the Logitech GT ffb steering wheels for the PS2.

They have a USB plug and when you plug it in XP tells you you have just installed a Wingman Formula FFB. Just agree with it. I've seen them on Ebay for 20 bucks U.S.

For some reason they only wanted to work correctly if I set them right rudder 1st in the HOTAS setup screen.I had a pair that lasted from day 1 of FB until 2 months back. I can't say they were the equal of the CH pedals I have now but it sure was easier to line up shots with than my old MS FFB II.