PDA

View Full Version : F7F Tigercat



AFJ_Locust
04-24-2006, 05:50 PM
Id like to get my paws on one of these.

http://www.warbirdalley.com/f7f.htm

AFJ_Locust
04-24-2006, 06:01 PM
This would be even better http://www.warbirdalley.com/f9f.htm

F9F Panther http://www.stushepherd.homestead.com/files/F9FPanther.jpg

Rjel
04-24-2006, 07:25 PM
A number of years ago, at the High on Kalamazoo airshow, I got to see their F7F Tigercat in flight. But even better, it was in formation with an F6F Hellcat, F8F Bearcat, and F9F Panther. All being led by an F-14 Tomcat. The Cat flight, as they called it. An amazing sight.

WarWolfe_1
04-24-2006, 08:07 PM
Originally posted by Rjel:
A number of years ago, at the High on Kalamazoo airshow, I got to see their F7F Tigercat in flight. But even better, it was in formation with an F6F Hellcat, F8F Bearcat, and F9F Panther. All being led by an F-14 Tomcat. The Cat flight, as they called it. An amazing sight.

Wish I could have seen that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PF_Coastie
04-24-2006, 09:24 PM
Yeah, would be nice! But if its performance in game would be anything like the current wildcats, it would be useless.

The current F4F-4 cant even beat a 1940 model zero. Something really needs to be done with the zeros or the wildcats in game.

Try a QMB against 2 1940 zeros in the F4f-4, then switch it around to flying the zero. Its really rediculous. I know a lot of it is because of the AI cheating. But the AI cant even cheat enough to beat a human in a far inferior zero.

VW-IceFire
04-24-2006, 10:03 PM
Originally posted by PF_Coastie:
Yeah, would be nice! But if its performance in game would be anything like the current wildcats, it would be useless.

The current F4F-4 cant even beat a 1940 model zero. Something really needs to be done with the zeros or the wildcats in game.

Try a QMB against 2 1940 zeros in the F4f-4, then switch it around to flying the zero. Its really rediculous. I know a lot of it is because of the AI cheating. But the AI cant even cheat enough to beat a human in a far inferior zero.
Mmmm...F4F? The Wildcat? It was generally considered inferior to the Zero until tactics were invented like the Thatch Weave that allowed the Wildcat to compete with the Zero using group tactics against the Japanese individual warrior philosophy.

The F7F Tigercat isn't even in the same class. Mid 400mph twin engined heavy fighter/fighter-bomber with heavy firepower and an excellent service record. Missed the war by a few months...not much in Japanese service would have been able to bother it in any serious way. I look on it as the twin engined Bearcat...the pinnacles of single and twin engine propeller fighters in the USN and the last.

Xiolablu3
04-24-2006, 10:26 PM
In game the Wildcat is surprisingly good versus the Zero. I have had lots of success online with it, using correct tactics.

Just dont turn fight with them and you have a plane that is faster and rolls better. Plus it stronger and the 50's really rip up those Zeros.

Its a bit like fighting Spitfires in a FW190. I find that if the experienced pilots use Hellcats vs Zeros, they can do very well.

I have been told that in fact the Zero should be faster as well, but in game the Wildcat is a little faster. Not sure how true this is.

VMF-214_HaVoK
04-24-2006, 10:41 PM
Hmm, I never had a problem crushing Zekes in my Wildcat. Although the Hellcat is still a pos. It is one of the few planes Oleg forget to fix when he got rid of the ridiculous wobbles.

AFJ_Locust
04-24-2006, 10:48 PM
The Hellcat & Corsair are still so unstable & for lack of a better word wobblie Its redicules realy.

Badsight.
04-24-2006, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by AFJ_Locust:
Id like to get my paws on one of these.

http://www.warbirdalley.com/f7f.htm you only just now found out about this model grumman ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

personally the MD Moonbat is much more "want-able"

AFJ_Locust
04-25-2006, 01:07 AM
The ac had alot of problems, It looks realy cool tho

http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/xp67.html

If I had a choice id take the p61
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/URG/p61.htm

JG53Frankyboy
04-25-2006, 03:52 AM
im still have hopes that this
http://rrgstudios.com/EN_02_08_UnnamedTitle.shtml
will be Korea http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

and both, F7F & F9F ( one of my favorite early jets !), saw action there http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
04-25-2006, 06:10 AM
You will NOT see more Grumman birds in this sim...be sure.

JG53Frankyboy
04-25-2006, 06:11 AM
new standalone game, propably new deal ?!

Irish_Rogues
04-25-2006, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
new standalone game, propably new deal ?!

Let's hope so. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bremspropeller
04-25-2006, 08:29 AM
Korean theater

USN jets:

F3D "Skyknight"
F9F "Panther"
F1H "Phantom"
F2H "Banshee"

USAF jets:

F-80C "Shooting Star"
F-84G "Thunderjet"
F-86A "Sabre"
F-86E "Sabre"


Is that list correct ?

Slickun
04-25-2006, 08:42 AM
US tactics Against the Zero were simply designed to take into account its strengths. Standard fighter philosophy. do what your equipment does best, don't fight the other guy's fight.

Pull and pray turned out to be a lousy tactic, fighting the other guy's fight, versus the A6M.

I've read Thach's account of developing the weave, and the whole premise was to develop something that maximized what the Wildcat did better. In Thach's view, it was better guns and more rugged construction. "The Weave" allowed American pilots to criss-cross behind each other, getting deflection shots at the Zero's on their mate's tails, with good guns that tore up the Zeros pretty quickly.

It worked.

Chennault did the same thing with the P-40. One pass, haul a$$, using the P-40's strengths, high dive speed and good guns, to get the edge.

Both sets of tactics allowed an inferior turning plane, not as good at the easy answer in aerial combat as the Japanese planes, to turn the tables.

Even late model US planes refused to turn with the Zero for more than a few degrees, unless they were at high speeds.

horseback
04-25-2006, 09:16 AM
One other factor in the RL Wildcat vs Zero equation was the fact that USN aircraft had much more reliable radios, allowing for much closer teamwork. AFAIK, at least half of the early-war Japanese fighters (army and navy) lacked radios entirely.

Japanese pilots flew & fought solo, in a very real sense. Even though they flew an aircraft that was faster, better climbing, and more maneuverable, they usually had no one watching their back.

cheers

horseback

JG53Frankyboy
04-25-2006, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Korean theater

USN/USMC jets:
F3D "Skyknight"
F9F "Panther"
F2H "Banshee"

USAF jets:
F-80C "Shooting Star"
F-84D
F-84E
F-84G "Thunderjet"
F-86A "Sabre"
F-86E "Sabre"
F-86F
F-94B "Starfire"

RAAF jets:
Meteor F.Mk.8

China/North Korea:
MiG-15
MiG-15bis




<- that should be the complete Jet list AFAIK.
nevertheless the pistonengines planes had still an important role, espacially in ground assault !

UberPickle
04-25-2006, 11:46 AM
Dont even get me started on what plane's I'd like to see in game http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Fork-N-spoon
04-25-2006, 02:37 PM
Say Lokost, (yes it's your psycho billy buddy from an old squadron) you do realize that even if the F7F, F8F, and or P-51H were added to this game, the historical servers that you play in will not use them because there isn't a schread of credible evidence to support that any of them saw fron line combat service during the war.

badaboom.1
04-25-2006, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
You will NOT see more Grumman birds in this sim...be sure.
Sadly......I think you're right...to much bad press about (TM)& copyright issues...it's a shame http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Treetop64
04-25-2006, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by horseback:
One other factor in the RL Wildcat vs Zero equation was the fact that USN aircraft had much more reliable radios, allowing for much closer teamwork. AFAIK, at least half of the early-war Japanese fighters (army and navy) lacked radios entirely.

Japanese pilots flew & fought solo, in a very real sense. Even though they flew an aircraft that was faster, better climbing, and more maneuverable, they usually had no one watching their back.

cheers

horseback

Great points, but gotta disagree with you on the "They flew planes that were faster..." part. If one thing the A6M series were not, compared to their American counterparts, is that they certainly were not faster. In fact, the faster the Japanese planes flew, the worse they performed, whereas the American planes had very good high-speed performance, and were generally faster planes.

wayno7777
04-25-2006, 08:41 PM
Here's some pics to drool over....
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/BearcatF8Fab.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/Tigercat.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/TigercatBanking20DegreesLeft1oClock.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/Bearcat-Tigercat.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/TigerCat01.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/Tigercat2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v224/wayno77/FB%20shots/Aircraft/5Cats.jpg

Badsight.
04-25-2006, 11:39 PM
Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
Say Lokost, (yes it's your psycho billy buddy from an old squadron) you do realize that even if the F7F, F8F, and or P-51H were added to this game, the historical servers that you play in will not use them because there isn't a schread of credible evidence to support that any of them saw fron line combat service during the war. the F7F was at the airfeild on Okinawa island fully functional & ready to be used when the surrender was announced

badaboom.1
04-26-2006, 06:33 PM
WOW!!!!!!!!Thank you very much wayno7777.....Those pics. are excellent!!!!!I am realy happy you posted these,I'm stunned at how large the wingspan[whole bird realy)THE HELLCAT IS!!!!!!.....WOW.....That does put things in perspective size wise between some of the GRUMMAN(TM http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)planes. What I mean is the differance in size between WILCAT/HELLCAT.

shinden1974
04-26-2006, 06:38 PM
sniff...theyre...beautiful...

badaboom.1
04-26-2006, 07:11 PM
...MYMAN....I feel your pain..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif...my theropist told me never say AVENGER!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

VW-IceFire
04-26-2006, 07:20 PM
I don't know why the Grumman birds get so much bad wrap in the game. The Wildcat I find to be tons of fun to fly...and the Hellcat is an underused bird. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to make it into a fighter that I could use effectively. In many cases I can...its not the fastest but it has a great dive, great control, rolls fast, turns fast at speed, and its very dangerous. Its actually quite a bit of fun against Luftwaffe fighters as it out turns the 109G-6 and 190A with relative ease and can dive with them.

Its not the greatest fighter and if you go solo against faster planes its got some serious downsides but its good and you can have fun with it.

The Tigercat would be quite a plane to fly in any sim...alot of power, very streamlined, probably surfers from some compressability problems...did it have dive breaks?

ImpStarDuece
04-26-2006, 07:22 PM
I'd prefer a Hornet

luftluuver
04-26-2006, 07:30 PM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:
I'd prefer a Hornet I'll second that.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sergio_101
04-27-2006, 02:53 AM
The F7F, F8F and P-51H were all in the combat
theatre, and in the case of the P-51H was
doing combat patrols before the surrender
of Japan.

None saw an enemy plane.

Sergio

JG53Frankyboy
04-27-2006, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I don't know why the Grumman birds get so much bad wrap in the game. The Wildcat I find to be tons of fun to fly...and the Hellcat is an underused bird. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to make it into a fighter that I could use effectively. In many cases I can...its not the fastest but it has a great dive, great control, rolls fast, turns fast at speed, and its very dangerous. Its actually quite a bit of fun against Luftwaffe fighters as it out turns the 109G-6 and 190A with relative ease and can dive with them.

............

but against a Zero 32 or 52 you can get troubles quick ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

when i read japanese accounts of WW2 about the enemy planes the one they feard often was the Hellcat !
they are saying this was the foe that had the turn and roll to fight with them . all others (US i mean) were "only" fast........ but the Hellcat could fight !
if you do this in game, you are mostly dead.
but sure, in game there is never the teamplay that the USN flyers used in combat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
perhaps its that........ i have just a bad feeling flying a F6F against the japanese in game.

as a sidenote, in the Book Gendas Blade a Ki84 pilot is not able to shake a following F6F at low alt ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FluffyDucks
04-27-2006, 04:36 AM
Hey!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
Wayno....Im pretty certain some of those pictures are mine(taken at Duxford) can you let me know your sources please?? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

FluffyDucks
04-27-2006, 05:13 PM
Bump! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

wayno7777
04-30-2006, 07:53 PM
IIRC I got them from here. I'll take them down if you want. Sorry if they're yours. PM me.

This is a link to an article by a Grumman test pilot on the F7F project....


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gifwrong key, here it is,
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3897/is_200208/ai_n9120620

VW-IceFire
04-30-2006, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
I don't know why the Grumman birds get so much bad wrap in the game. The Wildcat I find to be tons of fun to fly...and the Hellcat is an underused bird. I've spent quite a bit of time trying to make it into a fighter that I could use effectively. In many cases I can...its not the fastest but it has a great dive, great control, rolls fast, turns fast at speed, and its very dangerous. Its actually quite a bit of fun against Luftwaffe fighters as it out turns the 109G-6 and 190A with relative ease and can dive with them.

............

but against a Zero 32 or 52 you can get troubles quick ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

when i read japanese accounts of WW2 about the enemy planes the one they feard often was the Hellcat !
they are saying this was the foe that had the turn and roll to fight with them . all others (US i mean) were "only" fast........ but the Hellcat could fight !
if you do this in game, you are mostly dead.
but sure, in game there is never the teamplay that the USN flyers used in combat http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
perhaps its that........ i have just a bad feeling flying a F6F against the japanese in game.

as a sidenote, in the Book Gendas Blade a Ki84 pilot is not able to shake a following F6F at low alt ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See I would disagree. I've fought a few COOP battles in Hellcats with a good team behind me and we totally dominated the Zeros. I replayed a similar mission with the Zero and was afraid of the Hellcat. The reason being that the Hellcat can turn so well at speed and roll rate is good enough for positioning that the Zero cannot easily evade by turning. You can do better against a Corsair than a Hellcat often enough.

The trouble is that the turn rate fools pilots into thinking they can sustain a turn and then the Zero has them. So long as they use close in BNZ movements a group of Hellcats can dominate a group of Zeros. The reality is that the Japanese feared the Hellcat for a variety of reasons:

1) The Hellcat was as good as or superior to the Zero...it wasn't that much faster or that much better in the climb but it was tougher, better armed, and dove better.

2) The pilots the Hellcat faced off against in Zeros were often inexperienced so the enemy was twice as intimidating.

3) The pilots of the Hellcats were often trained and disciplined veterans having done well in Wildcats and finding the Hellcat gave them all they needed.

I do agree that the Hellcat is somewhat undermodeled as it does seem to have some nasty traits that shouldn't be there. It needs attention and tweaking but its good and can operate very well against the enemy. Its like the FW190 where everyone reads and assumes one thing from the history books when the interpretation is a little different.