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MB_Avro_UK
05-27-2006, 04:33 PM
hi all,

My father flew the RAF Gloster Meteor jet in the early 1950s. The earlier versions flew in WW2.His aircraft was fitted with four nose cannons.

I asked him as to what the effect was upon firing these cannons in flight.He only fired at inflight-towed targets but his recollection is that there was only a faint noise and vibration in the cockpit and no flash.

This is not the same as the Me 262 in game.

Any thoughts?

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

anarchy52
05-27-2006, 04:41 PM
It's much better now...veterans of Il-2 will remember the nuclear blast muzzle flash before PF...nose arnament used to be a big handicap

VW-IceFire
05-27-2006, 04:44 PM
Gotta remember that the Meteor mounted four Hispano Mark V 20mm cannons while the ME-262 is decidedly upgunned with 4 MK108 30mm cannons. Compare the sounds more closely to the Tempest V as that uses the same guns.

The nuclear muzzle flashs were quite a hinderance back in the day. Your target would be obscured by the flash for at least 1 second which meant lots of things could happen.

MB_Avro_UK
05-27-2006, 04:58 PM
hi Fox_3,

The weapons were of a similar type and also mounted in the nose of the plane. In his opinion,the ingame sound is very loud for the Me 262 and also the flash is over the top.

Just his thoughts. Also, my father has flown the Me 262 in this sim and has found it to be a bit 'wobbly'. His words not mine.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Fox_3
05-27-2006, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by MB_Avro_UK:
hi Fox_3,

The weapons were of a similar type and also mounted in the nose of the plane. In his opinion,the ingame sound is very loud for the Me 262 and also the flash is over the top.

Just his thoughts. Also, my father has flown the Me 262 in this sim and has found it to be a bit 'wobbly'. His words not mine.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Agreed. But the cannons on the meteor are located lower and out of the pilots line of sight. Surely making the muzzle flashes less noticeable?

Choctaw111
05-27-2006, 08:45 PM
Let's get an oppinion from an actuall Me262 pilot. No sense in comparing apples to oranges. Are there any still alive today? Galland? Steinhoff? I do not know if any of them are alive yet today to even ask. Having an oppinion of an actual Meteor pilot is great IF we were talking about Meteros. BTW I think it is really great to still be able talk to those old fighter pilots...Lets enjoy this as long as we can and humbly remember their service.

NonWonderDog
05-27-2006, 10:13 PM
Can you really compare the flash of a long-barrel 20mm to a short-barrel 30mm? The difference in muzzle flash between even a 7.62 rifle and a 7.62 carbine is startling, I'd only expect MORE difference between a Hispano-Suiza and a MK108.

Heliopause
05-28-2006, 03:18 AM
Blasting away in the dark will give a nice flash wich can be a real pain in combat. But flying a 262 in daylight at +500 mph, don't think it would be much of a sight problem.
Don't remember reading anything about it, except for the experimental 50mm canon.

Xiolablu3
05-28-2006, 04:19 AM
20mm long barrel

vs

30mm short barrel

=

Lots more flash and bang from 30mm

WOLFMondo
05-28-2006, 06:41 AM
The Hispano's on the Meteor were MkV's, they were short barrel Hispano's.

The position of the cannon on the Meteors is below and to the side of the pilot, the 262 they were right in front of the pilot. You'd probably get more noticable muzzle flash from a P38 then a Meteor.

I think the only person still alive who flew a 262 is Eric Brown. He also flew the Meteor so he really is the person to ask.

Jambock_Dolfo
05-28-2006, 02:30 PM
I can't speak for the 262, but a good friend flew the 110. When asked specifically about recoil and muzzle flashes, he stated very positively there was NO recoil whatsoever (mind that 110 is a bit heavier than most single engine fighters) and NO muzzle flashes... He even stated that he did not use tracer rounds when asked about flashes, tracers were only good to let the enemy know he was being fired at, he said http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . But, very positively he repeated, no gun flashes nor shake...
Just my 2c

-dolfo

leitmotiv
05-29-2006, 12:55 AM
I think you ought to post your excellent information on the B OF BRIT wants thread, Jambock_Dolfo. Oleg ought to see this.

Choctaw111
05-29-2006, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I think you ought to post your excellent information on the B OF BRIT wants thread, Jambock_Dolfo. Oleg ought to see this.

What Oleg should do is have a talk one on one with that friend of Jambock_Dolfo and that should settle it.

Jambock_Dolfo
05-29-2006, 05:19 AM
Well, I believe Oleg's mind is set about this point... It is a matter of interpretation, and can be subjective. Imagine if on a conversation the man just says "you is blind, be sure. close those eyes forever and never talk about flash again" (just kidding here). But information is out there, lots of J├┬Ągers still around. If one wants find it he will. But remember the dreaded fw190 bar, the nose-down attitude et all. Some things never change I guess?
We can only hope... And have fun, it's just a game!
A very good one, but still a computer game! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

-dolfo

Xiolablu3
05-29-2006, 05:38 AM
Me110 is a heavy fighter and there is minimal recoil in the game now even when using the 3.7mm cannon!

What exactly needs changing on the Me110 from this new evidence?

Jambock_Dolfo
05-29-2006, 05:47 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Me110 is a heavy fighter and there is minimal recoil in the game now even when using the 3.7mm cannon!

What exactly needs changing on the Me110 from this new evidence?
Nothing, I suppose?
I don't know how the flash is moddeled on the 110 nowadays too... As a matter of fact I haven't played the game nor have it installed on my pc for over a year. Still saving up to buy a new gaming machine.

-dolfo

Xiolablu3
05-29-2006, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by Jambock_Dolfo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Me110 is a heavy fighter and there is minimal recoil in the game now even when using the 3.7mm cannon!

What exactly needs changing on the Me110 from this new evidence?
Nothing, I suppose?
I don't know how the flash is moddeled on the 110 nowadays too... As a matter of fact I haven't played the game nor have it installed on my pc for over a year. Still saving up to buy a new gaming machine.

-dolfo </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually Dolfo, you have reminded me about the Mk108 cannon on the Me110 right now. There is so much flash that its hard to see where you are aiming.

Did you friend ever fly the Me110 with the Mk108 cannon on it?

Would be interesting to know what the flash was like for that as that DOES inhibit your aim in the game.

I forgot about this because I never take the Mk108 on the 110 for this very reason, I usually take it for the 3.7mm tank buster so that we can take the enemies tanks out quickly in online maps. If you take the Mk108 + 3.7mm cannon you cannot fire them seperately and the muzzle flash from the Mk108 makes aiming with the 3.7mm impossible.

Can you ask your friend if he ever used the Mk108 and what that was like if he did?

CD_kp84yb
05-29-2006, 02:01 PM
xiolablu , have you tried the 20mm gunpod on the 110??? its blinding, it still has the old flashes (hahaha) and the gunpod is under the belly of the plane.
Nice gamegimmick but it angers my neighbours ( who live 50meters away) when i fire that pod, the whole city i live in lights up, so i have to close the curtains. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Jambock_Dolfo
05-30-2006, 07:17 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:


Actually Dolfo, you have reminded me about the Mk108 cannon on the Me110 right now. There is so much flash that its hard to see where you are aiming.

...

Can you ask your friend if he ever used the Mk108 and what that was like if he did?

Did that already. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

He used the 3cm gun, yes, the mk108. But he disliked it a lot. On his first 108 victim he shot himself down also. Stated that the 108 was dangerous to the shooter, because it ripped the enemy plane apart, causing a lot of very large debris to hit his own 110. I do not remember if he parachuted or force-landed after this one. He said the gun was far too powerful, 20mm was more than enough, and a lot safer since he always fired from a very close distance (range always under 80m). So he had the 30mm replaced for 20mm on his next plane.

-dolfo