PDA

View Full Version : making more enemies than friends online



brimigus
09-19-2007, 10:14 AM
Lately I've been making more enemies than friends online. Players take their online kills very serious nowadays and I would like to know if I am breaking the unwritten rule of kill stealing. This is an unedited NTRK of a server I play almost exclusively and because I use lots of the multiple views I don't always see what others are seeing. Would like some feed back if you think I am totally in the wrong thanks.

http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=3031

HayateAce
09-19-2007, 11:14 AM
There is no such thing as kill stealing. However, it is excellent practice to jump in front of someone rather than to shoulder shoot. This way you snake the kill and they get shot down by his buddies, then you RTB and bag the points.

SeaFireLIV
09-19-2007, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
There is no such thing as kill stealing. However, it is excellent practice to jump in front of someone rather than to shoulder shoot. This way you snake the kill and they get shot down by his buddies, then you RTB and bag the points.

Please don`t listen to this. He`s getting off on spouting rubbish and watching you become even more hated. the net brings the worse out of some. I`ll check the track and see what i think myself.

Comrade_Wubb
09-19-2007, 11:17 AM
Do you not get the points until you've RTB then?

fordfan25
09-19-2007, 11:35 AM
a good rules are if a friendly is engaged with a single enemy and has gotten hits or does not apear to be in bad danger let him deal with his target. if you realy want to help and not steal kill cover him from ABOVE. not 3 foot behind him lol. watch out for incomeing threats and keep an eye on him incase he gets into trouble. to many times in war clouds have i jumped a bandit and got good hits but had to pull up or roll of his six to lose E so i could finish him just to have some Ahole bottom feeder jump in and put the finishing hits in. it may take you a little while to see situations for what thay are. what i mean is it may look like your team mate is pulling off the bandit when in fact he may be just getting into a better position to land more hits. Dont be to kill hungry. being agressive is great but there is always to much of a good thing. here is a thread i made on the subject in the WC forums if you want to read up. now if its something like a FW190 in a turn fight with a spit ect then it would be kinda obviose the FW is in need of help. you justr have to devlope the experince to figure out whats what and use the best judgement you can.

http://www.war-clouds.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=2859

Von_Rat
09-19-2007, 12:03 PM
get on comms,


meaning use teamspeak if the server has it.

Whirlin_merlin
09-19-2007, 12:08 PM
OK I'm one of the admins who jioned the server during that trk.
At the time we were dealing with the guy who spawned in French markings at then started shooting at his own team.
In the first case with Klink, you were in the wrong. Klink was in a far better shooting position and his hits were connecting, he did the damage. Most of your shots fell short and actually endangered your team mate.
He was right to be miffed when you finished the smoker he had nailed.
In the second case it's harder to see what happened, the chat does record Preston damaging Cobra's controls b4 you fired, I'll have to look at it again, this is as far as I got with the track.
Very disapointed with his language though.
Off out now will look in more detail later.

carguy_
09-19-2007, 12:08 PM
...or try flying coops for starters.Once you feel you should join the elite, go for online wars.

Jaws2002
09-19-2007, 12:19 PM
Without even watching the track form different views i can tell you that you need to change your habits. Multiple times you went after the plane already hit and engaged by your friendly instead of checking your six or checking your buddy's six.
In the first encounter the German was already in defensive and engaged. you didn't need to attack him. You should have covered your buddy from above.

OF course after you attacked that plane you went on and chased his smoke around. Not cool. There was someone else there before you that probably wasted his ammo and overheat his engine to bring that German plane down there. You just jumped in and got the already cooked meal. Not cool.

Second plane was also engaged and fired upon when you started attacking him. You were so hungry for that kill that didn't care that you cut your teammate off and you didn't even notice that you were under fire yourself. You should have covered your team mate from that second plane and not jump on his target.
The last one is really over the top.
That guy you just cut off and stole his target, came back to cover you. he chased away the 109 on your six and what was your "tank you"?
You shot the plane he just took off your six.
Not Coo.
Honestly. You need to change your attitude. You came here claiming that people care too much for their kills. Well you are the one that will do anything for a kill and is YOU that has to change.

UK Dedicated team is absolutely awesome and their people in their servers will help each other a lot. Don't ruin it for them. They don't deserve it.

Sorry this may sound a bit harsh but i think you should try to change before too many people make a bad impression about yourself online.
Is easier to change your attitude/style online, then change the opinion of 100 people about you.

I suggest you make some changes. Try to fly for a week in a supporting role. One week fly with the goal of helping your team mates. It can be rewarding.
Also try to look around and check your six more. Specially when you are chasing a bad guy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyway. Good luck. Is great that you came here asking what we think about it. This is a good start. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

SeaFireLIV
09-19-2007, 12:28 PM
Well, had a look. twice.

On your first kill, the guy already on the target had the right of way. You should have shadowed and helped if he lost the bogey and did not look like he was going to recover. You came in too quick shooting. A kill-steal basically. No need to chase and finish if I saw that right.

The second one where you were chased is a bit iffy. The friendly got him off you, then you turned and shot him down. Hard to tell who had the right there. The guy behind(Preston?) didn`t really have him. It seemed to me that you BOTH helped taking down the enemy. Sometimes a kill is the work of 2 not 1. I would call it shared.

On the last one, preston should have let you land. Instead (because of the perceived kill steal) he went on the run way as you landed and fired at you causing a collison. Stupid.


conclusion.
In all honesty, you didn`t do anything really terrible, it was more just a mistake. The team killer elsewhere was the greater problem. I think everyone got just a little bit TOO precious about their kills when they should be concentrating on teamwork and success in beating the enemy. A classic symptom of players thinking only about POINTS SCORING.

Getting rid of identifying icons would help too. Too many players using it as an excuse for vendettas and accusations.

DKoor
09-19-2007, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
There is no such thing as kill stealing. However, it is excellent practice to jump in front of someone rather than to shoulder shoot. This way you snake the kill and they get shot down by his buddies, then you RTB and bag the points. Yes....to kill steal you need to...actually kill somethinghttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyway. What's the word, will the Oleg finally unpork our 109s mr.President?

general_kalle
09-19-2007, 01:28 PM
theese might not be the best way but this is the way i deal with it.

1. dont shoulder shoot. this is dangerous due to the chance of shooting down your buddy,
besides you got better things to do.

2. if you have more speed than your buddy chasing the enemy plane you have, if you consider you and your buddy as a team,
the best oppetunity of getting the enemy as you can quickly catch up and pose a good close shot,
remember to get infront of your buddy and pick him off, not behind as this is shoulder shooting,
and pray your freind wont shoulder shoot as this will leave you in a risk of getting hit


if your buddy is very close to the enemy dont go infront of him, best to avoid collision.

3. if you shoulder shoot its still not kill Stealing, its just a very bad teamwork, and a bad way to get kills, better to cover your freiend

4. kill stealing is only if you put bullets in a already De'winged plane or a burning plane as this is already "killed"
if you put bullets in it you might get the Credits for it and THAT is kill stealing.

russ.nl
09-19-2007, 01:51 PM
Keep your cool is all I can say. Look at the situation for can all be different. These are the guide lines I try to follow online.
If your teammate is really in a fight with the target just loiter above and cover. If he shoots of a wing/tail, shoots him on fire or the target is going down... DO NOT TOUCH! If your teammate leaves because of no more ammo or fried engine, dive in for the kill your teammate should have finnished him by then.
If there is B&Z going on it is one for all and all for one I think. Do it in one go or wait your turn.
Or ofcourse when attacking bombers it is pretty normal for multiple fighters to attack the same bomber. Then it is just the first one that scoures a fatal hit gets the kill and the rest should back off.

Your 2nd kill was more like perfect teamwork.

Waldo.Pepper
09-19-2007, 04:10 PM
I've been making more enemies than friends online

It's a bad neighbourhood to begin with. Everyone carries guns there.

Whirlin_merlin
09-19-2007, 04:26 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Well, had a look. twice.

On your first kill, the guy already on the target had the right of way. You should have shadowed and helped if he lost the bogey and did not look like he was going to recover. You came in too quick shooting. A kill-steal basically. No need to chase and finish if I saw that right.

The second one where you were chased is a bit iffy. The friendly got him off you, then you turned and shot him down. Hard to tell who had the right there. The guy behind(Preston?) didn`t really have him. It seemed to me that you BOTH helped taking down the enemy. Sometimes a kill is the work of 2 not 1. I would call it shared.

On the last one, preston should have let you land. Instead (because of the perceived kill steal) he went on the run way as you landed and fired at you causing a collison. Stupid.


conclusion.
In all honesty, you didn`t do anything really terrible, it was more just a mistake. The team killer elsewhere was the greater problem. I think everyone got just a little bit TOO precious about their kills when they should be concentrating on teamwork and success in beating the enemy. A classic symptom of players thinking only about POINTS SCORING.

Getting rid of identifying icons would help too. Too many players using it as an excuse for vendettas and accusations.

Have to say thatafter viewing in more detail I agree with Seafire's assesment. Except about the icons, we like them for friendlies on UK2.
I wish the loonie teamkiller hadn't distracted the admins, mind you it was us he was shooting at!
BTW TY Jaws for your words but I have to warn people if Jaws is on our server and flying against you in a P47 then, UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO NEAR HIM, he's deadly!
Also TY to Stone (long time no see in UK2 m8) and others with good advice.

Lastly a reminder to brimigus, firstly the unwritten rule of killstealing is clearly written in the UKD rules, secondly the fact that you ask these questions is a good thing we do have our own forums. www.battle-fields.com (http://www.battle-fields.com)


~S~ [BFs]Whirlin

VW-IceFire
09-19-2007, 08:22 PM
So few people do it but really the unwritten rule should be that if one person is attacking a target everyone else nearby is responsible for covering him. Period. You don't help anyone by firing at the same target at the same time. That makes life harder for the first guy and means that both of you are now exposed to the targets teammates. So instead of one target the enemy team has two targets now because both of you are now jockeying for one target which means that concentration is purely on the target and trying not to crash into each other.

The ONLY time you would participate in a group attack on a target is if your in direct communication (best if this is TeamSpeak or Roger Wilco or some sort of voice comms) with the other attackers. And even in this situation nobody is ever attacking at the same time...it is always a one guy on target one repositioning and then swap.

So basically just remember this: only one set of guns on target, everyone else has a head on the swivel.