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View Full Version : And the winner for best all-time fighter is....



HayateAce
03-10-2006, 02:45 AM
With a win record of 104 to 0, I give you the American Eagle. Thanks to Havok for his exhaustive and painstaking research. Congrats to all the runners-up, you're all winners in my eyes.


http://personal.auna.com/ptma/imagenes/f15.jpg

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-10-2006, 02:52 AM
om lol wtf spitfire PWNZ eagle

tigertalon
03-10-2006, 02:59 AM
Best at bragging and at bragger support sure it is.

Brain32
03-10-2006, 03:42 AM
Finally a sane post by HayateAce, and the picture is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Breeze147
03-10-2006, 11:56 AM
I think the Sopwith Camel won the war. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

Treetop64
03-10-2006, 12:22 PM
They don't call F-15 pilots "Ego Drivers" for nothing!

(as opposed to "Eagle Drivers")

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-10-2006, 12:25 PM
Muhammed Ali


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

fordfan25
03-10-2006, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by Treetop64:
They don't call F-15 pilots "Ego Drivers" for nothing!

(as opposed to "Eagle Drivers")

when your the best you CAN brag http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

Xiolablu3
03-10-2006, 12:30 PM
WHat is the kill list of the F15??

Were they contemporary planes?

I think advanced missles and computers has a lot to do with things these days.

Even if a plane is faster and more manouvrable, if the other one can see and kill him 100miles before, then who cares HOW fast the other one is, hes going to lose.

These days we dont iknow if its the plane, the radar, the computer or the missiles which made the victory.

Still I guess todays warplane is a mixture of all those things.

LUFT11_Hoflich
03-10-2006, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHat is the kill list of the F15??

Were they contemporary planes?

I think advanced missles and computers has a lot to do with things these days.

Even if a plane is faster and more manouvrable, if the other one can see and kill him 100miles before, then who cares HOW fast the other one is, hes going to lose.

These days we dont iknow if its the plane, the radar, the computer or the missiles which made the victory.

Still I guess todays warplane is a mixture of all those things.

IMHO

Technological superiority wins, where's the excitement or honor in fighting an enemy you can't see or can't see you? Unlike the old birds, even an obsolete biplane had a chance against a superior fighter, because both nedded to get within a few hundred meters or closer to ger a kill.

There's no way to compare Old birds kill ratio with new ones.

just my 2 cents.
H¶f... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

faustnik
03-10-2006, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Brain32:
Finally a sane post by HayateAce, and the picture is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I know he's going to turn this into a "LW is overmodeled" thread, I just haven't figured out how yet. Hmmm......

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Great pic! What a record! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Xiolablu3
03-10-2006, 01:03 PM
Harriers in the Falklands war had a perfect kill records vs Argentinian fighters. The HArrier was great down low, and the Argentinnians were good up high. All pilots were brave, highly trained and their planes were fast modern jets. However this never came into play :-

The Harriers had Sidewinders and the Argentinians did not. (Thanks Yanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Case closed. (23 to 0)

Very much like the F15 vs whatever scenario I would suspect.

HayateAce
03-10-2006, 01:07 PM
Just in on CNN, Oleg's new K4 just shot down an F15 on Hyperlobby without even being on the same server. NOW, tell me 109 isn't for klowns.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

(How's that Faust?)

jarink
03-10-2006, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Muhammed Ali


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Ah, you beat me to the punch! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHat is the kill list of the F15??

Were they contemporary planes?

I think advanced missles and computers has a lot to do with things these days.

Even if a plane is faster and more manouvrable, if the other one can see and kill him 100miles before, then who cares HOW fast the other one is, hes going to lose.

These days we dont iknow if its the plane, the radar, the computer or the missiles which made the victory.

Still I guess todays warplane is a mixture of all those things.

That's the whole point. The F-15 is an entire package and so has much of it's opposition. F-15s have made BVR kills and mixed it up in dogfights and still has always come out on top. Probably the most advanced F-15 kills were against MiG-29s and Mirage F-1s in Iraq. Throw in the great mud moving prowess of the F-15E (which still retains a first-rate air-to-air capability) and it's a winner all around.

faustnik
03-10-2006, 01:14 PM
HA! Perfect! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-10-2006, 01:35 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Harriers in the Falklands war had a perfect kill records vs Argentinian fighters. The HArrier was great down low, and the Argentinnians were good up high. All pilots were brave, highly trained and their planes were fast modern jets. However this never came into play :-

The Harriers had Sidewinders and the Argentinians did not. (Thanks Yanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Case closed. (23 to 0)

Very much like the F15 vs whatever scenario I would suspect.

When talking about the SHAR in the Falklands you have to remember that, due to the extreme range at which they were operating, the Argentine pilots were under orders NOT TO ENGAGE THE FAA CAP.

Interesting to point out here, though, that, in simulated combat the SHAR had a 7-1 kill ratio vs the F-15

Xiolablu3
03-10-2006, 01:45 PM
Are you sure about that>?

I watched an interview with a Harrier pilot who explained an engagement. It went something like this...


Our HArriers excelled down low and their (whatevers) excelled up high. We therefore stalked each other for while, them hoping we would go up to fight.

We waited it out and finally they came down to attack...


This suggests there were definite Air2Air engagements?

Xiolablu3
03-10-2006, 01:50 PM
Searching for HArrier info I found this Sim which looks pretty sweet!!

http://www.thunder-works.com/news.htm


Harriers vs Mirages over the Falklands.

Phas3e
03-10-2006, 02:06 PM
I would like to wsee a list of the F-15s kills just out of interests sake,
I dont care if they were old tech or not..

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-10-2006, 02:10 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Are you sure about that>?

I watched an interview with a Harrier pilot who explained an engagement. It went something like this...


Our HArriers excelled down low and their (whatevers) excelled up high. We therefore stalked each other for while, them hoping we would go up to fight.

We waited it out and finally they came down to attack...


This suggests there were definite Air2Air engagements?

There was very limited A2A action during the early phases of the war (including the incident you describe) however the vast majority of the attacks on the Task Force were performed by Argentine air force and Naval aviation at VERY low level (to avoid British radar and missile systems) and this flight envelope caused them to burn a LOT of fuel - not helped by the fact that the Argentine air force had precisely two (!) KC-130 tankers. They simply didn't have the fuel to tangle with the RN (I'll avoid using Fleet air Arm since FAA was also the abbreviation for the Argentine Air Force)

" The Argentines quickly realized after their first
attacks on the British fleet that they would have to fly
low and fast if they were to survive the threat of anti-
aircraft guns, missiles and Harriers with their AIM 9-L's.
Above 50 feet, the pilots felt they could be shot down."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/DWF.htm

Xiolablu3
03-10-2006, 02:22 PM
Great read that document Snapdlike, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-10-2006, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Searching for HArrier info I found this Sim which looks pretty sweet!!

http://www.thunder-works.com/news.htm


Harriers vs Mirages over the Falklands.

That looks awesome http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I imagine steering an A4 at 500kts, 50' above the deck while being the target for every SAM, AAA and SHAR in the Task Force would really seperate the men from the boys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

danjama
03-10-2006, 02:47 PM
Jets suck.

Note the full stop i placed at the end of that, it means no disputing.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-10-2006, 02:54 PM
Originally posted by danjama:
Jets suck.


Well played! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

waffen-79
03-10-2006, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHat is the kill list of the F15??

Were they contemporary planes?

I think advanced missles and computers has a lot to do with things these days.

Even if a plane is faster and more manouvrable, if the other one can see and kill him 100miles before, then who cares HOW fast the other one is, hes going to lose.

These days we dont iknow if its the plane, the radar, the computer or the missiles which made the victory.

Still I guess todays warplane is a mixture of all those things.

So true

I wonder how they'll do without the AWACS or GPS Support

fordfan25
03-10-2006, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Muhammed Ali


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif i dont think youd ever see that draft dodger in a war http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

fordfan25
03-10-2006, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by waffen-79:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHat is the kill list of the F15??

Were they contemporary planes?

I think advanced missles and computers has a lot to do with things these days.

Even if a plane is faster and more manouvrable, if the other one can see and kill him 100miles before, then who cares HOW fast the other one is, hes going to lose.

These days we dont iknow if its the plane, the radar, the computer or the missiles which made the victory.

Still I guess todays warplane is a mixture of all those things.

So true

I wonder how they'll do without the AWACS or GPS Support </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
probly like the 109 did in BoB with no fuel http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

msalama
03-10-2006, 04:45 PM
All-time best? IRL?

Has to be what's known in this game as the weenie-machine. Y'know, the n00b-starmaker, the schoolboy-plane, the vulcher's wet dream, the AC for t3H m3Nt4Llü cH4lL3nG3D.

Namely, the 109. It had the longest run of them all. First flight in 1935, still in service when the war ended.

And a dedicated & fanatical Sturmo driver here saying this too http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

fordfan25
03-10-2006, 04:46 PM
noob fighter? OooOOOOOoOooo you mean the la-7

msalama
03-10-2006, 04:51 PM
OooOOOOOoOooo you mean the la-7
No I don't. N00b.

fordfan25
03-10-2006, 05:15 PM
.yes you do. hayyyy i see you registerd in 2005 and have a post count of 1333....coughn00bcough. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Grue_
03-10-2006, 05:21 PM
A 109 could easily out turn an F-15. It's more economical too.

danjama
03-10-2006, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by SnapdLikeAMutha:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
Jets suck.


Well played! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thankyou Sir!

Daiichidoku
03-10-2006, 07:28 PM
id prefer being in a tomcat with 100mile+ intercept phoenix AAMs

wayno7777
03-10-2006, 08:49 PM
It ain't braggin' if you do it....

fordfan25
03-10-2006, 09:01 PM
Originally posted by Grue_:
A 109 could easily out turn an F-15. It's more economical too. lets see it out turn a F22 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but at any rate the f15 would B&Z the 109 at will makeing the 109 a bi***

Kocur_
03-11-2006, 04:43 AM
Can someone remind me results of simulated fights of F-15s vs. Indian Su-30s a while ago? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif Guys, just keep producing them F-22s! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-11-2006, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by Kocur_:
Can someone remind me results of simulated fights of F-15s vs. Indian Su-30s a while ago? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif Guys, just keep producing them F-22s! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You mean the ones where the USAF were outnumbered about 3-1 and didn't have the use of much of their equipment?

Skii_
03-11-2006, 06:05 AM
<ahem>

http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb....topic;f=142;t=002603 (http://www.simhq.com/simhq3/sims/boards/bbs/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=142;t=002603)

Viper2005_
03-11-2006, 06:49 AM
SHAR all the way. It ate the Aggressor squadron for breakfast, then it crushed the F-15. And yes, they tried to use Sparrows against it. No dice.

"Sharkey" Ward's book is a real eye opener.

The FA.2 version had AMRAAMs as well, which would probably have made the result all the more conclusive.

It's a shame the idiots in Government have taken it out of service.

I suppose Bliar has concrete intelligence that nobody is going to start a war with us until JSF arrives...

RegRag1977
03-11-2006, 06:58 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Harriers in the Falklands war had a perfect kill records vs Argentinian fighters. The HArrier was great down low, and the Argentinnians were good up high. All pilots were brave, highly trained and their planes were fast modern jets. However this never came into play :-

The Harriers had Sidewinders and the Argentinians did not. (Thanks Yanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

Case closed. (23 to 0)

Very much like the F15 vs whatever scenario I would suspect.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gifI don't know anything about modern fighters...
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifYour post is interesting: i never thought that technology would have take such importance.
Machines seems to be the real winners in the new wars...
Could the conclusion of your post be that modern pilot is not the most important thing in modern air air combat?
I would like to know what are the qualities requiered to be a modern jet pilot, comparing to a second world war one? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Regards! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-11-2006, 07:09 AM
It's still about the man in the machine, not the other way round.

The FAA SHAR pilots are VERY good, due to the intricacies of the vectored-thrust system I believe most if not all of them are taken from the ranks of rotary-wing rather than fixed-wing pilots

VF aircraft can do a lot of things in ACM that other planes can't, but in certain other respects the SHAR have much lower performance than other aircraft, so you still need a pilot who knows what he's doing and knows his kite inside out in order to get the best out of the system.

LStarosta
03-11-2006, 07:42 AM
I've never been shot down in my Cessna 152, b*tches!

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

LStarosta
03-11-2006, 07:42 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

huggy87
03-11-2006, 09:06 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHat is the kill list of the F15??

Were they contemporary planes?

I think advanced missles and computers has a lot to do with things these days.

Even if a plane is faster and more manouvrable, if the other one can see and kill him 100miles before, then who cares HOW fast the other one is, hes going to lose.

These days we dont iknow if its the plane, the radar, the computer or the missiles which made the victory.

Still I guess todays warplane is a mixture of all those things.

A common misconception. True, we have missiles and software that make killing easier, but the other guys have them too. Modern fighter is absolutely unforgiving.

huggy87
03-11-2006, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by SnapdLikeAMutha:


Interesting to point out here, though, that, in simulated combat the SHAR had a 7-1 kill ratio vs the F-15

Another skewed fact. We quite often fly "red air" for each other, in which we simulate the tactics of our potential enemies. Thus, the eagles would tie their hands and simulate a third world flown Mig-29. The Harriers would do the same for the eagles. I assure you, if both sides went full up blue v. blue, the eagle would usually come out ahead. The few sea harrier pilots I've known would laugh at the 7-1 kill ratio. It's about like the first string bragging that the beat the second string team at practice 7 to 1 times.

Viper2005_
03-11-2006, 10:34 AM
I think that in the context of modern warfare a lot depends upon the rules of engagement; they can often be a great equaliser!

BTW, the 7:1 kill ratio claim was made in two pairs fights against F-15s simulating Sparrows (E models), Sidewinders and guns. The SHARs were simulating no radar, Sidewinders and guns, but had their radar warning receivers fitted. The aircraft started 40 miles apart and made a headon merge.

A key point is that the SHAR had help from a ground based radar station.

Given that this took place before the Falklands conflict it is likely that the SHARs were simulating rear aspect only sidewinders, rather than L models.

As one one of the fights took place over the Bristol Channel it is possible that supersonics were allowed.

SnapdLikeAMutha
03-11-2006, 10:50 AM
http://www.combatsim.com/printer.php?action=review&id=603&page=1

Yep.

A most interesting thing is that Ward told the F5E Aggressors precisely what tactics they would be using, prior to the second encounter. Even with this knowledge, the SHAR were succesful.

THAT is how revolutionary the Harrier was.

fordfan25
03-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by SnapdLikeAMutha:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kocur_:
Can someone remind me results of simulated fights of F-15s vs. Indian Su-30s a while ago? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif Guys, just keep producing them F-22s! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You mean the ones where the USAF were outnumbered about 3-1 and didn't have the use of much of their equipment? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>yea those http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Xiolablu3
03-11-2006, 11:11 AM
Surely a Harrier has no chance vs a F15 in full no holds barred combat.

I always thought the Harrier made a lot of concessions to be VSTOL, it cant even go supersonic can it?

Its a fantastic club to have in the bag and an amazing plane to support ground troops from the front where there are no airfields (it can operate from anywhere).

BUT I never thought it could compete as a full on fighter. Maybe I am wrong?

GR142-Pipper
03-11-2006, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by HayateAce:
Just in on CNN, Oleg's new K4 just shot down an F15 on Hyperlobby without even being on the same server. NOW, tell me 109 isn't for klowns.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

(How's that Faust?) Furthermore, the server K4 was on wasn't even turned on and it still did it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

GR142-Pipper

GR142-Pipper
03-11-2006, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
id prefer being in a tomcat with 100mile+ intercept phoenix AAMs Me too.

GR142-Pipper

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-11-2006, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHat is the kill list of the F15??

Were they contemporary planes?

I think advanced missles and computers has a lot to do with things these days.

Even if a plane is faster and more manouvrable, if the other one can see and kill him 100miles before, then who cares HOW fast the other one is, hes going to lose.

These days we dont iknow if its the plane, the radar, the computer or the missiles which made the victory.

Still I guess todays warplane is a mixture of all those things.

Fly Lomac online in Hyperlobby and you tell me. Tell me its easy. Tell me its all missles and radar. But then explain to me why you cant seem to get a kill no matter what plane you fly. No matter if your in the Flanker or the Eagle you will be shot down repeatedly by superior pilots.

The myth that modern dogfighting is easy obviously never flown a real jet sim against equal or better opponenets.

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-11-2006, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
id prefer being in a tomcat with 100mile+ intercept phoenix AAMs Me too.

GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they were not retired that is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BfHeFwMe
03-11-2006, 08:01 PM
More than half of all claims are Isreali, first kills were bagged as five Syrian Mig-21's on a little trip to knock out the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981.

Then bagged dozens of Mig-23's over Syrian occupied Lebanon, the famous Bekaa Valley Turkey shoot, which in actuality wasn't so turkey. It happened over enemy occupied grounds littered with the latest in SAM hardware, and they were outnumbered most of the time. Only saving grace was SAM's inability to assist due to too many friendlies up there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

At least one or two Eagles were lost due to SAM's. Kills were all made within visual range with winders and guns. Remember this was 82, third gen hardware was barely introduced, so the fight was pretty much even technologically, although the 23 lacked manouverability and the visability bites among other things. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

But basically, yeah, they got their @zz'z handed to them in a big way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

msalama
03-11-2006, 10:59 PM
.yes you do. hayyyy i see you registerd in 2005 and have a post count of 1333....coughn00bcough. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Hey, that's 666 x 2 and a bit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-12-2006, 01:39 PM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
More than half of all claims are Isreali, first kills were bagged as five Syrian Mig-21's on a little trip to knock out the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981.

Then bagged dozens of Mig-23's over Syrian occupied Lebanon, the famous Bekaa Valley Turkey shoot, which in actuality wasn't so turkey. It happened over enemy occupied grounds littered with the latest in SAM hardware, and they were outnumbered most of the time. Only saving grace was SAM's inability to assist due to too many friendlies up there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

At least one or two Eagles were lost due to SAM's. Kills were all made within visual range with winders and guns. Remember this was 82, third gen hardware was barely introduced, so the fight was pretty much even technologically, although the 23 lacked manouverability and the visability bites among other things. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

But basically, yeah, they got their @zz'z handed to them in a big way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

First of all they are not claims but facts. About 80 of those kills were achieved by Isreali pilots. And we are talking air to air engagements not how many been lost to surface to air attack.

Reguardless of what excuses those like you come up with it does not change the fact that the F-15 has the best combat record of all time. Its combat proven through and through.

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-12-2006, 01:47 PM
The F-15 Eagle is the most capable multirole fighter in the world. The F-15 entered service in 1974.
The F-15 Eagle has a perfect combat record of 101 victories and zero defeats. F-15s downed four Mig-29 fighters during the recent Balkan conflict and 33 of the 35 fixed-wing aircraft Iraq lost in air combat during Operation Desert Storm. During the Balkan conflict, the F-15E was the only fighter able to attack ground targets around the clock, in all weather conditions.

The Eagle's air superiority is achieved through a mixture of unprecedented maneuverability and acceleration, range, weapons and avionics. It can penetrate enemy defense and outperform and outfight any current enemy aircraft. The F-15 has electronic systems and weaponry to detect, acquire, track and attack enemy aircraft while operating in friendly or enemy-controlled airspace. The weapons and flight control systems are designed so one person can safely and effectively perform air-to-air combat.

The F-15's superior maneuverability and acceleration are achieved through high engine thrust-to-weight ratio and low wing loading. Low wing-loading (the ratio of aircraft weight to its wing area) is a vital factor in maneuverability and, combined with the high thrust-to-weight ratio, enables the aircraft to turn tightly without losing airspeed.

A multimission avionics system sets the F-15 apart from other fighter aircraft. It includes a head-up display, advanced radar, inertial navigation system, flight instruments, ultrahigh frequency communications, tactical navigation system and instrument landing system. It also has an internally mounted, tactical electronic-warfare system, "identification friend or foe" system, electronic countermeasures set and a central digital computer.

The head-up display projects on the windscreen all essential flight information gathered by the integrated avionics system. This display, visible in any light condition, provides the pilot information necessary to track and destroy an enemy aircraft without having to look down at cockpit instruments.

The F-15's versatile pulse-Doppler radar system can look up at high-flying targets and down at low-flying targets without being confused by ground clutter. It can detect and track aircraft and small high-speed targets at distances beyond visual range down to close range, and at altitudes down to treetop level. The radar feeds target information into the central computer for effective weapons delivery. For close-in dogfights, the radar automatically acquires enemy aircraft, and this information is projected on the head-up display. The F-15's electronic warfare system provides both threat warning and automatic countermeasures against selected threats.

A variety of air-to-air weaponry can be carried by the F-15. An automated weapon system enables the pilot to perform aerial combat safely and effectively, using the head-up display and the avionics and weapons controls located on the engine throttles or control stick. When the pilot changes from one weapon system to another, visual guidance for the required weapon automatically appears on the head-up display.

The Eagle can be armed with combinations of four different air-to-air weapons: AIM-7F/M Sparrow missiles or AIM-120 advanced medium range air-to-air missiles on its lower fuselage corners, AIM-9L/M Sidewinder or AIM-120 missiles on two pylons under the wings, and an internal 20mm Gatling gun in the right wing root.

Low-drag, conformal fuel tanks were especially developed for the F-15C and D models. Conformal fuel tanks can be attached to the sides of the engine air intake trunks under each wing and are designed to the same load factors and airspeed limits as the basic aircraft. Each conformal fuel tank contains about 114 cubic feet of usable space. These tanks reduce the need for in-flight refueling on global missions and increase time in the combat area. All external stations for munitions remain available with the tanks in use. AIM-7F/M Sparrow missiles, moreover, can be attached to the corners of the conformal fuel tanks.

The F-15E is a two-seat, dual-role, totally integrated fighter for all-weather, air-to-air and deep interdiction missions. The rear cockpit is upgraded to include four multi-purpose CRT displays for aircraft systems and weapons management. The digital, triple-redundant Lear Siegler flight control system permits coupled automatic terrain following, enhanced by a ring-laser gyro inertial navigation system.

For low-altitude, high-speed penetration and precision attack on tactical targets at night or in adverse weather, the F-15E carries a high-resolution APG-70 radar and low-altitude navigation and targeting infrared for night pods.

Speed:1,875 mph (Mach 2.5 plus)
Ceiling:65,000 feet (19,812 meters)
Range: 3,450 miles (3,000 nautical miles) ferry range with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks

BfHeFwMe
03-12-2006, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
More than half of all claims are Isreali, first kills were bagged as five Syrian Mig-21's on a little trip to knock out the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981.

Then bagged dozens of Mig-23's over Syrian occupied Lebanon, the famous Bekaa Valley Turkey shoot, which in actuality wasn't so turkey. It happened over enemy occupied grounds littered with the latest in SAM hardware, and they were outnumbered most of the time. Only saving grace was SAM's inability to assist due to too many friendlies up there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

At least one or two Eagles were lost due to SAM's. Kills were all made within visual range with winders and guns. Remember this was 82, third gen hardware was barely introduced, so the fight was pretty much even technologically, although the 23 lacked manouverability and the visability bites among other things. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

But basically, yeah, they got their @zz'z handed to them in a big way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

First of all they are not claims but facts. About 80 of those kills were achieved by Isreali pilots. And we are talking air to air engagements not how many been lost to surface to air attack.

Reguardless of what excuses those like you come up with it does not change the fact that the F-15 has the best combat record of all time. Its combat proven through and through. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Uhmm, excuse me, but how can you possibly see that post as a put down of the Eagle? And yes, it is a fact the Isreali's "Claim" credit for those kills.

Chill out... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Xiolablu3
03-12-2006, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
WHat is the kill list of the F15??

Were they contemporary planes?

I think advanced missles and computers has a lot to do with things these days.

Even if a plane is faster and more manouvrable, if the other one can see and kill him 100miles before, then who cares HOW fast the other one is, hes going to lose.

These days we dont iknow if its the plane, the radar, the computer or the missiles which made the victory.

Still I guess todays warplane is a mixture of all those things.

Fly Lomac online in Hyperlobby and you tell me. Tell me its easy. Tell me its all missles and radar. But then explain to me why you cant seem to get a kill no matter what plane you fly. No matter if your in the Flanker or the Eagle you will be shot down repeatedly by superior pilots.

The myth that modern dogfighting is easy obviously never flown a real jet sim against equal or better opponenets. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Easy? I never said it was easy did I?

I have never played LOMAC but I suspect someone with a lot of experience working the onboard computer will win most of the time, not the guy who can fly the plane most impressively (aerobatically) such as before missiles were used.

Thats all I was trying to say, its DIFFERENT.

I am sure if I took the time to master all the buttons, weapons, computers etc in Lock On I could do OK, but its just not my thing. Obviously a noob will get shot down a lot, just like this game.

GR142-Pipper
03-13-2006, 02:28 AM
Originally posted by VMF-214_HaVoK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142-Pipper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
id prefer being in a tomcat with 100mile+ intercept phoenix AAMs Me too.

GR142-Pipper </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If they were not retired that is http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>True. The Navy has replaced the A-6 Intruder and is replacing the F-14 Tomcat with the F-18. Yes, the F-18 is cheaper to operate but it's not a step forward in either aircraft's case. Go figure.

GR142-Pipper

GR142-Pipper
03-13-2006, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by BfHeFwMe:
More than half of all claims are Isreali, first kills were bagged as five Syrian Mig-21's on a little trip to knock out the Osirak nuclear reactor in Iraq in 1981.

Then bagged dozens of Mig-23's over Syrian occupied Lebanon, the famous Bekaa Valley Turkey shoot, which in actuality wasn't so turkey. It happened over enemy occupied grounds littered with the latest in SAM hardware, and they were outnumbered most of the time. Only saving grace was SAM's inability to assist due to too many friendlies up there. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

At least one or two Eagles were lost due to SAM's. Kills were all made within visual range with winders and guns. Remember this was 82, third gen hardware was barely introduced, so the fight was pretty much even technologically, although the 23 lacked manouverability and the visability bites among other things. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

But basically, yeah, they got their @zz'z handed to them in a big way. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif One of the big reasons for the Israeli's success was the combined use of E-2 Hawkeyes which the other side didn't have. It made a big difference.

GR142-Pipper