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mike_espo
10-21-2007, 12:24 PM
After a 3 year layoff, getting back into IL246 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I, unfortunately have only two online kills...it seems my shooting skills have deteriorated. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

I never understood in all the years of playing how the gunsight recticle could help with calculating deflection....I know it can calculate range in full switch servers....

Does anybody know??

thanks

Skunk_438RCAF
10-21-2007, 12:34 PM

Airmail109
10-21-2007, 01:34 PM
Deflection is a dark art.

For beginners try doubling the amount of deflection you make and walk the tracers into the airplane

Don't bother with learning the the mathematics of the gun sight.....shooting is a feeling that just clicks with practice

Lucius_Esox
10-21-2007, 02:21 PM
Don't bother with learning the the mathematics of the gun sight.....shooting is a feeling that just clicks with practice

Couldn't agree more.

Bearcat99
10-21-2007, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't bother with learning the the mathematics of the gun sight.....shooting is a feeling that just clicks with practice

Couldn't agree more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree less.... IMO while there is a great deal of instinct to gunnery.. the skill can be taught. In fact it was taught by the RAF, The USAAF and every other airforce. There are basic concepts that, if you know them you can hone those "feelings faster and develope the skills you need to survive like with anything else.

Darts video which is the one in the you tube link is an EXCELLENT tutorial on the subject... in fact Darts Page which can be found linked in the Essentials thread has several top notch tutorials that I highly recommend on skip bombing and gunnery as well as wingman pair tactics.

Sniper's Corner (http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC_2_Eng.zip) a nice utility to help get the angles aspect of A2A gunnery in your head, it is an Excell file.. - Gunnery at AW.C (http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwgunnery.htm)-A good explanation of the tool and what is does. Also this entire section at AW.C is a really good resource.

Lastly this info - Lutwaffe Gunnery manual @ Air Fronts (http://ww2airfronts.org/Flight%20School/transition/weaponsschool/revishoot.html), US Gunsights @ Air Fronts (http://ww2airfronts.org/Flight%20School/transition/weaponsschool/n3_9basics.html) and RAF Gunnery (http://www.sharedelight.com/ed20075d37ac647e2519d7600e3e0fdb) is all good to help get the concepts down in your head.. then those "feelings" can take over.

Airmail109
10-21-2007, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't bother with learning the the mathematics of the gun sight.....shooting is a feeling that just clicks with practice

Couldn't agree more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree less.... IMO while there is a great deal of instinct to gunnery.. the skill can be taught. In fact it was taught by the RAF, The USAAF and every other airforce. There are basic concepts that, if you know them you can hone those "feelings faster and develope the skills you need to survive like with anything else.

Darts video which is the one in the you tube link is an EXCELLENT tutorial on the subject... in fact Darts Page which can be found linked in the Essentials thread has several top notch tutorials that I highly recommend on skip bombing and gunnery as well as wingman pair tactics.

Sniper's Corner (http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC_2_Eng.zip) a nice utility to help get the angles aspect of A2A gunnery in your head, it is an Excell file.. - Gunnery at AW.C (http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwgunnery.htm)-A good explanation of the tool and what is does. Also this entire section at AW.C is a really good resource.

Lastly this info - Lutwaffe Gunnery manual @ Air Fronts (http://ww2airfronts.org/Flight%20School/transition/weaponsschool/revishoot.html), US Gunsights @ Air Fronts (http://ww2airfronts.org/Flight%20School/transition/weaponsschool/n3_9basics.html) and RAF Gunnery (http://www.sharedelight.com/ed20075d37ac647e2519d7600e3e0fdb) is all good to help get the concepts down in your head.. then those "feelings" can take over. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bear I think hes knows the basic concepts, I think this chaps trying to do mathematics in the air to calculate lead. I learnt all of that just through practice and feeling.....most of those are common sense anyway, theres no way in the middle of a fight your going to be consciously thinking...."right....Ill aim there" A manual cant tell you exactly where to place your shots.

Its just like clay pigeon shooting...track the line of flight with your gunsight....follow through the target....pull lead...shoot. Its that simple

DustyBarrels77
10-21-2007, 05:26 PM
just buy trackir and rudder pedals you will be a pro in minutes. Very nice video tutorial, in this game I think its much easier then the complex tutorial explains, but then again its taken from real life gunnery books, but it was done excellent so cheers to who ever made it.

mike_espo
10-21-2007, 05:46 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't bother with learning the the mathematics of the gun sight.....shooting is a feeling that just clicks with practice

Couldn't agree more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree less.... IMO while there is a great deal of instinct to gunnery.. the skill can be taught. In fact it was taught by the RAF, The USAAF and every other airforce. There are basic concepts that, if you know them you can hone those "feelings faster and develope the skills you need to survive like with anything else.

Darts video which is the one in the you tube link is an EXCELLENT tutorial on the subject... in fact Darts Page which can be found linked in the Essentials thread has several top notch tutorials that I highly recommend on skip bombing and gunnery as well as wingman pair tactics.

Sniper's Corner (http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC_2_Eng.zip) a nice utility to help get the angles aspect of A2A gunnery in your head, it is an Excell file.. - Gunnery at AW.C (http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwgunnery.htm)-A good explanation of the tool and what is does. Also this entire section at AW.C is a really good resource.

Lastly this info - Lutwaffe Gunnery manual @ Air Fronts (http://ww2airfronts.org/Flight%20School/transition/weaponsschool/revishoot.html), US Gunsights @ Air Fronts (http://ww2airfronts.org/Flight%20School/transition/weaponsschool/n3_9basics.html) and RAF Gunnery (http://www.sharedelight.com/ed20075d37ac647e2519d7600e3e0fdb) is all good to help get the concepts down in your head.. then those "feelings" can take over. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bear I think hes knows the basic concepts, I think this chaps trying to do mathematics in the air to calculate lead. I learnt all of that just through practice and feeling.....most of those are common sense anyway, theres no way in the middle of a fight your going to be consciously thinking...."right....Ill aim there" A manual cant tell you exactly where to place your shots.

Its just like clay pigeon shooting...track the line of flight with your gunsight....follow through the target....pull lead...shoot. Its that simple </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah I do know the basics, but I was wondering if the gunsight recticle circle can calculate lead if you know the distance.....say, for instance a P-38 is on the edge of the circle, and you estimate distance( or if iconed, you know)to be 100m, ect.... will this then hit the target?

Airmail109
10-21-2007, 05:50 PM
I don't know mate but I wouldn't even bother lol

Just go and select unlimited ammo in quick mission builder and set up a mission against 16 unarmed fighters

You could always use the P51 D20 which has a computerized gunsight for calculating lead, honestly I find it annoying though and more of a hindrance than anything. The F4Us gunsight is also quite helpful to line up some chasing deflection shots

mike_espo
10-21-2007, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
I don't know mate but I wouldn't even bother lol

Just go and select unlimited ammo in quick mission builder and set up a mission against 16 unarmed fighters

You could always use the P51 D20 which has a computerized gunsight for calculating lead, honestly I find it annoying though and more of a hindrance than anything. The F4Us gunsight is also quite helpful to line up some chasing deflection shots

Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Did not know that. Maybe I can get an idea of amount of deflection needed practicing with those sights.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
10-21-2007, 06:56 PM
Believe me... check that stuff out I linked.. particularly the US gunsights and RAF manual.. and of course Darts link... Of course you dont have the time to do the math.. but once you fully understand the principles which.. I didn't until I read those items... your shooting will be less than it could be.. or at the least you could make your practice sessions better.. How can you calculate lead in your head.. if you aren't sure of the distance or the AoT? Those things I linked will break it down... the P-51 K-14 sight is good too..

I remember you Mike.. I know you aretn green... but I have been flying in this sim since 2001... and I still found some good info. It certainly wont hurt.

Airmail109
10-21-2007, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by mike_espo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
I don't know mate but I wouldn't even bother lol

Just go and select unlimited ammo in quick mission builder and set up a mission against 16 unarmed fighters

You could always use the P51 D20 which has a computerized gunsight for calculating lead, honestly I find it annoying though and more of a hindrance than anything. The F4Us gunsight is also quite helpful to line up some chasing deflection shots

Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Did not know that. Maybe I can get an idea of amount of deflection needed practicing with those sights.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Its quite difficult to use, you'll have to assign buttons to it! I think the buttons you have to assign are confusingly the bombsite controls.

It works by selecting the type of enemy aircraft, then decreasing/increasing the reticle to fit the targets wingspan. The analogue computer takes this and a gyro to measure the rate of turn into account, to work out the amount of lead needed to hit the target.

strider1
10-21-2007, 07:07 PM
Hey, Mike!
You're quite right----sights were designed to allow estimation of distance form how much the target fills the sight from wing to wing.
Most U.S. and British sights are 100 mls across, meaning the when an average fighter wingspan touched both sides of the circle, it was about 100m range. The effect is exponential, so when the wingsan goes from the circle edge to the middle, it's about 400m away. You can be more precise by learning the wingspan of your potential opponents, then adjusting to the right formula once ID is made. Lots of German sights are 110 mls across, so make the appropriate adjustment.
After a while, the "feel" will develop and your recognition of the sweet spot will just happen. Practice is the key. Short bursts!
Hope that helps.
Cheers! See the written and video material above, great posts.
Strider1

Bearcat99
10-21-2007, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Its quite difficult to use, youll have to assign buttons to it! I think the buttons you have to assign are cofusingly the bombsite ones.

It works by selecting the type of enemy aircraft, then decreasing/increasing the reticle to fit the targets wingspan. The analogue computer takes this and a gyro to measure the rate of turn into account, to work out the amount of lead needed to hit the target.

Not difficult at all.... Just assign a key to > & < sight distance.. and adj sight L & R and toggle gunsight. Use this page @ M4T (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Knowledge_Base&cat=44). I dont bother with plane size etc.. I usually keep it on the 109 unless I am doing bombers... the fighters are all relatively close enough where if you shoot at a zero with the setting for the 109 it will work... The toggle has 3 settings and you can see thye knob move in the cockpit and the AC selector slide L & R.. when you > & < the ditance the diamond pattern on tyhe sight will change in size.

Freelancer-1
10-21-2007, 07:22 PM
Originally posted by mike_espo:

Yeah I do know the basics, but I was wondering if the gunsight recticle circle can calculate lead if you know the distance.....

Mike, the gunsight is good, nay excellent, for two things. Telling you where your bullets are going to go and (with practice) how far away your target is.

Deflection shooting, however, is something you need to do with the your brain.

My advice would be to record tracks of your attempts based on the above scenario (shooting unarmed fighters). Then play them back from the targets view at 1/4 speed, pausing often, to see where your bullets are going. Also if you ask there are plenty of us that will be happy to supply tracks for you to examine at your leisure.

The most important thing is practice. Like learning anything, once you start to get your eye in, it will be surprisingly easy to 'feel' how much you need to lead your target at any specific time.

Airmail109
10-21-2007, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Its quite difficult to use, youll have to assign buttons to it! I think the buttons you have to assign are cofusingly the bombsite ones.

It works by selecting the type of enemy aircraft, then decreasing/increasing the reticle to fit the targets wingspan. The analogue computer takes this and a gyro to measure the rate of turn into account, to work out the amount of lead needed to hit the target.

Not difficult at all.... Just assign a key to > & < sight distance.. and adj sight L & R and toggle gunsight. Use this page @ M4T (http://mission4today.com/index.php?name=Knowledge_Base&cat=44). I dont bother with plane size etc.. I usually keep it on the 109 unless I am doing bombers... the fighters are all relatively close enough where if you shoot at a zero with the setting for the 109 it will work... The toggle has 3 settings and you can see thye knob move in the cockpit and the AC selector slide L & R.. when you > & < the ditance the diamond pattern on tyhe sight will change in size. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just find it a pain to use Bearcat. My style is to come in real fast at a high closure rate, opening fire at 300-250m with short bursts, and depending how fast I'm closing keep on firing until I overshoot and dive away.

The computerized gunsight just waists my time and puts me off when making high speed closures.

My advice is once you've got the hang of gunnery not to use it because you want to try and become good at snapshots. You cant make snapshots easily with the gunsight when your constantly having to make adjustments for range.

Its a shame this game doesn't have an option to switch on a "moving target box" in front of the enemy fighter for training purposes. X-wing had this, and thats what taught me how to deflect shoot when I was 8.

Again a good beginners way of shooting is just to shoot well in front of the target and walk your rounds into it.

Also NERVES play a big part, you may be getting plenty of kills offline. But when you go online the giddyness factor kicks in for a short time, your just about to pzwnn another player. This will screw up your shooting. Once you become cool and calm during attacks your success will increase dramatically.

Low_Flyer_MkVb
10-21-2007, 07:39 PM
The most important thing is practice. Like learning anything, once you start to get your eye in, it will be surprisingly easy to 'feel' how much you need to lead your target at any specific time.

True. I look at it this way - it's a matter of getting the enemy 'plane to meet your bullets, not the other way around. Go and bully some biplanes in QMB - they're agile enough to present a challenge, yet slow enough to present a nice target while you get the hang of things.

mike_espo
10-21-2007, 07:40 PM
Thanks for all the replies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I remember old Mig Alley by Rowan I think, I remember the f-86 gunsight. I think that one had to adjust the target wingspan to fit the circle and then the piper would move or something to give deflection.

Worked pretty well, if I remember http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Jaws2002
10-21-2007, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lucius_Esox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't bother with learning the the mathematics of the gun sight.....shooting is a feeling that just clicks with practice

Couldn't agree more. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I couldn't agree less.... IMO while there is a great deal of instinct to gunnery.. the skill can be taught. In fact it was taught by the RAF, The USAAF and every other airforce. There are basic concepts that, if you know them you can hone those "feelings faster and develope the skills you need to survive like with anything else.

Darts video which is the one in the you tube link is an EXCELLENT tutorial on the subject... in fact Darts Page which can be found linked in the Essentials thread has several top notch tutorials that I highly recommend on skip bombing and gunnery as well as wingman pair tactics.

Sniper's Corner (http://ourworld.cs.com/Abra772/SC_2_Eng.zip) a nice utility to help get the angles aspect of A2A gunnery in your head, it is an Excell file.. - Gunnery at AW.C (http://www.airwarfare.com/tactics/tactics_fwgunnery.htm)-A good explanation of the tool and what is does. Also this entire section at AW.C is a really good resource.

Lastly this info - Lutwaffe Gunnery manual @ Air Fronts (http://ww2airfronts.org/Flight%20School/transition/weaponsschool/revishoot.html), US Gunsights @ Air Fronts (http://ww2airfronts.org/Flight%20School/transition/weaponsschool/n3_9basics.html) and RAF Gunnery (http://www.sharedelight.com/ed20075d37ac647e2519d7600e3e0fdb) is all good to help get the concepts down in your head.. then those "feelings" can take over. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It depends what you fly. I found the hurricane amazing in this respect, but if you fly FW-190 forget about it. You will have a hard time to shoot from dead six and all the deflections are blind.
You won't be able to use those nice charts in 190. Only experience will get you there.

10-22-2007, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by Low_Flyer_MkVb:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The most important thing is practice. Like learning anything, once you start to get your eye in, it will be surprisingly easy to 'feel' how much you need to lead your target at any specific time.

True. I look at it this way - it's a matter of getting the enemy 'plane to meet your bullets, not the other way around. Go and bully some biplanes in QMB - they're agile enough to present a challenge, yet slow enough to present a nice target while you get the hang of things. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The LCOS sights derived from the British Mk.2 were used until very recently in jets.

Those sights compensate for bullet drop in a vertical trajectory, but not for any lateral gravity drop. This means that when firing stright and level there is no problem for computing the trajectory, known the distance. On the other hand, the pilot must compensate manualy (mentally?) any gravity drop when the aircraft is in a turn or a bank.

K_Freddie
10-22-2007, 02:17 AM
Get in real close.. when deflecting, as the target dissapears below your cowling give it a quick blast, ease pitch pressure and let it float back into view - like yoyo'ing with it.

Cannot miss like this.. No! need for sights or calculations - it's a feeling that comes and goes.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Mehring1917
10-22-2007, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
My advice would be to record tracks of your attempts based on the above scenario (shooting unarmed fighters). Then play them back from the targets view Is there an automated way to play back tracks from the targets view? Trying to do this manually is yet another art to master.

Freelancer-1
10-22-2007, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by Mehring1917:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
My advice would be to record tracks of your attempts based on the above scenario (shooting unarmed fighters). Then play them back from the targets view Is there an automated way to play back tracks from the targets view? Trying to do this manually is yet another art to master. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not sure what you mean by automated, but you have two options. Ctrl+F2 and Shift+F2. One will scroll through the friendlies and one through the not-so-friendlies. I can't remember which is which right now.

It can be a pain, for sure, but you can pause and then scroll though to get to the plane of your choice then resume.

Insuber
10-22-2007, 07:24 AM
Originally posted by strider1:
Hey, Mike!
You're quite right----sights were designed to allow estimation of distance form how much the target fills the sight from wing to wing.
Most U.S. and British sights are 100 mls across, meaning the when an average fighter wingspan touched both sides of the circle, it was about 100m range. The effect is exponential, so when the wingsan goes from the circle edge to the middle, it's about 400m away. You can be more precise by learning the wingspan of your potential opponents, then adjusting to the right formula once ID is made. Lots of German sights are 110 mls across, so make the appropriate adjustment.
After a while, the "feel" will develop and your recognition of the sweet spot will just happen. Practice is the key. Short bursts!
Hope that helps.
Cheers! See the written and video material above, great posts.
Strider1

"The effect is exponential"

I think the effect is directly proportional to the distance: 1/4 span = 4 times the distance. For the rest you're right, practice is the key.

Regards,
Insuber

Insuber
10-22-2007, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Its a shame this game doesn't have an option to switch on a "moving target box" in front of the enemy fighter for training purposes. X-wing had this, and thats what taught me how to deflect shoot when I was 8.

Again a good beginners way of shooting is just to shoot well in front of the target and walk your rounds into it.

Also NERVES play a big part, you may be getting plenty of kills offline. But when you go online the giddyness factor kicks in for a short time, your just about to pzwnn another player. This will screw up your shooting. Once you become cool and calm during attacks your success will increase dramatically.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif Stay calm and your kill rate will increase! I remember my first online fights in 2001 on UBI servers, boys if I weare sweating!

BTW I've suggested the "moving target box" or predictive aim as an improvement for BOB. I remember too this nice training tool of X-Wing.

Regards,
Insuber

funkster319
10-22-2007, 09:18 AM
Anyone tried using the Gun sight predictor in BOB2:WOV?

It's an excellent tool to start to develop your deflection timings etc. Not to mention that the BOB2 AI gives you a good run for money.

If you have BOB2:WOV fire it up , alter your BDG.txt file to allow Predictor=ON. (Something like that).

I found after using this for a evening, I was amazed at how much I was actually underestimating "lead" on certain angles! After that deflection shots were a lot easier!

Ernst_Rohr
10-22-2007, 10:04 AM
The RAF gunnery manual that Bearcat posted basically says the same thing.

EVERYONE underestimates the amount of lead to use shooting deflection, particularly in high angle deflection shots.

I have found that the gradiated gun sights work very well if you bother to spend some time on them and learn the "trick" to using them to range targets. Once I figured out the whole mils and range concept, my gunner improved significantly.

Ideally, if you have everything setup right, when the wings touch the ring, your in the perfect zone to fire. If you have your convergence matching your sight, your in the perfect spot to whack the other guy.

If your convergence is set to 200m, then you want to shoot when the target only fills up half the gun sight. The easy way to range this is to put the pipper on one wing, and the outside of the ring on the other. When the wings touch the outside of the ring, and the pipper, then the target is at 200m, which is the same distance your convergence is set for.

It does take some getting used to, but if you play with it a bit, it gets pretty easy over time.

The trick I found that helps with deflection is to take the angle of the target and use a quick rule of thumb;

0 degrees= no deflection, just adjust for range
45 degrees= take what you think is deflection, then double it

What that means; if your target is level and at 90 degrees, DONT aim immediately in front of him, aim FOUR plane lengths in front of him. If he is 45 degrees, aim TWO plane lengths in front of him.

It sounds completely off, but it does work. The RAF gunnery manual says the same thing, but involves more math. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If your really want to work your gunner at range, take up a bird with a gradiated sight like the Zero or Corsair, then go turn on icons so you can see the range of the target plane. Then go make some passes at the target.

What you should be able to see is the target distance, when the wings touch the reticle circle, and most importantly WHEN your intstinct is telling you to pull the trigger.

Once you get the sight picture down, and your convergence to match the range in your sight picture, your going to see a huge jump in your gunnery.

Oh, and the other HUGE thing on gunnery! CENTER THE BALL! I am guilty of this all the time. Your sight picture and convergence can be perfect, but if your rudder is not centered, your going to miss all the time, because your shots are going to slew off.

MB_Avro_UK
10-22-2007, 02:33 PM
Hi all,

The deflection calculation also needs to take account of muzzle velocity.

For example, LW cannons need a different mental calculation to RAF cannons IMHO.

Best Regards,
MB_Avro.

Lurch1962
10-22-2007, 05:08 PM
Avro is right. A good example of the different ammo flight times are to be found on the low muzzle velocity cannon-equipped early kites, e.g., the Zero and Bf-109E. At any significant distance to a maneuvering target, the required lead for the MGs and cannons will differ quite considerably. Not to mention compensation for gravity drop at non-convergence distances.

-HH-Quazi
10-22-2007, 05:49 PM
And remember, g-forces are modeled & do affect rounds. So if you are in a tight turn & trying some deflection shooting you need to take that into consideration.

mike_espo
10-22-2007, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
And remember, g-forces are modeled & do affect rounds. So if you are in a tight turn & trying some deflection shooting you need to take that into consideration.

Yeah, it must be something....had another bad day today. Mostly play Zekes vs Wildcats and lost 2 A6M2 zeros and a ki-43... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif pilot killed once.

I did the <gunstat command on the server and found that I got only 5 measly hits out of 300+ rounds fired!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I su*k bigtime.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Mehring1917
10-23-2007, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by Freelancer-1:
...you have two options. Ctrl+F2 and Shift+F2. Ah... you have just made my learning so much easier. I'm not even going to try to describe what I've been doing. Thanks.