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Fighterduck
07-09-2006, 04:04 AM
so there is the story:

I play Il2 from a long time now: i always used bombers, because i found twin engines amazing, more seafty to fly and bombing was a thing a could make really well.Il2 made me a ww2 fan: i remember when i goes to airshow to watch for ww2 planes: they were beautifull! but there was a period when i loose this passion also because it became really difficult to find airshow where ww2 planes were present. After few years, i discovered il2 and i started plaing: i was amazed!Finally i could watch this beauty and i had the chance to pilot them in combat. I started collect all can i find about ww2 and ww2 planes and reading lots of book about those planes. I learned pros and cons af the planes, tactics to use, for which kind of missions they were made for and i was surprising to see that you colud actually use real life tactics in this sim. So i started using b-25 tactics during online play and offline and it worked!..after hoursand hours of bombing i decided to finally use fighter...and a whole new world appear to me.Dog fight is a really hard work...like bombing heavelly defended airbase and return home alive. I tried pretty all fighters, from bf , zeros, Fw, Spit to the russians mig and Yak. I found that for me the russian planes where the most easy to fly and they were really performing. But if i have to be honest, i still have a lot to learn about dog fight: but a thing i learned is that i dont have to be hasty: i have to take my time and find a good moment to start to fight. The first time i used fighters, when i saw some planes i just pushed the throttle and jump into te fight...result...i always been shooted down. So i decided to read some books and see which kind of tactics real pilots used in combat. And last week i read some things about a plane that i never ever considered a fighter or a possible plane to use for this task: the BF 110.
I always read a lot of thing about this plane, but i dont know whay i never considered it like a fighter ( heay fighter ): for me twin engine arent fighter, they are heay, and less manouvrable. thing that during BoB caused the decline of the 110 in the role of fighter. But i finally decided to try it online. Looking that the 110 hasnt the manouvrability of normal single engine fighters i decided to use a "relaxing" way to fight, climb at least at 2000m and wait for a good occasion without having haste: i loaded my 110 with 75% of fuel and optional two more 20mm cannons and i took of. At 500m over my base a saw some Ju88 and i decided to escort them. We flew until we reached the ennemy base and ju88 started to bomb. I was fliyng at 2400m. and then i saw a spit attacking a ju88: i pushed my joystick forward to reach the spit that continued to fire on the 88. i was 550km/h when i reached the tail of the spit: pushed on the fire button and: boooooooom! the spit explosed!...i saved a ju88.and made me really proud of my 110 and of me looking that i generally need lot of games before sooting down a plane. then the ennemy flak touched me and my left engine gone. so i became a easy target for the others.
I restarted: i was courious to see i it was only luck, or the 110 was really capable to fight against fighters. Same thing, but this time i didnt escort anyone: i climbed to 2600m and waiting for an occasion: there is one! some planes were dog fighing at low altitude...so i choosed the one who was attacking a team mate and i started to dive..same script...he didnt see me, i pushed the fire button, and my 20mm cannons made the rest. And then, a spit came behind me...it was the occasion to see if the 110 was capable to disengage from enemy fighters: and here, one of the pro point of the 110 came in my help...the tail gunner! With a tail gunner, the ennemy fighter have to be quick to shoot at you and he dont have all the time fo find a good fire position: all depends how you are fliyng the 110. But it is sufficient to make some left and right closed turns and dont stay in stable flight to make the spit behind you an hard life. So finally i reached my base without damages. Result of the online session: three games, three victories! and for me three planes shooted down in three games and loosing only one time my 110 ( cause the flack ) is a good result.
So the bf110 could really used like fighter. Sure, not a pure dogfighter, but if used in the good way it become really dangerous: fast, with a tail gunner and a perfect stable fire platform with an enormous volume of fire. I know that it has lot of cons, but at least, with the good tactic, the 110 can be a good fighter..the book had reason.


cheers Fighterduck

JG53Frankyboy
07-09-2006, 04:53 AM
lucky man !
because normaly you are dead in a Bf110G-2 if you meet a smart pilot flying a single engine fighter/P-38 online.

btw, i doubt you will ever need more than 50% fuel online.

WWSensei
07-09-2006, 05:10 AM
Used to fly the 110 on Warclouds almost exclusively. Was proud of being able to hold a greater than 1-1 kill ratio in that thing.

She's a tough bird with lots of fire power and I stopped flying it when people quit bothering to shoot at me and just rammed me.

SeaFireLIV
07-09-2006, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by Fighterduck:
I know that it has lot of cons, but at least, with the good tactic, the 110 can be a good fighter..the book had reason.




Or perhaps, Oleg has made a sim that actually corresponds to the real life aircraft in that you can actually follow some of the techniques done in the real thing.

joeap
07-09-2006, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fighterduck:
I know that it has lot of cons, but at least, with the good tactic, the 110 can be a good fighter..the book had reason.




Or perhaps, Oleg has made a sim that actually corresponds to the real life aircraft in that you can actually follow some of the techniques done in the real thing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You can't say that Seafire!! Don't you know Oleg deliberately porked planes? I am not sure which side since both blue and red say that...but he did. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fighterduck
07-09-2006, 06:46 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
lucky man !
because normaly you are dead in a Bf110G-2 if you meet a smart pilot flying a single engine fighter/P-38 online.

btw, i doubt you will ever need more than 50% fuel online.

probably...but still i be eable to make 3 kill: thing i never done with a normal fighter. How i said the only thing you cant do is jump directly into a dog fight. I have to keep altitude and wait for a good occasion to dive into an ennemy that isnt paing attenction to you. Sure, it's also a question o luck...but luck its a component of all dog fight.
Sincerely, i was really suprised of this plane.

leitmotiv
07-09-2006, 07:09 AM
The only thing good I found in Shockwave's BATTLE OF BRITAIN II was the flyable 110C (like everything with this production, with a caveat: you are completely unable to look behind you---destroying one of the few advantages of the early 110s without pilot's back armor---maybe this has finally been fixed). In BOB II, you could be Hans Jabs and attack single seaters if you had an altitude advantage, and immediately climb back up to your perch. I am crazy about the 110C. Anybody who disparages the humble 110 ought to know Jabs (who racked-up presentable single-engine kills in a 110 in the B of Brit) was able to knock down some late-war Spitfires while flying a hulking 110 night fighter.

VW-IceFire
07-09-2006, 07:37 AM
Fighterduck, you've discovered what is popularly known as the boom and zoom. You've seemingly got the boom down quite well and you'll be fine tuning your zoom for the next little while. The boom is as you describe diving in on the enemy unsuspecting and the zoom is leveling off, flying away with speed and regaining your original altitude to position for attack.

The 110 does this fairly well because of its massive firepower and its good dive acceleration. The FW190 and other types also utilize this style of attack...unable to go round and round in circles like the dogfighters. Even flying a Spitfire I prefer the BNZ approach.

Fighterduck
07-09-2006, 09:55 AM
I tried boom and zoom tactic with the fw ( i discovered this tactic were created on the russian front because of the yak-3 that was really dangerous to engage in dogfight. German pilots recived an order to avoid engagements with yak-3, so they used boom and zoom. )
I found this tactic the only one possible with a 110, and i think it work really well. Also when you are escorting bombers is a good way to protect them. By the way, i found escorting a really gratifaing job: you are tring to protect team mates...and when you save them...you will be really proud of yourself because you them.

JG53Frankyboy
07-09-2006, 04:15 PM
but you have to watch carefully your speed, because the Bf110G-2 has a very low max dive speed - little over 700km/h IAS as far as i remember................

anyway, if you can bounce the enemy, the Bf110 is than very lethal because of its armament , true.

Fighterduck
07-10-2006, 04:05 AM
actually i never go over 600km/h. i dive from 2600-3000m and its never a vertical dive...but i will pay attenctio next time thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Flying_Nutcase
07-10-2006, 04:55 AM
Fighterduck,

I don't usually make through a big block of text like that, but the spirit of your story held my attention. A nice read. Your enthusiasm carries through. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Fighterduck
07-10-2006, 07:00 AM
Thanky you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Fighterduck
07-10-2006, 07:27 AM
you know: the firts time i played this sim i just jumped into a plane and filght around. I made lots of instant combat to try all the differents planes: i was courious to see the different effect of the weaponery. I just used the same "tactics" for all the planes. But the first times i didnt really used teactics..because i didnt know any of it.
So the sim approached me to the ww2 planes world and i started collecting all the information i could. And since them i flight this sim in a totally different point of view. I try to use the plane the best i can, using the right tactics or tring to use it: and, also if oleg porked some planes, it nice to see that you can in fact apply those tactics and make this sim more challenging and immersive...but pehaps its only me.

JG52Karaya-X
07-10-2006, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by WWSensei:
She's a tough bird with lots of fire power and I stopped flying it when people quit bothering to shoot at me and just rammed me.

Yep, that's a common thing among dogfight-server pilots nowadays. As soon as they see a bomber or other twin-engine job they all concentrate on it (prolly because they see it as an easy target and free points). Everbody wants to score, everybody wants to kill and in the end some silly guy rams you because he got so trigger-happy he didn't watch his distance. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

What a bunch of aces http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

JG52Karaya-X
07-10-2006, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by joeap:
You can't say that Seafire!! Don't you know Oleg deliberately porked planes? I am not sure which side since both blue and red say that...but he did. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Paranoia for teh win! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif